PRO AND CON INDEX
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Pro and Con 1848, posted 3-8-15
Pro and Con 1849, posted 3-28-15
Pro and Con 1850, posted 3-29-15
INCOMING EMAIL, RE: THE UNITED STATES IS REFERRED TO IN THE 'PROPHECY OF DANIEL'
" ...yet he (anti-Christ) shall come to his end , and NO ONE will help him."
The anti-Christ will come into control of Israel as the result of the fulfillment of Daniel 11:21 , and remain in control of Israel until the fulfillment of Daniel 11:45 which is God's Gog-Magog War in Israel. The "NO ONE" referred to in Daniel 11:45 is the United States who will NOT come to the aid of Israel during God's Gog-Magog War which is God's great tribulation upon the land and people of Israel according to :
"For these are the DAYS OF ( God's ) VENGEANCE....for there will be GREAT DISTRESS (TRIBULATION) in the LAND and WRATH UPON THIS PEOPLE (Israel).....and JERUSALEM WILL BE TRAMPLED by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. "
The "NO ONE" who will NOT help Israel during God's Gog-Magog War upon Israel is the United States. Like it or not, the President we have is exactly who God wants to be President during His wrath of great tribulation upon Israel. It is His plan !
This United Nation is specific. It is talking about the United States.
1Ch_17:21 says, “And what one (echad, united) nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people, whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?”
2Sa_7:23 says, “And what one (echad, united) nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?”
“NO ONE” in Daniel 11:45 and Luke 21:22-24 is not specific. It includes the whole world. Agape
MY REPLY TO AN EMAIL
> > Can you point me to any scripture that says God is in charge of all things here on earth? I believe He does control the Universe, but I also think that He handed control of the earth to Adam and Eve, and let them hand full control over it to Satan.
There are several scriptures that show God is in charge, both in Heaven and on Earth.
Dan 4:35 says that the Lord "doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"
Mat 28:18-20 says, "Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."
1Ch 29:11,12 says, "Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all".
Satan was not given full control, but he is allowed to work "in the children of disobedience". He can only operate within the boundaries the Lord has set forth.
2Ti 2:26 says, "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
NEITHER SATAN NOR HIS FALLEN ANGELS CAN INHABIT BELIEVERS
Col 1:27 says, "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory".
Col 1:13 says, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son".
1Jn 5:18 says, "he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."
The False Prophet will not be a true believer. He will be left behind at the time of both Raptures, at MId-Trib and on the Day of God's Wrath.
THE LORD "REIGNEST OVER ALL"
1Ch 29:11,12 (KJV) says, "Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all. 12 Both riches and honour come of thee, and THOU REIGNEST OVER ALL".
Eph 2:2 says, "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".
Joh 12:31 says, "Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out."
2Co_4:4 says, "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
"THE MOST HIGH RULETH IN THE KINGDOM OF MEN"
Psa 22:28 says, "the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations."
Psa 103:19 says, "The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
Dan 4:17 says, "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
Dan 4:25 says, "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will."
Dan 4:32 says, "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will."
Dan 4:35 says, "he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"
Dan 5:21 says, "the most high God ruled in the kingdom of men, and that he appointeth over it whomsoever he will.
Eph 1:11 says, "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will".
ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN PUT UNDER THE FEET OF JESUS
Eph 1:19-23 says, "And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, 21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Pro 16:33 says, "The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
ADAM WAS TO REPLENISH THE EARTH AND HAVE DOMINION OVER EVERY LIVING THING
Gen 1:26 says, "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
Gen 1:28 says, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish (i.e., make full again) the earth (i.e., after the angelic settlements had been destroyed), and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Gen_2:5 says, "And every plant of the field before (terem, interrupted, suspended, i.e., the field the angels had used previously) it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground."
Dan 4:35 says, "And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"
Psa 22:28 says, "the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations."
Psa 37:23 says, "The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD".
Pro 16:9 says, "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps."
Pro 19:21 says, "There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand."
Isa 14:24 says, "The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand".
FOR US, NOT EVERYTHING IS GOOD, BUT EVERYTHING WORKS TOGETHER FOR GOOD
Rom_8:28 says, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Agape
MY BEST GUESS FOR THE FIRST-TRUMP
RAPTURE IS THURSDAY, APRIL 2, 2015
By Marilyn Agee, Posted 11-29-14
Why April 2? my husband Ed died Dec. 27, 2011, but he came to see me in his celestial body on the following April 2nd. Just maybe April 2 is a clue to when I will see him again. April 2 may be the day of the Rapture.
I went to the Hebrew Date Converter and looked up the Hebrew date for April 2, 2015.
It will be Thursday, Nisan 13, 5775, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on Thursday, Nisan 13, April 6, 30 AD. I thought, so that's why I worked so hard to be sure of the date of the Crucifixion, and why our son David was born on April 6.
Ed came to see me on April 2, 2012 (1260 days before the Feast of Trumpets, 9-14-15). His birthday is March 29 (which will be Palm Sunday this year), but he didn't come on that day, and he did not comment when I said that I might be with him on the following Ascension Day. Therefore, just maybe he meant to show me that we would be together on April 2.
I was astonished when I found out that next April 2 will be on the anniversary of the Crucifixion. That seems so significant. (April 2, 2012 was exactly 1260 days before the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015 too.) Crucifixion Day was the first day our trip to Heaven became possible. Jesus took the Old Testament saints to Heaven three days later. We are the next group to be caught up.
Joshua (Jesus in Hebrew) led Israel across the Jordan dry shod on Nisan 10. They gathered in Gilgal (rolling, wheel). Then Joshua circumcised all the men. They did not start to take possession of more of the Promised Land until Nisan 13, the eve of Passover.
Maybe the dead in Christ will get their resurrection bodies on Nisan 10, when the passover lambs were chosen, and the Rapture take place on Nisan 13.
Jericho fell after the Israelites marched around it seven times. Heb_11:30 says, "By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days."
The 7 circles around Jericho (meaning a fragrant place) may be a clue to where Heaven is located. According the Josephus, a Pharisee Priest, the seven lamps on the lampstand stood for (1) Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus,(4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter and (7) Saturn.
Saturn, with its 7 rings is where the throne of Jesus is located.
Eze 1:1 says, "...as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God."
Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (i.e., expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (the sapphire, Jesus' September birth stone, means heaven and dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit, sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (i.e., the only God/man is Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is the only amber planet), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness (i.e., bright rings, like a rainbow) round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD." Heaven has a halo.
Four robotic spacecrafts have visited Saturn. They are Pioneer 11, Voyager 1, Voyager 2, and Cassini.
After 7 years of flying, Cassini finally arrived at Saturn in July, 2004. The views we have received of Saturn are breathtaking, much more than I expected, especially when Cassini was behind Saturn. Cassini dropped the Huygens probe on Saturn's moon Titan too. That information is amazing.
There are actually over 60 ringlets, but viewed from Earth, there seem to be seven.
The rings are actually 240,000 miles across. That is about the distance from Earth to the Moon. Some are 330 ft. thick. Ice chunks are sometimes a large as a bus.
This URL has some wonderful pictures, even Saturn in infrared.
My favorite picture is of Enceladus, the moon of Saturn that supplies the water for the ice chunks in Saturn's ring system.
The orbit of Enceladus is vertical to Saturn's ring. Besides furnishing ice for the rings of Saturn, Enceladus causes Saturn's northern lights. "The footprint, newly discovered by Cassini, marks the presence of an electrical circuit that connects Saturn with Enceladus and accelerates electrons and ions along the magnetic field lines." It is like a fairyland out there. We have so much to look forward to. We are going to be amazed.
There are about 101 salt-water geysers on Enceladus. The hot spots are called the signature of the geysering process.
"Thanks to recent analysis of Cassini gravity data, the researchers concluded the only plausible source of the material forming the geysers is the sea now known to exist beneath the ice shell. They also found that narrow pathways through the ice shell can remain open from the sea all the way to the surface, if filled with liquid water."
The Lord went to a lot of trouble to create Saturn's gorgeous ring system.
Mat 24:20-22 says, "But pray ye that your flight (phuge, escape, flight) be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then (tote, at that time, i.e., Mid-Trib) shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
Mar 13:14-20 says, "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (i.e., probably on the Temple Mount), (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! (i.e., the children will be caught up in the Rapture) 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."
Nisan 13, 2015 is on a Thursday in the spring. It is not on the Sabbath or in the winter. It is on the anniversary of the Crucifixion on Thursday, Nisan 13, 30 AD. I have high hopes now for a Rapture date of April 2, 2015.
Jesus will come as the latter rain. The former rain is in Tishri. Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24 and born Tishri 1.
The latter rain is in Nisan. That fits too. I expect the Second Advent to be on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jubilee Year, Sat. April 9, 2016, the anniversary of the Resurrection on Sunday, April 9, 30 BC.
At the time of the Rapture, Ed will get his resurrection body first. Then maybe he will come get me, and we will both be caught up together to meet Jesus in the air. Beyond that, I can only imagine. He had already visited with my family and his family, so I am looking forward to seeing them all.
I NOW BELIEVE IN THE MID-TRIB RAPTURE
By Marilyn Agee, Posted 8-4-14
MY REPLY TO A POST ON FIVE DOVES,
I have been enjoying your posts. As they say, "Iron sharpens iron." I can learn from you and hopefully, you can learn something from me. We have both studied lots. Let's put our heads together.
Pastor Bob(27 July 2014)
"Absence of Proof is Not Proof of Absence"
WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO PROVE: A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
> > the Bible offers us many sound reasons showing why the Rapture is prior to the Tribulation.
(WHICH I BELIEVED IN UNTIL LATELY
WHAT I AM TRYING TO PROVE: TWO RAPTURES, ONE MID-TRIB ON THE DAY OF CHRIST, THE OTHER AT THE END OF THE TRIBULATION, ON THE DAY OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH
You probably never noticed the following before. It is hidden pretty good. It sure took me a long time to figure out what it meant.
REV. 1:9 IS THE PREVIEW OF THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, WHICH IS "IN TRIBULATION"
Rev 1:9-11 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion "IN TRIBULATION", and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (i.e., the first Rapture, as in Rev. 4:1, the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last"...
Note: I now understand exactly what becoming "in the Spirit" means. Ed (my husband that died Dec. 27, 2011) came to see me in his Celestial Body on the following April 2. He was "in the Spirit." Everything seemed normal except he didn't touch me and walked through the wall after answering my questions.
THE SCENE IN HEAVEN
Rev 1:12-18 says, "And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks (i.e., the First-Trump Rapture just took place, John, one of the elders, is in Heaven, so are the elect of all seven church groups; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, (i.e., Jesus) clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle (indicating deity). 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first (i.e., LORD of the Old Testament) and the last (i.e., Lord of the New Testament): 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."
Rev_2:10 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."
Rev 4:1 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER".
Rev 10:11 says, "And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."
Therefore, the "RISE" in Rev. 11:1 is the same as the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev. 4:1. That is the First-Trump Rapture. It takes place Mid-Trib. Following it, the two witnesses prophesy 1260 days. Then they are killed, resurrected and hear "COME UP HITHER" in Rev. 11:12. That is the Last-Trump Rapture.
THE TWO RAPTURES BRACKET THE GREAT TRIBULATION
1Co 15:20-24 says, "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits (i.e.,those raised at the first Rapture); afterward they that are Christ's at his coming (i.e., those raised at the second Rapture). 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."
FIRST RAPTURE: MID-TRIB, DAY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST
1Co 1:8 says, "Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
1Co 5:5 says, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
2Co_1:14 says, "As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus."
Php_1:10 says, "That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ".
Php_2:16 says, "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
The First-Trump Rapture is in I Thess. 4:13-18. The Last-Trump Rapture is in I Cor. 15:51-54. The first is Mid-Trib. The last is on the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH.
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
Rev 7:9-14 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."
SECOND RAPTURE: DAY OF THE LORD, DAY OF DESTRUCTION, THE "LAST DAY"
Joh 6:44 says, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
Act_2:20 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come".
1Th_5:2 says, "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."
2Pe 3:5-7 says, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
2Pe_3:10 says, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
2Pe 3:12 says, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
Isa_2:12 says, "For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:"
Isa_13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty."
Isa_13:9 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."
Isa_34:8 says, "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion."
Jer_46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates."
Lam_2:22 says, "Thou hast called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed."
Eze_13:5 says, "Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD."
Eze_30:3 says, "For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen."
Joe_1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."
Joe_2:1 says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand".
Joe_2:11 says, "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?".
Joe_2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."
Joe_3:14 says, "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision."
Amo_5:18 says, "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."
Amo_5:20 says, "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?"
Oba_1:15 says, "For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head."
Zep_1:7,8 says, "Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. 8 And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel."
Zep_1:14 says, "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly."
Zep_1:18 says, "Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD'S wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land."
Zep_2:2 says, "Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you."
Zep_2:3,4 says, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (sathar, be absent, i.e., raptured) in the day of the LORD'S anger. 4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up."
Zec_14:1 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee."
Mal_4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD".
2Pe_3:12 says, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
Rev_16:14 says, "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."
The first Total Lunar Eclipse of the last tetrad for 500 years was April 15, 2014. Mid-Trib may not be far away. I was thinking maybe this next Feast of Trumpets could be the Rapture, but ye shall have Tribulation ten days might make the Day of Atonement look good.
ELIJAH WILL ASCEND IN THE FINAL RAPTURE ON THE DAY OF THE LORD
Rev 11:11-13 says, " And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."
I USED TO BELIEVE IN A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
From the 1960s to recently, I too thought the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:13-18 would be Pre-Trib. I read books out of the Seminary Collection at BIOLA for 7 years, so you know what I thought about the Rapture in those days.
When I got a computer, I found Dr. Thomas Ice's Pre-Trib Research Center. I agreed with what he said about the Pre-Trib Rapture. He too came out of Dallas Theological Seminary, as did others that teach the Pre-Trib Rapture. I went to hear R.B. Thieme preach. I borrowed tapes from Berachah Church and from my own church at the time, Rolling Hills Covenant, when Chuck Swindoll was pastor. I wanted to learn as much as possible about the Bible and the upcoming Rapture.
I read what Thomas Ice said about Ephraem the Syrian (who lived from A.D. 306 to 373). Ephraem said that the saints "are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord", but was Ephraem right? What if it is prior to the Great Tribulation. That word "Great" makes 3.5 years difference.
I now think that the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:13-18 could take place 10 days into the Great Tribulation, which is the latter half of the 7-yr. Tribulation.
THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE (WE CAN'T HAVE A LAST TRUMP UNLESS WE HAVE A FIRST TRUMP)
1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE
1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Rev. 6:17 and 7:9-15 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" 9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God. 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God".
In Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter 29.1, Irenaus said, "And therefore, when in the end (i.e., Mid-Trib) the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, There shall be (i.e., after the Rapture) tribulation such as has not been since the beginning (i.e., the Great Tribulation), neither shall be. Matthew 24:21 For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption" (i.e., after the Great Tribulation).
There are "righteous" Philadelphians in the first 3.5 years of the Tribulation. There are "righteous" Laodiceans in the Great Tribulation, the last 3.5 years. They have washed their robes in the blood of Christ and made them white.
Those wearing white at Mid-Trib will be caught up near Mid-Trib. Those who wash their robes in the blood of Christ after that will be caught up on the Great Day of God's Wrath.
Rev 6:12 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood".
Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev 7:9-15 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 says, "Therefore are they before the throne of God".
These are in Heaven before the 7th seal is broken.
Joh 6:39 says, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
Joh 6:44 says, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Rev 8:1,2 says, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."
Rev 10:11 says, "Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."
Therefore, the "Rise" in Rev 11:1 is the same as the "Come up hither" of Rev. 4:1.
This Rapture is when God's two witnesses, Moses and Elijah, arrive on earth. At the end of the 42 months of the Great Tribulation, Moses and Elijah will be killed. After 3.5 more days, they will be resurrected and ascend to Heaven when the Lord says, "Come up hither" in verse 12. That is the second Rapture.
The "same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell." That does not happen at the first Rapture.
Act 2:19-21 says, "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
THOSE "CAUGHT UP UNTO GOD" MID-TRIB WILL NOT HAVE TO FLEE TO PETRA
Rev 12:1-10 says, "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (i.e., Virgo) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet (i.e., the Moon will be under her feet Sept. 27, 2014), and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth (i.e., the fallen angels are cast out of Heaven Mid-Trib): and the dragon stood before the woman (i.e., Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place (i.e., Petra) prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverance, i.e., the First-Trump Rapture), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."
WE MUST BE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL
Rev 17:11-14 says, "And the beast (i.e., Satan) that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition (i.e., he goes into the False Prophet, the second son of perdition, Judas Iscariot was the first). 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet). 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM (i.e., the Philadelphians) ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."
Mat 22:12-14 says, "And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. (i.e., like the Laodicean, he thought he had it made)13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14 For MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN."
Luk 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion (i.e., the Great Tribulation) with the unbelievers."
Mat 24:51 says, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
I am not the only one that can see the Mid-Trib Rapture.
"THE BIBLICAL CASE FOR MID-TRIBULATIONALISM"
by Steve W. Lemke, faculty, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
"This synoptic account of the signs and events of the end provides the most direct scriptural warrant for the mid-tribulational view.
"On the basis of the scriptural texts in the chart below, it seems evident that Revelation 14 is the appropriate scriptural locus for the return of Christ for believers.
(My thoughts: I think Rev 14:1-5 is talking about the second Rapture, the one on the Day of the Lord. After the Mid-Trib Rapture, all the saints get to sing the new song. Rev. 5:8-10 says, "...saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.)
"Only mid-tribulationalism adequately takes into account the sharp division in time emphasized in all the major eschatological passages. Only mid-tribulationalism can provide a synoptic account which follows the chronological pattern in Scripture for all the signs of the end and events of the end prophesied in the major eschatological passages. On the basis of this argument, it seems the proper interpretation of Scripture that there will be a mid-tribulational rapture of believers.
"Even so, come Lord Jesus!
"THE SCRIPTURAL BASIS FOR THE MID-TRIBULATIONAL ACCOUNT EVENT OF THE ESCHATON IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION IN THE ESCHATOLOGICAL DISCOURSE AND OTHER NEW TESTAMENT PASSAGES IN THE OLD TESTAMENT
"The throne, the scroll, and the Lamb Revelation 4-5 The Signs of the End begin: The First Seal --the white horse of conquest Revelation 6:1-2 Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:7, Luke 21:9 The Second Seal --the red horse of war Revelation 6:3-4 Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:8,Luke 21:10 The Third Seal --the black horse of famine Revelation 6:5-6 Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:8,Luke 21:11 The Fourth Seal --the pale horse of death Revelation 6:7-8 Matthew 24:7, Mark 13:8,Luke 21:11 The Fifth Seal – persecution Revelation 6:9-11 Matthew 24:9-14, Mark 13:9-13,Luke 21:12-19 The Sixth Seal --earthquake, moon turns red, stars fall,sky rolls as a scroll,people run for the mountains Revelation 6:12-17 Matthew 24:15-29, Mark 13:14-25 Luke 21:29-28 Joel 2:10, 3:15-16; 3:30-31;Zechariah 1:14-18 Interlude -- the sealing of the 144,000 Revelation 7:1-17 The Seventh Seal -- the seven trumpets Revelation 8:1-9:211 Corinthians 15:51, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Exodus 7-10 Interlude -- the angel, the little scroll, and the two witnesses Revelation 10:1-11:141 Thessalonians 4:16 The Seventh Trumpet -- the 24 elders sing Revelation 11:15-191 Thessalonians 4:16 Michael the archangel defeats the dragon Revelation 12:1-17 1 Thessalonians 4:16 Daniel 12:1-2 The beast enacts the abomination of desolation for 24 months Revelation 13:1-18 Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Daniel 7:25, 9:27;11:31; 12:11 The Events of the End begin:The Mid-Tribulation Rapture Revelation 14:1-16 Matthew 24:30-31, Mark 13:26-27,1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Daniel 7:13-14 The Seven Bowls of Wrath --God's wrath poured out on unbelievers Revelation 14:17-18:24 Exodus 7-10 The Second Coming,Final Judgment, and Eternity Revelation 19:1-22:21 Amos 9:13-15,Micah 4:1-8"
> > 6. It is written, "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads, for your redemption draweth nigh." -(Luke 21:28). In Luke 21, events of the Tribulation are described. Verse 28 shows that when these things begin to happen, after Israel's rebirth, then we are to know that the Rapture is about to take place. Note, it did not say, when they "have" happened, but when they "begin" to happen. They begin to happen as birth pangs of a woman about to give birth to a baby. Again, if a person was going to go through the Tribulation, the wording of this verse would be inaccurate.
Luk 21:20-28 says,"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then (tote, at that time, Mid-Trib) let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance (i.e., the Great Tribulation), that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23-28 says, "But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. 25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken (i.e., at Mid-Trib and during the Great Tribulation). 27 And then (tote, at that time) shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things BEGIN to come to pass (i.e., at Mid-Trib), then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."
Maybe "these things" begin Mid-Trib and end on the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the Great Tribulation.
2 Th 2:3 (HNV) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE COMES FIRST, AND THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, THE SON OF DESTRUCTION".
We may not know for sure who the False Prophet will be. He will be revealed because he won't be caught up in the First-Trump Rapture.
May the Lord bless you richly, Agape
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