Pro and Con 1325
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Pro and Con 1325
Posted 3-21-07
ANOTHER SIGN: "NEW COMET LOVEJOY"
http://spaceweather.com/index.cgi
On March 15th, Terry Lovejoy of Thornlands, Australia, discovered a new comet (C/2007 E2) in the southern constellation Indus.
My reply to a post on Five Doves site
>
Re: hhamlet (7 March 2007) "2 Thes 2:1-5"
I totally agree with you. To me, the Greek "he apostasia" definitely means the departing, or departure, which is the Rapture. Below is my reasoning on the subject. If you have anything to add, please let me know.
This is not a new idea. We know it was understood by Jerome about 400 AD, because he used the Latin word “discessio”, meaning “departure” to translate “apostasia” in the Vulgate. The Latin "discessio" comes down to us in English as decease. If we die, we depart, but even better than that, if a believer dies, he departs to Heaven. That pictures the Rapture departure to Heaven nicely.
The early English translations had either "departing" or "departure" too: the Wycliffe Bible (1384), the Tyndale Bible (1526), the Coverdale Bible (1535), the Cranmer Bible (1539), the Breeches Bible (1576), the Beza Bible (1583), and the Geneva Bible (1608).
Understanding that apostasia means departure is not totally lost today, either.
The WEB says, "it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction".
The HNV says, "it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction".
Here is what the Geneva Bible of 1608 says, "Nowe we beseech you, brethren, by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ, and by OUR ASSEMBLING VNTO HIM, That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though the DAY OF CHRIST were at hand. Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTING first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition".
The Geneva Bible got "departing" right, but missed on the "day of Christ." Since the Day of Christ is the Pre-Trib Rapture, we won't have a Rapture before that. It was the Day of the Lord that the Thessalonians were worried about.
The King James translaters missed on both counts. It says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the DAY OF CHRIST is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".
Today, we have some major manuscripts found after the King James Version was made to straighten this out. These MSS have "the day of the Lord".
Constantine Tischendorf gave us some good information on this in his Introduction to the Tischendorf New Testament. He said, "The Authorised Version, like Luther's, was made from a Greek text which Erasmus in 1516, and Robert Stephens in 1550, had formed from manuscripts of later date than the tenth century....Since the sixteenth century Greek manuscripts have been discovered of far greater antiquity than those of Erasmus and Stephens; as well as others in Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Gothic, into which languages the sacred text was translated between the second and fourth centuries..."
The Day of the Lord is also the Day of God's Wrath and takes place at the end of the shortened Tribulation. That day is the first day of Christ's millennial reign too. It is 7 months before the Second Coming of Christ (Eze. 39:12,13).
Jesus will be crowned in Heaven on the Day of the Lord. On the same day, there will be the second Rapture, called the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ. The last part of Rev. 11 tells about that day.
Rev. 11:15-19 says, "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and HE SHALL REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders (i.e., the 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture) which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on the Day of the Lord), and wast (at the Crucifixion), and art to come (at the Second Advent 7 months future; Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give reward unto they servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
Some of today's versions have "the day of the Lord:"
(ASV) "to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that THE DAY OF THE LORD is just at hand".
(Darby) "that ye be not soon shaken in mind, nor troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as if it were by us, as that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present."
(DRB) "That you be not easily moved from your sense nor be terrified, neither by spirit nor by word nor by epistle. as sent from us, as if THE DAY OF THE LORD were at hand."
(ISV) "not to be so quickly upset or alarmed when someone claims that we said either by some spirit, conversation, or letter that THE DAY OF THE LORD has already come."
In "The Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3," by Dr. Thomas Ice
(http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=165), under the heading "The Meaning of Apostasia" he said, "The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, "that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses." The word is a Greek compound of apo " from" and istemi "stand." Thus, it has the core meaning of "away from" or "DEPARTURE." The LIDDELL AND SCOTT GREEK LEXICON defines apostasia first as "defection, revolt;" then secondly as "DEPARTURE, DISAPPEARANCE." Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:
The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its Biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8;13; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb 3:12). The word is used for departing from iniquity (2 Tim. 2:19), from ungodly men (1 Tim. 6:5), from the temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2 Cor. 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13).
"It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages," concludes Daniel Davey, "that the word meaning of APOSTASIA IS DEFINED AS DEPARTURE".
Below are the verses he mentioned where the verb form is defined as departure.
2Ti 2:19 says, "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ DEPART from iniquity."
1Ti 6:5 says, "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such WITHDRAW thyself."
2Co 12:8 says, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might DEPART from me."
Act 12:10 says, "When they were past the first and the second ward, they came unto the iron gate that leadeth unto the city; which opened to them of his own accord: and they went out, and passed on through one street; and forthwith the angel DEPARTED from him."
Luke 4:13 says, "And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he DEPARTED from him for a season." Agape
Incoming e-mail, Re: Questions
I believe I read somewhere on your website that the latter rain is understood to be Nisan 1 on the Hebrew calendar, and that this is typically marked as such. I haven't seen this on the few Hebrew calendars I've seen, nor is it on hebcal.com. Can you elaborate on this?
Also, where does it say that the regnal year is always Nisan 1 for Israeli kings? Thanks
My reply
My Hebrew Calendar pages do not have the former and latter rain marked. However, in Unger's Bible Dictionary, By Merrill F. Unger, 1969, On the Jewish Calendar table on page 163f, he listed Former Rain opposite Ethanim/Tishri 1 and the Latter Rain opposite Aviv/Nisan 1. Tishri 1 brings the hope of sprinkling rain to soften the ground enough for planting, which must be done as soon as possible. Nisan 1 is the start of the last month that they can get heavy rain. After Nisan is over, there is no rain until the sprinkling rains of Tishri come again.
> > where does it say that the regnal year is always Nisan 1 for Israeli kings?
I have known about the Jewish Regnal Year so long that I have forgotten where I found it first, probably in the BIOLA library. I spent 7 years reading scads of books from there. I read just about every book I could find on the Hebrew Calendar.
"The Mishnah, a compilation of rabbinic discussions that was codified around 200 CE, lists a grand total of four new years in each Jewish year (Tractate Rosh Hashana 1:1). THE FIRST IS THE NEW YEAR OF KINGS AT THE BEGINNING OF NISAN. It was as of this date that the regnal years of Jewish rulers were to be reckoned."
(http://www.jewishknoxville.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=186176)
The following artical is interesting. To keep us from getting mixed up, Guy Cramer made a Chronology Table to go along with the text. That helps a lot.
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Confirming The Exile Prophecies of 606 B.C. and 587 B.C.
By Guy Cramer
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/exile.html
..."Since the topic can be quite confusing, I have added a color coded Chronology Table which can be refered to throughout the paper. All passages in the paper that relate to one of the three dating methods will display the same color as that in the table.
"A solution to this controversy has always been to correlate the reign of Jewish Kings of the time with that of Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar. Many archaeological discoveries of the last 90 years have uncovered many Babylonian texts that give precise times of astronomical data along with the year of the King and the name of the King in the same document. Other chronicles from Babylon that have been uncovered also give the year and name of the king and events that happened at that time. The astronomical information gives us data which we can translate into modern dating of the astronomical cycles to give us an accurate time scale in which the events occurred. This data when correlated answers a few contradictions in the Bible along with a few other mysteries.
"A problem with getting the correct dates has been the technicality of how the Biblical writer dates the ascension of Babylonian Kings:
"In Babylonian chronicles, the year a King ascends the throne is called accession year, the following year which would begin on the New Year (1st Nisan) would be the first year and so on.
"Jewish chronicles when explaining the year for the Babylonian king's reign, follow a non-accession year system, and begins counting the starting year as the first regnal year, the next which would begin on the New Year (1st Nisan) as the second and so on.
"Jewish chronicles in this time period when explaining a Jewish king's reign, use the accession year as the first year the following year which would begin on the New Year (1st Nisan) would be the first year and so on"....
Chronology Table
by Guy Cramer
http://www.direct.ca/trinity/dates.html
"Jeweish Non Accession Year System when explaining the year of Nebuchadnezzar =
1st year for Nebuchadnezzar
All regnal years would begin 1 Nisan (Mar/April)" Agape
Incoming e-mail, Re:
Oh Marilyn, Thank You for your most recent information concerning the Return of the Lord Jesus.
It seems that I have felt it in my spirit that the Lord would come back for us..this Spring. We recently had a trip to Portugal and as we flew over the Atlantic Ocean..all the wonders of the sky and creation touched my heart and it seemed like the Lord was saying, "I'm coming soon to gather you in the clouds, so that you can meet Me in the air!!
We only have about 8 more weeks to be a witness for our Lord on this ole' earth. Blessings,
--- (the one who went to Heaven and back)
Incoming e-mail, Re:
Your dates for the tribulation are totally wrong per www.jesus2006.org and no where in the word does it say two Raptures...and you predicted Hannukah for the Rapture in 2006 and many dates come and gone on Pentecost per your teaching for many years----it is a Jewish holiday already fulfilled...the Third Day is the most probably day...and Jesus rose from the dead on a Saturday...this year the day falls on April 5....many no one will ever know the day...but you have no numerics to support Penecost..
My reply
> > Your dates for the tribulation are totally wrong per www.jesus2006.org
I went to Daniel W. Matson's "SIGNS of the END" (www.jesus2006.org/) and was pleased to see that he wrote, "Forty 365-day years (see year of Enoch) from June 7, 1967 lands on Pentecost 2007--exactly." To me, that ties in with a Pentecost Rapture. Below is his explanation of how he figured that. Also, on the Five Doves site today, March 21, Daniel Matson said, "Will this Pentecost be the day the Church's fullness comes? The fullness of the Gentiles? The full lump of dough (Rom 11:16)?" a Pentecost Rapture must not be totally foreign to his way of thinking.
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http://www.jesus2006.org/signsoftheend/enoch.html
Concerning the issue of consistency and why 365 day years were used instead of 364.81 days per year, there is more to be shown. If the Book of Enoch and the analysis are correct that the years at Enoch's time were 364.81 days per year, then is this the standard? But, what is the average of the year over human history? Is this not more significant? What happens when we count the days until the end of the Millennium (provided there are no more changes in the length of the solar year) and divide them all by 7000? Does this equal 365?
Here is the portion that I believe is correct:
4005 to 2349 BC (the Flood) = 1656 years x 364.81 days per year = 604,125 days
2349 to 713 BC (Sundial) = 1635.5 years x 360 days per year = 588,780 days
713 BC to 2017 AD = 2729.5 years x 365.2422 days per year = 996,929 days
2017 to 3017 AD = 1000 years x 365.2422 days per year = 365,242 days
Total days = 2,555,076 which divided by 7000 years = 365.01086 days per year on average.
The 0.01086 comes from the extra 76 days since 7000 x 365 = 2,555,000, so it is off by 76 days over 7000 years!
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My figuring is very simple. The Six-Day War started on Iyar 26, 5727 (June 5, 1967), so 40 years later would end on Iyar 26, 5767 (May 14, 2007). To me, that rings a bell, because Iyar 26 is the anniversary of the day Jesus ascended, the 40th day after Firstfruits. It seems possible that Jesus could come for the Bride of Christ on Ascension Day, but then why would Heb. 10:35-37 say, "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. for YE HAVE NEED OF PATIENCE, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. For YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY." Couldn't that type indicate that there will also be a little bit of tarrying in our days? The wise virgins waited awhile. Maybe this is a clue.
Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise believer) will come (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture) in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will CUT HIM IN SUNDER (lit., cut him off), AND WILL APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS." To me, that "portion with the unbelievers" is the shortened Tribulation. What does it mean to you?
The second Rapture hasn't been taught much. Some don't even teach about the first Rapture. Others argue over when the Rapture will take place, before the Tribulation, or just before the wrath of God falls on Earth. All too often, they don't realize that both positions are true. Some don't believe there will be such a thing as a Rapture. The majority opinion doesn't mean that there isn't a Pre-Trib and a Pre-Wrath Rapture. Listen as Christ tells us what will happen on the second Day of the Son of Man. Mt 24:50,51 says, "THE LORD of that servant (the evil believer) shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And SHALL CUT HIM ASUNDER, AND APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE HYPOCRITES (pretenders): THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."
The Pre-Trib Rapture is the first Day of the Son of Man. That is when the first "trumpet of God" sounds in I Thess. 4:16,17. The "last trump" of God sounds at the last Rapture (I Cor. 15:55,52). The Pre-Wrath Rapture is the last Day of the Son of Man. In Luke 17:22,23, Jesus said, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN (i.e., the first Rapture), and ye shall not see it. And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them"
See here or there will be said during the Tribulation. Mt. 24:21-24 says, "For THEN SHALL BE GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. THEN IF ANY MAN SHALL SAY UNTO YOU, LO, HERE IS CHRIST, OR THERE; BELIEVE IT NOT. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
The first Day of the Son of Man is as the days of Noah. Rain fell, but no fire and brimstone are mentioned. In Mt. 24:37-41, Jesus said, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT." That is the first Rapture, before the Tribulation.
The second Day of the Son of Man is as the days of Lot. Fire fell. Luke 17:29-36 says, "The SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE IN THE DAY WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED (when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky). In that day (the Day of God's Wrath) he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back (that is because he will be caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture). Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER SHALL BE LEFT. Two women shall be grinding together; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT. Two men shall be in the field; the ONE SHALL BE TAKEN, AND THE OTHER LEFT." That is the second Rapture, just before the fire falls on the Day of God's Wrath.
The first group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. They are out of all nations, but the 144,000 Israelites are not among them. The entire first group sing the NEW SONG.
The second group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14. They are also out of all nations, but the 144,000 Israelites are among them. Of these, ONLY THE 144,000 SING THE NEW SONG (Rev. 14:4,5). All those that sing the NEW SONG are the Bride of Christ.
Many will see the first Rapture take place. Psa 40:3 says, "And he hath put a NEW SONG in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD."
Psa 149:1-9 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation of saints. Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. LET THE SAINTS BE JOYFUL IN GLORY: LET THEM SING ALOUD UPON THEIR BEDS. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and A TWOEDGED SWORD IN THEIR HAND; TO EXECUTE VENGEANCE UPON THE HEATHEN, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."
On the Day of God's Wrath, the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place before the 7 trumpet judgments take place. In the last verse of Rev. 6, the Day of God's Wrath has come. In Rev. 7:14, we see that the Tribulation saints are in Heaven. Then, as Rev. 8 begins, there is silence in Heaven and on Earth while Jesus Christ is seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Only after that are the 7 trumpets given to the 7 angels.
Luke 24:49 says, "behold, I SEND THE PROMISE of my Father upon you: BUT TARRY YE in the city of Jerusalem, UNTIL YE BE ENDUED WITH POWER FROM ON HIGH." We can't go up unless we are endued with power from on high. That power descended on Pentecost to indwell the Church. I think that power, i.e., the Holy Spirit, will ascend with us in tow on another Pentecost.
Notice that in the parable of the ten virgins, the bridegroom (i.e., Christ) tarried. Mt 25:1-6 says, "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While THE BRIDEGROOM TARRIED, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him."
The wise virgins are caught up in the first Rapture, the first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16). The foolish virgins are caught up in the second Rapture, at the "last trump" of God (I Cor. 15:51,52). Of the second group, only the 144,000 Israelites will be called virgins. Rev. 14:3-5 says, "And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." The 144,000 are the last rank in the firstfruits caught up to Heaven.
Remember what Rev. 3:10,11 says to the Philadelphian church of brotherly love. "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (the Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."
> > no where in the word does it say two Raptures
It doesn't say "Rapture" anywhere. I Thess. 4:16 talks about the saints being "caught up." We call that catching up the Rapture. That is at the first trump of God. 1Th 4:16-18 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD (the first trump): and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
The second Rapture is the "last trump." The last of anything suggests a series. We can't have a last without a first. 1 Cor 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
The first group of saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. The second group of saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14. At the first trump, the Bride of Christ is caught up to Heaven, where she sings the NEW SONG. At the last trump, only the 144,000 Israelites are added to the Bride group (Rev. 14:3-5). All of the first group sing the New Song, but of the second group, only the 144,000 can sing it. Rev. 14:3 says, "And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH." These were caught up to Heaven in the second Rapture.
In "redeemed from", the word translated from is apo, which "usually denotes separation, DEPARTURE". That DEPARTURE is the second Rapture. The first Rapture is also referred to as a DEPARTURE. II Thess. 2:3 (HNV) says of the first Rapture, It (the Day of the Lord) "will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction".
> > (Pentecost) "it is a Jewish holiday already fulfilled"
Do you mind that? If Christ comes on Ascension Day, it has already been fulfilled once too. Eccl 1:10 says, "Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us."
There were two loaves to be brought out of their habitations and waved before the Lord on Pentecost, so two fulfillments may be why there were two loaves, or, as some say, the two loaves can represent Jews and Gentiles. At the first Rapture, mainly Gentiles are caught up to Heaven. At the second Rapture, we know that there will be 144,000 Jews.
Pentecost is one of three feasts that all the men had to go up to Jerusalem, Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles. On which feast will men go up to New Jerusalem? I can't be sure, but I think it will be Pentecost. There is also a Jewish tradition that Enoch was caught up on his birthday, Sivan 6, Pentecost. The Church was born on Pentecost. Could she also be caught up on Pentecost?
> > the Third Day is the most probably day
> > Jesus rose from the dead on a Saturday
Saturday won't fit. Jesus was crucified on Thursday. The three days and nights in the heart of the Earth were Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).
> > you have no numerics to support Penecost
What kind of numerics are necessary? The type is good. The Holy Spirit came to the Church on Pentecost. That's a powerful reason to think Pentecost will be when Christ will come to the Church. The Church was born into this world on Pentecost. It seems possible to me that the Church could be born into a new world on Pentecost.
Pentecost fits Song of Solomon 2:10-14. The time when the grape vines are in blossom and put out the first grapes is around the end of May or the first of June. Pentecost this year is May 23 and 24. Agape
Pro and Con 1326 Or Return
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Updated 3-21-07