Pro and Con 1512

Posted 9-24-09

Another possible sign

Michelle Anne (23 Sep 2009)
"Armagedon!!! so many people thought!?"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2009/michellea923.htm

A REALLY REALLY BAD dust storm swept over the East coast of Australia today. I was just listening to the nightly news and people from Brisbane to Sydney were thinking it may have been the end of the world. They were very serious. If they only knew, this is nothing like that great event will be. No filters have been used on these photos. They were taken at 8:30 this morning. Sydney was very orange. Brisbane was , as the news reader said "Blood red". I live on the coast in Queensland and the dust rolled in at 4:08 this after noon. Just another sign of the times!!
Michelle-anne

My reply

Thank you, Michelle. I agree. Something as unusual as this could be a sign of the times. It should grab our attention. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: WATCH DATE: November 4, 2009 (17 Cheshvan, 5770)

Concerning some study on possible Pre-Trib rapture dating you did last year, you may have forgotton about.

Attached below is your text copy from October 30, 2008 Pro Con 1443. (Just to remind you of what page you were on then).

I can't believe it's been 11 years since Pentecost 1998 when I first came over to your house to watch with you.

I am back in Moreno Valley on Hemlock Street staying at my mother's house. She's been in hospitals and nursing re-habs since January 1, 2009. (That's too long a story...)

I have cataracts too. Right now I walk or take the bus. I recently started regular reading at your website again. I have been searching there for pertinent text to send friends and relatives. The "no man knoweth the day and the hour", always seems the biggest obstacle for even Christians.

So I'm trying to find the best bits and pieces of what you've written on that particular subject and try to get in all together on one page. I could never ever write as much enlightened copy as you can on scripture, but I enjoy crafting a little editing on it.

Thanks For All Your Hard Work, You Are An Inspiration
---
Excerpt from Pro Con 1443 (October 30, 2008) (edited)

In Luke 17:22-37, Jesus said, "The days will come (i.e., the 2 Days of the Son of Man, the 2 Raptures), when ye shall desire to see ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN (the 1st Rapture), and ye shall not see it (i.e., get left behind the first time). And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day (the Day of the Lord that is also the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture). But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF NOE, so shall it be also in THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until THE DAY THAT NOE ENTERED INTO THE ARK (Cheshvan 17), and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom (probably on the Feast of Trumpets) it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (i.e., when they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky). In that day (the Day of the Lord), he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that NIGHT there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (i.e., the Body of Christ) is (i.e., in Heaven), thither will the eagles (the high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

Mark 13:32-37 says, "But of that DAY AND that HOUR knoweth (present tense, i.e., at that time, no man knew) no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the TIME (kairos, set time, a definite fixed time) is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye KNOW NOT when the master of the house COMETH, AT EVEN, OR AT MIDNIGHT, OR AT THE COCKCROWING, OR IN THE MORNING: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

Jesus didn't say that the porter did not know the day he was returning, just the hour.

In Mt 24:34-42 (KJV), Jesus said, "Verily (amen) I say unto you, This generation (i.e., born in 1967) shall not pass (1967 + 48 = 2015), till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that DAY (hemera) AND HOUR (hora) knoweth (present tense, i.e., at that time no man knew) no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. BUT AS THE DAYS OF NOE WERE (he went into the Ark on Cheshvan 17), SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE (i.e., on Cheshvan 17). For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until THE DAY THAT NOE ENTERED INTO THE ARK (Cheshvan 17), And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. THEN ( tote, AT THE SAME TIME,i.e., on Cheshvan 17) shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (paralambano, taken with), and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what HOUR (hora) your Lord doth come."

Jesus said "DAY AND HOUR" in verse 36, but only "HOUR" in verse 42. Does that mean that he gave us the DAY in between those two verses? If so, it looks like the Pre-Trib Rapture could take place Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 15, 2008 or Nov. 5, 2009). I'll be watching that day.

My reply

Good to hear from you again. Thanks for your kind words, and for reminding me of the Cheshvan 17 date, when Noah was closed up in the Ark and the rain began to fall.

Now, my watch dates are Nov. 4, 5, and 6. The New Crescent Moon was not seen until 9-20-2009. Therefore, 9-21-2009 would be Tishri 1, 5770, instead of 9-19, if we were going by the Moon instead of the present Jewish Calendar.

Isa. 46:8 Remember this, and show yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors. 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure".

I have been busy, had to drive to and from the hospital in M.V. every day from Aug. 12 to Sept. 10. Dave had a ruptured appendix. After a month at the hospital, he is at home, but still has a liver abscess drain in his back, and a intravenous hookup in his arm. A nurse comes every day to give him an intravenous antibiotic for his pneumonia. Progress seems slow. He is still in pain, but is encouraged to walk. Nothing much tastes good to him yet. Hope his CT scan this week will show a lot of improvement. I have to take him. He can't drive yet. Agape

My reply to a post on Five Doves site, Re: Rick Hedrick (22 Sep 2009) "What "LAST TRUMPET" are YOU waiting for???"

I am not looking for the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:52. I think that is the Last Trump Rapture, the catching up of the Tribulation saints on the Day of God's Wrath (Rev. 6:19; 7:14). It takes place on the Feast of Trumpets.

I am looking for the First Trump Rapture. Just maybe it will be on Cheshvan 17 (Nov.a 4, 2009), the day Noah went into the Ark.

In Mt 24:37, Jesus said, "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

In Luke 17:26, Jesus said, "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man."

Gen 7:1,11-13 says, "And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation....In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark".

> > the wisest and most truthful of economic and political forecasters are saying that October is going to be a very bad month for the United States. Ominous things are going to happen over the next several weeks, and we just may hear that "last trumpet" blast coming from just beyond those early Autumn skies!! IT'S HARVEST TIME!!!

The harvest of what? The harvest of barley, wheat and grapes is past, but the harvest of olives remains to be brought in. Cheshvan 17, when Noah went into the Ark, is during the olive harvest.

Cheshvan 17 is Nov. 4, 2009. I sure hope that will be the day of the First Trump Rapture. I don't have enough money to pay some of my regular monthly bills now, and Property Insurance is added Nov. 14, Property Tax Dec. 10. Agape

Dozens Report Strange Lights After NASA Launches Rocket

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,552703,00.html Sept 20, 2009 - NASA says it successfully launched a rocket in Virginia as part of an experiment, and the blast may have caused dozens of people to report seeing strange lights in the sky.

The space agency said it launched the Black Brant XII on Saturday evening to gather data on the highest clouds in the Earth's atmosphere. About the time of the launch, dozens of people in the Northeast started calling local television stations to report seeing strange lights.

The calls came from as far away as Boston, which is about 380 miles northeast of the launch site.

The rocket is designed to create an artificial cloud. NASA hopes the experiment will provide information on the formation and properties of noctilucent clouds, which occur at high altitudes.

My reply to an incoming email (not included

I'm so very glad we have the Rapture to look forward to. Things are going to get a lot worse during the Tribulation, and we can sure see it approaching. But, thank you Lord, we have a way out of that. Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Agape

OF COURSE

"Nasrallah: We'll never recognize Israel"
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1253198155768&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter

Sep. 18, 2009 - AP , THE JERUSALEM POST
The leader of Lebanon's Hizbullah vowed on Friday that his Shiite terror group will never recognize Israel and that no Arab state has the right to do so either.

Hassan Nasrallah spoke in a televised address to ceremonies marking Quds Day, an annual occasion created by Hizbullah's ally Iran to show support for the Palestinians. Quds is Arabic for Jerusalem.

"No one has the right to recognize this entity (Israel) or approve its legitimacy," the black-turbaned Nasrallah said...

Nasrallah's comments came hours after President Barack Obama's special Mideast envoy was unable to bridge wide gaps between Israelis and Palestinians on the terms of renewing peace talks. Mitchell had urged the Arab world to take steps toward normalizing relations with Israel as he pressed Israel to halt construction of settlements in the West Bank.

Obama-Netanyahu-Abbas summit scheduled for Sept. 22 in New York

DEBKAfile, Sept 14, 2009
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6256

The Obama administration early Wednesday Sept 9 decided to schedule a tripartite US-Israeli-Palestinian summit at UN center in New York for Sept 22...

The three leaders will declare Middle East peace talks resumed from that point....

DEBKAfile's political sources note that the US president's scheduling of the tripartite summit will require Netanyahu, Barak and foreign minister Lieberman to be present in New York and away from Israel over the New Year Festival.

Our Middle East sources report that the Arab leaders, Saudi King Abdullah and Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak, are working hard to beat the rival Palestinian side into shape and force them to bury the hatchet, at least ad hoc, in order to send a united delegation to the peace talks. Their heavy arm-twisting has kept Palestinian Authority chairman Mahmoud Abbas and Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal and their parties airborne between Gaza, Damascus, Cairo and Riyadh for the last couple of weeks. A prisoner trade to free the Israeli soldier Gilead Shalit was not at the forefront of their meetings, as widely reported by Israeli media.

Past Saudi and Egyptian efforts to mend the rift in Palestinian ranks have consistently failed, but Middle East sources insist that this time Abdullah and Mubarak are determined not to take no for an answer....

The new system offers a real missile defence

By Hillary Rodham Clinton, Sept 20, 2009
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7b9374ea-a61a-11de-8c92-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

Last Wednesday, President Barack Obama approved the recommendations of his entire national security team to deploy a stronger and more comprehensive missile defence system in Europe. This decision came after a lengthy and in-depth review of our assessment of the threat posed by Iran’s ballistic missile programme, and the technology that we have to confront it. And it is a decision that will leave America stronger, and more capable of defending our troops, our interests, and our allies.

With the president’s decision, we will deploy missile defence sooner than the previous programme, so that we will be able swiftly to counter the threat posed by Iran’s short and medium-range ballistic missiles.

We will deploy missile defence that is more comprehensive than the previous programme, with more interceptors in more places, and a better capacity to protect all of our friends and allies in the region. We will deploy technology that is actually proven so that we do not waste time or taxpayer money, and we will preserve the flexibility to adjust our approach to the threat as it evolves.

This is a stronger and smarter approach than the previous programme. It does what missile defence is actually supposed to do – it defends America and our allies.

We are not “shelving” missile defence. We are enhancing our capacity to protect our interests and our allies. We are not walking away from our allies but are deploying a system that enhances allied security, advances our co-operation with Nato, and actually places more resources in more countries.

Two of those allies are Poland and the Czech Republic, and we deeply appreciate their willingness to host parts of the previously planned system....

Len Horowitz files pandemic charges against Rockefeller

19 Sept 2009
http://www.theflucase.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=647%3Alen-horowitz-files-pandemic-charges-against-rockefeller&catid=1%3Alatest-news&Itemid=64?=en

LOS ANGELES, CA -- Drug-industry investigators have uncovered documents exposing an international drug ring, operating from New York City, is behind the H1N1 swine flu fright and vaccination preparations....

Interesting Article I want to read

God's Signature of Authenticity - fulfilled biblical prophecy
http://star.wind.mystarband.net/bib/daniel_69_weeks_proof.html

Incoming e-mail, Re: ARE WOMEN TO REMAIN SILENT IN THE CHURCH?

To all, here is an email I sent to a friend. I want to share this with you and ask for any response you may have to this....

Kel, I was going to mention this to you along the lines of the Bride of Christ that we have been discussing. Remember Paul's admonition about wives in I Cor. 11 and other epistles.......''not to talk'' in church, etc. ''To be silent in church etc//''?

Here is what I believe the Holy spirit has shown me. Just as there is a letter of the law approach that applies to the OT, so there is a letter of the law approach that applies to the written letter of the NT............they are both ''written'' are they not? Therefore a legalistic approach could be .......and often is......taken to the ''literal'' interpretation of verses even in the NT. Why is this?

I believe it is because God put ''obstacles'' to understanding His true intent of the word, that those who are not lead of the Spirit will stumble over.

So, a literal, legalistic interpretation of those verses result in more ''women bashing'' about being in a subservient role. ''Keep quiet, and stay shut up.''

But here is what I believe is the true intent of WHY Paul wrote these things about wives being silent in the church. First of all the Greek word for ''women'' in the texts in question applies only to wives......not women in general. Why only to wives? Read on.

The Bride of Christ, in this world is represented in a Christian marriage specifically by the wife.......even though all Christians, both male and female are espoused to Christ.

So the ''key'' to understand these passages by Paul is to realize the Typology involved.

The Bride of Christ in this age/world is ''hidden''. She is ''not known''. Therefore, to represent this hidden/ not known/ condition the wife is to remain silent!! She is not to call attention to herself!! BUT WHY? It is because of Who she represents........not because of intrinsic lesser status.

For one Day........the Bride of Christ will be Revealed.........for all to see........and will ''no longer be silent''. She will do some real talking then!!

I KNOW this is of God and is the reason for why Paul wrote as he did. And as Peter said, possibly referring to verses such as these, ''Paul writes some things hard to be understood.........which those that are unlearned twist to their own destruction.......''

By applying what Paul said about wives in the current church .....as an end in itself......without understanding the INTENT OF THIS ''RULE''............is to make the same mistake that the Pharisees did with regard to the OT law!!!!!!!

The ''truth will set us free''. Jesus came to teach the INTENT of the Law................and that is the approach we should allow the Spirit to do with regards to the Written New Testament. God Bless

My reply

Thanks. I remember that the only time I spoke in front of the church, I was asked to tell them about my experience in using their library. I read everything that looked interesting there, then went on to get my library card from BIOLA. I read books from their Seminary Collection for the next 7 years. Agape

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