Pro and Con 1515

Posted10-13-09

AN ALBINO MOOSE

Incoming e-mail, Re: How does this tie in with your knowledge?

Interesting article... how does this tie in with your knowledge of ancient Hebrew?

Thanks!

My reply

Re: "God is not the Creator, claims academic"
"The notion of God as the Creator is wrong, claims a top academic, who believes the Bible has been wrongly translated for thousands of years.
By Richard Alleyne
08 Oct 2009

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6274502/God-is-not-the-Creator-claims-academic.html

Prof Van Wolde, 54, who will present a thesis on the subject at Radboud University in The Netherlands where she studies, said she had re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole, and in the context of other creation stories from ancient Mesopotamia.

She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".

The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth"

According to Judeo-Christian tradition, God created the Earth out of nothing.

Prof Van Wolde, who once worked with the Italian academic and novelist Umberto Eco, said her new analysis showed that the beginning of the Bible was not the beginning of time, but the beginning of a narration.

She said: "It meant to say that God did create humans and animals, but not the Earth itself."

She writes in her thesis that the new translation fits in with ancient texts.

According to them there used to be an enormous body of water in which monsters were living, covered in darkness, she said.

She said technically "bara" does mean "create" but added: "Something was wrong with the verb.

"God was the subject (God created), followed by two or more objects. Why did God not create just one thing or animal, but always more?"

She concluded that God did not create, he separated: the Earth from the Heaven, the land from the sea, the sea monsters from the birds and the swarming at the ground.

"There was already water," she said.

"There were sea monsters. God did create some things, but not the Heaven and Earth. The usual idea of creating-out-of-nothing, creatio ex nihilo, is a big misunderstanding."

My reply

I strongly disagree with Prof Van Wolde. Isn't it interesting that even she has to admit that "'bara' does mean 'create."

Individual words in the Bible have to be interpreted in light of everything else in Scripture, not only in Hebrew, but in Greek.

This is the wierdest day of my entire life. Before I could quote the Bible verses I meant to, I was attacked by extreme pain that sent me to bed. I had a muscle spasm in my back caused by lifting too heavy a load of wet towels from defrosting the refrigerator to take it to the washer. It was a silly thing to do. I could have taken them in 2 or 3 loads, but I didn't think of that before it was too late.

My Side by side freezer/refrigerator was not cold enough on the refrigerator side to keep milk, but the freezer was ok. I searched for help on the Internet and found an excellent tip.

The fan that blows cold air from freezer to refrigerator had iced up and stopped running. Thoroughly defrosting fixed the refrigerator, but I was out of commission for the rest of the day.

When I finally got the muscle spasm relaxed, and sat down at my computer, I was looking at a My Space document my grandson had left up. On it, I read "Is There a God?" I clicked this URL:
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html?gclid=CO-NjY-DuZ0CFSUsawodf2w5ig

"Is There a God?" came up. Written By Marilyn Adamson, it is excellent. She covers these points:

"1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
"2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?
"3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?
"4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.
"5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.
"6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us."
---
I think I was supposed to find that article at this particular time. Marilyn Adamson did an exceptionally good job.

"Prof Van Wolde...said she had re-analysed the original Hebrew text and placed it in the context of the Bible as a whole". In my opinion, she did not do a good job

Here are the scriptures I was going to quote. They were written in Greek and show that Van Wolde is wrong.

Col 1:15-17 says, "Who (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, THAT ARE IN HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM: AND HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST."

John 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM, AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE."

Heb 1:1,2 says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS".

I think Richard Alleyne, who believes that "the Bible has been wrongly translated for thousands of years" is accepting the wrong teaching. Agape

His reply

Thanks so much! I knew you could get to the truth of it!

Incoming e-mail, Re: Signs

There is a star named The 10 Virgins in the constellation Virgo. At Sunset, Just before the Last Trump is sounded announcing Rosh Hashana, this star sets with the sun because they are very close to each other on these two days. When the sun goes beneath the horizon, the thin crescent moon is revealed on September 30 or October 1 of ...(2008). At this time Virgo is clothed in the Sun and the Moon is at her feet. Symbolically twilight falls on the 10 virgins and they must light their lamps so they can go forth to meet the Groom and enter into the wedding chamber. There will be signs in the Sun, Moon and Stars! I have attached a image from Starry Night showing this amazing alignment.

My reply

Thanks. Sorry to be so long in answering. I didn't know a star was called the 10 virgins. The sky would look something like this each Tishri 1. Agape

A post on the Five Doves site

Kenneth Pelletier (7 Oct 2009)
"Marilyn Agee on 1st Thess. 4:16 (6 Oct 09)"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/kennethp107.htm

I found your response to Susan Bentley yesterday on 1 Th. 4:16&17 confusing.

"RE: QUESTION ON 1TH 4:16-17"

> > the question that has been BUGGING me greatly is "then we which are alive and REMAIN" - remain from what????

It is more like remain where? remain on Earth. The word translated "remain" in I Thess. 4:16 is Strong's perileipo. It means to leave all around, that is, (passively) survive: - remain.

It is talking about the living part of the Bride of Christ still remaining on Earth when the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture comes. The dead part of the Bride of Christ has already gone to Heaven. We are the ones that remain on Earth. We are the ones that will be caught up with those that have died and come back from Heaven with Christ. They get their resurrection bodies first, then we will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air and be taken to Heaven. Then the complete Body of Christ will be in Heaven.

I’m confused – Am I reading your understanding of verses 16&17 of 1st Thess. Chapter 4 as saying that at the Rapture, the “Dead in Christ” are returning from Heaven to meet the living “In Christ” in the air? I’m not aware of a scripture that says The dead In Christ shall rise first, go to heaven and then return to meet the living In Christ. Do you have supporting scripture for this? My understanding is that when believers die, their Inner Man (spirit) goes to heaven and is joined with their body at the Rapture. If the Dead In Christ are already in heaven in their human bodies, then their rapture took place at death. What am I missing here? YBITL

My reply

Re: Kenneth Pelletier (7 Oct 2009)
"Marilyn Agee on 1st Thess. 4:16 (6 Oct 09)"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2009/kennethp107.htm

> > I’m confused – Am I reading your understanding of verses 16&17 of 1st Thess. Chapter 4 as saying that at the Rapture, the “Dead in Christ” are returning from Heaven to meet the living “In Christ” in the air? I’m not aware of a scripture that says The dead In Christ shall rise first, go to heaven and then return to meet the living In Christ. Do you have supporting scripture for this? My understanding is that when believers die, their Inner Man (spirit) goes to heaven and is joined with their body at the Rapture. If the Dead In Christ are already in heaven in their human bodies, then their rapture took place at death. What am I missing here?

I'm sorry I didn't make it clear. I'll try again. Let's go into some background first, then read I Thess. 4:13-18.

Man is made up of spirit, soul and body. 1Thess. 5:23 says, "And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your WHOLE SPIRIT AND SOUL AND BODY be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."

There is a natural body and a spiritual body. 1Cor 15:42-44 says, "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: IT IS SOWN A NATURAL BODY, IT IS RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY. THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, AND THERE IS A SPIRITUAL BODY.

There is a first death and a second death. Rev 20:6 says, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

As I understand it, the first death is death of the natural body. That can happen to believers and unbelievers. After death of the body, the believer still has his soul and spirit, and he goes to Heaven at the death of his body. He has to wait in Heaven until the Rapture to get his resurrection body, and at the Rapture, he will get his resurrection body before the living do..

There are two Raptures that take place in the First Resurrection, one before the Tribulation at the first trump of God, the other at the end of the shortened Tribulation, at the "last trump" of God. At the first Rapture, the dead are raised in incorruption. At the last Rapture, all saints will be changed, actually become immortal. The next Resurrection will be at the end of the Millennium.

Incorruption is put on at the First Trump Rapture. Immortality is put on at the Last Trump Rapture.

1Co 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

The second death can only happen to unbelievers. That second death is death of the soul. I can't find any place in the Bible where spirits ever die. That may be the "worm" that never dies. Mark 9:48 says, "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

The second death takes place at the end of the Millennium. Rev 21:8 says, "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

1Th 4:13-18

"But I (Paul) would not have you to be ignorant, brethren (believers), concerning them which are asleep (believers that have died), that ye sorrow not, even as others (unbelievers) which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS (believers that have died and been taken to Heaven, spirit and soul, but without their resurrection bodies) WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep (have died). For (at the Rapture) the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST (GET THEIR RESURRECTION BODIES BEFORE THE LIVING SAINTS GET THEIRS): Then (after that) WE WHICH ARE ALIVE AND REMAIN SHALL BE CAUGHT UP (raptured) TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

I hope that is clear now. The dead in Christ will come back from Heaven with Jesus, then get their resurrection bodies. After that, the living believers on Earth will rise up with them to meet the Lord in the air. At that point, all that group are part of the Bride of Christ and will be taken to Heaven.

The Bride of Christ is part of the Body of Christ. At the second Rapture, the 144,000 Israelites will be added to the Bride group. The rest of the great multitude that will be saved (Rev. 7:9) will be part of the Body of Christ.

The Bride of Christ sings the new song. Rev. 5:9 says, "And they (i.e., the wise virgins) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation".

Rev 14:2-5 says, "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Psa 149:5-9 says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them SING aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD." Agape

Strong quakes near Vanuatu spark tsunami alert

Wed Oct 7, 7:42 pm ET
WELLINGTON, New Zealand – Two powerful earthquakes rocked the South Pacific near the Vanuatu archipelago Thursday morning, the U.S. Geological Survey reported, triggering a regional tsunami alert.

The first quake, with a magnitude of 7.8, struck 183 miles (294 kilometers) northwest of the Vanuatu island of Santo, and 354 miles (596 kilometers) northwest of the capital of Port Vila, at a depth of 21 miles (35 kilometers).

Just 15 minutes later a second quake with a magnitude 7.3 hit at the same depth but 21 miles (35 kilometers) farther north of Santo and Port Vila....

The latest warning comes just 10 days after a quake of magnitude 8.3 rocked the South Pacific near Samoa, sparking tsunami waves that killed at least 178 people and devastated coastal villages in Samoa, American Samoa and in northern Tonga.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Geological Survey reported a strong earthquake struck south of the Philippines on Thursday morning local time.

The quake had a preliminary magnitude of 6.7 and was located in the Celebes Sea, 175 miles (282 kilometers) southeast of Jolo, Sulu Archipelago, and 730 miles (1,175 kilometers) south of Manila. The quake hit at 5:41 a.m. Thursday local time.

Incoming e-mail, Re: 2000 years of church age/ keep

Marilyn, you said ''The Age of the Church was roughly 2000 years, 1 AD TO 2001 AD.''

That is just totally incorrect. Jesus ministered under the Old Covenant. The Church AGE did not start till Pentecost of 33 AD.

I sure hope you can see that!!

Any prophetic scenario that does not take the above correct era of the church age into account is just Wrong. Period.

When you and others base your ''calculations'' on erroneous assumptions like your statement above it is just wild guessing.....as has been the case now for many years. I have trouble understanding Why you cannot see this?

My reply

Sunday, the seventh day of the feast of Tabernacles, will be the anniversary of the Outer Space Treaty which was signed on October 10, 1967, year of the Six-Day War. That year was sure marked.

Here is a correction of a typo in my former email: "There are to be 7 months (not years) between the Day of God's Wrath on the Feast of Trumpets and the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1 (Eze. 39:12,13)."

Eze. 38:18-20 depicts the Day of God's Wrath and its worldwide earthquake, then Eze. 39:12,13 shows us that there are 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent. It says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." He will be glorified at the Second Advent.

> > Marilyn, you said ''The Age of the Church was roughly 2000 years, 1 AD TO 2001 AD.''
> > That is just totally incorrect. Jesus ministered under the Old Covenant. The Church AGE did not start till Pentecost of 33 AD.
> > I sure hope you can see that!!

I see what you mean. Of course, you know that I think the era of the Church literally started after the Crucifixion of April 6 (my son's birthday), 30 AD, i.e., at Pentecost, May 29 (my daughter's birthday), 30 AD. I think that was the birthday of the Church, but we don't need to go over that date again. I know that you think the Crucifixion was in 33 AD. I think we agreed to disagree on this.

Regarding the Age of the Gentiles, Age of the Jews, and Age of the Church being 2000 years each, and the Millennium being 1000 years to make up 7 years of time, that was a rough outline taught by R.B. Thieme. We don't have to go by that.

What do we have to go by? Scripture, the Olivet Discourse, given by Jesus during the week before the Crucifixion,

Mt. 24:3 (LITV) says, "And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when will these things be? And, WHAT IS THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING AND OF THE END OF THE AGE?"

Mt 24:32-34 (LITV) says, "But learn the parable of the fig tree (Israel): When its branch (apalos, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel) becomes tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19 years old, as Israel was at the time of the Six-Day War in 1967) and it puts out leaves (Gaza Strip, West Bank, Golan Heights, Sinai), you know that the summer is near (the Six-Day War started June 5; summer began June 21); so also you, when you see all these things, know that it (the Kingdom of God, Luke 21:31) is near at the doors (symbol of 2 Raptures, Rev. 3:8). Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things have occurred."

"THE SIGN" of Jesus' coming and "THE END OF THE AGE" seems to be when the fig tree, modern Israel, grew leaves in the Six-Day War. It doesn't seem possible to have come later then when Israel was 19 in 1967.

How long is a generation? Mt 1:17 (LITV) says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ, fourteen generations." This gives us 48.33 years for one generation. 1967 + 48.33 = 2015.33. How can this age go beyond that?

I take it that "THE END OF THE AGE" will also be THE END OF THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL, THE TIME OF THE END, THE DAY OF THE PRE-WRATH RAPTURE, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH and THE DAY OF THE LORD. Do we agree on this?

Dan 8:17-19 (LITV) says, "O son of man, understand, for the vision is for THE TIME OF THE END. And while he was speaking with me, I was stunned and on my face toward the ground. But he touched me and made me stand. And he said, Behold, I will make you know what shall happen in THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION. For it is for the time appointed for THE END."

I think THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION will be on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015). The year 5775 is a Sabbatic Year, It divides by 7 equally. Therefore, 5776 could be the Jubilee Year. If so, it would start Nisan 1, 5776 (April 9, 2016). To me, it looks like that could be the day of the Second Advent. 2016 - 7 = 2009. That's why I am hoping for the Rapture this year, maybe Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 4, or 6 if going by the Moon). Cheshvan 17 was the day Noah was shut into the Ark and it began to rain. As it was in the days of Noah could indicate Cheshvan 17. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: looking forward to Jesus return

Thanks for your blog site, really appreciate it.

I have a question regarding the generation time. It says in Psalms that man would live three score (60 years) plus 10 = 70 years - wouldnt this be a generation? From 1947-48 Jews regaining their land to 2017 Jesus second coming is 70 years. I see 1967 falling on a Jubilee year (every 50 years). The Balfour declaration was 1917 - 1967 = 50 years. 1967 Jews getting back Jerusalem to 2017 = 50 years. The first month of the year being Tisheri = September, this year 2009, it is now 2010 or 5770 already in Israel.

What do you think? Blessings

My reply

The word generation is defined by Webster's Dictionary as the period of time (about 30 years) between the birth of one generation and the birth of another.

The Bible defines a generation as 40 in some places when talking about the 40 years Israel spent in the desert while one generation died off.

Going by Mt. 1:17, a generation is 48.33 years. In the LITV, it says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon until the Christ, fourteen generations."

4032 years divided by 42 equals 48.33 years.

The fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34 says, "But learn the parable of the fig tree (Israel): When its branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel) becomes tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19 years old) and it puts out leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights in the Six-Day War of 1967), you know that the summer is near (that war started June 5 and summer began June 21); so also you, when you see all these things, know that it (the Kingdom of God, Luke 21:31) is near at the doors (Rapture symbol, Rev. 3:8). Truly I say to you, In no way will this generation pass away until all these things have occurred."

1j967 + 48.33 = 2015.33. That will be the Jewish 5776.

5775 is a sabbatic year. It divides by 7 evenly. Thus 5776 could be a Jubilee Year. It seems to me that Jesus will return at the Second Advent as the Jubilee Year begina on Nisan 1, 5776 (April 9, 2016).

Eze. 39:12,13 shows that there are 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath (probably the Feast of Trumpets in 5776, Sept. 14, 2015) and the Second Advent.on the following Nisan 1.

2015 - 7 = 2008. The last half of the Tribulation is to be shortened (Mt. 24:22), so 2009 sounds like it will be the year of the Pre-Trib Rapture. I'm hoping for Cheshvan 17, the day Noah entered the Ark and the Lord closed the DOOR, symbol of the Rapture.

On the Jewish Calendar, Cheshvan 17 will be Nov. 4, 2009. That date could be Nov. 6, because the new Crescent Moon of last Tishri 1 was sighted on Sept. 20, 2009. Thus, the true date of Tishri 1 would have been Sept. 21 instead of Sept. 19, as on the Jewish Calendar. Agape

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