Pro and Con 1519

Posted 10-28-09

Incoming e-mail, Re: "THE RAPTURE ON ROSH HASHANA," and my interspersed reply, "IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOW LIVING IN THE "SPACE TO REPENT", THE FIRST SECTION OF THE TRIBULATION, STRETCHING FROM LAST PENTECOST TO KISLEV 24, 5770."

Hi Marilyn, I found this most interesting and wanted to share it with you. Shortcut to: http://watch.pair.com/rosh-hashana.html

From Marilyn: Thanks. My remarks are interspersed and marked ***

***IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE NOW LIVING IN THE "SPACE TO REPENT", THE FIRST SECTION OF THE TRIBULATION, STRETCHING FROM LAST PENTECOST TO KISLEV 24, 5770 (DEC. 11, ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH CALENDAR, OR DEC. 13, ACCORDING TO GOD'S CALENDAR, BEGINNING THE NEW YEAR AFTER THE NEW CRESCENT MOON IS SIGHTED).

...Another name for Rosh HaShanah is ‘Yom HaDin’, the Day of Judgment. The righteous are separated and will be with God. This is known to us as the Rapture. The wicked will face the wrath of God during the tribulation period.

***I'm no prophet, so I can be wrong, but I have studied the Bible as hard as I could go for at least 49 years. I'll give you my opinion on these things.

***I'm convinced that Rosh HaShanah is the Day of Judgment. It is also the day Jesus is given his kingdom. It is the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the day of the Last-Trump Rapture, and the day of the Marriage of the Lamb.

***There is a Rapture that day just before the Judgment falls on Earth. Those caught up at that time are the Tribulation saints. Of those, 144,000 Israelites will be added to the Bride of Christ that was CAUGHT UP EITHER BEFORE THE TRIBULATION BEGAN, OR SOON THEREAFTER. Rev. 2:10 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." That must be the last 10 days before the Rapture. Maybe Dec. 1 through 10. The 11th will be Kislev 24 (Haggai 2:18,19).

***A BREAKTHROUGH

***This is what I have finally come to understand. IN STEAD OF THE WISE VIRGINS BEING CAUGHT UP BEFORE THE TRIBULATION BEGINS, THEY ARE TO BE CAUGHT UP SOON AFTER IT BEGINS, but before the first seal on the Title Deed of the Earth is broken. According to Rev. 4 and 5, the wise virgins and the 24 elders have to be in Heaven before Jesus is given that seven-sealed document.

*** JOHN, OUR "COMPANION IN TRIBULATION"

***Now, I really understand Rev. 1:9,10. It says, "I John, who also am your brother, AND COMPANION IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (Saturday to Jews, Sunday to Christians), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet".

***THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE

***At the First-Trump Rapture. John, one of the 24 elders, is caught up to Heaven in this Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1. When he got to Heaven, the raptured members of the 7 churches were there, represented by the 7 candlesticks. The 7 star performers were there too, still in Jesus' hand, having just been caught up.

***Rev. 2:10 says to some church saints in Smyrna, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION TEN DAYS (representing a short time, not the whole Tribulation, or even half of it): be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life" (i.e., at the First-Trump Rapture).

***WE ARE PROBABLY NOW LIVING IN THE "SPACE TO REPENT"

***Rev 2:18-24 says, "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira (meaning thoroughly married) write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass (that is at the time of the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:15); I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication (joining together, as when the World Church joins all religions together at Babylon), and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her SPACE TO REPENT (i.e., the time we are now living in) of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I WILL CAST HER INTO A BED, AND THEM THAT COMMIT ADULTERY WITH HER INTO GREAT TRIBULATION (the last half of the Tribulation), except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already HOLD FAST TILL I COME. "

***The First-Trump Rapture will precede the worst of the Tribulation, but it now looks like the Tribulation will have already started. I think it started last Pentecost, May 29, 2009. That was 2300 days before the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015, which seems to be the great and terrible Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath.

***Dan 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the DAILY SACRIFICE, and the transgression of desolation (coming Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

***THE "INDEFINITE EXTENSION"

***I used to think the "daily sacrifice" stood for the first half of the Tribulation. However, I looked up the Hebrew translated "daily sacrifice" and was stunned. In Strong's, the word "tamiyd" means "properly continuance (as INDEFINITE EXTENSION)". It looks like we are now lining in this "INDEFINITE EXTENSION."

***WE HAVE TO THINK THIS THROUGH AGAIN

Luke 21:29-36 says, "And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (other nations); When they now shoot forth (i.e., in the Six-Day War of 1967), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand (the war started June 5; summer started June 21). So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND. Verily I say unto you, This generation (48.33 years, Mt. 1:17, i.e., 1967 + 48.33 = Tishri 1, 2015) shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, THAT YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN." That will hold true no matter when we are raptured.

***We know that the first beast of Rev. 13 will be in power when the First-Trump Rapture takes place.

***Rev. 17:10 says that "ONE IS". Then verse 14 says, "the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." We are with Christ at the time of the First-Trump Rapture, and that is before the 10 kings have received their kingdoms (17:12). We are at that point now. The world has been divided into 10 regions, but their leaders have not yet been selected.

***THE FIRST BEAST

***Rev 13:3-10 says, "I saw one of his heads (Imperial Rome) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast (leader of Ecclesiastical Rome). And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? (the Pope) who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies (he calls himself the Pontifex Maximus when Christ is our High Priest); and power was given unto him to CONTINUE forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN".

***(AT THIS POINT, THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE HAS TAKEN PLACE SOME TIME AFTER THE TRIBULATION BEGAN, BUT BEFORE THE BEAST HAS MADE WAR WITH THE TRIBULATION SAINTS AND OVERCOME THEM.)

"And it was given unto him to make WAR WITH THE SAINTS, AND TO OVERCOME THEM: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

***The Last-Trump Rapture will take place on the Day of God's Wrath. Rev. 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Then in Rev. 7, we see the 144,000 and a great multitude of Tribulation saints caught up to Heaven before the 7 trumpets are given to the 7 angels in Rev. 8.

***In Rev. 14:3-5, we see of that great multitude that is raptured on the Day of God's Wrath, only the 144,000 can sing the new song that was sung in Rev. 5:9 by all those caught up in the First-Trump Rapture BEFORE THE FIRST BEAST WAS REVEALED IN REV. 6.

***Rev 14:3-5 says, "And they (the wise virgins) sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders (caught up to Heaven in the First-Trump Rapture (Rev. 4:4): and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS (as are the wise virgins caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD."

The shofar blown on Rosh HaShanah is known as the last trump,

***True.

which the apostle Paul mentioned in First Thessalonians 4:16-17....

***False. He mentioned it in I Cor. 15:51,52, the Last-Trump Rapture. I Thess 4:16,17 is the First-Trump Rapture.

The gates of Heaven are opened on Rosh HaShanah so the righteous nation may enter (Isaiah 26:2, Psalm 118:19-20). Because the gates of Heaven are understood to be open on Rosh HaShanah, this is further evidence that the Rapture of the believers in Christ will take place on Rosh HaShanah.

***True, but only the Last-Trump Rapture happens on Rosh HaShanah. The 7 years are shortened to 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14). Therefore, the First Trump Rapture of Rev. 4:1 doesn't seem likely to happen on Rosh HaShanah. The 2300 days from last Pentecost to Tishri 1, 2015 seemed to put the first Rapture on last Pentecost, but it didn't happen then.

***Why?

One of the reasons for blowing the shofar is to proclaim the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection of the dead will take place on Rosh HaShanah.

***Yes, the resurrection of the Tribulation saints will probably be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015.

In First Corinthians 15:52, the apostle Paul tells us that the resurrection of the dead will be “at the last trump.” Earlier in First Corinthians 15:14, he wrote that without the Lord Jesus rising from the dead, our faith is in vain.

We cannot go to the Book of Revelation and say that the voice of the seventh angel (Revelation 11:15) is the last trump. In the first century, the last trump (shofar) meant a specific day in the year. In Judaism, there are three trumpets that have a name. They are the first trump, the last trump, and the great trump. Each one of these trumpets indicates a specific day in the Jewish year. The first trump is blown on the Feast of Pentecost (Exodus 19:19).

***The 3 trumps tie in. It looks like the 2300-day Tribulation started last Pentecost. That was the "first trump." On Sept. 14, 2015, the Feast of Trumpets, it seems that the last trump will sound on the Day of God's Wrath. The "great trump" will sound 10 days later on the Day of Atonement to announce that the following year that will start on Nisan 1 will be the Jubilee Year.

It proclaimed that God had betrothed Himself to Israel. The last trump is synonymous with Rosh HaShanah, according to Theodore Gaster in his book, Festivals of the Jewish Year, in his chapter on Rosh HaShanah. Herman Kieval also states the same thing in his book, The High Holy Days in the chapter on the shofar. The great trumpet is blown on Yom Kippur, which will herald the return of Jesus back to the earth (Matthew 24:31).

***The Jubilee year that will probably start Nisan 1, 5776, would be announced on the preceding Day of Atonement, Yom Kppur.

The first and last trump relate to the two horns of the ram, which according to Jewish tradition, was caught in the thicket on Mount Moriah when Abraham was ready to slay Isaac and offer him up as a burnt offering. This ram became the substitute for Isaac even as Jesus became the substitute for us and provided life for us through His death.

***It still fits if the Tribulation started last Pentecost and the end of the Tribulation was on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015.

Rabbi Eliezer tells us in Pirkei Avot, that the left horn (first trump) was blown on Mount Sinai, and its right horn (the last trump) will be blown to herald the coming of the Lord for His Church.

***I think the last trump will be to gather the Tribulation saints. No wonder there was a delay of the people ascending the mount at Mt. Sinai. The first Rapture was not to be on Pentecost.

Isaiah 18:3 and First Thessalonians 4:13-18 speak of the resurrection of the dead. First Thessalonians chapter 5 continues with the day of the Lord and the birthpangs of the Messiah. The festivals will, beyond a shadow of a doubt, tell you that the resurrection of the dead precedes the time of Jacob’s trouble (the Tribulation).

***The time of Jacob's trouble is one day like no other. It is the Day of God's Wrath. Dan. 12:1,2 says, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and THERE SHALL BE A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time thy people shall be delivered (or shall escape), every one that shall be found written in the book. "

***Isa 18:5-7 says, "For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches. They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all THE BEASTS OF THE EARTH SHALL WINTER UPON THEM. IN THAT TIME SHALL THE PRESENT BE BROUGHT UNTO THE LORD OF HOSTS OF A PEOPLE scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled (lit., divided), to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion."

First Thessalonians 4:16-17 says that the dead in Christ will rise first, and that the catching away of the believers will immediately follow.

***It doesn't say "immediately." but some assume it means that. 1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then (oun, likewise, therefore; not tote, which means at the same time) we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The term ‘rapture’ comes from the Greek word ‘harpazo’, which means “to seize, catch away, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force” (1 Thessalonians 4;17). Isaiah 57:1-2 speaks clearly of the resurrection of the dead, the taking of the believers, and the hiding of the believers from the indignation (the tribulation). Zephaniah 1:14-18 and 2:2-3 tells about the terrible times during the day of the Lord, the birthpangs of the Messiah, and issues a decree to repent and turn to God before that day to be hid from that time.

Psalm 27:5 says the righteous will be hid in the time of trouble.

***Thank you for that reference. Psa 27:5 says, "For IN THE TIME OF TROUBLE HE SHALL HIDE ME IN HIS PAVILION: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock (i.e., Saturn, Heaven).

***It doesn't say BEFORE the time of trouble, it says "IN THE TIME OF TROUBLE." Therefore, both Raptures are in the Tribulation. The First-Trump Rapture is soon after it begins. The Last-Trump Rapture ends it.

***The secret of his tabernacle is that the altar represents Earth, the Holy Place (two cubes standing for two spheres that would fit the two cubes) represents Mars and Jupiter, and the Holy of Holies (another cube) represents the third Heaven, Saturn.

Paul in Second Thessalonians 2:1 tells us, “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.” The phrase “gathering together” comes from the Greek word ‘episunagoge’, which means “an assembly”.

The Feast of Trumpets, through careful study depicts nothing less than the return of Jesus Christ for His Church at the last trump, just before God pours His wrath and judgment on a sinful and Christ rejecting world...

***The Last-Trump Rapture is on the Feast of Trumpets. It is after the Day of God's Wrath has begun, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8-10 impact Earth.

The Feast of Trumpets is also known as the coronation of the Messiah, when he will start reigning as king, thus the beginning of the “Day of the Lord”, which includes the Tribulation....

***The great and terrible Day of the Lord is only one literal day, the Feast of Trumpets, that ends the Tribulation. According to Dan. 12:1,2, it is a day like no other. It is the day Jesus is crowned KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. It is the day of the "general assembly" (Heb. 12:23) of all saints in Heaven, wise virgins gathered from one end of Heaven to the other (Mt. 24:31), Tribulation saints gathered from Earth (Mark 13:27). It is also the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ. Saints in Heaven will receive their rewards while nonbelievers on Earth receive their punishment for their unbelief.

Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Joh 10:6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
Joh 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
Joh 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
Joh 10:13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Joh 10:19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Joh 10:20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
Joh 10:21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
Joh 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
Joh 10:23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

***Yes, we "SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION". I think we are in the Tribulation now, but not for long. I now expect the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE ON KISLEV 24 THIS YEAR. That will be the Eve of Hanukkah, which is the Feast of Lights and the Feast of the Dedication of the Temple. According to the present Jewish Calendar, that will be Dec. 11, 2009.

***However, the new crescent Moon was not sighted until Sept. 20, 2009. That would make Tishri 1 our Sept 21 instead of Sept. 19, 2009. It would also cause Kislev 24, 5770 to fall on Dec. 13 instead of Dec. 11 on God's calendar. Thus, the First-Trump Rapture may happen on my 81st birthday, Dec. 13, 2009, Maranatha.

***Jesus went to the Feast of the Dedication secretly. John 10:22,23 says, "And it was at Jerusalem THE FEAST OF THE DEDICATION, and it was winter. And JESUS WALKED IN THE TEMPLE in Solomon's porch." This year, the Feast of the Dedication will come before winter arrives.

***De 4:30,31 says, "When thou art iN TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, EVEN IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them."

***John 16:33 says, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. IN THE WORLD YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. "

***Rom 5:3-5 says, "And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that TRIBULATION WORKETH PATIENCE; nd patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us."

***Rom 8:35 says, "Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall TRIBULATION, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?"

***Rom 12:12 says, "Rejoicing in hope; PATIENT IN TRIBULATION; continuing instant in prayer;
Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Rom 12:15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
Rom 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

***1Th 3:3 says, "That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
1Th 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, WE TOLD YOU BEFORE THAT WE SHOULD SUFFER TRIBULATION; EVEN AS IT CAME TO PASS, AND YE KNOW."

***I had to be in the Tribulation to finally realize that the First-Trump Rapture would happen some time AFTER it began, but I had wondered what Rev 1:9 and 2.10 meant. We now know what kind of financial meltdown will cause the world to accept a new form of money. Sad to say, things are going to get worse, not better. Please get us out of here, Lord.

When? Probably on my birthday, Dec. 13. Kislev 24 according to the Moon.

Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: What does Jesus illustrate when He washes the disciple's feet?

I want to suggest an interpretation of Jesus washing the disciple's feet in John 13:4-17 apart from the often heard link to 1 John 1:9.

Jesus' washing of the disciple's feet is an illustration of a future event described in Isaiah 49:23.

Kings shall be your foster fathers, And their queens your nursing mothers; They shall bow down to you with their faces to the earth, And lick up the dust of your feet. Then you will know that I am the LORD, For they shall not be ashamed who wait for Me.” Isaiah 49:23 KJV

Isaiah 49:20-23 seems to be talking about the Gentiles, specifically the end time Church, sharing the gospel with the Jews and bringing them to faith in Christ. A very touching passage.

Today, the unbelieving Jews are not preaching Christ. i.e. They are not having any spiritual children. Others are having them for them. i.e. The Gentiles are witnessing to the Jews and many of those Jews have been placing their faith in Jesus. But, the unbelieving Jews don't acknowledge them. In a little while, at the end of the tribulation, when the nation of Israel accepts Jesus, they will realize that there are actually a lot of Jews who have believed in Jesus. The Jews will admit that for a long time they were spiritually barren and thus wonder who led their people to Jesus.

The children you will have, After you have lost the others, Will say again in your ears, ‘ The place is too small for me; Give me a place where I may dwell.’ Then you will say in your heart, ‘ Who has begotten these for me, Since I have lost my children and am desolate, A captive, and wandering to and fro? And who has brought these up? There I was, left alone; But these, where were they?’” Isa 49:20-21 KVJ

Thus says the Lord GOD: “ Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations, And set up My standard for the peoples; They shall bring your sons in their arms, And your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders; Kings shall be your foster fathers, And their queens your nursing mothers; They shall bow down to you with their faces to the earth, And lick up the dust of your feet. Then you will know that I am the LORD, For they shall not be ashamed who wait for Me.” Isa 49:22-23 KJV

What a marvelous passage. Is it not saying that the Gentiles will witness to the Jews and bring some of them to faith? (We have many Messianic Jews in the NY/NJ area). I'm told that most Jews are brought to faith in Jesus by a Gentile, not by a fellow Jew.

Those Jewish believers should have been the spiritual children of the Jewish nation - had it accepted Jesus. But, instead they have been birthed by Gentiles and "sheltered" in churches.

When the Jews "wake up" they will be amazed to find that there are so many of their people who already believe in Jesus.

The action that Jesus was performing in John 13:4-17 was an illustration of a future event.

Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. John 13:7 KJV

Jesus as head of the Church, representing the church (in context the Gentiles vs. the Jewish nation), was "serving" the Jewish Nation, an event the End Time Church will perform. And that service is to show them that Jesus is their Messiah.

Peter did not understand and asked for his whole body to be washed. But, the disciples, as representatives of the future Jewish nation, were already clean, i.e. The Jews know the one true God. They didn't have to bath their whole body. They didn't have to convert from another religion. They only have to wash their feet. i.e They only have to accept Jesus to be "completely" clean.

Jesus said they should wash each other's feet. i.e. The Jews, after accepting the knowledge of Jesus, should share Him with their Jewish brothers.

If they won't hear and accept the gospel of Jesus - they have no part in Him. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. John 13:8 KJV

The church who is serving the Jews (in context his lord) is not greater than the Jew. i.e. The Christian Gentile does not replace the Jew, but rather completes God's great plan and design for man. No replacement theology! The church is not Israel as many churches still try to preach. ...The servant is not greater than his lord...John 13:16b KJV.

And the Jew is not greater than the church. ...neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. John 13:16b KJV

Jesus washing the disciple's feet is an illustration of an end time event the church will do to the Jewish nation. They are clean - they know the one true God - they only need to hear about and accept Jesus the Messiah.

There is a great blessing when you share Christ with the Jews. If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. John 13:17 KJV

Blessings on you.

My reply

Let's examine the scriptures and see who is being addressed.

John 13:8-10 says, "Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, HE (i.e., anyone, Jew or Gentile) that is washed (i.e., had his old sins washed away when he was saved) needeth not save to wash his feet (i.e., use I John 1:9 and confess sins committed after being saved), but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all" (referring to Judas Iscariot).

Let's also see what Peter said ln 2 Peter 1:1-11: "Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to THEM (i.e., the brethren, believers, Jew or Gentile) THAT HAVE OBTAINED LIKE PRECIOUS FAITH WITH US through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us (the brethren, Jew or Gentile) all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious PROMISES: THAT BY THESE YE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATIRE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he (Jew or Gentile) that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off (i.e., Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins (when he first accepted Christ). Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

To me, it still seems to apply to believers, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. The Church is made up of borh Jews and Gentiles.

> > The Jews know the one true God. They didn't have to bath their whole body. They didn't have to convert from another religion. They only have to wash their feet. i.e They only have to accept Jesus to be "completely" clean.

I think we are washed of our sins when we first believe in Christ. At that point, all our old sins are forgiven. We are clean. But, afterward, when we sin, our feet are dirty. The only way to wash those sins away too is to confess them to God.

> > Jesus said they should wash each other's feet. i.e. The Jews, after accepting the knowledge of Jesus, should share Him with their Jewish brothers. > > If they won't hear and accept the gospel of Jesus - they have no part in Him.

The person that does not believe in Jesus is dirty all over, not just his feet.

I think foot washing between humans is a reminder that we have dirty feet. Jesus is the only one that can actually wash away our sins, and the way to bring that about is to confess our sins to Him. We have to let Jesus wash our feet.

Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. John 13:8 KJV

Matthew could not have washed Peter's feet and forgiven him his sins. Only Jesus can do that. Agape

Arabs won't sit with FM, summit nixed

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1256557965181&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
Oct. 26, 2009

A summit of Mediterranean states planned to be held in Istanbul in November was canceled on Monday after Egypt and other Arab states refused to sit round the same table with Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman....

The planned meeting of the Euro-Mediterranean Ministers of Foreign Affairs in Turkey is part of the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership, formerly known as the Barcelona Process, which was re-launched in 2008 as the Union for the Mediterranean. The Partnership includes all 27 member states of the European Union, along with 16 partners across the Southern Mediterranean and the Middle East.

PROF. WEISS AT RIGHTIST EVENT: BUILD THIRD TEMPLE IMMEDIATELY

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3795297,00.html

In wake of Muslim riots at Temple Mount, leading rabbis, rightists call on Israel 'not to capitulate to Palestinian violence.'...

In a move that may heighten tensions in the capital, the Organization for Human Rights on the Temple Mount (OHRTM) called for Jews to visit the east Jerusalem compound, which houses the al-Aqsa Mosque.

During a rightist event held in Jerusalem Sunday evening, just hours after Muslims rioted in and around the Temple Mount amid reports that Jewish extremists were planning to visit the site, Professor Hillel Weiss said, "THE (THIRD) TEMPLE MUST BE BUILT NOW. THE MOSQUES DO NOT HAVE TO BE DESTROYED IN ORDER FOR US TO DO THIS."

My comment

That's true. The Temple was built between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. The back of it lined up with the Wailing Wall.

Asteroid explosion over Indonesia raises fears about Earth's defences

By Tom Chivers, 27 Oct 2009
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/6444895/Asteroid-explosion-over-Indonesia-raises-fears-about-Earths-defences.html

An asteroid that exploded in the Earth’s atmosphere with the energy of three Hiroshima bombs this month has reignited fears about our planet’s defences against space impacts.

The asteroid was around 20 meters across and hit the Earth's atmosphere at 45,000mph Photo: GETTY IMAGES
On 8 October, the rock crashed into the atmosphere above South Sulawesi, Indonesia. The blast was heard by monitoring stations 10,000 miles away...

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