Pro and Con 1520

Posted 12-7-09

Three meercats and a friend

Wow! I'm in California, and the California Nebula has a cross of stars going out from it. The Pleiades stars also form a cross

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap091103.html

Was Dec. 9-11, 1917 (Kislev 24-26, 5678) prophetic?

By Marilyn Agee

Regarding the taking of Jerusalem Dec. 9-11, 1517: Sir Edmund Allenby wrote, "On the 7th the weather broke, and for three days rain was almost continuous....

"...serious effect of the rain was to jeopardize the supply arrangements by rendering the roads almost impassable...

(On Dec. 9, Kislev 24) ..."the advance was resumed. The Turks had withdrawn during the night, and the London troops and yeomanry, driving back rearguards, occupied a line across the Nablus-Jerusalem road four miles north of Jerusalem, while Welsh troops occupied a position east of Jerusalem across the Jericho road.

"These operations isolated Jerusalem, and at about noon (on Dec. 9) the enemy sent out a parlementaire and surrendered the city"....

"I entered the city officially at noon, December 11th, with a few of my staff, the commanders of the French and Italian detachments, the heads of the political missions, and the Military Attaches of France, Italy, and America.

"The procession was all afoot, and at Jaffa gate I was received by the guards representing England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, New Zealand, India, France, and Italy. The population received me well."

"Guards have been placed over the holy places. My Military Governor is in contact with the acting custodians and the Latin and Greek representatives. The Governor has detailed an officer to supervise the holy places.

"The Mosque of Omar and the area around it have been placed under Mostlem control, and a military cordon of Mohammedan officers and soldiers has been established around the mosque.

"Orders have been issued that no non-Moslem is to pass within the cordon without permission of the Military Governor and the Moslem in charge."
"Primary Documents - Sir Edmund Allenby on the Fall of Jerusalem, 9 December 1917"
Source: Records of the Great War, Vol. V, ed. Charles F. Horne, National Alumni 1923
http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/jerusalem_allenby1.htm

1917 + 50 = 1967, the year of the Six-Day War, and 1967 + 50 = 2017. Could this 100-year span be the end times? If so, 2017 would be the outer limit of the time of the end. All end-time dates would fit within that span.

Does 2017 as a limit suggest anything else? Yes.

The shocking paragraph below is from "Demographic Euthanasia," by John Christian Ryter (http://www.jonchristianryter.com/2009/091101.html)

"There will be radical changes in the system before 2017 because that's "D-Day" for Social Security—Deficit Day. In 2017, unless the government can find about 45 million new middle class tax payers to fill the deficit, or quadruple your FICA taxes, that will be the year Uncle Sam pays out more in Social Security benefits than it takes in. This problem will be severe enough to collapse not only the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Reserve System, but the interlocking central banks of the industrialized world as well."

Sunday, Dec. 9, 1917 was Kislev 24, 5678

Regarding Kislev 24, Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid (conceived), consider it. Is the seed yet in the barn? (slang for is she pregnant) yea (yes, Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the OLIVE TREE, hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you."

The last day of the olive harvest is Kislev 24.

The next day, Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, the Feast of Dedication (of the cleansed Temple), the feast that Jesus attended secretly, begins.

Kislev 24, 5770 will be Dec. 11, 2009.

We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Will Jesus come secretly to catch up the Bride of Christ on the anniversary of the date he was conceived, Kislev 24, which is our Friday, Dec. 11, 2009, the anniversary of General Allenby's entering Jerusalem on foot? It sure seems possible.

Kislev 24, according to the sighting of the new crescent Moon, will be Dec. 13.

According to the actual sighting of the new crescent Moon just after sunset on Sept. 20, 2009, the Jewish New Year Day would have been Sept. 21 instead of Sept. 19, 2009, as on the present-day Jewish Calendar. Thus, the First-Trump Rapture could take place on Kislev 24, 5770, December 13, 2009, my 81st birthday. Wow! what a birthday present that would be

Is that why there are 2 days listed for the taking of Jerusalem in 1917, Dec. 9, the actual date the Turks left, and Dec. 11, the official date Allenby took the city? It sure looks like it to me.

It may also be significant that the official date was on the third day, counted by Jewish Inclusive Reckoning. As Jesus was raised on the third day, the dead in Christ may be raised on the third day.

Of the day when Jesus made water wine, John 2:1,2 says, "And the THIRD DAY there was a marriage in Cana (possession) of Galilee (wheel; revolution) ; and the mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage."

In Mt 26:29, Jesus said, "I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." That will be the day the Bride of Christ is caught up.

Good news

By Marilyn Agee

We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. As a type, it is interesting to find out that Solomon finished the Temple in 7 years, in the month of Cheshvan. Also, Noah entered the Ark and the Lord closed the door on Cheshvan 17.

It rained for 40 days. During this time, the Ark floated free of the ground. Forty days ends on Dec. 11, Kislev 24, the Eve of Hanukkah (or Dec 13, my birthday, since the New Moon of Tishri was sighted on Sept. 20, making Tishri 1 Sept. 21 instead of Sept 19).

Haggai 2:15,18,19 says, "And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward (maal, on high), from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD... Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation (1Co 3:11, 'other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ') of the LORD'S temple was laid (founded, i.e., conceived), consider it. Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn (i.e., womb)? yea (yes, he was conceived on Kislev 24), as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the OLIVE TREE, hath not brought forth (NASA, lifted up, been taken up, i.e., been raptured): from this day will I bless you."

The olive harvest ends on Kislev 24, the Eve of Hanukkah. That sure sounds like a good day for the Rapture.

Incoming e-mail, Re: bright light about noon

Marilyn,
Clay wrote: remember MJ Agee's testimony - how she saw a bright light highlighting a certain verse in her Bible years ago and that's how she got started. it may have been a verse in Job. can't remember.

I remember reading this too. Where did you write it?

Was it referring to:Acts 22:6-7 "About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7 I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, `Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?' " NIV

It was 12:25 P.M. when the bright cicular light fell on November 19th of my calendar.

My reply

The verse was Jer 50:2.

Tired from typing all day about the three Babylons on my husband's old portable typewriter set on a rickity card table in the corner of the kitchen, I bounced down across my bed in the darkened room (lined draperies closed) at twilight with my closed Bible in my hand saying to myself something like "Why am I doing this." Abruptly, I got an answer in no uncertain words.

I found myself facing my open Bible with a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2.

It said, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

Bel is the Baal of the Babylonians, a Satanic deity. Merodach is a Satanic Babylonian idol.

Reverberating through time, the ultimate manifestation will be when the Satan-possessed son of perdition, the False Prophet, places an idol in the Temple and sits there pretending to be God.

2 Thess 2:3,4 says, "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the Day of the Lord, i.e., the Day of God's Wrath) shall not come, except there come a falling away (a departing, i.e., the First Trump Rapture) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

I have been studying the Bible and writing ever since.

There are three Babylons, Nimrod's Babel, Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon II and the False Prophet's Babylon III, which is to be obliterated by the impact of Satan's asteroid named Wormwood. Agape

Britain betrayed as hated EU treaty becomes law

By TOM NEWTON-DUNN, 4 Nov 09
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2712808.ece

THE last hope of blocking a new European constitution was snuffed out last night - the final kick in the teeth after Labour's betrayal of Britain. The Czech Republic became the last EU nation to sign the Lisbon Treaty, which will now become law.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2712808.ece#ixzz0Vx4el6EN

Incoming e-mail, Re: Agreement from hell

This sure sounds like a good candidate!!

Barak: Trip to USA for Drafting Agreement With the PA
by Nissan Ratzlav-Katz, 11-3-09

(IsraelNN.com) Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu are traveling to the United States this week to meet with senior White House officials in an effort to draft an agreement to be offered to the Fatah-led half of the Palestinian Authority, under Mahmoud Abbas. Such an agreement, Barak said Tuesday, will include a "viable Palestinian State" and the end of Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria.

According to Barak, the Obama administration will be expected to promote the agreed-upon draft to Abbas, in an effort to kick-start Israel-PA talks. More Israel news: http://www.israelnationalnews.com:80/News/News.aspx/134198

My reply

In Judea. Wow. I don't know how to take that. Do they mean to share Jerusalem, and get permission to build the Temple in exchange? Anyway, the time of the First-Trump Rapture seems to be approaching.

My reply to an incoming email

I do think we have entered the 70th week of Daniel.

> > 3. Why the Rapture will be the same time as the Sudden Destruction--reasons all directly from Scripture.

I don't think that the First-Trump Rapture will be at the same time as the Sudden Destruction, but the Last-Trump Rapture will be on the Day of God's Wrath, but just before the Sudden Destruction hits unbelievers left on Earth. Concerning the First-Trump Rapture, Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. As a type, it is super interesting to find out that Solomon finished the Temple in 7 years, in the month of Cheshvan. Also, Noah entered the Ark and the Lord closed the door on Cheshvan 17. That's coming up on Nov. 4 (or 6, according to the Moon).

In Noah's day, it rained for 40 days. By this time, the Ark had floated free of the ground. Another 40 days ends on Dec. 11, Kislev 24 (or 13 according to the NYD Moon being late) the Eve of Hanukkah.

Dec. 13 is interesting to me, because it is my birthday. It is especially interesting since our son David's birthday was on Crucifixion Day in 30 AD and our daughter's birthday was on Pentecost in 30 AD.

Haggai 2:15,18,19 (KJV) says, "And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward (maal, on high), from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD... Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation (1Co 3:11, 'other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ') of the LORD'S temple was laid (founded, i.e., conceived), consider it. Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn (slang for is a woman pregnant)? yea (yes, Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the OLIVE TREE, hath not brought forth (NASA, lifted up, been taken up, i.e., been raptured): from this day will I bless you." The olive harvest ends on Kislev 25, Hanukkah, all the more reason to expect the First-trump Rapture on Kislev 24. Agape

The olive harvest that will end at Hanukkah has begun in Israel.

Settlers clash with Palestinian security threat' olive growers
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1123960.html
Oct 27, 2009

Residents of the settlement of Shvut Rachel clashed with Palestinians picking olives in the northern West Bank on Tuesday, after the settlers held a march to protest the "security threat" posed by the harvest.

McCain: Why we can -- and must -- win the war in Afghanistan

By John McCain, Special to CNN, October 28, 2009
http://www.cnn.com/2009/OPINION/10/28/mccain.afghan.war/index.html

The Seven Candles of the Menorah, Seven Planets in a row?

http://www.nazarite.net/proof/third-temple.html

On May 7, 2000, Venus, Mercury, Sun, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, and the Moon will all be in a straight line.

This is a unique event that has never occurred before! Josephus, in "Antiquities of the Jews", Book 3, Chapter VII:7, says that these seven represent the menorah (candlestick) in the Temple.

My comments

Josephus didn't specify which planets, but said the Sun was included. I take it that the lampstand represented the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. In II Cor. 12, we find out that Paul was caught up to the 3rd heaven. That would be Saturn: (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter and (3) Saturn.

In Eze. 1:26f, Ezekiel saw that the throne of God/Jesus had brightness all around it. That was Saturn's ring system.

Iran Says It Is Ready To Co-Operate On Nuclear Issues

Peter Walker and Robert Tait, 29 October
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/29/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-iran-nuclear-programme

Iranian president tells rally Tehran is prepared to work with International Atomic Energy Agency...

He said Iran was "ready to co-operate" on issues including the building of civil nuclear plants and fuel exchange and was prepared to work with the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the UN's nuclear watchdog.

Incoming e-mail

...According to Grant Jeffrey, the Battle of Gog Magog, which will be WWIII in Ezekie 38--39, will be on the 24th of Cheslev in some year. This would make the Sudden Destruction (nuclear weapons) and the Rapture very possibly THE VERY SAME DAY.

My reply

I think the war of Eze. 38:18-20 will be on the Day of God's Wrath, the Feast of Trumpets (Joel 1:14,15; 2:1-3) at the end of the 2300-day shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14).

On that day, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8-10 impact Earth, the Last-Trump Rapture, will take place, but when will the First-Trump Rapture take place?

The first Rapture (I Thess. 4:16,17) is as the days of Noah. The Last-Trump Rapture (I Cor. 15:51,52) is as the days of Lot. Sodom was destroyed by an asteroid impact on the same day Lot left it. Therefore, there will be a Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath, when Gog's army attacks Israel. I think that day will be the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015.

There are 7 months between the Gog and Magog War and the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). Since Jesus should return on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Jubilee Year, that means that the year 5776 would have to be a Leap Year with a 13th month. It is. Also, if Nisan 1, 5776 is a Jubilee Year, the previous year must be a Sabbatical Year. 5775 is a Sabbatical Year. It divides by 7 evenly.

To slide this farther into the future, we would have to go 7 more years for another Sabbatical Year, and the Jubilee would be the 8th year. Thus, it seems to me that Nisan 1, 5776 (April 9, 2016) will be the day of the Second Advent and the first day of the Jubilee Year. Thus, the Day of God's Wrath would be Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015.

Sept. 14, 2015 - 2300 days was May 29, 2009, last Pentecost. We seem overdue for the First Trump Rapture right now. How can we go another year?

What do we know about this Rapture? For one thing, Jesus set before the Philadelphian church an open door.

This Rapture is as the days of Noah. The Lord shut the door of the Ark on Cheshvan 17. Does that mean our door will close on Cheshvan 17, Nov. 4, 2009? That would be great. However, the Ark itself still sat on the ground that day.

It rained 40 days. By the end of the 40 days, the Ark had finally floated free of the ground. Does the day it floated up correlate with our Rapture? There is a good chance it does.

We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Lord uses types. Could the day Solomon completed the Temple be a clue to our Rapture day?

Solomon's temple was completed in 7 years. He started to build it on Iyar 2 and finished it in Cheshvan. I don't know the day. I searched on eSword for "seventeenth," but didn't find it.

Our Rapture could be in Cheshvan. Noah went into the Ark on Cheshvan 17. The Balfour Declaration was signed on Cheshvan 17 in our 1917. That's interesting.

However, Haggai 2:15,18,19 says, "And now, I pray you, consider from this day and UPWARD (suggesting the Rapture), from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD (i.e., the literal Temple to be built in Israel)...Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the FOUNDATION (Jesus, I Cor. 3:11) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. Is the seed yet in the barn (slang meaning is a woman pregnant)? yea (yes, Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the OLIVE TREE, hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you."

Maybe we are the olive harvest. It has now begun in Israel and will end on Kislev 24, the Eve of Hanukkah.

Jesus, the foundation of the Temple of the Holy Spirit, was conceived on Kislev 24, the Eve of Hanukkah. Is it possible that we, the rest of the Temple of the Holy Spirit, would be raptured on Kislev 24, Dec. 11, 2009?

In John 4:35, Jesus said, "Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest." If this was at Hanukkah, the Feast of Dedication of the Temple, the four months would be Teveth, Shevat, Adar and Nisan.

The new crescent Moon was sighted last Sept. 20, making Sept. 21 New Year Day. Thus, Dec. 11 would be Dec. 13, my birthday. That interests me, because our son David was born on Crucifixion Day in 30 AD, and our daughter was born on Pentecost in 30 AD. For me, that seems like a good watch date. Agape

A post on the Five Doves site, Re: "Jovial's Analysis of the Greek "Apostasy""

Kevin Heckle (30 Oct 2009)

Jovial's analysis from the Greek speaking people's perspective was ingenious and it proved beyond all reasonable doubt (at least for me) that the term 'falling away' (apostasia) in the KJV of II Thessalonians 2:3 does not describe the 'rapture'. While there may be other verses that describe the rapture preceding the revealing of the 'man of sin', this ain't the one.

2nd Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, AND that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

As I've said before, people try to put the word 'THEN' in between the 'falling away first' and that 'man of sin be revealed'. The Bible says 'AND' which means they coincide with each other. They also see the word 'first' as describing the ordinal event before the 'man of sin' can come onto the scene. 'Except there come a falling away FIRST' is qualifying the statement just before it, 'for that day shall not come'.

Paul explains to the Thessalonians, why that day (God's Judgment) had not come: It will follow the great apostasy coupled with (AND) the revealing of the antichrist. Those two things will happen FIRST, then the Judgment of God, which is the 'day of the Lord'. He comforted them with those words.
In Christ, Kevin Heckle

My reply

Why I think 2Thess 2:3 refers to the Departure

There are 2 translation errors in 2 Thess 2:1-3 in the KJV. Older Bible manuscripts were found after the KJV was translated that showed how it should have read.

The KJV says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the DAY OF CHRIST (should be DAY OF THE LORD, which is the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the shortened Tribulation) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY (should be DEPARTURE) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

There has always been apostacy. That would be hard to pin down to a certain time. The Rapture, or The Departure, would be recognized as having happened at a certain time.

The sequence of events

The First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:16,17 comes first, then the son of perdition (the False Prophet) is revealed. There are only two sons of perdition, Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet. Satan enters into both. After the False Prophet is revealed, the DAY OF THE LORD that is the DAY OF GOD'S WRATH arrives.

When the Day of God's Wrath arrives (Rev. 6:17), the Last-Trump Rapture (I Cor. 15:51,52) of the Tribulation saints takes place (Rev. 7:14). Then the asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 will impact Earth. The mountain sized one will hit the Mediterranean Sea (Eze. 39:20). Gog's army attacking Israel that day will be stopped. Only 1/6th of his forces will survive. The other "star" (Gr. aster) will obliterate Babylon, Iraq.

In 1526, Tyndale's translation got the 2nd part right. 2Th 2:3 says, "3 Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a DEPARTYNGE fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion."

In 1587, the Geneva Bible got the 2nd part right. 2Th 2:3 says, "Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTING first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition".

These early Bibles also said DEPARTING, Coverdale's (1535), Cranmer's (1539), The Great Bible (1539), Breecher's (1576), and Beza's (1583).

In 1833, the Webster Bible got the first part right. 2 Thess 2:2 says, "That you be not easily moved from your sense nor be terrified, neither by spirit nor by word nor by epistle. as sent from us, as if the DAY OF THE LORD were at hand."

The RSV got the DAY OF THE LORD right. It says, "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the DAY OF THE LORD has come."

The NIV got the first part right. it says, "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the DAY OF THE LORD has already come."

The ESV got the first part right. It says, "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the DAY OF THE LORD has come."

The NASB got the first part right. It says, "Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the DAY OF THE LORD has come."

The RSV got the first part right. It says, "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the DAY OF THE LORD has come."

The ASV got the first part right. It says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, touching the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him; to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the DAY OF THE LORD is just at hand".

I hope this helps you sort it out. Agape

My reply to a post on the Five Doves site

Re: "Ed P: New Stuff on the days of Noah this spring."
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2009/edp116.htm

> > how long was Noah in the ark with the door shut, waiting for the flood to start...why yes indeed, it was the exact same amount of time, 7 days

It began to rain the same day that the Lord closed Noah into the Ark.

Gen 7:11-13 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the SECOND MONTH, THE SEVENTEENTH DAY of the month, the SAME DAY WERE ALL THE FOUNTAINS OF THE GREAT DEEP BROKEN UP, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the SELFSAME DAY ENTERED NOAH, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark" Agape

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