Pro and Con 1570

Posted 10-2-2010

Swan Lake like you have never seen it before

http://www.nzwide.com/swanlake.htm

Comet Hartley October 9, 2010

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2010/danielm930-1.htm

It will be the brightest comet predicted for 2010...This will occur in October and it is emerging from Cassiopeia to traverse Perseus and then hit Auriga in October.

My comments

1st of Cheshvan, 5771 = Sat, 9 October 2010. This makes the comet look like a sign.

Cassiopeia represents the Bride of Christ sitting on a throne that belongs to the BRANCH, Christ. Perseus (the breaker) represents Christ, who will win over Satan (Al Gol, the eye in the Medusa head). A star is Al Genib, HE WHO CARRIES AWAY (i.e., suggesting the Rapture). Auriga (the shepherd) represents Christ who is the good shepherd.

My reply to a post on the Five Doves site

Oliver Thomas (29 Sep 2010)
Re: "Marilyn Agee (27 Sep 2010) Date of Jesus' Birth"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2010/olivert929.htm

After the Babylonian captivity, Persia took control and Haman, royal vizier to king Ahasuerus, planned to kill the Jews. Looks like we are getting a rerun of that today. It is reassuring to know that it didn't happen like Haman planned, and no other country had to rush in and save the Jews. They did it themselves.

> > Purim. It is a common misconception that this fast was accepted by the Jews for all future generations during the time of Esther, as it is stated in the Book of Esther: They had established for themselves and their descendants the matters of the fasts and their cry (Esther 9:31). This verse actually refers to the four fasts which relate to mourning for the Temple.

I'll take Scripture's word for that. Est 9:31,32 says, "To confirm these days of Purim in their times appointed, according as Mordecai the Jew and Esther the queen had enjoined them, and as THEY HAD DECREED FOR THEMSELVES AND FOR THEIR SEED, THE MATTERS OF THE FASTINGS and their cry. And the decree of Esther confirmed these matters of Purim; and it was written in the book."

> > Josephus: Antiquities of the Jews - Book XVII.XI.4.

You meant VI. 4. Whiston's note says that the eclipse was March 13 in the fourth year before the Christian era. I agree.

I have taken the Jan. 9, 1 BC eclipse into consideration. In the past, a friend who knew Earnest Martin gave me 3 of his books. I disagreed with Martin's placement of the Temple and his late date for Jesus' birth.

Herod the Great died in 4 BC. Herod Archelaus became ethnarch of Samaria, Judea and Edom from 4 BC to 6 AD. He was thought to be incompetent and Augustus made Herod Antipas ruler of Galilee from 6 to 39 AD.

Coins of Herod Antipas show his reign was 4 BC – 39 AD. Archelaus, Antipas and Philip all began their reign in 4 BC.

Here is my time chart. Everything dovetails together so we can have confidence that we have figured it out correctly.

Tishri 1, 3741, 20 BC, Herod got building supplies together
Tishri 1, 3742, 19 BC (1 TC) Temple Construction began
Tishri 1, 3743, 18 BC (2 TC)
Tishri 1, 3744, 17 BC, 3 TC)
Tishri 1, 3745, 16 BC (4 TC) Sabbatic Year
Tishri 1, 3746, 15 BC (5 TC)
Tishri 1, 3747, 14 BC (6 TC)
Tishri 1, 3748, 13 BC (7 TC)
Tishri 1, 3749, 12 BC (8 TC)
Tishri 1, 3750, 11 BC (9 TC)
Tishri 1, 3751, 10 BC (10 TC)
Tishri 1, 3752, 9 BC (11 TC) Sabbatic Year
Tishri 1, 3753, 8 BC (12 TC)
Tishri 1, 3754, 7 BC (13 TC)
Tishri 1, 3755, 6 BC (14 TC)
Tishri 1, 3756, 5 BC (15 TC) Sept 4, Jesus born, Moon under
--- Virgo's feet
Tishri 1, 3757, 4 BC (16 TC), Jesus 1, Herod died between
--- eclipse of March 13 and Passover, April 11 or 13
Tishri 1, 3758, 3 BC (17 TC) Jesus 2
Tishri 1, 3759, 2 BC (18 TC) Jesus 3, Sabbatic Year
Tishri 1, 3760, 1 BC (19 TC) Jesus 4
Tishri 1, 3761, 1 AD (20 TC) Jesus 5
Tishri 1, 3762, 2 AD (21 TC) Jesus 6
Tishri 1, 3763, 3 AD (22 TC) Jesus 7
Tishri 1, 3764, 4 AD (23 TC) Jesus 8
Tishri 1, 3765, 5 AD (24 TC) Jesus 9
Tishri 1, 3766, 6 AD (25 TC) Jesus 10, Sabbatic Year
Tishri 1, 3767, 7 AD (26 TC) Jesus 11
Tishri 1, 3768, 8 AD (27 TC) Jesus 12
Tishri 1, 3769, 9 AD (28 TC) Jesus 13
Tishri 1, 3770, 10 AD (29 TC) Jesus 14
Tishri 1, 3771, 11 AD (30 TC) Jesus 15
Tishri 1, 3772, 12 AD (31 TC) Jesus 16
Tishri 1, 3773, 13 AD (32 TC) Jesus 17, Sabbatic Year
Tishri 1, 3774, 14 AD (33 TC) Jesus 18
Tishri 1, 3775, 15 AD (34 TC) Jesus 19
Tishri 1, 3776, 16 AD (35 TC) Jesus 20
Tishri 1, 3777, 17 AD (36 TC) Jesus 21
Tishri 1, 3778, 18 AD (37 TC) Jesus 22
Tishri 1, 3779, 19 AD (38 TC) Jesus 23
Tishri 1, 3780, 20 AD (39 TC) Jesus 24, Sabbatic Year
Tishri 1, 3781, 21 AD (40 TC) Jesus 25
Tishri 1, 3782, 22 AD (41 TC) Jesus 26
Tishri 1, 3783, 23 AD (42 TC) Jesus 27
Tishri 1, 3784, 24 AD (43 TC) Jesus 28
Tishri 1, 3785, 25 AD (44 TC) Jesus 29
Tishri 1, 3786, 26 AD (45 TC) Jesus 30, baptized near B DAY
--- 15th yr of Tiberius, who became Co-Rex 12 AD
--- (coin minted 13 AD has Tiberius one side, Augustus on
--- other)
Tishri 1, 3787, 27 AD (46 TC) Sabbatic Year, Jesus read
--- Isa. 61:1,2 on Day of Atonement to announce the Jubilee
--- that would start the following Nisan 1,
--- Nisan 14, 1st Passover of Jesus' ministry
Tishri 1, 3788, 28 AD, Jubilee Year,
--- Nisan 14, 2nd Passover of Jesus' ministry
Tishri 1, 3789, 29 AD
--- Nisan 14, 3rd Passover of Jesus' ministry
Tishri 1, 3790, 30 AD
--- Nisan 13, Apr 6 (Julian), Thursday, Jesus crucified on
--- Preparation of the Passover
--- Nisan 14, Apr 7 (Julian) Fri, 4th Passover of his ministry
--- Nisan 15, Apr 8 (Julian) Sat, Feast of Unleavened Bread
Nisan 16, Apr 9 (Julian) Sun, Feast of Firstfruits, Jesus
--- resurrected

The three days and nights in the heart of the Earth were Thur (day), Fri (night then day), Sat (night then day), and Sun (night).

Nisan 1, 5776, Sabbath, Apr 9, 2016, Second Advent, seems to be on the anniversary of the Resurrection on our calendar. Mt 12:8: "the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day."

Luke 6:5: "the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath."

Everything fits. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Cheshvan 17

You're onto something, but while your page says (correctly) that the judgment began on Cheshvan 17, Noah and his family were secured in the ark with the door shut seven (or perhaps eight) days previously. So on 9 or 10 Cheshvan the door was shut, and on Cheshvan 17 the floods began. See Gen. 7:10.
And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were on the earth.

So if this maps to our deliverance from world-wide judgment, it seems rather believable that we would be out of here on or about October 17-18.

Cheshvan 11 Methuselah died.
Cheshvan 12 Yitzak Rabin died.

We may be just three weeks from glory.

Also of interest is this "covenant with the many" that will be confirmed. Many automatically assume that "the Antichrist" will confirm a peace covenant of some sort with Israel, and many even think this covenant has something to do with the Oslo Accords.

But in the Genesis account we see a covenant with "the many" (and I don't believe the descriptor "the many" is ever used to refer to the Jews). After the fierce judgment was over, God made a covenant with all the survivors (Genesis 9:11, 15) "every living creature of all flesh." That sounds like a pretty good "the many" to me. We don't know how the bad guys are going to "confirm" this, but maybe it's more like "reassure" or perhaps "remind." It will probably be part of the great deception, but the focus is on "the many" and not on the Jews. Write on!

My reply

Noah went into the Ark, and the Lord shut him in on Cheshvan 17, the SAME DAY IT BEGAN TO RAIN and "THE WINDOWS (or dove cots) OF HEAVEN WERE OPENED." To me, that would be the most likely day for the Rapture.

Gen. 7:6,7 and 7:11-13 are parallel passages.
Both took place when the Flood was upon the Earth.

Hebrew doesn't use the verb "hayah," "to be" unless it is necessary to denote a changing condition. When "hayah" is used, it literally means "became," showing that there is a change. When hayah is not used, "was" is in italics and is to be supplied by the reader. It means "was" with no change.

For instance, Gen 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was (hayah, became, showing that there was a change) without form, and void; and darkness was (hayah, became, showing the change) upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was (lit., became, showing change) light."

Gen 7:6-16 says, "And Noah was (hayah, lit. became, denoting change, i.e., it was his birthday, when his age changed from 599 to 600) six hundred years old when the flood of waters was (hayah, became, showing change) upon the earth. And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were (hayah, became) upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month (Cheshvan), the seventeenth day of the month, the same day (Cheshvan 17) were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and THE WINDOWS (shelach, windows or dove cots) OF HEAVEN WERE OPENED. And the rain was (hayah, became) upon the earth forty days and forty nights. In the selfsame day (Cheshvan 17) ENTERED NOAH, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, INTO THE ARK; They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD SHUT HIM IN" (on Cheshvan 17).

Enoch was a prophet, and evidently received a prophecy from God when he named his son Methuselah. The exact meaning of the name is a bit uncertain. It may mean, “When he dies, judgment” or “When he is dead it shall be sent," meaning the Flood. (Cornwall and Smith, Exhaustive Dictionary of Bible Names) We know that Methuselah lived 969 years, and that when he died, the Flood was sent.

Noah was told that it would start to rain after 7 days. This suggests that Methuselah died 7 days before the Flood. That's when the Flood would be sent.

Maybe in our days, Ariel Sharon will die 7 days before the Rapture. That could be Cheshvan 10, October 18. At that time, Saturn will be the only morning star in the sky from about 2:40 AM to Sunup.

> > We may be just three weeks from glory.

I hope it will be Oct. 25.

My friend in Pensacola just called with good news. Both of her parents are dead, but she dreamed that her mom just died. Her dad was there, alive, and said to her, "The Rapture is really really soon." That's fantastic.

> > the many

I take that to be the UN. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Cheshvan 17

Thank you, Marilyn, for your explanation. What an extremely exciting, yet sobering, day to be a Biblical watchman! Perhaps we will receive a 7-day warning on Oct. 18--20, and the Rapture/Sudden Destruction of Oct. 25--27. There are so very many signs pointing to both of these two time frames. Maranatha! Ron

"Date of Jesus' Birth," part 2, my reply to Steve Fink on the Five Doves site

Re: Steve Fink (22 Sep 2010) "The Date of Jesus' Birth"
http://www.nuggetnetreview.com/m-date-of-Jesus-birth.htm

> > If the above logic is correct Jesus was born on Tishri 15, 4 B.C.

I have some more material on this subject you might be interested in.

Tishri 15, 4 BC would make Jesus born after Herod died near Passover in 4 BC. It had to be before Herod died.

Josephus said, "...Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon. (8)" (Ant. XVII.VII.4) That eclipse was March 13, 4 BC. Jesus had to be born before that.

As you know, I think Jesus was born Tishri 1, 3757, Sept 4, 5 BC.

There were lots of signs in the heavens, the greatest was a Nova in Capricorn. It helps to look up the dates of these signs.

On Feb 25, 6 BC, in PISCES, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn came to within 8 degrees of each other. This only happens at 800-year intervals. I consider that a sign.

THE BIG SIGN: A NOVA PRECEDED JESUS' BIRTH IN 5 BC

In March and April, 5 BC, before Jesus was born in September, there was HUGE SIGN, a NOVA, a NEW STAR IN THE NORTHERN PART OF CAPRICORN. It was said to have been visible for 70 days.

"Chinese astronomers recorded a nova in Capricorn that was visible during March-April, 5 BC. ("STAR OF BETHLEHEM," by Ronald E. Mickle:
http://www.denverastrosociety.org/dfiles/mickle/StarofBethlehem.pdf)

That dying goat and lively fish tell us that Jesus died and was resurrected.

The Hebrew name of CAPRICORN is GEDI, meaning the kid and cut off. Jesus was cut off out of the land of the living (Isa. 53:8), then resurrected. The Greek word for fish, Icythus, forms the acrostic where the letters are taken to mean Jesus Christ God's Son Saviour.

God named the stars to tell a story, called the Gospel in the Stars. Psa 147:4 says, "He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names."

The brightest star in Capricorn is in Arabic AL GEDI, meaning the Goat, and the goat is dying. Another star is AL DABIH. In Arabic, it means THE SACRIFICE SLAIN. The second brightest star, DENEB AL GEDI, means in Arabic that THE LORD OR SACRIFICE COMETH. That tells us plainly that the Nova was a sign that THE LORD COMETH.

The NOVA, sign of his coming, was in February, 5 BC. Therefore, I think Jesus was born after that, on Sept 4, 5 BC. Herod died after that, near Passover of 4 BC. Everything fits.

HEROD'S REASON FOR KILLING BETHLEHEM'S MALES TWO YEARS OLD AND UNDERThe wise men could have told Herod that they saw the triple conjunctions two years ago. That would work out right. If they referred to the triple conjunction of 7 BC, Jesus would have been born in 5 BC.

BC 4: THE FAST OF ESTHER PRECEDED THE LUNAR ECLIPSE AFTER WHICH HEROD DIED
In Ant. XVII. VI. 4 (also see Wars II:1:3), Josephus said of Herod, "he deprived Matthius of the high priesthood...and made Joazar...high priest in his stead. Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, THAT VERY DAY WHICH THE JEWS OBSERVE AS A FAST (THE FAST OF ESTHER, Adar 13, Esther 4:14)...But (the next day, Purim, Adar 14) Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition, with his companions, alive. AND THAT VERY NIGHT THERE WAS AN ECLIPSE OF THE MOON."

That eclipse was on March 13, 4 BC. NO OTHER ECLIPSE IS POSSIBLE, BECAUSE A FAST DAY DID NOT PRECEDE IT.

HEROD DIED BETWEEN THAT LUNAR ECLIPSE AND PASSOVER

Josephus mentioned the eclipse. He said, "And that very night there was an eclipse of the moon. But now Herod's distemper greatly increased..." (Ant. XVII. VI. 4,5). He told of Herod's death in Ant. XVII. VIII. 1 and mentioned the Passover in XVII. IX. 3, saying, "Now, upon the approach of that FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, which the law of their fathers had appointed for the Jews at this time, which feast is called the PASSOVER..."

Herod the Great (ruled 37 BCE - 4 BCE)
Herod Archelaus (ruled 4 BCE - 6 CE)
Herod Antipas (ruled 4 CE - 40 CE)
Herod Philip II (ruled 4 CE - 34 CE)

In 5 BC, Cyrenius was a leader in Syria, probably a legate, a judge, who was put in charge of conducting a registration, or census, for taxation purposes. In 6 AD, after becoming governor of Syria, he conducted another registration, so the one in 5 BC was the first, and the one in 6 AD was the second.

"'We also know from an inscription called the “Lapis Venetus” (left) that Publius Sulpicius Quirinius, legate of the emperor in Syria, carried out a census for Augustus, although the date is not given'...Although it cannot be proved beyond all doubt, it seems reasonable that the census described in Lapis Venetus was the same one that was ordered by Augustus in 8 BC.

"It is also a safe assumption that Augustus Caesar ordered the census long before it was to be executed, perhaps several years, to allow the Imperial burocracy time to promulgate, plan and execute the census successfully in all corners of the Roman Empire, however distant."...

THERE WERE LOTS OF SIGNS IN THE HEAVENS BEFORE JESUS WAS BORN, TOPPED OFF BY THE NOVA

"Notes on the Visibility of the 5BC Chinese Star"
(http://www.astrosurf.com/comets/cometas/Star/Visibility_Star.pdf)

"The chronicle, the “Ch'ien-han-shu” states that: "In the second year of the period of Ch'ien-p'ing, second month, a hui-hsing appeared in Ch'ien-niu for more than 70 days...

"The chronicle gives a fixed position over two and a half months, not reasonable if the object really was a comet...

"Sometimes, “hui-hsing” was used to describe bright novae such as Tycho’s Star....

"Had the Magi set out for Bethlehem from Jerusalem at dawn around this date, the Star would have been directly in front of them on the road."

"Have Astronomers Found the Star of Bethlehem?" By Bruce Gerig
http://epistle.us/articles/star.html

"Kidger believes that the Star must have been a really bright nova, with special attention drawn to it by the striking heavenly signs that preceded it. The whole sequence included: (1) three conjunctions (pairings) of Jupiter and Saturn, in the zodiacal region of Pisces, in 7 B.C.; (2) Jupiter and Saturn then joined by Mars in Pisces, in early 6 B.C.; (3) two pairings in Pisces on February 20, 5 B.C., of Jupiter with the Moon and of Mars with Saturn; and finally (4) a bright, unexpected nova – the object observed by the Chinese and Koreans in Aquila/Capricornus in the spring of 5...B.C....

"The first sign was a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn, in 7 B.C. On May 29, the two planets passed a degree apart in the constellation of Pisces – a sight the Magi had seen many times before and so it probably was not too exciting. Nonetheless, they viewed Jupiter as a royal planet and Pisces as a constellation associated with the Jews. Then, on September 29, the two planets came together again in Pisces, moving in opposite directions but close by each other in the sky, separated by a distance a little larger than on May 29. A third time, on December 4, the planets converged again, separated by more than a degree from north to south. So three times in eight months, the royal planet and Saturn had met in the Jew's constellation. But what was the significance of Saturn? Herod was an old man now, hanging on to life; and perhaps Saturn, regarded as an evil planet, pointed to the demise of this detested puppet leader of Judea. The Magi must have pondered the significance of all this.20

The second sign was a massing of Jupiter, Saturn and Mars in Pisces, in February, 6 B.C. As Jupiter and Saturn slipped down in the evening sky toward the horizon in February, 6 B.C., the Maji noticed Mars entering the constellation of Pisces and coming toward Jupiter and Saturn, until it was separated by only 8 degrees in the sky."

"Kidger believes that the Star must have been a really bright nova, with special attention drawn to it by the striking heavenly signs that preceded it. The whole sequence included: (1) three conjunctions (pairings) of Jupiter and Saturn, in the zodiacal region of Pisces, in 7 B.C.; (2) Jupiter and Saturn then joined by Mars in Pisces, in early 6 B.C.; (3) two pairings in Pisces on February 20, 5 B.C., of Jupiter with the Moon and of Mars with Saturn; and finally (4) a bright, unexpected nova – the object observed by the Chinese and Koreans in Aquila/Capricornus in the spring of 5...B.C."

Inscriptions discovered by Sir William Ramsay show he was "governor" in Syria both before and after the birth of Jesus. The eminent archaeologist Jerry Vandeman found a coin with the name of Quirinius on it in small writing. This coin places him as proconsul of Syria and Cilicia from 11 BC until the death of Herod. The census would have taken place under the reign of Quirinius."

The NOVA appeared in the east several hours before sunrise. This could be the star that caused the wise men to travel to Jerusalem. It winked out, however, before the wise men arrived in Jerusalem.

That trip probably took about 4 months. The wise men would have seen the star only part of the time. This could help us understand why they asked Herod where he that was born King of the Jews was located.

The star that went before them to Bethlehem and stood over the exact house seems to have been God's miracle, like the Shekinah Glory that led the Israelites in the wilderness. I don't see how any star far up in the sky could point out one house among many.

In "Bethlehem and the Tax Census"
(http://members.aol.com/JAlw/tax_census.html), Joseph Alward said that "an inscription found on a stone (the Lapis Tiburtinus)...refers to someone who was a governor, AGAIN, of Syria.

After review, I still think Jesus was born Tishri 1, 3757, September 4, 5 BC. I see no way around it. He was baptized near Tishri 1 in 26 AD, when he was about 30 (Luke 3:23). The temple had been under construction 46 years at the first passover of his ministry in 27 AD. He was crucified on the preparation day for the 4th Passover, Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790, April 6, 30 AD.

TISHRI 1, BECAUSE THE MOON WAS UNDER VIRGO'S FEET

Rev 12:1-5 tells us how the sky looked on Tishri 1. It says, "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (Virgo) clothed with the sun, and the MOON UNDER HER FEET, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars (Corona Borealis): And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman (Virgo) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child (the seed of the woman) as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child (Jesus), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God (on Ascension Day), and to his throne."

CALENDAR CONVERTERS

Calendar Converters are not accurate that far back, but we can use them to get something close, then go to the Astronomy Programs to zero in on a date when the Moon was under Virgo's feet. In those days, the Hebrew Calendar Tishri 1 was set by sighting the new Crescent Moon.

CALENDAR PROGRAM BALLPARK DATES

Tishri 1, 3755, Sept 13, 7 BC, Mon (Julian)
Tishri 1, 3756, Sept 24, 6 BC. Thur (Julian)
Tishri 1, 3757, Sept 8, 5 BC, Sat (Julian)

YOURSKY DATES WHEN THE NEW CRESCENT MOON WAS UNDER VIRGO'S FEET

Astronomy programs insert a zero year for ease of calculating, so we have to set them for -4 when we want 5 BC, etc.

I have pictures of these from YourSky, and will post them on my next Pro and Con. The Sun shone on Virgo, and the new Crescent Moon was under her feet in all three dates listed below.

Sky above Jerusalem Fri -6 (=7 BC) Sep 25 15:30 UTC

Sky above Jerusalem Wed -5 (=6 BC) Sep 15 15:40 UTC

Sky above Jerusalem Mon -4 (=5 BC) Sep 4 15:55 UTC

However, the more I look into it, the more convinced I am that the Sept. 4, 5 BC date is correct. Saturn was a morning star on all three dates, but on Sept 4, 5 BC, it was mid-sky at midnight, so it was not only up all night, but it was a bright and morning star. In Rev. 22, Jesus said he was the bright and morning star. On YourSky charts, notice that the sign for Saturn is a beautifully scripted "h" for heaven. God doesn't miss a chance to plant a clue.

Hope this helps. To me, it is a fascinating subject. We are to have signs in the Sun, Moon and stars too. I think those started when Jupiter was hit by the String of Pearls. We have had some enormous GRBs too, and the tetrad of eclipses in 2014 and 15 are prophetic. I have hopes that the Rapture will be Cheshvan 17, Oct 25, 2010. That is when the Lord shut Noah into the Ark. Agape

Note: The new Crescent Moon is not under Virgo's feet every Tishri 1. It wasn't this year.

My reply to a post on the Five Doves site Re: Kevin Heckle: "Morning Star"

Kevin said,
> > There are a few things that I would politely dispute regarding your assertions:
First to be clear, Saturn is not and cannot be the ‘morning star’ representation of Jesus as you assert. I’m not sure how you base that Biblically and would be curious to hear.

I'm glad you asked. It took me over 7 years to figure this out, and I am happy to share it. First, I read about an 18" stack of books a week from the BIOLA Seminary Collection for 7 years without finding the answer. Finally, I opened my Bible, put my hands on it, and told the Lord that he would have to show me.

The light finally began to dawn when I started looking up every original word in Eze. 1. When I realized that the fire enfolding itself with brightness about it was the Sun and sunshine, my eyes began to open. The next breakthrough was that the Earth was mentioned in verse 15. That was a big help. Then the Earth with its orbit was one of the four flying cherubim. In our Solar System, we do have 4 terrestrial planets flying in concentric circles around the Sun. Wow! I feel sure that the translators had no idea of what was being pictured.

Ezekiel saw the throne of God in his vision of the heavens. Eze 1:1 says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God." He saw the Sun as a fire enfolding itself, the four terrestrial planets circling the Sun in concentric orbits, and, as it turns out, the throne of Jesus Christ, the only God/man. It's symbol is the sapphire, which means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. Mt. Sinai is probably derived from Sani (Saturn) too.

September's birthstone is the sapphire, meaning heaven. That is perfect. Jesus was born in September, and his throne is in Heaven.

The Son of God interacted with mankind in the Old Testament. It was the pre-incarnate Christ that sat on the "sapphire" pavement at Mt. Sinai.

Ex 24:10 says, "they saw the GOD OF ISRAEL: and there was UNDER HIS FEET as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were the BODY OF HEAVEN (i.e., as if it were the heavenly body) in his (or its) clearness."

Christ is the "God of Israel." Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer (Christ) the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH, King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts); and beside me there is no God."

We have proof that the Pre-incarnate Christ sat on the sapphire pavement at Mt. Sinai (representing Sani, Saturn) and gave Moses the 10 commandments.

Isa 48:17,18 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy Redeemer (Christ), the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".

Christ's throne is farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets (cherubim).

Eze. 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living (lively flying) creatures (creations: four planets flying in concentric orbits), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures (i.e., Earth is one of the four terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) with his (Earth's) four faces."

The same four faces were on flags placed at the cardinal points of the compass when Israel camped in circles, with roads between the rows, around the Tabernacle. The cherubim (planets) orbit in concentric circles, facing in turn north, west, south and east.

Eze 10:1 says, "behold, in the firmament (expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims (farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) there appeared over them as it were A SAPPHIRE STONE, AS THE APPEARANCE OF THE LIKENESS OF A THRONE."

Eze 10.19,20 says, "the cherubims lifted up their wings, and mounted up from the earth in my sight: when they went out, the wheels also were beside them, and every one stood at the door of the east gate of the LORD'S house; and THE GLORY OF THE GOD OF ISRAEL WAS OVER THEM ABOVE. This is the living (lively, i.e., flying) creature (creation, i.e., PLANET) THAT I SAW UNDER THE GOD OF ISRAEL by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims."

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (the only God/man [verses 1 and 26] is Jesus Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it (it was lit up as if it was a lamp), from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (rings of ice crystals shining in the sunlight as in a rainbow). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (i.e., the ring system of Saturn). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Eze 10:4 also mentions the glory of the Lord. It says, "Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub (one on the side of the Ark of the Covenant), and stood over the threshold of the house (i.e., the Temple); and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD'S glory."

In the Tabernacle, each width of fabric in the tent above had cherubim embroidered on it. The ones in the front were folded back so that the first one above represented Saturn. That was because Saturn is the last naked-eye planet. The cherubim that folded over the back corner of the Tabernacle represented Earth.

Thus Psa 118:22 says, "The stone which the builders refused (Christ) is become the head stone of the corner" (i.e., Christ will be the King of kings and Lord of lords of Earth).

The Temple's Brazen Sea depicted the watery orb of Earth. Mars and Jupiter were depicted by the double-cubed Holy Place, and Saturn (the third Heaven Paul was caught up to in II Cor 12:2-4) was depicted by the cubed Holy of Holies. The length, breadth and height of each planet are equal, just as the length, breadth and height of each cube is equal.

In 2Cor 12:2-4, Paul said, "I knew a man (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, and 3. Saturn). And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE (Heaven, Saturn), and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Rev 2:7 says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (i.e., the third heaven, Saturn).

Josephus, a Pharisee priest, told us in both "Antiquities" and "Wars" that the lampstand in the Temple stood for the Sun (the western lamp that was always to be kept burning), Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (Ant. III. VI. 7; Wars V. V. 5).

These planet's orbits stretched out to the east and west of Earth, i.e., "on the sides of the north."

Therefore, Psa 48:2 says of the heavenly Mt. Zion, "Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King." Christ is the "great King."

Gen 3:24 says, "So he drove out the man (i.e., God drove Adam out of Eden); and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden (i.e., rising in the eastern sky) Cherubims (planets), and a flaming sword (Satan's asteroid, Wormwood; Rev. 8:11) which turned every way (rotated and orbited), to keep the way of (or to) the tree of life" (which is in the heavenly Paradise, Saturn).

If the cherubim are the naked-eye planets, what are the seraphim?

Isa 6:1-3 says, "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne (on Saturn), high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it (Saturn) stood the seraphims (Uranus, Neptune and Pluto): each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

Job 38:7 mentions, "When the MORNING STARS sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy".

The main morning stars, rising at midnight or in the early AM, are Venus, Jupiter and Saturn, but on Cheshvan 17, 5771, Oct. 25, 2010, the ONLY morning star in the sky from about 2:40 AM to Sunup will be Saturn.

Therefore, I think that Saturn is what Jesus was alluding to in Rev. 22:16,17. He said, "I Jesus have sent mine angel (i.e., the Angel of the Lord, which was the Pre-incarnate Christ in the Old Testament) to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (YHWH) and the offspring of David (Jesus, i.e., the God/man), and the BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come." We will go to the bright and morning star at the Rapture.

Will Christ come to Earth from the Morning Star, Saturn, to pick up his Bride? It looks that way to me.

Rev 2:25-29 says, "But that which ye have already (Christians already have Christ) hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I WILL GIVE HIM THE MORNING STAR (Heaven, Saturn, the only morning star in the sky from 2:40 AM to Sunup on Cheshvan 17, 5771). He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

What does the Spirit say to you?

On March 21, 2010, Saturn was opposite the Sun, and it is nearest to the Earth during THIS ORBIT. Wow! What a mathematician God is.

Today, a morning star is a planet seen just before sunrise in the eastern sky.

In the Bible, the evening and morning were the first day. The evening was the going down of the Sun, from noon until midnight. The morning then, was from midnight to noon. A morning star could be seen from midnight to Sunup.

> > As for a sign in Capricorn, the one-horned goat as described in Daniel 8 is the representation of Alexander the Great, coming ‘across the whole earth’ (six months) from the west to defeat the two horns (Taurus)of the Medes and the Persians, standing by the river. I doubt Jesus birth was represented by a beast rising from the sea, Capricorn being half-fish, half one-horned goat.

However, in the Gospel in the Stars, Capricorn represents Christ, who died and was resurrected. Alexander the Great and the Medes and Persians are not part of the Gospel story. Christ is. His death and resurrection are part of the Gospel in the stars. Agape

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