Pro and Con 1578

Posted 11-17-2010

Bolide over Serbia 11-12-2010

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=11&dd=13&nav_id=70882

“A bolide is a luminous meteorite which is more luminous than Venus and is accompanied by sound effects which are created as it disintegrates.”

Just imagine the sound effects of the two incoming asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11.

PUBLISHED BY THE VATICAN ON NOV. 11, 2010, THE POPE RELEASED A 200-PAGE DOCUMENT, DATED SEPT. 30, "VERBUM DOMINI," (WORD OF THE LORD) ON THE BIBLE WITH MORE IMPORTANCE THAN ANY OTHER

Benedict XVI, taking as his reference the Prologue of John's Gospel ("The Word was made flesh"), divides Verbum Domini into three sections.

The first, entitled "Verbum Dei ", highlights the Trinitarian dimension of Christian revelation, stressing that the Christian God used "human words" to communicate to men; that the Word of God is not "a written and mute word" but that of God made man. There are also sublime passages on the Word of God who communicates himself in the created universe, that unites the deep beauty and dignity of all that exists and the great thirst for the absolute that exists in the hearts of all men (see n.8-10) .

The text then moves on to the "unprecedented and humanly inconceivable novelty" of the Word of God made man, Jesus Christ, who communicates with his life the very life of God, until the "silence of the cross” and resurrection.

Against all mythical reduction, the Pope states that the word of God is a "person" and against all private reduction he states the word of God can only be understood within the Church's living tradition. For this reason, he warns against two dangers in reading the Scriptures, that of secularism, which sees in the Bible only historical records of the past, without any present relevance and that of fundamentalist spiritualisation of the meaning of scriptures- practiced by various Protestant sects - which threatens literalism without the use of reason (see nos. 34-36)....

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Verbum-Domini-welcoming-the-Word-of-God-to-proclaim-to-those-who-do-not-believe-19980.html
---
KEY POINTS FROM BENEDICT XVI'S RECENT "VERBUM DOMINI" Nov 11, 2010

http://www.romereports.com/palio/Key-points-from-Popes-Verbum-Domini-on-the-Bible-english-3059.html
---
Pope Benedict XVI does not condemn the relationship with Islam, but it evaluates it asking members of all religions to work to ensure " authentic respect for each person and the ability of all freely to practise their religion"

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Verbum-Domini-welcoming-the-Word-of-God-to-proclaim-to-those-who-do-not-believe-19980.html
---
Full text of the Apostolic Exhortation: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20100930_verbum-domini_en.pdf

HERE WE GO!
THE FIRST PONTIFEX MAXIMUS SHOCKER WAS THAT JEWS HAVE NO SCRIPTURAL CLAIM TO THE PROMISED LAND.
NOW, THE SECOND PONTIFEX MAXIMUS SHOCKER: THE BIBLE CANNOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY

Get ready. The Rapture must be near, probably on the Festival of Lights, Hanukkah. Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider (i.e., take it to heart) now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation of the LORD'S temple was laid (i.e., Jesus was conceived, Kislev 24, and born Tishri 1), consider it. Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn? yea, as yet the vine, and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (Gentiles), hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you."

On Kislev 24, day before the first Festival of Lights, Hanukkah, the Temple lampstand was not lit. On Kislev 25, the lamps in the Temple were lit, and a miracle took place. The oil for one day lasted eight days.

This effectively depicted the lighted lamps of the wise virgins. The miracle this time will probably be the Rapture of the wise virgins, who are the temple of the Holy Spirit.

"POPE BENEDICT: BIBLE CANNOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY"

In his latest treatise, Pope Benedict XVI reverts to medieval teaching

By Ron Fraser, Nov 15, 2010
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=7640.6221.0.0

Hard on the heels of the recent Vatican statement declaring that the Jews have no scriptural claim to the Promised Land comes another papal shocker.
It is contained in the pope’s most recent “apostolic exhortation,” Verbum Domini (“The Word of the Lord”), issued on November 11.

In this lengthy “exhortation,” the pope “has issued a lofty and impassioned plea for everyone in the church to rediscover the Bible” (cna/ewtn News, November 11). But it’s more than an “impassioned plea” from this pope to his parishioners. It’s a direct attack on all who believe the inerrancy of the literal Scriptures as inspired by God!

In direct relation to the study of the Bible, Pope Benedict has “criticized ‘fundamentalist’ or ‘literalist’ interpretations and urged renewed appreciation for the symbolic and spiritual interpretation techniques used by the ancient fathers of the church” (ibid., emphasis mine).

In a most outlandish pontification, Benedict declared, “An authentic interpretation of the Bible must always be in harmony with the faith of the Catholic Church.”

This latest declaration by the pope tracks right back to his double endorsement of the claim that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church.

At the time that the pope made that startling claim, Fox News, among other sources, reported, “For the second time in a week, Pope Benedict xvi has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, reasserting the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church and saying other Christian communities were either defective or not true churches” (July 10, 2007).

Thus, having declared all Christian denominations other than Roman Catholicism illegitimate, having endorsed recently a Vatican statement that the Jews have no valid scriptural claim to the Promised Land, the pope now has reasserted the medieval stance that only the interpretation of Scripture by the Roman Catholic Church has authenticity.

That is a blatant papal lie that the very Scriptures themselves oppose!

Your Bible clearly declares, first and foremost, that “no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20).

It further declares that “all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). There’s no instruction here to resort first to any “symbolic and spiritual interpretation techniques used by the ancient fathers of the church”!...

Could it be that this pope is in reality seeking to hide what inerrant Scripture reveals as to the true nature of the religious body he leads, its true beginnings, and its prophesied end? Hide the truth by insisting on the application of the interpretation techniques imposed by the “ancient fathers of the church” and thus interpreting, or rather wresting, the Scriptures to suit the whim and the will of the Vatican? (2 Peter 3:16).

You need to allow the Bible to interpret itself on this burning question and all others....

VATICAN: ‘JEWS HAVE NO CLAIM TO PROMISED LAND’

By Ron Fraser, Oct 25, 2010
http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=7572.6156.0.0

In a startlingly blatant declaration, the Vatican has challenged Israel to justify its very existence!

Ron Fraser .One does not have to read too closely between the lines to deduce that Pope Benedict xvi has one overarching goal in mind for his papacy: the evangelization of the globe.

Recently, CatholicCulture.org reported that “With the October 12 promulgation of a motu proprio entitled Ubicumque et Semper, Pope Benedict xvi has established a Pontifical Council for New Evangelization.

“The new Vatican office is charged with coordinating plans to renew the vigor of the faith in regions where it was once dominant, but has lost ground to the forces of secularization—notably Europe
….”
Perhaps nothing has revealed what is really at the heart of this papacy more than the recent Synod on the Catholic Church in the Middle East, convened on October 10 and concluded on Sunday.

This particular gathering of Catholic bishops in Rome was in fact a watershed event in the pope’s program for evangelizing the world. For Benedict, the fulcrum around which his global project revolves is, as it has always been with the Vatican down through the ages, the city of Jerusalem. To this end, the Vatican is ramping up its involvement in the Middle East peace process.

“[I]f there is a place in the world today where ideas and plans are being hammered out to create the conditions for a possible peace, and not wars, in the Middle East, it is here. In Italy, in Rome, in Vatican City, in the Paul vi audience hall, in the Synod and even in the streets and trattorias of Rome. … The Vatican—so attacked, so reviled, so vilified—has erected a ‘school of peace’ in the heart of Rome, in the heart of the world, in these October days” (Inside the Vatican, October 20). So wrote Dr. Robert Moynihan in recent observations on the mood in Rome surrounding the special Synod of Bishops on the Middle East.

When I read that my mind went to a great prophetic warning that ought to ring in our ears every time we hear of Rome or Berlin, or for that matter Moscow, Tehran or Beijing, speak of “peace”—“For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape” (1 Thessalonians 5:3).

What is most profound in relation to the “peace” spoken of at this recent synod in Rome is the stance it has taken on the tiny, embattled, fighting-for-its-own survival, Judaic nation of Israel.

Reuters reported that in their concluding statement, the bishops declared:

Israel cannot use the biblical concept of a promised land or a chosen people to justify … territorial claims ….

Peel aside the sophistry masking the reality of Rome’s stance on the Middle East peace process, and it is obviously biased against the Jews and Israel’s birthright claim to the city of Jerusalem and the biblical land of Israel, which were gifted by God to the nation of Israel in perpetuity....

Those who falsely claim that “there is no longer a chosen people” will one day eat those words.

Reply to my previously posted email: Re: Hanukkah 2010

...So much a treasure of information! As these days are unfolding there are a MASS of revelations and corelations to this season! I have to read your message a couple more times just to absorb it all. You are very blessed with great insight into The Heart of Our Lord and His Word! A pleasure to have recieved such a reply! Im sure you have seen what is being revealed to others in The Body as well on watcher sights accross the globe! Very exciting! Today I feel we are rivaling even the hopes there have been for The Feast of Trumpets each year! God Bless, hope to see you soon!

From the Five Doves site

Mercer (13 Nov 2010)
"CJ's Post------This is it I hope !!"

I could be way off and this just wishful thinking.......but have you noticed just how weird things are getting in the news? Bizzare. You've got Glen Beck exposing Sorros for an hour every day this week.....then the next hour Brett Baer gets on like everything is just to normal......Does anyone else see a disconnect?

This is the Third confirmation I hope that my December 9, 2009 "I felt the Rapture" dream was a 1 year warning. My dove post: You are going to think I'm writing a novel......but please read and hang in there with me.

CJ's post http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3138553015&frmid=389&msgid=1109575&cmd=show

Cj says December 6.......I felt it the 9th.......THE THIRD DAY?? The 9th this year is the last Day of Hanukkah

Then this today on Doves by Bruce Warner BOTH OF THESE SCRIPTURES SPEAK OF THE 'DEAD IN CHRIST' AND THE 'LIVING IN CHRIST'

Hosea 6:2
"After two days He will REVIVE US;
On the third day He will RAISE US UP,
That WE MAY LIVE IN HIS SIGHT."
Notice also that Hosea 6:2 gives us 'THE DAY' of the rapture: "ON THE THIRD DAY".

Well, what do you all think? Mercer

Have any of you ever seriously studied the history of Hanukkah?

http://www.chabad.org/holidays/chanukah/article_cdo/aid/102816/jewish/Chanukah-Story.htm

I'm going to post some thoughts on this

My reply

> > I hope that my December 9, 2009 "I felt the Rapture" dream was a 1 year warning.

Wed, 9 December 2009 = 22nd of Kislev, 5770

The third day then would have been Kislev 25, the first day of Hanukkah. Kislev 25 does seem to be the most likely date for the Rapture. It was when they lit the consecrated oil in the lampstand. That fits in with the 5 wise virgins who have enough oil of the Holy Spirit to keep their lamps burning brightly.

The Lord told the end from the beginning. It rained 40 days in Noah's day, and the Lord will come as the rain in Hosea 6:3. Forty days from Cheshvan 17 is Kislev 26, but Cheshvan has 30 days this year. Maybe in the year of Noah's Flood, it had 29 days. However, there are two dates on Earth at the same time. Maybe it will be Kislev 25 here and Kislev 26 in Australia.

Jesus attended the Feast of the Dedication in John 10:22. We call that Hanukkah or the Festival of Lights. Maybe we will be the temple of the Holy Spirit that will be rededicated on Hanukkah this year, and Jesus will be with us at that time. Keep your lights burning brightly.

> > Hosea 6:2
"After two days He will REVIVE US; On the third day He will RAISE US UP, That WE MAY LIVE IN HIS SIGHT."

> > Notice also that Hosea 6:2 gives us 'THE DAY' of the rapture: "ON THE THIRD DAY".

> > Well, what do you all think?

In Hosea 6:2,3, Israel is speaking. Israel was revived in the 3rd 1000-year day. However, it might also apply to the Rapture. God packs a lot of information in a small space. He could have used a double reference in this passage.

Hosea 6:3 goes on to say, "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

The former rain was the First Advent. Jesus was born on Tishri 1, The latter rain is the Second Advent. He will return on Nisan 1.

However, there may be a double reference. Maybe he will also come for us at the Rapture as the rain in Noah's day. He has told us the end from the beginning. He will come as the rain is pretty clear. Maybe that applies to all his comings, even to his coming in the air at the time of the Rapture.

The 40th day (counted by inclusive reckoning because it is a block of time) from Cheshvan 17, when it began to rain in Noah's time, will be Dec. 3, Kislev 26. I take it to mean that Jesus could come any time during the 40 days, but not on the 41st day. If this is right, he could come this year on Kislev 25 or 26, but not on Kislev 27. We will know soon. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT 'ONE LAST THING' MUST HAPPEN BEFORE THE RAPTURE CAN OCCUR

"THAT DAY (of rapture) WILL NOT COME" UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED SO THAT HE SITS AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD IN JERUSALEM,ISRAEL SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD. This has not yet happened so the rapture cannot yet occur.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
"Now, brethern, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the Day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for THAT DAY WILL NOT COME unless the falling away come first, AND THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that HE SITS AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD."

This Scripture sets the 'rule for the revealing' of the anti-Christ, not anyone else! We can theorize all we want as to the identity of the anti-Christ, and we may be correct, but he must SIT AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHOWING HIMSELF TO BE GOD BEFORE THAT DAY CAN COME, according to the Scripture. Come Lord Jesus! Bruce Warner

My reply

> > "THAT DAY (of rapture) WILL NOT COME" UNTIL THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED

The False Prophet is to be revealed Mid-Trib. I am convinced that the Rapture, which is our DEPARTING, comes before that. Only when we are gone can the man of sin be revealed. Until then, the Holy Spirit restrains him.

We must be gone before Mid-Trib, hopefully at the beginning of this coming Hanukkah, December 1 (Hanukkah Eve), 2 or 3, 2010. According the Haggai 2, the Lord will bless us from Kislev 24 on. That will be Hanukkah Eve. The lamps of the wise virgins are lit. The first day of Hanukkah is when they lighted the lamps in the Temple. The 40th day of rain in Noah's day will be December 3, by inclusive reckoning because it is a block of time. This year, Cheshvan has 30 days. In some years, it has 29 days.

Hag 2:18-23 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. Hag 2:19 Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn? (a saying meaning is she pregnant) yea (therefore Kislev 24 was the day Jesus was conceived), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (Gentiles), hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you. Hag 2:20 And again the word of the LORD came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth day of the month, saying, Hag 2:21 Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth; Hag 2:22 And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. Hag 2:23 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts."

Early Bibles translated "he apostasia" in 2 Thess. 2 as departing. The KJV got it wrong and many modern Bibles have followed suit. However, there is another problem in this passage in the early Bibles, including the KJV. The "day of Christ" should be the "day of the Lord." After the KJV was published, older manuscripts were found that had "day of the Lord." That has been corrected in some later versions.

The Day of Christ is the Rapture. The Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the Tribulation.

Here are some of the old Bible translations that translated "he apostasia" as the departing.

2Th 2:1-8 in the Geneva Bible (1560) says, "Nowe we beseech you, brethren (believers), by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ (at the Rapture), and by OUR ASSEMBLING VNTO HIM (at the Rapture), 2 That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though the day of Christ (should be day of the Lord, they wouldn't have worried if the day of Christ was near) were at hand. 3 Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day (day of the Lord) shall NOT COME, except there come a DEPARTING (i.e., the Rapture) FIRST, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition (THE SATAN POSSESSED FALSE PROPHET), 4 Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing him selfe that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I tolde you these things? 6 And nowe ye knowe what withholdeth (the Holy Spirit holds back the appearing of the man of sin until the Rapture has taken place) that he might be reueiled in his time (the shortened last half of the Tribulation). 7 For the mysterie of iniquitie doeth already worke: onely he (the Holy Spirit) which nowe WITHHOLDETH, shall let (Old English for restrain) till he be taken out of the way (at the Rapture). 8 And THEN (after the Rapture) SHALL THAT WICKED MAN BE REVEILED, whome the Lorde shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightnes of his comming" (i.e., at the Second Advent).

2Th 2:1-8 in the Tyndale Bible (1525/26) says, 1 Thess 2:1 "We beseche you brethren by the commynge of oure lorde Iesu Christ and in that WE SHALL ASSEMBLE UNTO HIM (at the Rapture)
2 that ye be not sodely moved from youre mynde and be not troubled nether by sprete nether by wordes nor yet by letter which shuld seme to come from vs as though the daye of Christ (should be Day of the Lord) were at honde.
3 Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a DEPARTYNGE FYRST and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion
4 which is an adversarie and is exalted above all that is called god or that is worshipped: so that he shall sitt as God in temple of god and shew him silfe as god.
5 Remember ye not that when I was yet with you I tolde you these thynges?
6 And nowe ye knowe what with holdeth: even that he myght be vttered at his tyme.
7 For the mistery of that iniquitie doeth he all readie worke which onlie loketh vntill it be taken out of ye waye.
8 And then shall that wicked be vttered whom the lorde shall consume with the sprete of hys mouth and shall destroye with the apearaunce of his commynge".

2Th 2:1-8 in the Coverdale Bible (1535) says, 2Th 2:1 "We beseke you brethren by the commynge of or LORDE Iesus Christ, and in that WE SHAL ASSEMBLE VNTO HIM (i.e., at the Rapture),
2Th 2:2 that ye be not sodenly moued fro youre mynde, and be not troubled, nether by sprete, nether by wordes, ner yet by letter, which shulde seme to be sent from vs, as though ye daye of Christ were at hande.
2Th 2:3 Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the DEPARTYNGE COME FIRST, and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion,
2Th 2:4 which is an aduersary, and is exalted aboue all yt is called God or Gods seruyce, so that he sytteth as God in the temple of God, and boasteth himselfe to be God.
2Th 2:5 Remembre ye not, that whan I was yet with you, I tolde you these thinges?
2Th 2:6 And now ye knowe what witholdeth it, eue that it mighte be vttered at his tyme.
2Th 2:7 (For the mystery of the iniquyte worketh allready, tyll he which now onely letteth, be take out of the waye.)
2Th 2:8 And then shal that wicked be vttered, whom the LORDE shal cosume with ye sprete of his mouth, & shal destroye with the appearaunce of his commynge:"

2Th 2:1-8 in Cranmer's Bible (The Great Bible) (1539) says, "We beseke you brethren by the commynge of or LORDE Iesus Christ, and in that we shal assemble vnto him, that ye be not sodenly moued fro youre mynde, and be not troubled, nether by sprete, nether by wordes, ner yet by letter, which shulde seme to be sent from vs, as though ye daye of Christ (should be day of the Lord) were at hande. Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the DEPARTYNGE COME FIRST, and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion, which is an aduersary, and is exalted aboue all yt is called God or Gods seruyce, so that he sytteth as God in the temple of God, and boasteth himselfe to be God. Remembre ye not, that whan I was yet with you, I tolde you these thinges? And now ye knowe what witholdeth it, eue that it mighte be vttered at his tyme. (For the mystery of the iniquyte worketh allready, tyll he (the Holy Spirit) which now onely letteth, be take out of the waye [i.e., at the time of the Rapture].) And then shal that wicked be vttered, whom the LORDE shal cosume with ye sprete of his mouth, & shal destroye with the appearaunce of his commynge".

Thomas Ice can explain this better than I can. Here is what he wrote.
"Is the Rapture in 2 Thessalonians 2:3?"
(By Thomas Ice)http://focusonjerusalem.com/istherapturein2Thessalonians.htm

"I believe that there exists a strong possibility that 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking about the Rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists, like myself believe that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated “apostasy,” is a reference to the Rapture and should be translated “departure.” Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the Rapture first takes place. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2nd Thessalonians 2:3 supports strong evidence for pretribulationism.

"THE MEANING OF APOSTASIA

"The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament. In addition to 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses.” The word is a Greek compound of apo, or “from” and istemi, or “stand.” Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.”

Liddell and Scott’s “A Greek English Lexicon” defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt”; then secondly as “departure, or disappearance.” Gordon Lewis explains how the verb from which the noun apostasia is derived supports the basic meaning of departure in the following:

"The verb may mean to remove spatially. There is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure. Since the noun is used only one other time in the New Testament of apostasy from Moses (Acts 21:21), we can hardly conclude that its biblical meaning is necessarily determined. The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith (Luke 8:13; 1st Timothy 4:1; Hebrews 3:12).The word is used for departing from iniquity (2nd Timothy 2:19), from ungodly men (1st Timothy 6:5), from the Temple (Luke 2:27), from the body (2nd Corinthians 12:8), and from persons (Acts 12:10; Luke 4:13). “It is with full assurance of proper exegetical study and with complete confidence in the original languages,” concludes Daniel Davey, “that the word meaning of apostasia is defined as departure.” Paul Lee Tan adds the following:

"What precisely does Paul mean when he says that “the falling away” (2:3) must come before the Tribulation? The definite article “the” denotes that this will be a definite event, an event distinct from the appearance of the Man of Sin. The Greek word for “falling away,” taken by itself, does not mean religious apostasy or defection. Neither does the word mean “to fall,” as the Greeks have another word for that [pipto, I fall; TDI]. The best translation of the word is “to depart.” The Apostle Paul refers here to a definite event which he calls “the departure,” and which will occur just before the start of the Tribulation. This is the Rapture of the Church. So the word has the core meaning of “departure” and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean physical departure or an abstract departure such as a departure from the faith.

"TRANSLATION HISTORY

"The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608). This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of AD 400 renders apostasia with the word discessio, meaning “departure.” Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as “falling away.” Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as “departure.” No good reason was ever given." Agape

Gestation Cycle Revelation -- Hanukkah -- WoW (my comments are interspersed and marked ***)

By CJ, posted on RITA, Rapture In The Air
http://pub48.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=4086901292&frmid=13&msgid=1038550&cmd=show

A post from "DC" yesterday really excited me. Here is the link:

http://pub37.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3138553015&frmid=389&msgid=1110015&cmd=show
> > According to Zola Levitt, the "birth" of a baby following the Jewish Feast "gestation period type" should be around the 10th day of the 9th Jewish month. According to the Jewish Calendar below, that is the VERY DAY of the Leonid Meteor Shower.

The thing that really struck a revelation cord with me is the rapture being compared to a "birth"! There is one scripture that CLEARLY depicts the rapture as a "birth"!!

I believe this is the last missing link that God has provided through this progressive revelatory state we dedicated watchers have been in!!!!

What is the last missing link?

The rapture is a type pf "birth"!!!

Scriptural proof:
Isaiah 26:19-21
"Your dead will live; their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust awake and shout for joy. For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits."

"Come, my people, enter into your rooms, And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course."

***The "indignation" is God's Wrath, which probably falls on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015. The Last-Trump Rapture takes place that day (Rev. 6:17; 7:14), not the First-Trump Rapture.

"For behold, the Lord is about to come out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; and the earth will reveal her bloodshed, and will no longer cover her slain."

If these verses are not talking about the rapture, nothing is! The rapture is before the tribulation begins which is supported by:

"Come, my people, enter into your rooms, And close your doors behind you; Hide for a little while, Until indignation runs its course." --

***This is talking about the second Rapture, not the First-Trump Rapture.

This is the bride entering the bridal chamber until the indignation (judgment) is over. We can see from this verse, the LORD will hide is church in the heavenly chambers during the time of judgment is being released upon the earth.

***Both groups, from the First-Trump Rapture before the Temple is built, and from the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath, will be in Heaven during the outpouring of God's Wrath at the end of the Great Tribulation.

"For behold, the Lord is about to come out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; and the earth will reveal her bloodshed, and will no longer cover her slain."

This is clearly the day of the LORD when God will punish the "inhabitants of the earth", which we are not apart of because we are inhabiting heaven during this time. So, Isaiah 26:19-21 is a clear picture of the pre-tribulation rapture of the church before the tribulation begins!

Now, what I have never "caught" before was how the LORD compares the dead in Christ rising, lets' see:

"Your dead will live; their corpses will rise. You who lie in the dust awake and shout for joy. For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits."

This is the raising of the dead from the earth, before the alive and remain are caught up (rapture). The key is understand the last verse here:

"And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits."

Now, this is God clearly telling us the dead in Christ rising (immediately before the alive and remain are caught up in the rapture) is depicted by the earth "giving BIRTH" to the dead!!!!

I can't believe I ever missed that before. The first part of the rapture (dead in Christ rising) is the earth giving BIRTH to the dead saints! After coming to this revelation, it opens the door all the way to the TIMING of the birth.

Now, in regular birth, there is a gestation cycle that lasts up to somewhere around 9 months. Well, if the dead in Christ rising is typified by GOD and HIS WORD of being a "birth", then it bodes well without any reason to doubt that there will be a gestation cycle before the birth (rapture) happens!!!

Remember, God don't put one shoe one and leave out the other (LOL)! God is too perfect, if there is a birth, there is a gestation period first.

The question is...

What is the length of time and what brackets the LORD'S gestation cycle!?

An amazing revelation was given to Zola Levitt in a discovery of the ages (in my opinion). We will leave this earth and she shall "cast out" (birth) her dead at the end of the church's gestation cycle!!!! A gestation cycle is meant for preparing one for birth, just as we are being prepared for the rapture.

Here is the revelation given to Zola Levitt, posted by J.R. Church: http://prophecyforum.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html

Jewish Holy Days: The Making of a Baby
By J. R. Church

Zola Levitt discovered an amazing correlation between Jewish Holy Days and the gestation of a human baby, from conception to birth.

While preparing for writing a book for new parents, Zola contacted a gynecologist for some help in understanding gestation. During that session, the gynecologist showed him a series of pictures, pointed to the first one (an egg and a sperm) and said, "On the fourteenth day of the first month, the egg appears."

The statement struck a chord in his Jewish mind because that was the date of Passover. He remembered the roasted egg on his family table every Passover. Now, for the first time, he knew what it meant! Not wanting to lead the gynecologist off from the subject at hand, he didn't say anything, but continued to listen.

The gynecologist continued: "The egg must be fertilized within 24 hours, or it will pass on." This reminded Zola of the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the seed or grain that "fell into the ground and died" in order to produce a harvest, the first-fruits of which was presented to God. Next, the gynecologist said, "Within two to six days, the fertilized egg attaches itself to the wall of the womb and begins to grow." And, sure enough, the Jewish evangelist thought, "The Feast of First-fruits is observed anywhere from two to six days after Passover!"

Next, he was shown a photo of an embryo showing arms, hands, fingers, legs, feet, toes, a head, eyes, etc. The caption said, "Fifty days." The gynecologist continued, "Around the fiftieth day, the embryo takes on the form of a human being. Until then, we don't know if we have a duck or a tadpole." Zola thought, "That's Pentecost!"

The next picture showed the embryo at seven months. The gynecologist said, "On the first day of the seventh month, the baby's hearing is developed. For the first time, it can hear and distinguish sounds outside the womb." Zola knew that was the date for the Jewish Festival of Trumpets.

The gynecologist continued, "On the tenth day of the seventh month, the hemoglobin of the blood changes from that of the mother, to a self-sustaining baby." Zola thought, "That's the Day of Atonement, when the blood was taken into the Holy of hollies!"

Next, the gynecologist said, "On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, the lungs become fully developed. If born before then, the baby would have a hard time breathing." And Zola thought, "That's the festival of Tabernacles, a time of celebrating the Temple, home of the Shekinah glory or Spirit of God." In the New Testament, the Greek term pneuma, normally translated as "breath," is applied to the "Holy Spirit."

Birth takes place on the tenth day of the ninth month. Eight days after birth, in Jewish families, a son is circumcised. Zola noted that the eight days of Hanukkah are celebrated right on schedule, EIGHT months and ten days after Passover. (Correction from original article that said "nine months and 10 days after Passover".
===============================================

This is incredible!!!

If the church is being nurtured by the holy spirit until birthing time (rapture), and God's holy festivals are perfect lined up like a gestation cycle of a baby, then when is the church birthed?

It's quite simple:

The church begins it's cycle on Passover, and ends it's cycle 8 months and 10 days later. Well, Nisan 14 (Passover) plus 8 Jewish months lands us on the 14th of Kislev. Then add 10 more days and you get the 24th day of Kislev, HANUKKAH, the birth of the church!!!!!

Hallelujah!!!

This year, Passover fell on March 30th, 2010 (full moon). Add 8 months or 240 days, then add 10 more days and you get 250 days.

March 30th, 2010 + 250 days is December 5th/6th, 2010....THE NEW MOON, right in the middle of Hanukkah!

Or the 8 months and 10 days end on the first day of Hanukkah -- December 1st/2nd, 2010!!

Either way, the birth of the church at the end of our gestation cycle (nurturing period of the holy spirit) will end at it's pre-ordained time:

The feats of Hanukkah!

The exact time the OLIVE HARVEST ends!

Amen!

Our progressive revelation the Lord has been taking us through ends the the end of the progression of the church -- HANUKKAH!!!

***To check this, I went to Add or Subtract to a Date http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?m1=3&d1=30&y1=2010&type=add&ay=&am=&ad=250&aw=
***Here is the result:
From date: Tuesday, March 30, 2010
Added 250 days
Resulting date: Sunday, December 5, 2010

***We have two problems.
(1) Passover was March 29, 2010
(2) it takes 266 to 280 days for normal human gestation (those counts are started at different times, the latter is if the mother knows the exact date of conception)

***From date: Passover, Monday, March 29, 2010 (Nisan 14) Added 266 days

Resulting date: Monday, December 20, 2010 (Tevet 13, 5771)

***From date: Passover, Monday, March 29, 2010 (Nisan 14) Added 280 days
Resulting date: Monday, January 3, 2011 (Tevet 17, 5770)

***Neither of the ending dates fall on Hanukkah. It starts Dec. 2, 2010, Kislev 25, 5771, and ends Dec. 9, 2010, (Teveth 2, 5771). Therefore, it is a nice little story with the ring of truth to it, but actually, it is not true.

So, what year?

Look at Psalms 110, referring to the year 2010:

Verse 3: Remember the rapture is a "type" of birth when the "DEW" is what those in the earth are called:

"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth."

AMEN!!!!

Psalms 110 speaks of the DEW of the earth (dead) coming from the WOMB!!!

The rapture is is 2010 (too many indicators) at the end of the holy day bracketed gestation cycle on Hanukkah between December 1st - 6th, 2010!!!

***Here, I can agree. The day with the best chance is Kislev 25, Dec. 2, 2010, because the Lord said he would bless after Kislev 24. Haggai 2:15-19 says, "And now, I pray you, consider from this day and upward, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD: Since those days were, when one came to an heap of twenty measures, there were but ten: when one came to the pressfat for to draw out fifty vessels out of the press, there were but twenty. I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labours of your hands; yet ye turned not to me, saith the LORD. Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. Hag 2:19 Is the seed yet in the barn? yea, as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (i.e., Gentiles grafted in), hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you."

***Kislev 24 is Hanukkah Eve, so the blessing will probably start on the next day, Dec. 2, 2010. The lampstand in the Temple had not been lighted in a long time. The first day it was lit was Kislev 25. This ties in with the 10 virgins. Their lamps are lit, so the chances of it being Kislev 25 are very good.

The church are clearly the Olives, being grafted into the Olive tree, being indwelt (inside) with the holy spirit, then same way Olives are indwelt with OIL which is symbolic of the holy spirit!

The OIL from the Olive harvest is ready and prepared by HANUKKAH, so the menorah can be lit which has 7 candles, being symbolic of the 7 churches BEING LIT UP in heaven with Jesus in the "midst"!!!

***The Temple lampstand had 7 oil lamps, not candles, all on the same level. In both Antiquities and Wars, Josephus indicated that they stood for the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. The semicircles holding the lamps stand for the orbits of the planets. The western lamp was always to be kept burning because it represented the Sun. The third heaven Paul was caught up to was Saturn, (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter, and (3) Saturn.

***Rev. 1:20 says, "the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." This ties in nicely with the Temple and its lampstand, and with Hanukkah. At Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, a miracle took place. The oil for one day lasted 8 days, the length of time it took to make new oil for the lampstand. Eight means new beginnings, and the Rapture will start our new beginnings in Heaven.

***The candlesticks that represent the 7 churches are seen in Heaven with Christ at the time of the Rapture (Rev. 1:9f). That ties in with a Rapture on Hanukkah. Jesus went to the Feast of the Dedication.

WOW!!!

The 7 candlesticks in heaven are symbolic of the 7 churches which ARE the 7 blazing spirits of God!!!

The Olive harvest ends at Hanukkah when the Oil is all collected and ready to be used to for the menorah to LIGHT the 7 candlesticks!

If we are symbolic of the 7 candlesticks, and the menorah that holds the candlesticks are LIT UP during the feast of dedication, then it bodes well that...

The 7 churches (blazing spirits before the throne of God) will be LIT UP together in heaven with Christ "in the midst" during HANUKKAH as well...

Meaning we have been RAPTURED!!

Also, this holiday is the anniversary of the DEDICATION of the temple...

Well, who is the TEMPLE of the holy spirit?

The church...

The church (temple as holy spirit), will be dedicated in heaven before Christ on the same anniversary...

HANUKKAH!!!!

Also, we are the "BODY" of Christ right?

Well, a body is made up of hands, legs, ect...

In the revelation found by Zola Levitt, the HANDS, BODY, LEGS, ect of the baby START TO GROW AND BE NOTICED by the 50th day!

The church BODY OF CHRIST began to grow on the 50th day OF PENTECOST!!!!!

Its' so perfect!

50th day of gestation cycle - Hands, Legs, FEET begin to grow/show!

50th day of Pentecost - CHURCH BODY OF CHRIST ( Spiritual Hands, Legs, Feet began to grow/show)!!!!!!

WOW WOW

The gestation cycle of the Jewish feasts are absolutely symbolic of the gestation cycle of the church. When does it end with the "birth" of Isaiah 26:19-20?

On Hanukkah!!!

The rapture IS the new moon, so December 5th/6th, 2010 is when we the temple of the holy spirit is DEDICATED to Christ.

Another confirmation:

"TN DOVE" came up with a great insight...

Queen Esther (type of bride) was crowned King on the 1st of Tevet, which is December 7th, 2010...RIGHT AFTER THE NEW MOON on the 6th!

With this being the last month of 2010, and end of gestation cycle, and end of Olive harvest, and the new moon perfectly picturing the rapture...

That is December 5th - 7th, the end of our gestation!!

MY THOUGHTS

Since CJ thinks that Passover to Hanukkah equals the human gestation period. I went to "Add or subtract to a date" to see if there are 280 days between Passover and Hanukkah this year. http://www.timeanddate.com/date/dateadded.html?m1=12&d1=2&y1=2010&type=sub&ay=&am=&ad=280&aw=

Below are the results for the most days of normal gestation, 280, and the least, 266, if the mother knows the exact date of conception.

1. From date: Thursday, December 2, 2010, Hanukkah Subtracted 280 days

Resulting date: Thursday, February 25, 2010

2. From date: Thursday, December 2, 2010

Subtracted 266 days

Resulting date: Thursday, March 11, 2010

Neither result comes close to last Passover, Nisan 14, 5770, Mon. March 29, 2010. Both Feb. 25 and Mar. 11 were before the spring equinox, March 21.

In Isaiah 26:19-21, the Rapture in view is not the First-Trump Rapture. It is the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath. The "indignation" is the Day of God's Wrath.

The Tribulation saints caught up to Heaven that day (Rev. 6:17; 7:14) are to hide for 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) until the two asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 have impacted Earth and the Israelites have buried the dead to cleanse the land for the Lord's return on the following Nisan 1. For there to be 7 months between God's Wrath on Tishri 1, Sept. 14, 2015, to the following Nisan 1, April 9, 2016, that year has to be a Leap Year with the 13th month. 5776 (2015/2016) is a LY. 5777 is not.

The year 5775 is Sabbatic, it divides by 7 equally.

The year 5776 is LY, type: Embolismic complete (385 days).

The year 5777 is Common deficient (353 days).

The year 5778 is Common regular (354 days).

The year 5779 is LY, type: Embolismic complete (385 days)

The Jubilee Year should be 5776. It has to follow a Sabbatic Year. So of these, to me, only 5776 can be the last year of the Tribulation. That's only 5 years from now. Remember what Ron Reese found? Jacob (Israel) and children moved to Egypt in the 2nd year of the famine. That could be a type of the Bride of Christ being raptured in the 2nd year of the Tribulation.

I have high hopes that we will get out of here on Hanukkah. In Haggai 2, the Lord said for us to consider Kislev 24, he would bless us from that day. Kislev 24 will be Dec. 1, 2010. That will be Hanukkah Eve. If he blesses us from that day, the Rapture could be Dec. 2 or 3. The 2nd is the first day of Hanukkah. The 3rd is like the 40th day of rain in Noah's day, 40 days from Cheshvan 17, Oct. 25, 2010.

The Lord will come as the rain, so he could come on Dec. 1 or 2. After being desecrated, the Temple lamps had been dark. Hanukkah was the first day the lamps in the Temple were lit. The ten virgins, the Temple of the Holy Spirit, have their lamps lit. That fits Hanukkah. On Kislev 24, the Temple lamps were not lit.

There are two days on Earth at the same time. Maybe it will be Kislev 25 here and Kislev 26 in Australia.

It looks like we have to be out of here before Mid-Trib, Nov. 8/9, 2012, and the Temple has to be built. In Haggai 2, Kislev 24 was before there was a stone laid upon a stone in the Temple. The Temple should be built between our Rapture and Mid-Trib, when the False Prophet sits there pretending to be God. Maybe that will be the day the new Temple will be dedicated. Building the Temple may come about to finally get Israel to sign the peace treaty.

Dan. 12:11 shows us that the final year is a Leap Year. It adds 30 days to the 1260-day ESTIMATED TIME of the Great Tribulation. Of course, we know from Mt. 24:22 that the Great Tribulation will be shortened.

Mt 24:21,22 says, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days (the 1290) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

According to Dan. 8:13,14, the Tribulation will be 2300 days. The first half would be 1260 days. The Great Tribulation would be 1040 days (shortened by 220 days).

The Day of God's Wrath would be Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015. Seven months later, the Second Advent would be Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016. Agape

   Pro and Con 1579   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at: mjagee@verizon.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (951) 653-4110

© 1996-2010, Marilyn J. Agee; Updated 11-17-2010