Pro and Con 1579
My reply to an email, Re: Warner: HERE IS HOW FAR IN ADVANCE OUR 'WARNING' MAY BE
> > Scripture DOES TELL US that both the 'deliverance' of Noah and Lot came on the 'same day' as God's 'judgement' began. Therefore we can expect that our 'deliverance' will come on the 'same day' just before God's 'judgement' begins.
> > if we can determine from the Scriptures 'the day' when God's wrath on earth begins; we then are given the 'day of our rapture'.
If that were so, I think we would have to wait until the Feast of Trumpets, Sept 14, 2015. That is when I expect the Wrath of God to fall on Earth. I expect the second Rapture (I Cor 15:51,52), the Last-Trump Rapture, the Rapture of the Tribulation saints, to take place on that day. See Rev. 6:17; 7:14.
There are two Raptures, one at least 3.5 years before the Wrath of God hits Earth, and hopefully earlier than 3.5 years into the Tribulation, the other when the Day of God's Wrath has arrived.
THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE
Ours is the First-Trump Rapture. See I Thess 4:16,17.
The two Raptures are not exactly alike. In both, the dead are raised incorruptable, but only at the last one are all (saints, even Paul) made immortal.
1Cor 15:42 says, "the resurrection of the dead (which takes place at both Raptures). It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption".
There are ranks in the First Resurrection. 1Cor 15:22,23 says, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank, series or succession): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
Christ is the firstfruit. 1Cor 15:20 says, "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."
We, the church, are a kind of firstfruits. James 1:18 says, "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."
THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE
The Last-Trump Rapture is seen in I Cor. 15:51,52.
There is another kind of firstfruits, the Tribulation saints. Of the 144,000 Israelite saints, Rev 14:4 says, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."
There are two Raptures in the First Resurrection, one which precedes the Millennium, the other on the Day of God's Wrath, which is the first day of the Millennium. Rev 20:5 says, "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
Immortality is put on at the last Rapture. 1Cor 15:53,54 says, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
JESUS CONNECTED THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, THE HARPAZO, WITH HANUKKAH, THE FEAST OF THE DEDICATION
John 10:29-30 (ASV) says, "it was the FEAST OF THE DEDICATION (HANUKKAH, THE FESTIVAL OF LIGHTS) at Jerusalem: it was winter; and JESUS WAS WALKING IN THE TEMPLE in Solomon's porch. The Jews therefore came round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou hold us in suspense? If thou art the Christ, tell us plainly. Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believe not: the works that I do in my Father's name, these bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE (ON HANUKKAH), and I know them, AND THEY FOLLOW ME (ON HANUKKAH): AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE; and they shall never perish, and no one shall SNATCH (HARPAZO, RAPTURE) them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to SNATCH (HARPAZO, RAPTURE) them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
It looks like Jesus will come as the rain.
This year, 2010, the 40th day of rain in Noah's day falls on Kislev 26, the second day of the Feast of Dedication. In some other years, when Cheshvan has 29 days instead of 30, the 40th day corresponds to Kislev 25, the first day of the Feast of Dedication, Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights.
That may have been planned on purpose. There are two days on Earth at the same time. The Rapture may be on Kislev 25 here and Kislev 26 in Australia. Either day follows Kislev 24, the day mentioned in Haggai 2.18,19.
It says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev), even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid (i.e., conceived), consider it. Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn? (a saying regarding whether one was pregnant) yea (yes! Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (the Gentiles), hath not brought forth: from this day (Kislev 24) will I bless you."
The Festival of Lights also ties in with the wise virgins, whose lamps are burning. Agape
From Five Doves site, Re: "Other Hanukkah Coincidences"
Daniel Matson (18 Oct 2010)
...the 7.7 Indonesian earthquake is 40 days until Kislev 26. The Indonesian earthquake was on October 25, 2010, which was Heshvan 17 and the day that began 40 days and 40 nights of rain in the Flood....
Incoming e-mail, Re: THESE TWO SCRIPTURES BOTH DESCRIBE THE 'SAME EVENT'
Hi Bruce: My remarks will be interspersed in yours and marked ***.
Notice the use of the word "great" in both of these Scriptures:
"For the GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH has come, and who is able to stand?"
"For then there will be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."
The "great day of His wrath" will begin the "great tribulation" upon the unrighteous.
*** Instead of beginning the Great Tribulation, which would be Mid-Trib, the great day of God's wrath (Jesus' Long Day) will END the shortened Great Tribulation, the last half of the 7-yr. Tribulation.
We know from both the story of Noah and the story of Lot that 'God's judgement' befalls the unrighteous the 'very same day' after 'God delivers' the righteous away from His judgement. Also, Scripture tells us that the 'deliverance of the righteous', and 'judgement on the unrighteous' will happen the 'very same way' when Jesus appears to rapture the Church:
*** The difference is that it will be as in the days of Noah at the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:16,17, and as in the days of Lot at the Last-Trump Rapture of I Cor. 15:51,52. No fire falls at the first Rapture, but the 2 asteroid pieces of Rev. 8:8-11 impact the Earth right after the second Rapture. No wonder God wipes away their tears.
"Even so will it be in THE DAY when the Son of Man is revealed."
*** Jesus will be revealed when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky.
Therefore we can expect the 'rapture of the Church' (ie. deliverance of the righteous) to occur on the 'very same day' as "the great day of His wrath" just before the beginning of "great tribulation" which is God's judgement upon the unrighteous.
*** The Rapture of the Church (the First-Trump Rapture) will be before Mid-Trib. The Rapture of the Tribulation saints (the Last-Trump Rapture) will be at the end of the Great Tribulation, when the Day of God's Wrath has come (Rev. 6:17; 7:14), but before God's Wrath hits Earth (Rev. 7:14; 8:1f).
*** There are two Days of the Son of Man. Luke 17:22-30 says, "And he said unto the disciples, The days (plural) will come, when ye shall desire to see one (i.e., the first) of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it (i.e., be left behind at the first Rapture). And they shall say to you (in the Tribulation), See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day (i.e., the second Day of the Son of Man). But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days (plural) of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day (singular) that Noe entered into the ark (picturing the 1st Rapture), and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot (picturing the 2nd Rapture); they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all (that's the Day of God's Wrath). Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (i.e., when they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky).
According to the Scriptures, Come Lord Jesus! Bruce Warner
*** Amen. Agape, Marilyn
From Five Doves site, Re: "Does this timeline seem OK?? Please do answer."
Paul Wilson (16 Nov 2010)
I am pretty sure on a Tishri birth as it is well believed that John the Baptist was born on Passover and we know that Jesus' birth was 6 months later (as Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary be came pregnant) which is tabernacles. We are not told how long they were in Egypt so we can only guess. Now it appears he was 33 and a half at death, he celebrated 3 Passovers after baptism (somewhere around 30) and was killed on preparation day of what would have been the fourth and again Passover is 6 mouths from Tishri, so since we know based on his saying he would be in the belly of the earth “3 days and 3 nights” he was killed on a Wednesday and that would place it in 30 AD as only 30, AD 27 AD, and 37 AD have Wednesday prep days. With a 30 AD date we have a 5 BC birth. Now lately several scholars are believing Herod died in the beginning months of 1 BC as there was a lunar eclipse on Jan 9th that year and they believe the eclipse of 4 BC was not soon enough for the events to have taken place that would have happened after his death without interfering with Passover (http://www.askelm.com/star/star010.htm). Given this we can see a time line of :
Birth-Tishri 15 5 BC, Magi arrive fall-winter 3 BC, Flee to Egypt late 3 BC or early 2 BC, Stay till Herod’s death in 1 BC, Return after his death 1 BC, They go to Jerusalem when he is 12 sometime between Tishri 15 8 AD and Tishri 14 9 AD, He is baptized somewhere around Tishri 26 AD, He is crucified on Nisan 14 30 AD. total 33.5 years: 4.25 in BC and 29.25 in AD
On the resurrection 3 days and 3 nights bring us to Saturday night after sundown so at the earliest this is when he rose at the latest on Sunday just prior to sun rise. Now the earthquake on Sunday morning is not said to be because of the resurrection but “for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door,”. Now Jesus could have risen on Saturday night and been in the tomb till the angel rolled it away or he could have risen on Sunday morning as he not only said “3 days and 3 nights” but also “after 3 days he would rise” so that would put it anytime after sundown Saturday. Paul
I know some of you place his birth at a different date and/or year this is simply my guess. I invite you to share your own timeline that we may discuss this respectfully. We can disagree on some things and still be brethren and still be seeking the truth.
> > I am pretty sure on a Tishri birth as it is well believed that John the Baptist was born on Passover and we know that Jesus' birth was 6 months later (as Elizabeth was 6 months pregnant when Mary be came pregnant)
I believe that Jesus was born on Tishri 1. He was conceived on Kislev 24 (Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. Is the seed (Jesus) yet in the barn? (a saying regarding pregnancy) yea (YES), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate, and the olive tree (Gentiles), hath not brought forth: from this day will I bless you."
I expect the Rapture on Kislev 25, the Festival of Lights. The wise virgins have their lamps lit. It was dark at the Temple on Kislev 24 and bright on Kislev 25 when the lampstand was lighted.
I believe Jesus will return as the rain. In Noah's day, it began to rain on Cheshvan 17. The 40th day of that rain will be equal to Kislev 26 this year, because Cheshvan has 30 days. In years when Cheshvan has 29 days, the 40th day of rain would be Kislev 25, the first day of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights. I'll be happy with either the 25th or the 26th.
> > Now it appears he was 33 and a half at death, he celebrated 3 Passovers after baptism (somewhere around 30) and was killed on preparation day of what would have been the fourth and again Passover is 6 mouths from Tishri, so since we know based on his saying he would be in the belly of the earth “3 days and 3 nights” he was killed on a Wednesday and that would place it in 30 AD as only 30, AD 27 AD, and 37 AD have Wednesday prep days. With a 30 AD date we have a 5 BC birth.
I believe Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC and died on Thursday, Nisan 13, in 30 AD. He was crucified on the preparation of the Passover (Nisan 13), not on Passover (Nisan 14). The Jews went not into the judgment hall that they might keep the Passover, which was still future. The three days and nights in the heart of the earth were Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).
I disagree with the late Earnest Martin on the date of Jesus' birth, also on the location of the Temple. He placed it over the Gihon Spring south of the Temple Mount.
The water ran by a sealed aquaduct containing a siphon from the spring Ein Eitan near Solomon's Pools to the Temple Mount. I couldn't remember just how to spell the name of the spring, so I searched on Google and found a good article. It places the Temple between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque, which I agree with. Tuvia Sagiv figured it out correctly. The back of the Holy of Holies lined up with the wailing wall. The article also gives the information about the aquaduct and has pictures of it I hadn't seen before. I think you will enjoy reading it. I will put one of the pictures on Pro and Con 1579.
The water conduit that supplied the temple in Jerusalem began in the area of the Hebron mountains, passed through Solomon's Pools at Etam, near Bethlehem, and flowed to Jerusalem.
The Jerusalem Water Aqueduct 12km from Solomon’s Pools
Incoming e-mail, Re: "THEN THE SKY RECEDED AS A SCROLL WHEN IT IS ROLLED UP"
"Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up,"
Could this be a description of the "open door" to Heaven set before us at the 'time of rapture' spoken of in:
"I know your works, See, I have set before you AN OPEN DOOR, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My Word, and have not denied My Name."
According to Your Word, Come Lord Jesus!
> > Revelation 6:14
"Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up,"
This is the Sign of the Son of Man. People will look up in the sky and see Jesus sitting on his throne.
Mt 24:30 says, "And then shall appear THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
This is when Jesus will be revealed. It will happen on the day of the second Rapture, which is also the Day of God's Wrath. This will be 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13).
Luke 17:29-37 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is REVEALED. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is (the Body of Christ is in Heaven), thither will the eagles (high flyers) be gathered together."
The type is in Ex 19:4. It says, "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."
The reality is in Isa 40:31. It says, "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." Agape
Incoming e-mail, Re: Enoch, Hanukah and Rapture
New Zealand Theophany
The name Enoch means "dedicated." It is derived from the same Hebrew root used for the name Hanukkah – also known as the Feast of Dedication.
Enoch was translated to heaven because of his faith:
"By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Hebrews 11:5-6.
"Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away." Genesis 5:24.
His translation is viewed as a type for the Rapture. Is it possible then that his name provides a clue as to the timing of the Rapture?
In John 10:22, we see Jesus at the Temple walking in Solomon's Colonnade on the Feast of Dedication. This was also the future meeting place of the early Church:
"And all the believers used to meet together in Solomon's Colonnade." Acts 5:12.
It is during Hanukkah that Jesus tells the Jews that His sheep listen to His voice:
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can SNATCH them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." John 10:27-30.
Please notice that the Greek word used in this passage for "snatch" is "harpazo." The very word we use to describe the Rapture today.
When we think of Hanukkah, we think of the menorah. But did you know that the menorah is also the symbol for the Church? When the Apostle John was called to heaven in Revelation 1, he hears someone speaking in a loud voice, like a trumpet. See Revelation 1:10. He sees Jesus walking among the lampstands. And he is told what the lampstands represent:
"The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches." Revelation 1:20.
The lampstand is a piece of furniture found in the Tabernacle, and then the Temple. So, we can infer that John was translated into the heavenly Temple. And to bring things full circle, Hanukkah commemorates the rededication of the Temple.
Now, I do not know if we will hear His voice at Hanukkah. I do not know if He will walk among us – the people who represent His lampstands – on the holiday that celebrates the miracle of the menorah. But it does seem like a wonderful time for all of us to exercise an Enoch-like faith.
"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." Hebrews 11:1.
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say 'No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope – the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good." Titus 2:11-14. Do not lose your hope. Maranatha!
Thanks much for this information. I love to learn something new. Enoch meaning dedication sure ties the Rapture to the Feast of Dedication, Hanukkah.
For the meaning of Enoch, Strong's says initiated, but BDB says dedicated. In Strong's, the Hebrew word for dedication is chanukkah. The Greek word is egkainia, renewal. They would both fit the Rapture on Hanukkah. It last 8 days, and 8 means new beginning. That fits renewal. There was a miracle on Hanukkah, and the Rapture will be a miracle.
On the Festival of Lights, the lampstand is lit. When the Church is in Heaven with Christ, the lamps of the wise virgins are lit. Everything dovetails nicely.
Probably as a sign, Obama kept a different Festival of Lights on his recent trip to India. It was in the news.
> > It is during Hanukkah that Jesus tells the Jews that His sheep listen to His voice:
That sure seems to nail it.
> > Do not lose your hope. Maranatha!
Don't worry about that one. We're steeped in hope. Agape
Incoming e-mail, Re:
Lyle Cooper (16 Nov 2010)
"RE: Daniel Matson (15 Nov 2010) ,"Hanukkah 2010 and Solving Daniel's 1290 Days"
Let's start with what is written. We have five different passages in Revelation giving us the last half of the week. Two as 1260 days, 2 as 42 months, and one as time, times and half of time. These all speak of events that will begin at the midpoint of the week, and go to the end of the week. We might say, this is "iron-clad," or "etched in stone." It is the word of God can cannot be broken. Therefore we can be sure that the second half of the week will be EXACTLY 1260 days. That means it will not be 1259 days, or 1261 days, or 1290 days.
In Daniel 9:29, we read the word "midst" which comes from a root word which means to divide in half. Therefore, as we see the second half of the week is 1260 days, we can be sure the first half of the week will be the same, else half or midst becomes meaningless.
Now, let's examine Daniel chapter 12.
1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
What time is "that time?" If we compare with the words of Jesus in Matt. 24, we can see that "that time" is the time of the abomination that comes at the midpoint of the week. This time of trouble Daniel speaks of, is the days of great tribulation that Jesus spoke of, that begin shortly after the Beast declares he is God. In Revelation, this happens in chapter 11, since in 12:6 we see those in Judea fleeing because they have seen the abomination. So 12:6 is mere seconds after the abomination. What comes right after 12:6? It is Michael kicking Satan out of the heavenlies. Michael has been waiting for a long time for the abomination, and his signal to go. Here is Dan. 12:1, we see that Michael stands up, ready for this great battle. Again, all these are signs that Daniel is right at the midpoint here in verse 1.
In verse 6, Daniel heard someone ask, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" What "wonders?" I think we can go right back to verse 1 to the time of trouble such as never was. So Daniel is about to hear how long it will be to the end of the time of trouble. Daniel did not have the book of Revelation, that gave us that time five different times and three different ways. So what was the answer Daniel heard? " it shall be for a time, times, and an half." So again we get 3 1/2 years, or 42 months or 1260 days. In fact, Daniel mentioned this time in chapter 7 too:
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Now God has given this same time SEVEN DIFFERENT TIMES. Can we now believe it? it is the word of God can CANNOT be changed.
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Does this verse in any way mention a time of trouble, or "tribulation? No, not in any way. Therefore, this time of 1290 days is NOT RELATED to "great tribulation."
What exactly does this term, "great tribulation" mean? Is it a TITLE for the last half of the week? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened...
Question: do we see ANY TIME in this verse, related to how long this time of great tribulation will be? I certainly don't! So let's go on:
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Ah!! NOW we have time associated with great tribulation. It is "those days" of "great tribulation." Therefore, let's NOT associate any timing to "great tribulation" except "those days." Those days of great tribulation are DAYS, not 3 1/2 years, nor 42 months, or the last half of the week.
Next, what is it that is shortened? It is "those days." I believe then, that Jesus is telling us, the number of days has been shortened. Perhaps without shortening, the number of days would have been 1260. I don't know. What I am quit sure of, is that the count of days of great tribulation will be shortened from what it would have been without the shortening.
HOW does God shorten those days of great tribulation? Well, what does the book of Revelation show us that God DOES when the beast is at his peak of destruction? God starts pouring out the vials of His wrath! God is ANGRY that Satan is using the Beast to put to death the saints! I think, the more people put to death, the more wrath God has! So as the vials are poured out, the Beast, and his armies doing the killing, will find it harder and harder to get anything done! Finally, to the last man, they are sitting in the dark, gnawing their tongues for pain, wondering how long it will last. The Beast will have been rendered HELPLESS. In other words, His 42 months of authority are still in effect, but HE CAN ACCOMPLISH NOTHING. So "those days" of "great tribulation" have been shortened. The Beast is helpless. He still has his authority - but there is no man able to carry out anything.
Therefore, the first half of the week is 1260 days, and the last half of the week is 1260 days, so God's math is accurate. The abomination DIVIDES the week in half. The beginning of the week is "marked" by the 7th seal, the middle of the week is "marked" with the 7th trumpet and the end of the week is "marked" by the 7th vial. The entire week is marked by sevens.
Then, 30 days later, 30 days AFTER the 1260 days are ended, some event happens. I will leave it up to the readers to determine what will happen. I don't know.
12Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.,..
Then, 75 days after the end of the week, another great event happens. Again, I don't know what it will be. Coop
To: Lyle Cooper
Re: Lyle Cooper: Re: Daniel Matson (15 Nov 2010) ,"Hanukkah 2010 and Solving Daniel's 1290 Days"
Maybe I can help fill in some of the gaps.
> > Therefore we can be sure that the second half of the week will be EXACTLY 1260 days. That means it will not be 1259 days, or 1261 days, or 1290 days.
> > In Daniel 9:29, we read the word "midst" which comes from a root word which means to divide in half. Therefore, as we see the second half of the week is 1260 days, we can be sure the first half of the week will be the same, else half or midst becomes meaningless.
> > Now God has given this same time SEVEN DIFFERENT TIMES. Can we now believe it? it is the word of God can CANNOT be changed.
However, I believe the Word of God has given these day counts as ESTIMATED TIME, not the actual day count. We still use estimated time today, where a month is 30 days, there are 12 months in a year, and a year is 360 days.
Actually, on our Gregorian Calendar, a month can be 28, 29, 30 or 31 days. Our years can be 365 or 366 days. Neither type of year actually has 360 days. That is used to do quick estimates, to get in the ballpark.
Actually, the Hebrew Calendar shows the months alternating between 29 and 30 days, the number of months alternating between 12 and 13, and a year alternating between 353, 354, 355, 383, 384, and 385 days. No literal year actually has 360 days.
Estimating is not unknown in the Bible. Lev 27:14 says, "And when a man shall sanctify his house to be holy unto the LORD, then the priest shall estimate it, whether it be good or bad: as the priest shall estimate it, so shall it stand."
A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME
Three and a half years are called a time, times, and the dividing of time.
Dan 7:25 says, "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until A TIME AND TIMES AND THE DIVIDING OF TIME. That is easier to see that it is talking about estimated time. It is three and a half years regardless of the actual day count.
THE BIBLE DOESN'T MENTION PROPHETIC YEARS
Then how should we interpret the Bible's 360-day years? not as so-called prophetic years to be figured as containing an exact number of days, but as what they really are, estimated time.
> > Dan 12
11And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
> > Does this verse in any way mention a time of trouble, or "tribulation? No, not in any way. Therefore, this time of 1290 days is NOT RELATED to "great tribulation."
I think it is. To me, the 1290 days runs from Mid-Trib to the Second Advent. There will be 7 months instead of the usual 6 between Tishri 1, Day of God's Wrath, and Nisan 1, Day of the Second Advent, because it will be a Leap Year with the 13th month, Adar II, as in the year 5776 (2015/16).
The daily sacrifice will be taken away Mid-Trib, when the False Prophet will sit in the Temple pretending to be God, and will put an idol in the Temple. This is the beginning of the Great Tribulation, the last half of the 7-year Tribulation, the section that has to be shortened or no flesh would be saved.
In Mt 24:15-22, Jesus said, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation (an idol), spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) [i.e., in the first section of the Temple]. Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains [this is when many Messianic Jews will flee to Petra]: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes [there will not be time enough for that, the False Prophet's army will be killing people as fast as they can. In effect, when God says to run, run, your life may depend on it]. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And EXCEPT THOSE DAYS SHOULD BE SHORTENED, THERE SHOULD NO FLESH BE SAVED: BUT FOR THE ELECT'S SAKE THOSE DAYS SHALL BE SHORTENED."
> > Next, what is it that is shortened? It is "those days." I believe then, that Jesus is telling us, the number of days has been shortened. Perhaps without shortening, the number of days would have been 1260. I don't know. What I am quit sure of, is that the count of days of great tribulation will be shortened.
That's correct. It looks like the first half of the Tribulation will be 1260 days and the last half will be 1040 days.
Dan 8:13,14 says, "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (i.e., first half, during which the daily sacrificing begins), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
Thus, I think there will be 1260 days and 1040 days, for a total of 2300 days in the Tribulation. The last half would be short 220 days.
> > Therefore, the first half of the week is 1260 days, and the last half of the week is 1260 days, so God's math is accurate. The abomination DIVIDES the week in half.
Dan 12:7 shows that this same period of time is 3.5 years, regardless of the number of actual days. It says, "And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a TIME (1 year), TIMES (2 years), and an HALF (half a year, i.e., 3.5 years total); and when he (God) shall have accomplished to SCATTER THE POWER OF THE HOLY PEOPLE (so called, i.e., the power of the Ecclesiastic Roman Empire led by the Satan-possessed False Prophet), all these things shall be finished."
Rev 13:11,12 says, "And I beheld another beast (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) coming up out of the earth (Satan comes up out of the earth Mid-Trib and enters into the False Prophet); and he had two horns (Satan has two comings to power in a man called the son of perdition, in Judas Iscariot and in the False Prophet) like a lamb (Christ), and he spake as a dragon (Satan). And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (i.e., the Pope) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast (the Pope), whose deadly wound was healed."
Isa 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable (i.e., the Pope), he is the head (the 6th head of the great red dragon); and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail" (because he, the seventh head, is possessed by Satan, the tail of the great red dragon).
> > The beginning of the week is "marked" by the 7th seal, the middle of the week is "marked" with the 7th trumpet and the end of the week is "marked" by the 7th vial. The entire week is marked by sevens.
To me, the end of the Tribulation week of years will be marked by the 7th seal and the 7 trumpets. They all will sound on one day, the day the two pieces of Satan's asteroid, called Wormwood in Rev. 8:8-11, impact Earth. The mountain-sized piece will hit the Mediterranean Sea. Wormwood, Satan's home, the one called a "star" (aster, star, meteorite or asteroid), will obliterate Babylon III near the Euphrates River and form the perpetual Lake of Fire. No man will ever walk there again.
> > Then, 30 days later, 30 days AFTER the 1260 days are ended, some event happens. I will leave it up to the readers to determine what will happen. I don't know.
1290 DAYS, A LEAP YEAR WITH A 13TH MONTH
That event will be the Second Advent. There are 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath, when Babylon is obliterated, and the Second Advent, because that year, probably 5776, our 2015/16, will be a Leap Year. That year must follow a Sabbatic Year like 5775, which divides by 7 equally, because Christ should return on Nisan 1, the first day of a Jubilee year.
> > 12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.,..
> > Then, 75 days after the end of the week, another great event happens. Again, I don't know what it will be.
Dan. 12:12,13 tells us what happens at the end of the 1335 days. Daniel will stand in his own plot of ground in Israel. That is when the land that was assigned to the 12 tribes of Israel will be given back to them. Agape
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