Pro and Con 1599

Posted 4-1-2011

Penguin convention

The Fig Tree Parable

Luke 21:29-31 says, "And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (surrounding nations); 30 When they now shoot forth (as in Arab countries around Israel right now), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand (spring started March 21). 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

The Bible only speaks of summer and winter. Therefore, when it says, "summer is now nigh", it means spring is nigh. When it says that winter is nigh, it means autumn is nigh.

Posted on Five Doves

Bill Griese (25 March 2011)
"I agree with Marilyn Agee's post yesterday"

Lukewarm Laodicea: saved or unsaved?

Must read: Marilyn Agee calls it correctly in her post yesterday
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2011/marilyna324.htm

My Add'l Comments: Proponents of a Single Rapture event where every Born-again Christian is raptured pretribulationly promote the Historical Time Period Theory of the Seven Churches. This view equates the Seven Churches in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 as Seven consecutive time periods throughout church history from the first century until today. They say that we are currently in the final Laodicean time period, and since the Laodiceans are lukewarm they are really not saved. Then, they maintain that those who are really saved Born-again Christians can go back to claim the Lord's promise made to the Philadelphia Church in the prior time period. Thus they try to make all today's Born-again Christians Philadelphians regardless of whether or not they fit what the scriptures say about the Philadelphians. For me, a near/far view of Revelation 2 & 3 where the seven first century Churches represent seven types of individual Christians throughout church history makes more sense, and this is backed up by the fact that numerous prophecies throughout the scriptures are fulfilled both near and far.

Re: Philadelphia Rev 3:8-10 NKJV "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."

The Philadelphia Church has persevered under persecution and has been judged by the Lord to be worthy to escape the "hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world" (the great tribulation). This just does not fit all Born-again Christians. "Because you have kept my command to persevere, ..." this denotes a reward for faithfulness and obedience. They have passed their test. Only Two of Revelation's Seven Churches were not told they needed to repent, Philadelphia and Smyrna. Smyrna was told that they would have "tribulation ten days." The other Five Churches all need to repent.

Re: Smyrna Rev 2:9-10 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life."

The Lord Jesus Christ is warning Five Churches in Revelation Chapters 2 & 3 including Laodicea that they need to Repent. One church, Sardis is called "Dead" indicating that the majority there are unsaved, but with some exceptions. "Lukewarm" just doesn't have the same connotation as "Dead." Is being "Hot" a requirement for getting or keeping salvation? I say no, but I do believe it is a requirement for making the First Rapture event, which I call the 'Open Door'. Philadelphia and Smyrna were the two churches who were not told that they needed to repent. Philadelphia was promised that they would have an "open door" to escape the hour of trial (great tribulation), and Smyrna was told that they would only have tribulation for "ten days." Please notice in Matthew Chapter 24 that the Lord Jesus calls the time prior to the Abomination of Desolation the "Birth Pangs", so really the only tribulation is the great tribulation. Escaping the great tribulation is conditional, and not every saved individual will do it. However, escaping the Wrath of God is unconditional and all saved individuals will be raptured at the "gathering together of the elect" (the 2nd Rapture event) which occurs immediately after the Sixth Seal. The difference is that the 3.5 year great tribulation contains the wrath of God, but the whole great tribulation itself is not the wrath of God. The wrath of God begins at the opening of the Seventh Seal and includes all the Trumpet and Bowl judgments. The "gathering together of the elect" in the sky removes all Born-again Christians as well as all children under the age of accountability after the Sixth Seal, before God's wrath. Matt 24:29-31, Rev 6:12-17. Many call Matt 24:27-31 the Second Coming, but this is the cutting short of Antichrist's evil reign by God's wrath, which will need a substantial amount of time for it to be poured out upon the earth before the Second Coming to the earth happens at the end of the 3.5 years.

Marilyn is looking for the First Rapture event this Spring, and I am looking for it in April 2012, 'ten days' after the Abomination of Desolation, which I believe will occur on April 11, 2012. The 'ten days' in Rev 2:10 to me is a timing clue. Regardless of the timing we need to follow the Lord's instructions to Repent daily.

Luke 21:36 "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." YBIC

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > The 'ten days' in Rev 2:10 to me is a timing clue.

To me also, but maybe applied in a different way than you think. I don't know if you will agree with me in this or not, but I will explain it and see how it seems to you.

> > For me, a near/far view of Revelation 2 & 3 where the seven first century Churches represent seven types of individual Christians throughout church history makes more sense

Just maybe those messages to the seven church groups were meant to be taken more than one way. They are very carefully worded. For a long time, I thought they were to trace the growth of the church through the ages. Now, I think I see something else too.

About the time I started to write my book about The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which Avon Books named Revelation 2000, I began to view the last book of the Bible as the script for a dramatic miracle play with Jesus as the producer and director. The setting is when the first Rapture is near. It is as if Jesus stood on the pinnacle of the Rapture and looked backward and forward through time to describe what had been, what was, and what was still to come.

I noticed that the Rapture is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters. Rev 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND." Rev 22:10 says, "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND." What time is at hand?

As Jesus signed off in 22:20, he said, "Surely I COME QUICKLY. Amen" (meaning so be it). That refers to his coming at the time of the first Rapture, AND IT IS PRESENT TENSE, He didn't say "I will come quickly, which could be anytime in the future.

If I didn't quite catch the meaning of that "quickly," in his monologue to the seven churches in 2:5, he said, "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee QUICKLY, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent."

In 3:11, he told the Philadelphians, "Behold, I COME QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

In this play, the producer, like our movie producers today, presented us with a Preview.

In Rev 1:9-11, John, cast as both narrator and actor in this play, said, "I John, who also am your brother, and COMPANION IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (i.e., the Day of Christ, not the great and terrible Day of the Lord, which is the Day of God's Wrath), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last".

Right away, John saw Christ, the 7 churches and the star performers of the 7 churches in Heaven. That was a quick and effective Preview of the Rapture.

After that, John was told in 1:19, "Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture, as following Rev. 4:1). There in a nut shell, you have the major outline of The Revelation of Jesus Christ.

John starts to write as Jesus gives his monologue to the seven church groups. He looks both backward and forward in time as he describes the churches. He did such a terrific job that we can see both church history and future events reflected in these messages.

Rev 2:1 says, "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus meaning desirable) write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks"

Jesus is speaking from Heaven. We saw him there with the seven candlesticks and the seven stars in the Preview. So this is how the church of Ephesus looks to him when the Rapture is near.

There is some time left before the Rapture takes place. It is near, but not quite here, maybe ten days future. Therefore, in Rev 2:5, Jesus said, "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I WILL COME UNTO THEE QUICKLY, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place (it was in Heaven in the Preview), except thou repent."

Rev 2:6 says, "But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

This fits today, not just something way back in the past. The Nicolaitans are the group that set up a church hierarchy with a Pontifex Maximus at its head. Why is that so bad? Christ is our high priest. Given to anyone else, the title of high priest is "the name of blasphemy" (Rev 13:1). Without authority to do so, the Pontifex Maximus is usurping a title that belongs to Christ.

Rev 13:1-4 says, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (the great red dragon) rise up out of the sea (nations and people, 17:15), having seven heads (Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, the Holy Roman Empire, the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire, and Babylon III) and ten horns (kings), and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads (plural, i.e., on all 7) THE NAME OF BLASPHEMY (Pontifex Maximus). 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Media-Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Babylon): and the dragon (Satan) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads (the 6th, the first beast of Rev 13) as it were wounded to death (i.e., the Holy Roman Empire); and his deadly wound was healed (it's now the Ecclesiastical Roman Empire): and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped THE DRAGON (Satan) WHICH GAVE POWER UNTO THE BEAST: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? (no one) who is able to make war with him?" (no one).

All through the ages, the title Pontifex Maximus has been given to the high priest of the Mystery Religion of Babylon. The first Pontifex Maximus was Nimrod. The last will probably be the False Prophet. Rev 2:7 says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Rev 2:9-11 is the message given to the church in Smyrna. It says, "I know thy works, and TRIBULATION, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a CROWN OF LIFE. 11 He that hath an ear, LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHES" (plural).

Just maybe, in The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus is looking forward and backward through time from the vantage point of ten days before the Rapture. That would give the churches ten days to repent.

When is the crown of life presented to believers? at the Rapture. Jas 1:12 says, "Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the CROWN OF LIFE, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."

If the Rapture is supposed to take place on Nisan 2, 5771, April 6, 2011, the anniversary of the Crucificion on the Julian Calendar, ten days before that would be March 28, next Monday. Just maybe Jesus' view presented in The Revelation of Jesus Christ is as if he were looking at the world from our vantage point today. If so, The Revelation of Jesus Christ was written especially for us at this time. Who needs to know what is coming more than we do? We seem to be practically standing before the open door. Ten days is time to repent though. (I hope we don't have to wait until 2012, but I can be wrong.)

Rev 2:18-29 says, "And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira (meaning thoroughly married) write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last (at Babylon III) to be more than the first (at Babel I). 20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel (meaning chaste), which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication (i.e., join together), and to eat things sacrificed unto IDOLS. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (join) with her into GREAT TRIBULATION (the last half of the 7 yr. Tribulation), except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. 24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, AS MANY AS HAVE NOT THIS DOCTRINE, AND WHICH HAVE NOT KNOWN THE DEPTHS OF SATAN, AS THEY SPEAK; I WILL PUT UPON YOU NONE OTHER BURDEN. 25 BUT THAT WHICH YE HAVE ALREADY HOLD FAST TILL I COME. 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers (Rev 18:21): even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star (Saturn, the third Heaven, is a morning star in Virgo right now). 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

> > Philadelphia Rev 3:8-10 NKJV "I know your works. See, I have set before you an OPEN DOOR, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

I think this shows that the church of Philadelphia applies to the church right before the Rapture. Heaven's door may open 10 days before the Rapture.

Rev 3:10,11 says to the Philadelphian wise virgins, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the HOUR OF TEMPTATION (maybe to take the Mark of the Beast), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." 11 Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."

> > However, escaping the Wrath of God is unconditional and all saved individuals will be raptured at the "gathering together of the elect" (the 2nd Rapture event) which occurs immediately after the Sixth Seal.

I agree. That's the Last-Trump Rapture.

> > the whole great tribulation itself is not the wrath of God. The wrath of God begins at the opening of the Seventh Seal and includes all the Trumpet and Bowl judgments.

I agree.

> > Many call Matt 24:27-31 the Second Coming, but this is the cutting short of Antichrist's evil reign by God's wrath, which will need a substantial amount of time for it to be poured out upon the earth before the Second Coming to the earth happens at the end of the 3.5 years.

I'm convinced that the Second Advent will be 7 months after the Day of God's Wrath. That's because Eze 39:12,13 says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. 13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD." The reason it will be 7 months between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1 is because 5776 is a Leap Year with the 13th month. Nisan 1, 5776 (April 9, 2016) is the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Year. I think it will be the day of Christ's Second Advent.

To the Laodicean foolish virgins, Jesus said, (Rev 3:21) "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne". I think that the throne of Jesus is on Saturn.

In II Cor 12:1-4, Paul was caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness of the THRONE was the likeness as the appearance of a man (THE ONLY GOD/MAN, compare verse 1 with verse 26) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's rings). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

> > Marilyn is looking for the First Rapture event this Spring, and I am looking for it in April 2012, 'ten days' after the Abomination of Desolation, which I believe will occur on April 11, 2012. The 'ten days' in Rev 2:10 to me is a timing clue. Regardless of the timing we need to follow the Lord's instructions to Repent daily.

Amen to your "Repent daily," but ten days after the Abomination of Desolation (Mid-Trib) would put the church in the Great Tribulation. I doubt that we would be here that long.

The setting of Rev 17 is the time of the First-Trump Rapture. Rev 17:10-14 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen (the rulers of Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, the Holy Roman Empire, the Roman Ecclesiastical Empire, and Babylon III) and ONE IS (the Pontifex Maximus, ruler of the Roman Ecclesiastical Empire), and THE OTHER (the False Prophet) IS NOT YET COME; and when he cometh (Mid-Trib), he must continue a short space (the shortened Great Tribulation). 11 And the beast (Satan) that was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man now), even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition (the son of perdition, the False Prophet). 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN AND FAITHFUL."

Therefore, I think that we can be here no longer than Mid-Trib. Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the evil one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (i.e., of the Tribulation) with the unbelievers." Mat 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (i.e., of the Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

We must be called, and chosen, and faithful. Mat 22:13,14 says, "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness (outside the door darkness); there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen."

I think the Day of God's Wrath that ends the Great Tribulation will be Tishri 1, 5776, Sept. 14, 2015. 5776 is a Leap Year with the 13th month. Therefore, 7 months between Tishri 1 and the beginning of the Jubilee Year on Nisan 1 is possible. That's why Dan 12:11 adds 30 days to the 1260. In that terminal year, there is an extra month.

Also, 5775 is a Sabbatic Year, therefore the Jubilee Year can begin at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5776 (April 9, 2016). To me, that date seems locked in by the Sabbatic Year 5775.

I think the Day of God's Wrath will be Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015. I think the Jubilee Year will be announced on Tishri 10, 5776 (Sept 23, 2015), and the Second Advent will be 7 months later, on Nisan 1, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years.

Seven years before 2015 was 2008. The Rapture seems overdue already. That's understandable, because the Great Tribulation is shortened, but how can the Rapture happen in 2012?

I would appreciate knowing more about how you figure April 11, 2012 for the Rapture. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: THE 'GREAT MULTITUDE' IN HEAVEN ARE GENTILES, NOT JEWS

Revelation 7:9
"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, FROM EVERY NATION, TRIBE. PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE......"

These are Gentiles "from every nation, tribe, people and language", NOT JEWS. How did this "great multitude" of Gentile 'believers' get into heaven? This can only be the recently raptured 'Gentile Church' because after the rapture God sends a "strong delusion" to the non-raptured Gentile 'unbelievers' so "that they should believe the lie, that they ALL MAY BE CONDEMED who did not believe the truth" before the rapture.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 & 9 & 11
"...He who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.....The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception AMONG THOSE WHO PERISH, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. And for this reason, GOD WILL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE THE LIE, THAT THEY ALL MAY BE CONDEMNED WHO DID NOT BELIEVE THE TRUTH but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

According to this Scripture, GOD WILL CONDEMN ALL 'GENTILE UNBELIEVERS' LEFT BEHIND AFTER THE RAPTURE by sending them A STRONG DELUSION SO THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE THE LIE AND PERISH. There will be very few, IF ANY, Gentiles saved AFTER the rapture - let alone a 'great multitude' of them - according to this Scripture.

The 'great multitude' in heaven wearing white robes and standing before the throne in front of the Lamb is the raptured Gentile Church. I want to stand with them.

According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus!

My reply

> > THE 'GREAT MULTITUDE' IN HEAVEN ARE GENTILES, NOT JEWS.......
> > Revelation 7:9
> > "After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, FROM EVERY NATION, TRIBE. PEOPLE AND LANGUAGE......"
> > These are Gentiles "from every nation, tribe, people and language", NOT JEWS.

To me, "EVERY nation, tribe, people and language" includes Israel and the Jews.

> > How did this "great multitude" of Gentile 'believers' get into heaven?

In the second Rapture, the Last-Trump Rapture that takes place on the Day of God's Wrath just before the two asteroids of Rev 8:8-11 impact Earth.

> > This can only be the recently raptured 'Gentile Church' because after the rapture God sends a "strong delusion" to the non-raptured Gentile 'unbelievers' so "that they should believe the lie, that they ALL MAY BE CONDEMED who did not believe the truth" before the rapture.

THE LIE follows the First-Trump Rapture, and is so those perish that "RECEIVED NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH" (2Th 2:10). That does not apply to us. We love the truth, and work hard to understand it, comparing scripture with scripture.

Here is how I understand the 144,000 Israelites. Of those caught up in the second Rapture, the one that is on the Day of God's Wrath, only 144,000 of the Israelites will be called "VIRGINS" and sing the NEW SONG. It looks like they will become part of the Bride of Christ, because they are called "virgins" who are "WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God."

See if that sounds right to you. Rev 14:3-5 says, "And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God."

> > 2 Thessalonians 2:7 & 9 & 11
"...He who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.....The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception AMONG THOSE WHO PERISH, BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RECEIVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH, THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED. And for this reason, GOD WILL SEND THEM STRONG DELUSION, THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE THE LIE, THAT THEY ALL MAY BE CONDEMNED WHO DID NOT BELIEVE THE TRUTH but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

> > According to this Scripture, GOD WILL CONDEMN ALL 'GENTILE UNBELIEVERS' LEFT BEHIND AFTER THE RAPTURE by sending them A STRONG DELUSION SO THAT THEY SHOULD BELIEVE THE LIE AND PERISH. There will be very few, IF ANY, Gentiles saved AFTER the rapture - let alone a 'great multitude' of them - according to this Scripture.

The strong delusion follows the first Rapture. It is for those that do not love the truth.

At the second Rapture, a great multitude out of every nation will be saved. Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a GREAT MULTITUDE, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

These are Tribulation saints. Rev 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes (i.e., by confessing their sins committed after accepting Christ to bring those under the blood of Christ too), and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

> > The 'great multitude' in heaven wearing white robes and standing before the throne in front of the Lamb is the raptured Gentile Church. I want to stand with them.

I do too. We see these saints in Heaven in Rev. 5:9,10. It says, "And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to OPEN THE SEALS thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Notice that the first-raptured saints are in Heaven before the first seal is broken (Rev 5:9; 6:1f). The last-raptured saints are in Heaven after the sixth seal is broken (Rev 6:12; 7:14). So six seals are broken between the two Raptures. The wrath of God follows the breaking of the seventh seal (Rev 8:1f). Agape

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