Pro and Con 1600

Posted 4-5-2011

Saturn can have on it both amber, as in Eze 1:27,
and emerald, as in Rev 4:3

A SIGN IN THE SUN: "CME event APRIL 04, 2011"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7nwkQ5qkAc

The Muslim Brotherhood

By Jon Christian Ryter http://www.jonchristianryter.com/2011/110405.html An eye-opener. The intent of the Muslim Brotherhood is to topple Muslim governments that are allied with the USA. That's why they ousted Hosni Mubarak in Egypt.

Iranian Video Says Mahdi is 'Near'

...their goal is to instigate further uprisings in Arab countries...

By Erick Stakelbeck
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2011/March/Iranian-Regime-Video-Says-Mahdi-is-Near-/

New evidence has emerged that the Iranian government sees the current unrest in the Middle East as a signal that the Mahdi--or Islamic messiah--is about to appear.

CBN News has obtained a never-before-seen video produced by the Iranian regime that says all the signs are moving into place -- and that Iran will soon help usher in the end times....

It's called The Coming is Near and it describes current events in the Middle East as a prelude to the arrival of the mythical tweflth Imam or Mahdi -- the messiah figure who Islamic scriptures say will lead the armies of Islam to victory over all non-Muslims in the last days....

The video claims that Iran is destined to rise as a great power in the last days to help defeat America and Israel and usher in the return of the Mahdi....

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadenijad, who the video says will conquer Jerusalem prior to the Mahdi's coming....

Incoming e-mail, Re: THE 'FALLING AWAY', 'REBELLION', 'APOSTASY', or 'DEPARTING' COMES FIRST, AND BEGIN WHEN

John 5:43
"I have come in My Father's name, and YOU DO NOT RECEIVE ME; if another comes in his own name, HIM YOU WILL RECEIVE."

2 Thessalonians 2:9
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders."

Matthew 24:24
"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NKJV)
"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that day will not come unless THE FALLING AWAY COMES FIRST"

"THAT DAY" will come AFTER the 'falling away', or 'rebellion', or 'apostasy', or 'departing' from God and the Word of God begins when the one who "comes in his own name" is received by the gullible and mesmerized world. The majority of the Jews believe that he is the 'Savior' that they have been waiting for ever since they crucified the Lord Jesus Christ. The 'watching Church' will not be fooled, but will know that the rapture is eminent. According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus!

My reply

> > 2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NKJV)
> > "Let no one deceive you by any means; for that day will not come unless THE FALLING AWAY COMES FIRST"

> > "THAT DAY" will come AFTER the 'falling away', or 'rebellion', or 'apostasy', or 'departing' from God and the Word of God begins when the one who "comes in his own name" is received by the gullible and mesmerized world.

Departing from God and the Word of God is present in the world right now. How can it begin when the False Prophet is revealed?

Let's look at the text of the NKJV again, adding the information in the NKJV footnotes.
"2 Thessalonians 2:2 NU-Text reads the Lord.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 NU-Text reads lawlessness.
2 Thessalonians 2:4 NU-Text omits as God.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 Or he
2 Thessalonians 2:7 Or he "
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2+Thessalonians+2&version=NKJV

This is about "our gathering together to Him" (Christ) at the First-Trump Rapture.

Here is what I think the NKJV is really saying. My comments are in parentheses. 1 "Now, brethren (believers), concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our (ours and Paul's) gathering together to Him (at the first Rapture), we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ [a] [the Lord] (Day of the Lord, Day of God's Wrath) had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day (Day of the Lord) will not come unless the falling away (he apostasia, the departure, as when one leaves after a divorce, i.e., when we leave at the First-Trump Rapture) comes FIRST, and the man of sin[b] [lawlessness] is revealed (SECOND), the son of perdition (i.e., the False Prophet), 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits (Mid-Trib) as God[c] [omit 'as God'] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what (the Holy Spirit in us) is restraining (the revealing of the False Prophet), that he (the False Prophet) may be revealed in his own time (Mid-Trib). 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[d] [Or he] (He, the Holy Spirit) who now restrains (keeps the False Prophet from being revealed ahead of time) will do so until He[e] [Or he] (He, the Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way (at the First-Trump Rapture). 8 And then (after the Rapture) the lawless one (the False Prophet) will be revealed (he won't go to Heaven in the Rapture of the temple of the Holy Spirit, the literal Temple will be built after the Rapture, sacrificing will start, and he will sit in the Temple as if he is God), whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming" (at the Second Advent). 1Co 3:16 (KJV) says, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

As long as we are on Earth, it looks like the literal Temple won't be built and the False Prophet won't be revealed.

To me, he apostasia, "the departure," is the Rapture.

Below is the World English Bible translation of 2 Thessalonians 2.

1 "Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you 2 not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ (it should be day of the Lord) had come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it (the Day of the Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath) will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE (i.e., the Day of Christ) COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed (Mid-Trib), the son of destruction, 4 he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. 5 Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? 6 Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one (the Holy Spirit) who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way (at the time of the Rapture). 8 Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; 9 even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn't receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 Because of this, God sends them a working of error, that they should believe a lie; 12 that they all might be judged who didn't believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

Below is the Tyndale New Testament translation. http://worldebible.com/2_thessalonians/2.htm

2 Thessalonians 2
1 "We beseech you brethren by the coming of our Lord Iesu Christ, and in that we shall assemble unto him, 2 that ye be not suddenly moved from your mind, and be not troubled, neither by spirit, neither by words, nor yet by letter, which should seem to come from us, as though the day of Christ (should be day of the Lord) were at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for THE LORD COMETH NOT, EXCEPT THERE COME A DEPARTING FIRST, and that that sinful man be opened, the son of perdition (the False Prophet) 4 which is an adversary (he's Satan possessed), and is exalted above all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he shall sit in the temple of god, and shew himself as god. 5 Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"

Here is the "Bible Book Summary,"
the 2 Thessalonians Summary,
by Jay Smith

"In chapters 2-3, speaking of the return of Jesus Christ, Paul was sure to include the signs and setting that “the man of lawlessness” (the antichrist) had to arrive first, for that to occur, the “restrainer” (Holy Spirit) must be removed from restraining him. The Holy Spirit indwells all believers and when He is removed, all believers will be “caught up” in the clouds with the Lord Jesus" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). Agape

Incoming e-mail

Mar 29, 2011 - Jerusalem (CNN) -- A controversial Facebook page calling for another Palestinian intifada appears to have been pulled off the social media website, following complaints from the Israeli government that it incited violence against Jews....

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/meast/03/29/palestinian.facebook/index.html

Facebook's Original Message:

ALERT

Neighboring countries will begin marching to Palestine on 15 May to liberate Palestine....

My comments

Luke 21:20-31 says, "And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies (May 15, 2011?), then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains (Mid-Trib); and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For THESE BE THE DAYS OF VENGEANCE, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES BE FULFILLED.

25 And THERE SHALL BE SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING (i.e., Japan's 33' tsunami); 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory (the Sign of the Son of Man). 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH. 29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (other nations); 30 When they now SHOOT FORTH, ye see and know of your own selves that SUMMER IS NOW NIGH AT HAND. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand."

Remember this? "Closing Market ... Dow, down 777.68 ... S&P, down 106.85 ...Sep 29, 2008 ... Wall Street's worst fears came to pass today, when the government's financial bailout plan failed in Congress and stocks plunged ... blog.cleveland.com"

Mon, 29 September 2008 = 29th of Elul, 5768. That was the Eve of Trumpets.

Roughing it out. Trumpets 2008 + 7 = Trumpets 2015.
2008 + 3.5 = 2011.5 for Mid-Trib.
That sounds like the Rapture should be soon. I sure hope so.

Incoming e-mail, Re: THE ABOMINATION 'THAT CAUSES' TRIBULATION

During the 'first 30-days' of his reign, BEFORE he receives the great power and authority of Satan at the mid-point of the '70th Week of Daniel', the abomination's power 'is relatively limited' to the 'desolation and tribulation' of Jerusalem and Judea (Israel).

Daniel 12:11
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination that causes DESOLATION (TRIBULATION) is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

Matthew 24;15-16 & 21
"Therefore when you see the abomination that causes DESOLATION (TRIBULATION), spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place, then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. For then there will be GREAT TRIBULATION (GREAT DESOLATION), such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be."

Luke 21:20-23
"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its DESOLATION (TRIBULATION) is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country (Israel) enter her. For these are the days of VENGEANCE (TRIBULATION and DESOLATION), that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be GREAT TRIBULATION (GREAT DESOLATION) in the land (of Israel) and wrath upon this (Hebrew) people."

At the end of the first 30-days of his power limited to the 'desolation and tribulation' of Israel is when he receives the full power and authority of Satan at the mid-point of the '70th Week of Daniel'. The anti-Christ then expands his 'desolation and tribulation' to include the whole world for the next 42-months (ie. the last-half) of the '70th Week of Daniel'.

Revelation 13;2 & 5
"The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority."
"The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies AND TO EXERCISE HIS AUTHORITY FOR FORTY-TWO MONTHS."

According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus!

My reply

> > Daniel 12:11
> > "And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination that causes DESOLATION (TRIBULATION) is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

I think this scripture gives us an important clue to help us understand which year is the the final one of the Tribulation.

Let's reason together. Two heads are often better than one.

It seems that the Tribulation will be made up of a 1260-day first half and an extended 1290-day last half, called the Great Tribulation.

I think Dan 12:11's extra 30 days is because the time between the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1 is 7 months long instead of the usual 6. I think this clue shows us that the terminal year of the Tribulation is a Hebrew Leap Year with a 13th month.

Eze 39:11-13 mentions those 7 months. It says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. 12 And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. 13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

Which years are Leap Years and therefore candidates for the terminal year of the Tribulation?

5771 (2010/11)
5774 (2013/14)
5776 (2015/16)
5779 (2018/19)
5782 (2021/22)

Not only will the final year be a Leap Year, but it will also be a Jubilee Year, because the Israelites will be returned to their inherited plot of land.

Dan 12:12,13 says, "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days (i.e., that follow the Second Advent). 13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot (i.e., portion of land determined by lot) at the end of the days."

A Jubilee year has to be preceeded by a Sabbatic Year. The following are Sabbatic years.

5768
5775
5782

Only one of these Sabbatic Years, 5775, has a leap year following it - 5776 (2015/2016). Therefore, this seems like our only choice for the terminal year.

If Tishri 1, 5776, the Feast of Trumpets, (Sept 14, 2015), is the Day of God's Wrath in that terminal year, the Tribulation started on Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5769 (May 29, 2009).

The Great Tribulation is to be shortened. In Mt 24:22, Jesus said, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved."

The terminal year, a Jubilee year, has to follow a Sabbatic Year. Which years are Sabbatic?

5775 (2014/15)
5782 (2021/22)

To me, 5775 being Sabbatic makes 5776 (2015/16) the terminal year.

The Fig Tree Parable shows that there will be one generation (48.33 years, according to Mt 1:17) from when Israel grew leaves (Sinai, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golen Heights) in the Six-Day War. 1967 + 48.33 = 2015.33, or Tishri 1, 5776, the Day of God's Wrath.

We have another sign. The Tetrad of Blood-Moon Lunar eclipses at Passover and Tabernacles are in 2014 and 2015.

That seems like smooth sailing, but there is a potential problem. 5776 - 7 = 5769. That would make the present year, 5771, the second year of the Tribulation. Is that possible?

I expected the Rapture to take place before the Tribulation began, but evidently, it didn't. What clues have I missed?

Ron Reese thinks we are in the second year of the Tribulation. He says that Jacob/Israel was saved from starvation by Joseph (type of Christ) bringing his family to Egypt in the second year of the seven-year famine. Ron expects the Rapture this year, and now, so do I.

We are in 5771 now. 5771 + 7 = 5778, which is not a Leap Year. However, the last half of the Tribulation, called the Great Tribulation, is to be shortened. Maybe 5776 is the terminal year after all. It seems to be locked in place by the Jubilee Year having to follow a Sabbatic Year.

This way, the Second Advent would be on Nisan 1, 5776, the first day of the Jubilee, Regnal and Sacred years.

If this is God's plan, the 2300-day Tribulation spoken of in Dan 8:13,14 would have started on Pentecost, May 29, 2009. Mid-Trib would be about Nov 9, 2012. The Day of God's Wrath would be the Feast of Trumpets, Sept 14, 2015. The Jubilee Year would be announced on the Day of Atonement Sept 23, 2015. The Second Advent would be on the following Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the first day of the Jubilee Year.

I'm hoping to be caught up to Heaven in the Rapture April 6, 2011 (Nisan 2, 5771), the anniversary of the Crucifixion on Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790 (April 6, 30 AD). If not April 6, Ascension Day (May 29, 2011) sounds good.

Why not Nisan 1? A trumpet was to be sounded on the first day of each month. There is no trumpet sounded on Nisan 2.

It looks like Jesus will come on Nisan 1, when the trumpet sounds, and then take us to Heaven at daybreak on Nisan 2. That doesn't seem so strange, because there are two dates on Earth at the same time anyway.

Like Jacob's ladder, Song of Solomon 2:10-17 is the SECRET OF THE STAIRS.

Song 2:10-17 says, "My beloved spake, and said unto me, RISE UP, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. 11 For, lo, the winter is past (it's spring), the rain is over and gone (i.e., the rain of Nisan 1 is over and gone, so it is Nisan 2); 12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle (turtledove, which comes in April) is heard in our land; 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs (in early spring), and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell (the grapes are blossoming and setting fruit). Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. 14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ, our rock), in the SECRET places (leave out places, it is not in the Hebrew) OF THE STAIRS, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely. 15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. 16 My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies ('my love', 2:2). 17 Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether" (separation, i.e., there are two Raptures).

Does all this seem possible to you? If not, how would you change it? Agape

His reply

I hope you are right - I am also ready to go! It sure seems like a 'well reasoned out' scenario to me also, but if the '70th Week of Daniel' has already begun where is the 'covenant with many' promising peace to Israel and the 'third temple' in Jerusalem? Just like in the past when we think we have it 'all reasoned out' we miss something. What are we missing this time? I am sure the answer is in the Scriptures.

We watch together

My reply

Yes, we watch together. Please let me know if you find any more clues.

You are so right about the answer being in Scripture. Mark 13:23 says, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

> > where is the 'covenant with many' promising peace to Israel and the 'third temple' in Jerusalem?

Dan 9:26,27 (LITV) says, "And after sixty two weeks, Messiah shall be cut off (i.e., crucified), but not for Himself (for us). And the people (Romans) of a coming ruler (the False Prophet) shall destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (Temple). And its end shall be with the flood (i.e., the tsunami caused by the asteroid impact in the Mediterranean Sea, Rev 8:8), and ruins are determined, and war shall be until the end. 27 And he (the False Prophet) shall confirm a covenant with the many (maybe the UN or NATO) for one week (probably the 7 yr. Tribulation). And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease (i.e., when he sits in the Temple as if he is God). And on a corner of the altar will be abominations (idols) that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator."

My reply

Here are the non-European nations included in the European Neighbourhood Policy, at least initially:
  • Algeria
  • Armenia
  • Azerbaijan
  • Belarus
  • Egypt
  • Georgia
 
  • Israel
  • Jordan
  • Lebanon
  • Libya
  • Moldova
  • Morocco
 
  • Palestinian Authority of the
    West Bank and Gaza Strip
  • Russian Federation
  • Syria
  • Tunisia
  • Ukraine
Israel was the first non-European nation to sign on. Here is one of the main ENP documents, showing the seven-year relationship between the European Union and Israel: European Neighbourhood and Partnership Instrument: Israel, of October 24, 2006.

Israel and Hamas near a Spring war

DEBKAfile April 2, 2011
http://www.debka.com/article/20813/

After nearly two months of rising tension, Israel and Hamas have taken a step towards a full-blown military confrontation: Before dawn Saturday, April 2, an Israeli air strike killed three senior Hamas Izz al-Din Qassam Brigades gunmen in the Gaza Strip in an operation described by an Israeli army spokesman as pre-empting a major Palestinian terror-cum-kidnap campaign scheduled for Passover....

The Hamas Brigades warned Israel its "dangerous escalation" would have "consequences."

debkafile's military and intelligence sources predict that the war confrontation which Saturday brought closer to realization will be unlike any previous Israel-Palestinian showdowns in the sense that it will be less the product of the old Middle East order and fall more under the influence of the radical elements rising out of the current Arab unrest, especially in Cairo, amid the decline of Western influence....

Incoming e-mail, Re: Gerry Almond (30 March 2011) "Marilyn Agee...My Answer"

Regarding your question 3/29/11 about where the date of April 11/12 comes from:

Genesis 7 says that Noah and family were instructed to go into the ark 7 days before the rains came that began the destruction of the world of his day. He was in the ark exactly 365 days, thus 7 days plus 365 days = 372 days. From first day of the GREAT TRIB, 4/12/2012 counting back 372 days is 4/4/5/11. But because 2012 is a leap year, the date adjusts to 4/4/6/11. Seven days later is 4/12/13/2011 and 365 days later is 4/12/2012. I think the leap day may be one of the reasons that we cannot know the day or hour.

Apr 5/6/11-------------Apr 12/13/11-----------------------------------------------------Apr 11/12/12

I believe, because of the tricky leap day in 2012, the rapture may well be on April 6, 2011, could be as early as April 5 because Jerusalem time is ahead of us. I wrote a post today that sets forth a possible explanation of the 7 days. YBIC

My reply

> > Genesis 7 says that Noah and family were instructed to go into the ark 7 days before the rains came that began the destruction of the world of his day. He was in the ark exactly 365 days, thus 7 days plus 365 days = 372 days.

I understand your viewpoint. One time I assumed that Noah went into the Ark 7 days before it started to rain, but someone set me straight on that.

It's a little tricky. We have to interpret Gen 7:4 in the light of Gen 7:11-13 to see it correctly.

In Gen 7:4, Noah was told, "For YET seven days (i.e., AFTER seven days), and I WILL (in the future) cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made WILL I destroy from off the face of the earth."

Gen 7:11-13 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month (Cheshvan 17), the SAME DAY were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 IN THE SELFSAME DAY (Cheshvan 17) ENTERED NOAH, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, INTO THE ARK."

April 11/12, 2011 - 7 days = April 4/5, 2011. April 5, 2011 is Nisan 1. April 6 is Nisan 2, anniversary of the Crucifixion on April 6, 30 AD.

I think April 6, 2011 could be the day of our Rapture.

Nisan 1 is the 5th, and Christ should come on Nisan 1.

Hos 6:3 says, "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (Nisan 1) and former (Tishri 1) rain unto the earth." The First Advent was Tishri 1, and the Second Advent should be Nisan 1.

Eze 29:17 sets the day of the Second Advent as Nisan 1. It says, "And it came to pass in the seven and twentieth year, in the first month (Nisan), in the first day of the month, the WORD (Christ) of the LORD came unto me".

Then verse 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel to bud forth (at the Second Advent), and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the WORD, Christ, John 1:1) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Song of Solomon 2:10 says, "My beloved (Christ) spake, and said unto me (the Bride of Christ), Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. 11 For, lo, the winter is past (it's spring), the rain is over and gone" (i.e., Nisan 1 is over and gone). Therefore, it is Nisan 2.

Song 2:16,17 says, "My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies (the Bride of Christ, v 2). 17 Until the DAY BREAK, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains (plural) of Bether" (separation, i.e., there are 2 Raptures).

Therefore, it looks to me like Christ will come on Nisan 1 and then catch us up to Heaven at daybreak on Nisan 2.

Saturn, the location of Christ's sapphire throne (Eze 1:1, 26-28), will be a morning star at that time too. Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn from the Sanskrit Sani (Saturn) and priya (dear).

Eze 1:1 says, "THE HEAVENS WERE OPENED, AND I SAW VISIONS OF GOD."

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets, including Earth, v. 15) was the likeness (symbolic language) of a THRONE, as (symbolic language) the appearance of a SAPPHIRE STONE: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (i.e., the God/man, Jesus Christ) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This (Saturn's ring system) was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD." Rev 22:16 says, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (YHWH) and the offspring (Jesus) of David, and the bright and MORNING STAR."

Saturn will be a morning star on April 6, 2011. From midnight to at least 1:30 AM, the ONLY naked-eye planet in the sky will be Saturn.

Paul was caught up to Saturn and came back. In 2Co 12:1-4, Paul said, "I knew a man (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn). 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) :4 How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

What is special about April 6? The Crucifixion took place on Thursday, April 6, 30 AD, Nisan 13, 3790, the preparation of the Passover (Nisan 14).

Lev 23:5 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover." John 19:14 is clear. It says, "IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER (Nisan 13), and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: WE ARE IGNORING 'THE MESSAGE' GIVEN US IN THIS 'HOLY SCRIPTURE'

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NKJV)
"Now, brethern, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND OUR GATHERING TOGETHER (rapture) TO HIM, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the Day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; FOR THAT DAY WILL NOT COME UNLESS the falling away comes first, AND THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, SO THAT HE SITS AS GOD IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, SHOWING HIMSELF THAT HE IS GOD."

This Scripture tells us "that day" of our "gathering together to Him" (rapture) "will not come unless" "the man of sin is revealed" to all watching Christians "so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God". The 'third temple' must be rebuilt in Jerusalem BEFORE the anti-Christ can be revealed "so that he sits as God" in it.

According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus!

My reply

> > Re: WE ARE IGNORING 'THE MESSAGE' GIVEN US IN THIS 'HOLY SCRIPTURE'

> > the falling away comes first

There is a good reason why this "falling away" seems to be ignored. It is the wrong translation. The words "he apostasia", translated the falling away in the KJV and some other modern translations, actually means THE DEPARTURE, i.e., the Rapture. It is the Rapture that comes first.

In the KJV translation of 2Th 2:1-3, there are two errors. The "day of Christ" should be "day of the Lord", and "falling away" should be "departing".

The First-Trump Rapture will be on the Day of Christ, which will be before the Great Tribulation. The Last-Trump Rapture will be on the Day of the Lord, which will be the last day of the Great Tribulation.

2Th 2:1-3 (KJV) says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by OUR GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the DAY OF CHRIST (should be DAY OF THE LORD) is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a FALLING AWAY (should be DEPARTING, i.e., the first Rapture) FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".

The First-Trump Rapture will take place on the DAY OF CHRIST, which will precede the revealing of the False Prophet.

The Last-Trump Rapture will take place on the DAY OF THE LORD, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, the day the False Prophet will be deposed.

The following old translations had it right. Then the KJV got it wrong. This error still persists in some modern translations.

1. Wycliffe Bible (1330) has "departynge first"
2. Tyndale Bible (1525/26) has "departynge first"
3. Coverdale Bible 1535), has "departynge first"
4. Crammer Bible (1539), has "departynge first"
5. Beeches Bible (1583), has, "departing first"
6. Beza Bible (1583), has "departing first"
7. Geneva Bible (1560), has "departing first"
2Th 2:3 (Geneva) says, "Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTING FIRST, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition."

After the KJV was published, older manuscripts than those used in its translation were found that said, "Day of the Lord" instead of day of Christ. The ASV corrected that. It says, "to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the DAY OF THE LORD is just at hand".

Since the Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath, it is easy to see why they were disturbed by that news. They want the Day of Christ, day of the Rapture, not the Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: IT COULD HAPPEN THIS WAY

We are both sure that the 'Latter Rain' is coming to rapture us in the 'first month' which is Nisan.

In a future month of Nisan the anti-Christ could first be 'revealed by sitting' in the newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, and then the rapture happens soon after.

If the anti-Christ were to be revealed on the 'first day' of the month, the rapture then could happen any of the 29 days following. Or if the anti-Christ were to counterfeit the Passover he could be revealed on the 14th of Nisan, and then the rapture could happen any of the 16 days following including the 'Feast of Unleavened Bread' or the 'Feast of Firstfruits'.

In any case, I believe that FIRST the 'revealing of the anti-Christ' in the temple to watching Christians worldwide happens, then FOLLOWED SOON AFTER by the 'rapture of the Church' will BOTH HAPPEN in a future month of Nisan. Blessings

My reply

> > In a future month of Nisan the anti-Christ could first be 'revealed by sitting' in the newly rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, and then the rapture happens soon after.

Here is the order of events as I understand them:

1. Reign of the first beast of Rev 13

Rev 17:10 says, "there are seven kings: five are fallen, and ONE IS (the first beast of Rev 13), and the other (the False Prophet) is not yet come"

2. The First-Trump Rapture takes place during the reign of the first beast.

Rev 17:14 says, "they that ARE with him (the Lamb of God) are called, and chosen, and faithful"

Rev 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and ONE IS (the first beast), and the other (the False Prophet) is not yet come:

3. The revealing of the False Prophet, the 2nd beast of Rev 13

4. The Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's wrath, when the False Prophet will be deposed from office

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev 7:17 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" Agape

Posted on Five Doves site

Bruce Baber (4 Apr 2011) "Bramlet, Raul, Warner, Reese, Ola, Gerry Almond, BG Ellis, Jimmy Lishman, and all Doves...please help" I hesitate before posing the question, but I want some thoughtful, carefully, prayerfully considered answers. Psalm 90 vs. 10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. NIV I have worried a little about the extra ten years that bring the span of a generation up to eighty years. With all the signs, it doesn't seem possible. I don't want to face the fact that the end-time generation could linger on for those extra ten years. Yet, maybe Moses included those words for a reason. He even added that those additional ten years would be full of trouble and sorrow. Then the thought occurred to me. What if there is a delay between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation. That could explain why we haven't seen the destruction of Damascus yet. That could explain why the Jews will have seven years to burn the weapons from the Gog Magog war. I've stated before that the burning of weapons for seven years would be a difficult feat in view of the antichrist's invasion of Israel. (See my earlier posts on the subject). If the rapture is followed immediately by the tribulation there is no allowing for the destruction of Damascus and the war of Gog and Magog with the resulting burning of the weapons of war for seven years. If there is a delay of the tribulation, everything still fits...I think. I am not advocating this postion. I am just pondering it in light of the yet unfulfilled prophecies in the scriptures and trying to see all of the puzzle pieces fit. I don't easily accept ideas that that I haven't tested for myself. Just because a Bible scholar says something, I don't necessarily go blindly along with it. So if someone says the the tribulation has to immediately follow the rapture because someone else said so, that may not be a good enough reason. I would appreciate some well thought out feedback. Please don't attack me for asking. We aren't at the end of seventy years from 1948. We are just at 63 years. We round it up to 70 by adding the 7 years of the tribulation. How does this all fit if 10 years are added to the lifespan of a generation? Could the rapture still be this spring? Or, do we have to wait several more years? You know from my earlier posts that I strongly advocated a spring rapture this year. I am still looking for it. Would the destruction of Damascus followed by the war of Gog and Magog in the interval between the rapture and the start of the seven years of tribulation fit with Psalm 90 and bring into line all of the other remaining prophecies? (I also wonder if Rabbi Kaduri's prediction about the death of Ariel Sharon before the Messiah's return could happen in the interval). I apologize for asking these questions and for adding to the confusion. That isn't my intention at all. Bruce Baber (4 Apr 2011) "Bramlet, Raul, Warner, Reese, Ola, Gerry Almond, BG Ellis, Jimmy Lishman, and all Doves...please help" I hesitate before posing the question, but I want some thoughtful, carefully, prayerfully considered answers. Psalm 90 vs. 10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. NIV I have worried a little about the extra ten years that bring the span of a generation up to eighty years. With all the signs, it doesn't seem possible. I don't want to face the fact that the end-time generation could linger on for those extra ten years. Yet, maybe Moses included those words for a reason. He even added that those additional ten years would be full of trouble and sorrow. Then the thought occurred to me. What if there is a delay between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation. That could explain why we haven't seen the destruction of Damascus yet. That could explain why the Jews will have seven years to burn the weapons from the Gog Magog war. I've stated before that the burning of weapons for seven years would be a difficult feat in view of the antichrist's invasion of Israel. (See my earlier posts on the subject). If the rapture is followed immediately by the tribulation there is no allowing for the destruction of Damascus and the war of Gog and Magog with the resulting burning of the weapons of war for seven years. If there is a delay of the tribulation, everything still fits...I think. I am not advocating this postion. I am just pondering it in light of the yet unfulfilled prophecies in the scriptures and trying to see all of the puzzle pieces fit. I don't easily accept ideas that that I haven't tested for myself. Just because a Bible scholar says something, I don't necessarily go blindly along with it. So if someone says the the tribulation has to immediately follow the rapture because someone else said so, that may not be a good enough reason. I would appreciate some well thought out feedback. Please don't attack me for asking. We aren't at the end of seventy years from 1948. We are just at 63 years. We round it up to 70 by adding the 7 years of the tribulation. How does this all fit if 10 years are added to the lifespan of a generation? Could the rapture still be this spring? Or, do we have to wait several more years? You know from my earlier posts that I strongly advocated a spring rapture this year. I am still looking for it. Would the destruction of Damascus followed by the war of Gog and Magog in the interval between the rapture and the start of the seven years of tribulation fit with Psalm 90 and bring into line all of the other remaining prophecies? (I also wonder if Rabbi Kaduri's prediction about the death of Ariel Sharon before the Messiah's return could happen in the interval). I apologize for asking these questions and for adding to the confusion. That isn't my intention at all. Bruce Baber (4 Apr 2011) "Bramlet, Raul, Warner, Reese, Ola, Gerry Almond, BG Ellis, Jimmy Lishman, and all Doves...please help" I hesitate before posing the question, but I want some thoughtful, carefully, prayerfully considered answers. Psalm 90 vs. 10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty, if our strength endures; yet the best of them are but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away. NIV I have worried a little about the extra ten years that bring the span of a generation up to eighty years. With all the signs, it doesn't seem possible. I don't want to face the fact that the end-time generation could linger on for those extra ten years. Yet, maybe Moses included those words for a reason. He even added that those additional ten years would be full of trouble and sorrow. Then the thought occurred to me. What if there is a delay between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation. That could explain why we haven't seen the destruction of Damascus yet. That could explain why the Jews will have seven years to burn the weapons from the Gog Magog war. I've stated before that the burning of weapons for seven years would be a difficult feat in view of the antichrist's invasion of Israel. (See my earlier posts on the subject). If the rapture is followed immediately by the tribulation there is no allowing for the destruction of Damascus and the war of Gog and Magog with the resulting burning of the weapons of war for seven years. If there is a delay of the tribulation, everything still fits...I think. I am not advocating this postion. I am just pondering it in light of the yet unfulfilled prophecies in the scriptures and trying to see all of the puzzle pieces fit. I don't easily accept ideas that that I haven't tested for myself. Just because a Bible scholar says something, I don't necessarily go blindly along with it. So if someone says the the tribulation has to immediately follow the rapture because someone else said so, that may not be a good enough reason. I would appreciate some well thought out feedback. Please don't attack me for asking. We aren't at the end of seventy years from 1948. We are just at 63 years. We round it up to 70 by adding the 7 years of the tribulation. How does this all fit if 10 years are added to the lifespan of a generation? Could the rapture still be this spring? Or, do we have to wait several more years? You know from my earlier posts that I strongly advocated a spring rapture this year. I am still looking for it. Would the destruction of Damascus followed by the war of Gog and Magog in the interval between the rapture and the start of the seven years of tribulation fit with Psalm 90 and bring into line all of the other remaining prophecies? (I also wonder if Rabbi Kaduri's prediction about the death of Ariel Sharon before the Messiah's return could happen in the interval). I apologize for asking these questions and for adding to the confusion. That isn't my intention at all.

My reply

> > Psalm 90 vs. 10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty I think that's a life span, not a generation. Webster's online calls a generation "the average span of time between the BIRTH of parents and that of their offspring". Not many 70 or 80 year olds have babies. My Webster's Collegiate suggests 33 years for a generation. That's got to be an average. More have babies in their teens than at 40. I go by Mt 1:17. It says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." That works out to be 48.33 years per generation (2030 divided by 42 = 48.33). We can add 48.33 years to Sivan 1, 5727, June 9, 1967, next to the last day of the Six-Day War, and get Tishri 1, 5775, Sept 14, 2015. The 4 extra months are Sivan, Tamuz, Av and Elul. > > What if there is a delay between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation. That could explain why we haven't seen the destruction of Damascus yet. It looks like Damascus will cease to be a city when the asteroid of Rev 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea on the Day of God's Wrath. > > That could explain why the Jews will have seven years to burn the weapons from the Gog Magog war. I think those 7 years follow the Day of God's Wrath. I too expect the Rapture this spring, maybe Ascension Day, May 29, 2011. Song of Solomon 2:10-17 suggests spring. The rain has to be over and gone, and the latter rain is Nisan 1. The turtledove comes to Israel in April and leaves in October. There have to be grapes. Verse 15 says, "our vines have tender grapes." Agape

My reply

> > Psalm 90 vs. 10: Our days may come to seventy years, or eighty I think that's a life span, not a generation. Webster's online calls a generation "the average span of time between the BIRTH of parents and that of their offspring". Not many 70 or 80 year olds have babies. My Webster's Collegiate suggests 33 years for a generation. That's got to be an average. More have babies in their teens than at 40. I go by Mt 1:17. It says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." That works out to be 48.33 years per generation (2030 divided by 42 = 48.33). We can add 48.33 years to Sivan 1, 5727, June 9, 1967, next to the last day of the Six-Day War, and get Tishri 1, 5775, Sept 14, 2015. The 4 extra months are Sivan, Tamuz, Av and Elul. > > What if there is a delay between the rapture and the beginning of the tribulation. That could explain why we haven't seen the destruction of Damascus yet. It looks like Damascus will cease to be a city when the asteroid of Rev 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea on the Day of God's Wrath. > > That could explain why the Jews will have seven years to burn the weapons from the Gog Magog war. I think those 7 years follow the Day of God's Wrath. I too expect the Rapture this spring, maybe Ascension Day, May 29, 2011. Song of Solomon 2:10-17 suggests spring. The rain has to be over and gone, and the latter rain is Nisan 1. The turtledove comes to Israel in April and leaves in October. There have to be grapes. Verse 15 says, "our vines have tender grapes." Agape

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