Pro and Con 1616

Posted 7-6-2011

"For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry." (Heb 10:37)

My reply to a post on Five Doves, Re: Bill Griese: "the Wrath of God lasts for about one year"

> > my previous post that made the case very strongly that the Wrath of God lasts for about one year > > I would contend, the Sixth Seal marks the beginning of the Second Coming in the sky, starting at the beginning of the seventh year, and lasting for about one year while the Wrath of God occurs. > > The Wrath of God is the 'Day of Vengeance' and lasts about one year: > > Isaiah 34:8 “For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion." A "day of the Lord's vengeance” refers to the wrath of God; and “a year of recompences” indicates that this period will last for about one year, the seventh 'day' of the 70th Week (The seven year 70th week has seven 'days' of one year each). When you said, "The Wrath of God is the 'Day of Vengeance' and lasts about one year," the first part is correct. It will be one "Day of Vengeance", but it will be a LONG DAY for this globe will be knocked upside down. It will take awhile to regain its equilibrium. Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and TURNETH IT UPSIDE DOWN". I believe that the Day of Vengeance will be the first day, Tishri 1, in the Year of Recompenses that will be the first year of Christ's millennial rule. Like Solomon, Christ will purge his kingdom at the outset. The Jubilee Year will be announced on the following Day of Atonement. The Israelites will live in booths hastily built from the rubble on that Feast of Tabernacles. The Jubilee will start on the following Nisan 1. THE WRATH OF GOD WILL HIT EARTH ON JESUS' LONG DAY Jer 30:6,7 says, "wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? 7 Alas! for THAT DAY is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it." Two asteroids impact Earth "THAT DAY". The mountain-sized rock hits the Mediterranean Sea (Rev 8:8). The asteroid Wormwood obliterates Babylon near the Euphrates River (Rev 8:11). Things like that do not take place slowly over a year's time. They take place on one day. Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (the asteroid Wormwood)? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down." I think Satan's home on the asteroid Wormwood will break up at the Roche Limit 11,000 miles out. There will be two main pieces, the mountain-sized piece that will hit the Mediterranean Sea and the main piece that will obliterate Babylon near the Euphrates. In addition, there will be lots of rocks weighing over 100 lbs. and numerous small pieces that will fall like figs falling off of a fig tree in the wind. Each piece of that asteroid will hit Earth in one moment of time. That impact can't last a year. It will be one long day. JESUS' LONG DAY From the Hebrew, the Lord's name is Joshua. From the Greek, it is Jesus. Like Joshua's Long Day (the type), there will be no other day exactly like Jesus' Long Day. Joshua 10:11-14 says, "the LORD cast down GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with HAILSTONES than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword. Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the DAY when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon (meaning a thing lifted up) ; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And THE SUN STOOD STILL, AND THE MOON STAYED, UNTIL THE PEOPLE HAD AVENGED THEMSELVES UPON THEIR ENEMIES. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down ABOUT A WHOLE DAY. 14 And there was NO DAY LIKE THAT BEFORE IT OR AFTER IT, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel." The Book of Jasher says, "THE LORD SENT UPON THEM HAILSTONES FROM HEAVEN, and more of them died by the hailstones, than by the slaughter of the children of Israel. And the children of Israel pursued them, and they still smote them in the road, going on and smiting them. And when they were smiting, the day was declining toward evening, and Joshua said in the sight of all the people, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon, and thou moon in the valley of Ajalon, until the nation shall have revenged itself upon its enemies. And the Lord hearkened to the voice of Joshua, and the sun stood still in the midst of the heavens, and IT STOOD STILL SIX AND THIRTY MOMENTS, and the moon also stood still and hastened not to go down A WHOLE DAY. And there was no day like that, before it or after it, that the Lord hearkened to the voice of a man, for the Lord fought for Israel." (http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/home.html) On JESUS' LONG DAY, this globe will be knocked upside down when the asteroid Wormwood impacts Earth. It seems that it will come in at an oblique angle over Russia for it sets fires in Russia. Isa 24:1 tells us why the Day of God's Wrath will be a long day. It says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and TURNETH IT UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." It will take awhile for this globe to regain its equilibrium. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A DAY of darkness and of gloominess, A DAY of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; THERE HATH NOT BEEN EVER THE LIKE, NEITHER SHALL BE ANY MORE AFTER IT, even to the years of many generations." Of that day, Dan 12:1,2 says, "And at that time (when the False Prophet is deposed, Dan 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE (the 144,000 Israelites) SHALL BE DELIVERED (malat, BE BORN, ESCAPE, LEAP OUT, BE RESCUED, i.e., escape in the Last-Trump Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake". The 144,000 Israelites will be caught up that day in the Last-Trump Rapture. That cannot last a year, either. Isa 30:25 says, "And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in THE DAY OF THE GREAT SLAUGHTER, WHEN THE TOWERS FALL." The oceans will be out of control. Tsunamis will destroy men and buildings. The towers makes me think of all those new towers in Dubai. That's the day when every wall in the world will fall. Eze 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in THE FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely IN THAT DAY there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel (THE MOUNTAIN SIZED ASTEROID OF REV 8:8 WILL HIT THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA); 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake (i.e., in the worldwide earthquake) at my presence (LIT., FACE), and THE MOUNTAINS SHALL BE THROWN DOWN, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground. 21 And I will call for a sword (THE SWORD OF THE LORD THAT IS BATHED IN HEAVEN) against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain (A TSUNAMI), and great HAILSTONES, FIRE, AND BRIMSTONE. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES of many nations (THEY WILL SEE THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN THE SKY), and they shall know that I am the LORD." That will be the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ. Isa 34:5 says, "For my SWORD shall be bathed in HEAVEN: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to JUDGMENT." Rev 16:18,19 says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city (JERUSALEM) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great BABYLON came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS WRATH." Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a STONE (i.e., AN ASTEROID) like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." That doesn't take a year to take place, but there will be 7 months (Eze 39:12,13) from that Feast of Trumpets to the Second Advent on Nisan 1, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee Year. Therefore, that last year will be a Jewish Leap Year, probably 5776. It has the 13th month. Otherwise, Tishri 1 to Nisan 1 would be 6 months. A Jubilee Year must be preceded by a Sabbatic Year, and 5775 is a Sabbatic Year. The next Sabbatic Year after that will be 5782. What lasts a year is the Jubilee. It will probably run from Nisan 1, 5776, Sat, April 9, 2016, to Nisan 1, 5777, Tue, March 28, 2017. Notice that the Jubilee will start on the Sabbath. Jesus said that he was Lord of the Sabbath. That fits the beginning of the Jubilee Year. That Jubilee date looks reasonable to me. General Allenby took possession of Jerusalem in 1917. 1917 + 50 = 1967. Israel took the Temple Mount in the Six-Day War of 1967. 1967 + 50 = 2017. Lev 25:5,13 says, "That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is A YEAR OF REST unto the land....13 In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession." He will need to build a house for every wall will fall in the worldwide earthquake. After the Jubilee ends, he will be able plant a new crop for food. Agape

A Post on Five Doves, Re: "I NEED YOUR HELP"

M.A.P. (25 June 2011)

I NEED YOUR HELP! I CONDUCT A SMALL JAIL MINISTRY AND I HAVE BEEN PRESENTED WITH A QUESTION NEITHER I NOR MY PASTOR HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ANSWER SATISFACTORILY. THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION MAY POSSIBLY DETERMINE WHETHER THIS INDIVIDUAL WILL EVER BE ABLE TO OVERCOME GRIEVOUS HURTS FROM THE PAST & TRUST IN GOD ENOUGH TO GIVE HER LIFE OVER TO CHRIST!

THE QUESTION IS THIS:

AFTER SATAN'S FALL, WHY DID GOD ALLOW HIM TO DECEIVE ADAM AND EVE, AND TO CONTINUE TO RUN RAMPANT THROUGHOUT THE EARTH DESTROYING LIVES WHEN GOD COULD HAVE SIMPLY CAST HIM INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE FROM THE BEGINNING AND HAVE IT DONE WITH, SPARING MANKIND (INCLUDING ADAM AND EVE)?

MY PASTOR SAYS ITS BECAUSE SATAN SERVES THE PURPOSES OF GOD. BUT THAT IS TOO GENERAL A STATEMENT, AND IT JUST DOESN'T CUT THE MUSTARD WITH THIS INDIVIDUAL, WHO CANNOT SEE THE GOODNESS OF GOD IN SUCH A SCENARIO!

ANY HELP WITH THIS DILEMMA IS GREATLY APPRECIATED. ADVANCE THANKS TO ALL YOU DOVES!

M.A.P.

My reply

> > AFTER SATAN'S FALL, WHY DID GOD ALLOW HIM TO DECEIVE ADAM AND EVE, AND TO CONTINUE TO RUN RAMPANT THROUGHOUT THE EARTH DESTROYING LIVES WHEN GOD COULD HAVE SIMPLY CAST HIM INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE FROM THE BEGINNING AND HAVE IT DONE WITH, SPARING MANKIND (INCLUDING ADAM AND EVE)?

Because he wanted to prove to Satan that he was fair and just in sentencing him to prison.

I think the angels were created and tested before Adam was created. They were given laws and tested. Mt 4:10 says, "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve."

Satan and his fallen angels failed their test, were judged and sentenced to prison. Satan appealed the case, claiming God was not fair in condemning him and his fallen angels to prison.

Adam and Eve were created to prove a point to Satan. They were also given a test. The angels had been created able to see God. Man was created not being able to see God. If man could obey God even though he could not see him, God would be fair and just in condemning the fallen angels to prison.

It seems obvious that Satan knew the space of time the test would take, because he caused the Mayan Calendar to end in 2012, which is probably Mid-Trib when he will be allowed to enter into the False Prophet.

SCRIPTURES THAT REVEAL SATAN'S ACTIVITIES

His sin. Isa 14:12-15 says, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Satan), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH (i.e., like Christ, but that's impossible, Christ is God, Isa 44:6). 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Christ has two comings. Satan does too. Rev 13:11-18 says, "I beheld another beast (the False Prophet) coming up out of the earth (i.e., out of eretz Israel); and he had two horns (i.e., two comings to power, in Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet) like a lamb (like Jesus, the lamb of God), and he spake as a dragon (Satan will enter into the False Prophet Mid-Trib). 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (the Antichrist) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." No one can be saved that takes the Mark of the Beast. The number six means man, who was created on the sixth day. The False Prophet will claim to be God, but he will just be a Satan-possessed man. Eze 28:13 says, "Thou (Satan) hast been in Eden the garden of God (on Earth); every precious stone (symbol of a planet) was thy covering (i.e., surroundings), the sardius (symbol of Mercury), topaz (symbol of Venus), and the diamond (symbol of Earth), the beryl (symbol of Mars), the onyx (symbol of Satan's planet Rahab, now our Asteroid Belt), and the jasper (symbol of Jupiter), the sapphire (symbol of Saturn, i.e., the third heaven Paul was caught up to, II Cor 12:1-4), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created."

Satan now lives on the asteroid Wormwood (Rev 8:11). It will collide with Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (an asteroid, a piece of his planet Rahab that split up) 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country (destroying Babylon, Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., Jesus Christ, the Son of God); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (split) Rahab (Satan's planet), and wounded the dragon" (Satan)?

Job 1:6-9,12 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God (bene ha Elohim, sons of God, angels, each created by God) came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 says, "And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?"

Job 1:12 says, "And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."

Job 2:1-7 says, "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. 4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life. 6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. 7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown."

Zec 3:1,2 says, "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?"

Mt 12:26 says, "And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then HIS KINGDOM stand?"

Luk 22:31 says, "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat".

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 20:2 says, "And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years". Agape

My reply to a post on Five Doves

Re: Mercer: "The Shekinah Glory Leaves the temple 3 1/2 years before temple destroyed in 70AD" > > http://hope-of-israel.org.nz/glory.htm
> > Interesting read
The miracles in 66 AD that Josephus wrote about are very interesting, but be careful of what else is being taught. The author may be a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. At any rate, he is teaching things that are wrong.

This author elevates "YEHOVAH'S Shekinah Glory" and downgrades Jesus.

He believes that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19 is Yehovah's Shekinah Glory, NOT JESUS CHRIST.

I'm just glad I knew enough to be alarmed when I read that Jesus was not God. He is GOD, and I can prove it by Scripture.

Jesus is both the first and the last, LORD of the Old Testament and Lord of the New Testament.

In the first chapter of "THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST", Rev 1:8, Jesus told us who he is. He said, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY."

In the last chapter of the Bible, Rev 22:13, Jesus said, "I am Alpha (the first letter of the alphabet) AND Omega (the last letter), the beginning AND the end, the first AND the last."

In Isa 44:6, YHWH said, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, AND HIS REDEEMER THE LORD (YHWH) OF HOSTS; I am the first (YHWH the King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, i.e., Jesus Christ); and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD."

In Isa 48:12-18, YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, the preincarnate Christ said, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am HE; I am the first (YHWH king of Israel), I also am the last" (Jesus Christ, the only God/man). 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. 14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, HEAR YE THIS; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it (the beginning) was, there am I (the Pre-incarnate Christ): and now the Lord GOD (1, the Father), and his Spirit (2, the Holy Spirit), hath sent ME" (3, the Pre-incarnate Christ). 17 Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy Redeemer (Christ), the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS (Christ's commandments)! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea." So the God who came down on Mt. Sinai, under whose feet was the sapphire pavement, was the Pre-incarnate Christ.

John 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God (the Father) at any time; the only begotten Son (Christ), which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

1 John 4:12 says, "No man hath seen God (the Father) at any time. If we love one another, God (the Holy Spirit) dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

So, every time the Angel of the LORD was seen, it was the Pre-incarnate Christ, not God the Father.

Prov 30:4 says, "Who hath ascended up into heaven (God), or descended? (God)who hath gathered the wind in his fists? (God) who hath bound the waters in a garment? (God) who hath established all the ends of the earth? (God) what is his name (YHWH), and what is HIS SON'S NAME (Jesus, or Yeshua), if thou canst tell?

Keep in mind that no one has ever seen God the Father. Ex 24:10 says, "And THEY SAW THE GOD OF ISRAEL (YHWH of hosts/the Pre-incarnate Christ): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone (symbol of Saturn), and as it were (as if it were) the body of heaven (the heavenly body) in his (or its) clearness."

The throne of Jesus, who is both God and man, is on Saturn. Eze 1:1 says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God."

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the terrestrial planets, including Earth, Eze 1:15) was the likeness (symbolic language) of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE STONE (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear; Webster's Collegiate Dictionary): and upon the likeness of the THRONE was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (he saw visions of God, and man; the only God/man is Jesus Christ) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it (Saturn gives off more heat than it gets from the Sun), from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT (i.e., Saturn's ring system). 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (the bright rings). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Below are some things I object to that I found on this site.

"YEHOVAH's Shekinah Glory"
http://hope-of-israel.org.nz/glory.htm
"Hope of Israel Ministries -- Preparing the Way for the Return of YEHOVAH God and His Messiah!" P.O. Box 2186, Temple City, CA 91780, U.S.A.
www.hope-of-israel.org

At http://hope-of-israel.org.nz/briefs/index.html, they list 8 days as "Yehovah's Holy Days", Sabbath, Passover, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost, Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles and Last Great Day.

What's wrong with that? They inserted the Sabbath and left out Firstfruits (when Jesus was Resurrected). Why? They are playing up God the Father and playing down Jesus, the Redeemer, claiming that Jesus is not God.

They list "Satan's Holy Days" as Birthdays, Christmas, EASTER (which is the Feast of Firstfruits), Halloween, New Year's Eve, Valentine's Day, Sunday Worship and Thanksgiving.

On the web site under "Books," it lists, "Nature of the Messiah, Christology in the Making," by James D.G. Dunn

Here are some quotes from that book:

"The New Testment Inquiry into the origins of the Doctrine of Incarnation

"By employing the exegetical methods of "historical context of meaning" and "conceptuality in transition," (whatever those are) Dunn brings to light the first-century meaning of key titles and passages within the New Testament that bear directly on the development of the Christian understanding of the Messiah.

"Before the Messiah, "Christology" did not exist, or it existed, properly speaking, only in different forms of "messianic expectation." At the end of the New Testament period, however, an advanced and far-reaching Christology was already in place that did not hesitate to INCORRECTLY SPEAK OF THE MESSIAH AS "GOD." (emphasis mine)

"THE WORD WAS GOD"

This makes me think of the Jehovah's Witnesses. They are forever trying to prove that John 1:1-3 is not proof that Jesus is God. It says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and THE WORD WAS GOD. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

"THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER"

Heb 1:1-8 says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But UNTO THE SON HE SAITH, THY THRONE, O GOD, IS FOR EVER AND EVER: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

Of the Jehovah's Witnesses
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses)
Wikipedia says, "They consider use of the name Jehovah vital for proper worship. They reject Trinitarianism, inherent immortality of the soul, and hellfire, which they consider to be unscriptural doctrines. They do not celebrate Christmas, Easter, birthdays, or other holidays and customs they consider to have pagan origins incompatible with Christianity."

That fits this group.

The following quotes are from their article entitled "YEHOVAH's Shekinah Glory"

http://hope-of-israel.org.nz/glory.htm

"The One on the white horse leading the armies of heaven to this earth is YEHOVAH THE FATHER in His "Shekinah form -- NOT Yeshua the Messiah!

"Revelation 19 pictures the glorious RETURN OF YEHOVAH GOD'S "SHEKINAH" PRESENCE to this earth to rule, with the Messiah directly under Him, from the new Third Temple in Jerusalem. May YEHOVAH God hasten that day!

"Acts in the New Testament verifies this, if we care to read it carefully:
"And after he [Christ] said these things, while they [the apostles] were looking on, he was lifted up and A CLOUD CAUGHT HIM UP FROM THEIR VISION. And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, also, look! two men in white garments stood alongside them, and they said: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from you into the sky WILL COME THUS IN THE SAME MANNER AS YOU HAVE BEHELD HIM GOING INTO THE SKY (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures).

"And after he [Christ] said these things, while they [the apostles] were looking on, he was lifted up and A CLOUD CAUGHT HIM UP FROM THEIR VISION. And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, also, look! two men in white garments stood alongside them, and they said: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was received up from you into the sky WILL COME THUS IN THE SAME MANNER AS YOU HAVE BEHELD HIM GOING INTO THE SKY (The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures).

"Now HOW did the Messiah go up into the sky? Was he on a white horse? No! Did he have the armies of heaven with him? No! Was his robe soaked in blood and was he wearing MANY crowns? No! The simple truth is that "a cloud caught him up from their [the Apostles] vision" as he was lifted up into the sky, and Revelation 14:14 shows him RETURNING THE EXACT SAME WAY with one difference -- this time he is wearing the crown of rulership and bringing the saints with him! "Daniel 7:13 records the Messiah receiving this crown of rulership -- notice:

"I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man [Yeshua the Messiah], coming WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN! He came to the Ancient of Days [YEHOVAH, YHVH], and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him [the Messiah] was given DOMINION AND GLORY AND A KINGDOM, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed.

"For centuries Christians -- and even the Churches of YEHOVAH God -- have been thoroughly confused over these two events and placed their hope and expectations and yearnings on the return of Yeshua the Messiah while relegating YEHOVAH (YHVH) AND HIS RETURN TO THE DUST BIN! While the return of Yeshua the Messiah is not to be minimized -- the FAR GREATER, earthshaking, awesome mind-reeling event is that of the "SHEKINAH" GLORY OF YEHOVAH GOD RETURNING TO THIS EARTH to reside and rule from the Temple in Jerusalem! THIS is the event pictured in Revelation 19! All the prophets of the Old Testament clearly predicted a visible, awesome, literal manifestation of the "Shekinah" Glory of YEHOVAH once again -- this we see in Revelation 19. For more exciting information regarding the return of YEHOVAH God and His Messiah, read our article The Return of YEHOVAH God and His Messiah!

"Daniel 7:13 records the Messiah receiving this crown of rulership -- notice: I was watching in the night visions, and behold, One like the Son of Man [Yeshua the Messiah], coming WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN! He came to the Ancient of Days [YEHOVAH, YHVH], and they brought Him near before Him. Then to Him [the Messiah] was given DOMINION AND GLORY AND A KINGDOM, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and His kingdom the one which shall not be destroyed....

"Much too often Christians have allowed themselves to hastily read through the texts, all the while ASSUMING that when the prophets write of YEHOVAH Himself acting in decisive ways, they actually refer to His Messiah. How often have you heard preachers and ministers say that "when Jesus returns, his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives." Unfortunately, this is CARELESS AND UNSCHOLARLY exegesis. As you can plainly see, after reading all the texts I have laid out, the prophets ALWAYS maintain a CLEAR DISTINCTION between the DRAMATIC APPEARANCE of the LORD God (YHVH) in Revelation 19 and the coming of the Messiah in Revelation 10:1-7, and His subsequent rule UNDER YEHOVAH God....

"Also, in Isaiah 24, the prophet proclaims --

"Behold, YEHOVAH lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface, and scatters its inhabitants...They raise their voices, they shout for joy. They cry out from the west concerning the majesty of YEHOVAH. Therefore glorify YEHOVAH in the east, the name of YEHOVAH, the God of Israel in the coastlands of the sea...So it will happen IN THAT DAY, that YEHOVAH will punish the host of heaven, on high, and the kings of the earth, ON EARTH...Then the moon will be abashed and the sun ashamed, FOR YEHOVAH OF HOSTS WILL REIGN ON MOUNT ZION AND IN JERUSALEM, and His glory ["Shekinah" presence] will be before His elders...For behold, YEHOVAH IS ABOUT TO COME OUT FROM HIS PLACE to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; and the earth will reveal her bloodshed, and will no longer cover her slain (Isaiah 24, selected verses)....

"the Mount of Olives. From this sacred area the holy "Shekinah" (Glory of YEHOVAH) departed, and it is HERE that it will return. This clearly connects to the passage in Zechariah that predicts "on that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" (14:4).

Rev 19:11-16 (KJV) says, "I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

This is Christ, the WORD OF GOD. No man has ever seen the Father, but Christ can be seen.

John 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning was the Word (i.e., Christ), and the Word was with God, AND THE WORD WAS GOD. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM (Christ); and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Heb 1:1,2 says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by HIS SON, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS".

Heb 1:8 says, "But unto THE SON he saith, Thy throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom." Agape
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""The Feast of TRUMPETS", PLURAL! This is the Feast of MANY "trumpets" -- not just the "last" trumpet!"
By Dankenbring

"And in the seventh month [Tishri], ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work: it is a day of blowing the trumpets unto you" (Num.29:1).

"The TEN DAYS from Rosh Hashanah (literally, the 'head of the year')

through Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) are known as the 'TEN DAYS OF REPENTANCE.' (" It is the SEASON OF REPENTANCE") These are the most solemn days of the year, for this is the period in which, in the image of the tradition, ALL THE WORLD IS JUDGED BEFORE GOD'S HEAVENLY THRONE."

"Judgment begins on Rosh Hashanah, and the world enters into a period of judgment -- but the actual judgment is set and finished on Yom Kippur. "

"The Israelites were told by God through Moses to observe the 1st day of the 7th month with “trumpet blasts”."

My reply to a post on Five Doves

Re: Paul Wilson (6 July 2011) "RE: Commentary on Revelation Chart," Seals, trumpets and vials > > It is chronologically written: seals then trumpets then vials. Just because the 3 judgment types share features does not mean they happen together. Seals, trumpets and vials are chronologically written, but not all of Revelation is chronologically written. There are some parenthetic passages. For instance, chapters 6, 13 and 17 all start at the beginning of the Tribulation that follows the First-Trump Rapture. In Rev 17:9-17, that Rapture has just taken place, but the 10 kings have not yet received their kingdoms. Rev 6:1,2 says, "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. 2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he (the Antichrist, the first beast of Rev 13) that sat on him had a bow (Gr. toxon, plain fabric, i.e., he is a man of the cloth, a religious leader); and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer." Rev 13:1-3 also introduces this religious leader. It says, "I stood upon the sand of the sea ('peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues', Rev 17:15), and saw a beast (the great red dragon) rise up out of the sea (nations), having seven heads (the Pontifex Maximus' of Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, Holy Roman Empire, Ecclesiastical Roman Empire and Babylon III) and ten horns (kings), and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads (all 7) THE NAME OF BLASPHEMY (Pontifex Maximus, high priest, a title that belongs to Christ). 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece, Dan 7:6), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Media-Persia, Dan 7:5), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Babylon, Dan 7:4, i.e., he is teaching the Babylonian Mystery Religion): and the dragon (Satan) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads (the Holy Roman Empire) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed (the Holy Roman Empire became the Roman Ecclesiastical Empire): and all the world wondered after the beast". Mt 7:15 says, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing (wool), but inwardly they are ravening wolves." The Pope's badge of office, the symbol of top authority, is the woolen pallium worn over his liturgical dress. It is a woolen sash with some crosses on it that circles the neck and hangs down in front. Of the unholy trinity, Rev 16:13 says, "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the DRAGON (Satan), and out of the mouth of the BEAST (Antichrist), and out of the mouth of the FALSE PROPHET." Rev 17:9-17 says, "here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains (kingdoms), on which the woman (the Mystery Religion of Babylon) sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen (kings of (1) Babel, (2) Babylon II, (3) Media-Persia, (4) Greece and the (5) Holy Roman Empire), and one is (6, the Pope, the Antichrist, head of the Roman Ecclesiastical Empire), and the other (7, the False Prophet, head of Babylon III) is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (the Great Tribulation). 11 And the beast (great red dragon, Satan) that was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man now), even he is the eighth, and is of the seven (controls all 7), and goeth into perdition (Satan enters into the 7th, the False Prophet, the 2nd son of perdition; Judas Iscariot was the 1st son of perdition). 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet (i.e., when the First-Trump Rapture has just taken place); but receive power as kings one hour with the beast (i.e., the 7th, the Satan-possessed False Prophet). 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast (the False Prophet). 14 These shall make war with the Lamb (Christ), and the Lamb (clad in wool) shall overcome them: for he is LORD OF LORDS, AND KING OF KINGS: and THEY THAT ARE (present tense) WITH HIM (i.e., those that have just been raptured) ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns (kings) which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall (i.e., in the future) hate the whore (Mystery Babylon), and shall (in the future) make her desolate and naked (she will move to literal Babylon, which is being rebuilt, and sit where Nimrod's throne was, at the Tower of Babel), and shall (in the future) eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast (the False Prophet), until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is (at the time of the First-Trump Rapture, v 14) that great city (Vatican City), which reigneth over the kings of the earth." You are right about the order of the seals, trumpets and vials. Also, the last trump of GOD is not the same as the last trump sounded by an angel. SEALS, TRUMPETS AND VIALS ORGANIZED LIKE CIRCLE CLOCKS Imagine that you put a rubber band around seven Coke cans and drew around their tops on paper. You would have 6 circles surrounding the central 7th. Those 7 circles represent 7 Seals, with the center circle representing the 7th seal. Inside the 7th seal, draw a smaller circle clock. Those circles represent trumpets. Inside the 7th trumpet, draw a smaller circle clock. Those circles represent vials (or bowls). The seals come first. The 7 trumpets come out of the 7th seal. The 7 vials come out of the 7th trumpet. BOTH TRUMP OF GOD RAPTURES ARE OFFSET The First-Trump Rapture (I Thess 4:16,17; Rev 4:1) is before the FIRST SEAL (Rev 6). The Last-Trump Rapture (I Cor 15:51-54; Rev 7:14) is BEFORE THE SEVENTH SEAL (Rev 8). THE MYSTERY OF GOD Rev 10:7 says, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound (his trumpet), the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Rev 11:15 says, "And the seventh angel sounded (his trumpet); and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever." This will probably take place on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept 14, 2015. Just before that, on the Eve of Trumpets, there will be a Partial Solar eclipse. Rev 6:12 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood". That Feast of Trumpets should be the day of the Last Trump Rapture and the Day of God's Wrath. Agape

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