Pro and Con 1625
Pro and Con 1625
My reply to the second email from F M. Riley, Re: "The Ages to come," by FM Riley
FM: It is good to hear from you. Sister, I am inserting my answers to your questions in the body of your email in bold type.
MJ: I started an email reply. It ceased working. I restarted computer and decided to use my HTML editor. Maybe because my computer is set up for low vision, everything copy and pasted in bold type. Therefore, I will initial our responses. All parenthetic interpretations will be marked (i.e.,).
MJ: > > > YOU BELIEVE IN A MID-TRIB RESURRECTION THAT ISN'T A RAPTURE?
FM: Of course! Where is it written in the Scriptures that a rapture has to follow a resurrection? No where!
MJ: Of the First-Trump Rapture, 1Th 4:16,17 says, "THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."
MJ: Of the Last-Trump Rapture, 1Co 15:51-53 says, "THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, AND WE (including Paul) SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption (i.e., this happens at both Raptures), and this mortal must put on immortality" (i.e., this only happens at the last Rapture).
FM: the resurrection of Old Covenant believers will occur either right at or in close proximity to the middle of the Tribulation period, Daniel 11:45 – 12:1-2.
MJ: Dan 11:45 is talking about when the False Prophet will be deposed on the Day of God's Wrath. Then Dan 12:1 says, "AT THAT TIME (i.e., when the False Prophet will be deposed) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (i.e., the Day of God's Wrath), SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and AT THAT TIME (i.e., on one literal day the likes of which had never happened before) THY PEOPLE (the 144,000 Israelites of Rev 7:1-8; 14:1-5) SHALL BE DELIVERED (malat, escape, leap out, i.e., be Raptured), EVERY ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK."
MJ: Rev. 6:16,17 says, "when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL...there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together (i.e., they see the Sign of the Son of Man); and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men...hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (i.e., in the Sign of the Son of Man), and from the wrath of the Lamb: For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?" (I.e., probably no one, for every wall will fall in the worldwide earthquake; Eze 38:18-20).
MJ: Mt 24:30 says, "And then (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath) shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
MJ: This is not the Second Advent which is 7 months later. It is the first day of Christ's Millennial kingdom. Rev 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (i.e., 7 months future, Eze 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward (i.e., at the Judgment Seat of Christ) unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an EARTHQUAKE, and great hail."
MJ: Eze 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them (i.e., Gog's army that attacked on the Day of God's Wrath), that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."
MJ: This is the day of the asteroid impacts. Rev 8:8-11 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE was cast into the sea (i.e., the Mediterranean): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR (aster, star, meteorite or asteroid) FROM HEAVEN, BURNING AS IT WERE A LAMP, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And THE NAME OF THE STAR IS CALLED WORMWOOD: and the third part of the waters became wormwood (i.e., meaning bitter); and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
MJ: Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (i.e., Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and THAT GRAVETH AN HABITATION FOR HIMSELF IN A ROCK? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."
MJ: Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up A STONE LIKE A GREAT MILLSTONE, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."
MJ: Jer_30:7 says of that one literal day like no other, "Alas! for that day is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it." It will be a long day because the two asteroid impacts of Rev 8:8-11 will literally turn the world upside down.
MJ: Isa_24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and TURNETH IT UPSIDE DOWN."
FM: Old Covenant believers will be resurrected back to life in their natural bodies, but without any “sin nature,” Joel 3:20-21; Zephaniah 3:13; Isaiah 60:21; Jeremiah 31:33-34; Hebrews 8:10-12. THEY WILL NOT BE RAPTURED! (emphasis by MJ)
MJ: Isa 60:21 says, "Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever". They will return to Earth with Christ at the Second Advent on Nisan 1 seven months after the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1 in a Leap Year. That's why Dan 12:11 adds an extra 30 days. 5776 is a Leap Year. I think Tishri 1, 5776 will probably be the Day of God's Wrath and the following Nisan 1 will be the Second Advent. It will be the 1st day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years. The Jubilee would be announced on the previous Day of Atonement, Sept 23, 2015.
MJ: Jer 31:31,33,34 says, "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah...After those days (i.e., after the Second Advent), saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
FM: Sister, I have never learned how to outright deny or change what God's Word explicitly states. I accept the Word of God literally for what it actually and literally says (and teaches) rather than what men attempt to make it say and teach.
MJ: I too go by what Scripture says. The Lord has packed so much into that one small book it proves that God inspired it. If man tried to put all that information down, the volumes would fill a warehouse. There are layers and layers of information to keep us searching. We never get to the bottom of it.
FM: The "time" for the resurrection of the Old Covenant believers who are to be restored to natural life is specifically stated in Daniel 11:45 - 12:1-2. Daniel 11, verses 35-45 is specifically speaking about the Antichrist. 11:45 explicitly states that "he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." There are many other passages in the prophetic Word that indicate that this particular event will occur at or near the middle of the Tribulation. The Antichrist has long desired to rule from the city of Jerusalem, and for a very brief time he will have his desire fulfilled. It is during that time that he will enter the Jewish Temple and defile it by declaring himself to be God, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.
MJ: I think the time of Daniel 11:45 - 12:1-2 is the day the False Prophet is deposed, the Day of God's Wrath. The "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" in Dan 12:1 is the Day of God's Wrath. It can't last 3.5 years. It never was on any other day.
MJ: The man that desecrates the Temple Mid-Trib will be the False Prophet, the second beast of Rev 13.
FM: Then without any break whatsoever in what is being said to Daniel, 12:1-2 explicitly says, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
MJ: Michael stands up in Dan 12, because it is the day of the Last-Trump Rapture, which is the Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath. Michael also is present at the First-Trump Rapture. 1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of THE ARCHANGEL, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air".
FM: And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
FM: This makes it obvious that at the same time the Antichrist is sitting up his palace in the city of Jerusalem, the resurrection of the Old Covenant Jewish believers is going to occur. Further Scriptural proof of this truth is supplied in 12:1 when Daniel was explicitly told, "and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time....." We know this is talking about mid-Trib for the Lord Jesus Christ Himself referred to this same time of trouble and specifically placed the beginning of it at mid-Trib. Matthew 24:15-21.
MJ: Mt 24:15,16 says, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains". That happens Mid-Trib. Those Messianic Jews will stay in Petra 1260 days".
MJ: However, the time of Dan 12:1 is when the Last-Trump Rapture takes place and the False Prophet is deposed (Dan 11:45). Jer 30:7 says. "Alas! for that day is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it." The Last-Trump Rapture will save him out of it.
MJ: "NONE IS LIKE IT" rules out every other day. The Day of the Lord has to be one literal day, because the asteroids hit Earth that day, and they don't strike Earth in the middle of the Tribulation, they strike at the end. It is the day of the worldwide earthquake, when every wall falls (Eze 38:18-20). The cities of the world will be in shambles.
MJ: Like Noah's Flood was unique, this trial by fire will be unique. A rock this big hasn't slammed into Earth since Adam was created. However, one did before Adam was created, when the Moon material was scooped out of the Pacific Basin. In Gen 1:9 "God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place (i.e., the Pacific Basin), and let the dry land appear: and it was so."
FM: See also Revelation 12:6 and 12:14.
MJ: Mt 24:15-21 says, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) [i.e., it is Mid-Trib].16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE."
MJ: If it was not since the beginning of the world to this time, and it won't ever be afterward, the great and terrible Day of the Lord/Day of God's Wrath can't last more than one day. God's Wrath will hit Earth when the Judgment Seat of Christ takes place.
MJ: Rev. 11:18,19 says, "thy WRATH is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest DESTROY THEM WHICH DESTROY THE EARTH. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
MJ: Of Mid-Trib, Rev 12:6,14 says, "the woman (i.e., Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God (Petra), that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., 3.5 years, the Great Tribulation).... 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (i.e., 3.5 years), from the face of the serpent" (Satan, who enters into the False Prophet Mid-Trib).
MJ: > > > I EXPECT THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE ON THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS, SEPT 29, 2011
FM: This may be! And then it may not be!
MJ: True, but we have SIGNS that we haven't had before. There will be three comets in our skies, Elenin, Honda and Levy, good signs for us, but harbingers of doom for those left behind, because of the Tribulation. Honda will be closest Aug 15, 2011. Elenin will be closest October 17. Levy will be closest Jan 11, 2012.
MJ: On Sept 25, 2011, Saturn, Mercury, Sun, Elenin, Earth and Uranus will line up. Saturn, Mercury, Sun and Elenin will be pulling Earth toward the Sun. We will be closer to the Sun than at any other time in the last 3600 years. The next day, the Sun Elenin and Uranus will be lined up. On 10-11-11, Elenin will be a quarter of the distance from us to the Sun. The comet will be closest to Earth on 10-17-11. On 10-20-11, it will enter Earth's orbit. On 11-2-11, Earth will enter Elenin's tail. Earth will probably get hit by some rocks. Other smaller rocks will burn up in the air. That may be one of the greatest meteor showers modern man has ever seen. On 11-11-11, Venus, Earth and Elenin will line up. On 12-4-11, Sun, Mercury, Earth and Elenin will line up.
MJ: The final alignment, Elenin, Earth, and Sun will be 12-21-12, THE DAY THE MAYAN CALENDAR ENDS. Why does it end that day? Was it because this would be the final alignment of Earth and Sun with Elenin? Surely Elenin crossing Earth's orbit just before Earth gets to that point is a major sign.
FM: According to the many reports I am now receiving daily from many different sources, including professional astronomers, meteorologists, and other scientists, Elenin/Nibiru/Planet X ?, will be close enough to the Earth on September 26, 2011 that it will eclipse the Sun and plunge the entire earth into total darkness for three days and nights as it passes by the Earth. This will be because Elenin is so much larger than the Earth that it will take three days for the eclipse caused by Elenin to come to an end and the light of the Sun to break forth on the Earth again.
MJ: Elenin's rock core should be much smaller than its diffused coma, so the three days and nights of TOTAL darkness may not happen. However that comes out, people should be able to look up in the sky and see the coma.
FM: What a fitting time for the Lord to come for His New Covenant believers as "a thief in the night." No, I am not saying that September 26th is the "date" of the rapture, for I don't claim to know the "date" and am not even trying to find out. However.....
MJ: I am certainly trying to find out. Jesus said to watch. I'm trying to recognize his signs. Jesus said that he foretold us all things. The clues we need are in the Bible. He said that earthquakes would increase. Sept 25, Saturn, Mercury, Elenin, Earth and Uranus will line up. We will probably have a large earthquake, maybe even a tsunami.
FM: If one goes to Yom Kippur on September 19, 2018 and counts backwards 2,550 days (1,290 for the last half of the Trib as indicated in Daniel 12:11, and 1,260 for the first half of the Trib) the count ends exactly on September 26, 2011. This is three days before Rosh HaShanah on September 29th this year. Somehow I just can't believe that this "harmony" between what the Bible predicts, and what many unbelieving scientists are now predicting is just "coincidence."
MJ: Me either. I'm thinking the Rapture may be on Trumpets.
FM: Sister, I really don't believe that we New Covenant believers are going to enter Israel's 64th year since they became a nation. It appears to me that those final seven years are reserved for God's dealings with Israel and the Jewish people. We are now living in the Jewish year of 5771 which will end this year at Rosh HaShanah. 5+7+7+1 = 20, the Bible number for "redemption." But the Jewish year of 5772 which begins at Rosh HaShanah adds up like this..... 5+7+7+2 = 21, the Bible number for "the 21 judgments of the Tribulation."
MJ: Thanks. That ties in beautifully. I don't know much about the meaning of numbers, just the ones that are easy to see. Seven tops them all. It means completion and perfection. Forty means probation.
MJ: > > >THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH
MJ: > > > I think that the Last-Trump Rapture and resurrection will be on the Day of God's Wrath, the last day of the Great Tribulation. I expect the 144,000 Israelites to be RAPTURED on that Day of God's Wrath.
MJ: > > > Dan 11:45 says, "And he (the False Prophet, who rules for the last 3.5 years of the 7-year Tribulation) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas (i.e., in Jerusalem, between the Mediterranean and Dead Sea) in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his END (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath), and none shall help him."...
FM: Sister, since the prophetic Word over and over again in passage after passage makes it quite clear that Christ and all of His saints are coming back to the Earth at the end of the Tribulation exactly as stated in Revelation 19 and many other place, then why would there be a rapture? This doesn't even make sense! I can see a resurrection occurring just as Revelation 20:4 clearly indicates, but a rapture? Raptured to where? Raptured why? The Lord will have returned to the Earth. Are you saying that the 144,000 and others are going to be raptured up to Heaven to be with God the Father during the Millennial Kingdom, when they have already been promised to reign on the Earth with Christ during His Millennial Kingdom? Pardon me dear sister! I mean no offense, but your "theory" doesn't make Scriptural sense.
MJ: I understand that the 144,000 Israelites and the great multitude too large to count of Rev 7:1-9 are seen in Heaven in Rev 7:14. Rev 7:13,14 says, "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God (i.e., in Heaven), and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
MJ: As I understand it, the 144,000 will be caught up to Heaven on the Day of God's Wrath (probably Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015), stay in Heaven 7 more months (Eze 39:13,14), then return to Earth with Christ at the Second Advent (probably Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years). The Jubilee would be announced on Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement, probably Sept 23, 2015 and begin the following Nisan 1.
MJ: Daniel 12:11 says, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (i.e., Mid-Trib), and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."
MJ: The estimated time given previously was 1260 days. The extra 30 days is to show us that the Jewish Year (probably 5776) is a Leap Year with the 13th month, Adar II. Sure enough, 5776 is a Leap Year. There are 7 months between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1 instead of the usual 6.
MJ: Therefore, I think the Tribulation saints will be caught up to Heaven in the Last-Trump Rapture of I Cor 15:51-54 on the Day of God's Wrath. They will stay in Heaven seven months, then return with Christ and the Bride of Christ at the Second Advent, Nisan 1, April 9, 2016. The last verse of Dan 12 shows us that Daniel will stand in his inherited plot of ground in Israel on the 1335th day. That is estimated time too since the Great Tribulation is to be shortened.
FM: Further, it is very obvious that the 144,000 are already on Mt. Zion IN HEAVEN in Revelation 14:1-5 just after the middle of the Tribulation. It is quite clear that it is the "heavenly Mt. Zion" that they are on for they are with the four living creatures and the 24 elders and it is specifically stated twice in the passage that they "were redeemed from the earth," 14:3; 14:4. So what are you going to have them do? Come back to the earth after they have already been "redeemed from the earth" and die again so they can be raptured at the end of the Trib? Pardon me, but I don't think so! What I do think is that your "theory" needs some adjustment to make it harmonize with what God's Word actually and literally says.
MJ: I think the 144,000 Israelites will be caught up to Heaven in the Last-Trump Rapture (probably Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015), stay in Heaven 7 months, then return to Earth with Christ and his Bride at the Second Advent (probably Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years).
MJ: > > > THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH ARRIVES JUST BEFORE THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE
FM: I'm sorry dear sister, but you are wrong! The day of God's wrath arrives exactly at the middle of the Tribulation, whether you and others want to believe it or not, Revelation 6:17. The entire last half of the Tribulation is "the great day of the wrath of God," Revelation 14:6-20; 15:1-8; 16:1-21. Instead of trying to limit the "day of wrath" to just one particular day, why don't you use the same leniency with the term that the Holy Spirit of God used when He inspired the Word? Was the "day of law" just one particular day, or did "the day of law" span over 1,500 years? How about "the day of salvation," 2 Corinthians 6:1-2? If it was just one particular day when Paul wrote to the Corinthian church, then all of us today are lost and headed for hell for we missed it! Sister, we believers are still instructed to "rightly divide" the Word, and the meaning of the word day is obviously understood by how it is used in the context. Some today, like you apparently are choosing to do, totally ignore the context used over and over again in The Book of Revelation and are determined to fit the whole "day of the Lord" or "the day of wrath" into just one 24 hour day I'm sorry to disappoint you, but it won't work! That silly theory won't fly Scripturally!
MJ: I'd bet on it being one long day, because the Earth will be knocked upside by the two asteroid impacts, one in the Mediterranean Sea, the other at Babylon, Iraq. Rev 6:15-17 says, "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (they look up in the sky and see the Sign of the Son of Man, which seems to be seen on one literal day, the Day of God's Wrath), and from the WRATH OF THE LAMB: 17 For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?" That can't happen every day for 3.5 years.
MJ: Of the Day of God's Wrath, Eze 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely IN THAT DAY (i.e., one long day) there shall be a great shaking (i.e., when the mountain of Rev 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea) in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake (i.e., the worldwide earthquake) at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., when they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground (i.e., every building will fall). 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an OVERFLOWING RAIN (i.e. a tsunami) and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes (i.e., when the see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky) of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."
MJ: Rev 16:18-21 says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH, SO MIGHTY AN EARTHQUAKE, and so great. 19 And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS WRATH. 20 AND EVERY ISLAND FLED AWAY, AND THE MOUNTAINS WERE NOT FOUND. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great." That can't happen all during the final 3.5 years. It happens when the asteroid impacts Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.
MJ: All walls will fall, therefore all the cities of the world will be in shambles. This cannot be spread over 3.5 years either. It will happen on one long day.
FM: That's right! They are saying that "the great day of His wrath is come...;" has arrived at that point in time. Look up the words, "is come" for yourself in your Concordance or Lexicon. And what is the point in time clearly indicated in the text? The middle of the Tribulation, the exact same point in time when the angel goes forth in Revelation 14:6-7 emphatically declaring that "the hour of His judgment is come." These are the exact same Greek words used in 6:17.
MJ: I think the "hour of His judgment will be when the Judgment Seat of Christ convenes on Tishri 1, 5776.
MJ: The Day of God's Wrath is also the Day of the Judgment Seat of Christ and the great and terrible Day of the Lord. Joel 2:11 says, "the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"
MJ: Joel 2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."
MJ: That matches up with Rev 6:12,13. It says, "I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and THE SUN BECAME BLACK AS SACKCLOTH OF HAIR, AND THE MOON BECAME AS BLOOD; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth". Verse 17 adds, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
MJ: > > > Jer 30:7 says, "Alas! for that DAY (i.e., one day, the Day of God's Wrath) is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT (i.e., it is one day, because no other day is like it): it is even THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved (yasha, rescued, i.e., raptured) out of it" (i.e., as in Dan 12:1,2).
FM: No, it is not one day! It is a period time just like the "day of law," the "day of salvation," the "day of grace," "the day of God's longsuffering," are all periods of time. Where do you get the Scriptural authority to ignore the context and make it apply to just one 24 hour day? Book, chapter, and verse please! Indeed there will be no other day like it! The Lord Himself said so as He referred to that "time of trouble" that is coming on the Earth during the last half of the Tribulation, Matthew 24:21. That happens to be a three and one-half year time period, just like "the day of salvation" has now been a 2,000 year time period.
MJ: Isa_34:8 says, "For it (i.e., the Feast of Trumpets) is the DAY (i.e., Tishri 1) of the LORD'S vengeance, and the YEAR (i.e., probably 5776) of recompences for the controversy of Zion" (i.e., Jerusalem).
MJ: Lam 2:22 says, "Thou hast called as in A SOLEMN DAY my terrors round about, so that in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER NONE ESCAPED NOR REMAINED: those that I have swaddled and brought up hath mine enemy consumed." The day of the Lord's anger can't last 3.5 years, because "NONE ESCAPED NOR REMAINED".
MJ: Eze_13:5 says, "Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle (i.e., when Gog's army attacks Israel) in THE DAY OF THE LORD."
MJ: Eze 30:3 says, "For THE DAY is near, even THE DAY OF THE LORD is near, A CLOUDY DAY; it shall be the time of the heathen." Surely, it won't be cloudy for 3.5 years.
MJ: Zep 1:14 says, "The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of THE DAY OF THE LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly." Would the mighty man cry bitterly for 3.5 years?
MJ: Zep 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for HE SHALL MAKE EVEN A SPEEDY RIDDANCE OF ALL THEM THAT DWELL IN THE LAND." The land won't be uninhabited for 3.5 years. The Day of the Lord's wrath is one long day. A SPEEDY RIDDANCE would not take 3.5 years to accomplish.
MJ: Zep_2:3 says, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER." They wouldn't be hid for 3.5 years.
MJ: Acts 2:20 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come." The sun would not be dark 3.5 years. Neither would the Moon be turned into blood for 3.5 years. That happens in one long day.
MJ: 2Peter 3:10 says, "the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in THE NIGHT; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY WITH A GREAT NOISE, and the ELEMENTS SHALL MELT WITH FERVENT HEAT, THE EARTH ALSO AND THE WORKS THAT ARE THEREIN SHALL BE BURNED UP." The great noise would not last 3.5 year. The Earth and the works would not take 3.5 years to be burned up.
FM: Sister, don't you ever "compare spiritual things with spiritual" in order to arrive at the real truth of a passage of Scripture? That is precisely what God's Word tells us to do, 1 Corinthians 1:11-13. It sure doesn't tell us to add words to the Scriptures which are neither stated nor implied as you have done to this passage from Jeremiah 30:7. I have no objection or problem with a serious Bible student inserting a word into a Scripture passage to help make that passage understandable, PROVIDED the word is stated or implied in the text. But I sure do object to anyone inserting their "opinion" or "private interpretation" into a passage of Scripture, which is exactly what you did in quoting this verse. Sorry dear sister, but I don't "buy" it!
MJ: You don't have to. We are both trying as hard as we can to interpret Scripture. My interpretations are now all marked (i.e., ...) so you can understand that they are my interpretations, not an attempt to retranslate Scripture. However, if a Hebrew, Chaldean or Greek word can be translated differently, I quote the original word and its definition. Those are not marked (i.e., ).
MJ: > > > The wise virgins are Raptured at the First-Trump Rapture (I Thess 4:16,17). The foolish virgins are raptured at the Last-Trump Rapture (I Cor 15:51-54). Rev 7:14,15 says, "And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath), and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God (i.e., in Heaven), and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
FM: I'm sorry to disappoint you dear sister, but this is again your "opinion."
MJ: We all have opinions. Unless we park our brains, there is no way around having an opinion on how to interpret Scripture.
MJ: The second Rapture takes place in one literal day, not spread out over 3.5 years.
MJ: Concerning the second Rapture, Rev 7:13-17 says, "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, AND HAVE WASHED THEIR ROBES, AND MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB. 15 THEREFORE ARE THEY BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD, AND SERVE HIM DAY AND NIGHT IN HIS TEMPLE: AND HE THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE SHALL DWELL AMONG THEM. 16 THEY SHALL HUNGER NO MORE, NEITHER THIRST ANY MORE; NEITHER SHALL THE SUN LIGHT ON THEM, NOR ANY HEAT. 17 FOR THE LAMB WHICH IS IN THE MIDST OF THE THRONE SHALL FEED THEM, AND SHALL LEAD THEM UNTO LIVING FOUNTAINS OF WATERS: AND GOD SHALL WIPE AWAY ALL TEARS FROM THEIR EYES."
FM: These Scriptures do not say what you are trying to make them say. I would suggest that you seriously study the Parable of the Ten Virgins before you make anymore unscriptural utterances about them. Sadly, you are among many Christians who have assumed that this parable teaches a thing, when it doesn't even come close to teaching what is generally assumed. Have you ever actually examined every single word in the Greek text from which this parable was translated? I have! And the parable doesn't even say what many believers today would like to make it say based strictly on the English translation. Last time I checked, 2 Timothy 2:15 was still in the Bible!
MJ: No, I haven't looked up every word. I looked up enough to understand that their lamps have not gone out, they are sputtering threatening to go out. They just don't have extra oil of the Holy Spirit in their bodies. I have read Green's Interlinear, all 4 volumes, first above the original words and then I read Greens translation.
MJ: Let's look at some other verses. It helps to understand what is going on at the time of the First-Trump Rapture, and why a Last-Trump Rapture is necessary.
MJ: Luke 12:46 (KJV) says, "The lord of that servant (i.e., the unwise one, like the foolish virgins) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION (i.e., of the Tribulation) WITH THE UNBELIEVERS."
MJ: Mt 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder (lit., cut him off), and appoint him his portion (i.e., of the Tribulation) with the hypocrites (lit., pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Yes, they were so close to going in the first Rapture. They thought they had it made and they just barely missed it.
MJ: Mt 22:10-13 says, "So those servants (i.e., of God) went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad (i.e., foolish virgins) and good (i.e., wise virgins): and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11 And when the king came in to see the guests, HE SAW THERE A MAN WHICH HAD NOT ON A WEDDING GARMENT: 12 And he saith unto him, FRIEND, HOW CAMEST THOU IN HITHER NOT HAVING A WEDDING GARMENT? And he was speechless (i.e., because he thought he had it made). 13 Then said the king to the servants, BIND HIM HAND AND FOOT, AND TAKE HIM AWAY, AND CAST HIM INTO OUTER DARKNESS (i.e., outside the door darkness); THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."
MJ: When the First-Trump Rapture has just taken place, Rev 17:14 says, "the Lamb (i.e., Christ) shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." That's where we want to be.
MJ: Mt. 25:1-13 in Green's Interlinear says, "Then the kingdom of Heaven shall be compared to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. When they took their lamps, the foolish ones did not take oil (i.e., extra oil, the symbol of the Holy Spirit) with them. But the wise took oil in their bottles with their lamps. And as the bridegroom delayed, they all nodded and went to sleep. And IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT THERE WAS A CRY, LOOK, THE BRIDEGROOM IS COMING! GO OUT TO MEET HIM. Then all those virgins rose up and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish ones said to the wise, Share your oil with us, for our lamps are going out (lit., sputtering). But the wise answered and said, No, lest there should not be enough for us and for you. But rather go to those who sell, and buy oil for yourselves. But as they went away to buy, the bridegroom came. And THOSE WHO WERE READY WENT IN WITH HIM TO THE WEDDING FEAST. AND THE DOOR WAS SHUT. And afterwards THE OTHER VIRGINS also came, saying, Lord, Lord open to us. But he answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you. Then WATCH, for you (i.e., the foolish virgins) do not know the day or the hour in which the Son of man is coming."
MJ: Rev 14:1-5 says, "I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a VOICE FROM HEAVEN, as the voice of many waters, and as the VOICE OF A GREAT THUNDER: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their HARPS (i.e., as at the first Rapture, Rev 5:8 says, "the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them HARPS): 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man (i.e., at the time of the Last-Trump Rapture) could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed FROM THE EARTH (i.e., they were raptured). 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. THESE ARE THEY WHICH FOLLOW THE LAMB WHITHERSOEVER HE GOETH (i.e., they go to Heaven, stay 7 months, then return to Earth with Christ and his Bride). THESE WERE REDEEMED FROM AMONG MEN, BEING THE FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."
MJ: 2Ch 7:14 says, If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." Also Jer 31:34; 36:3.
MJ: > > > ALL THE WISE VIRGINS SING THE NEW SONG AFTER THE FIRST RAPTURE
MJ: > > > Rev 5:9 says, "And they (the raptured saints) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation".
FM: Sister, I have read the Book of Revelation hundreds of times over the past 57 years, and there is not a word said in Revelation 5 about any "virgins," wise or otherwise. THE 4 LIVING CREATURES AND THE 24 ELDERS SING THE "NEW SONG" of redemption, but there is a total absence in that entire chapter of any "virgin" even being mentioned. Have you read Revelation 22:18-19 lately? (emphasis by MJ)
MJ: Yes. I'm telling you my interpretation of Scripture, not adding to it. When I wrote my third book, the one about The Revelation of Jesus Christ, I read my quotes over and over comparing them with the Bible to make sure I typed them correctly.
MJ: I think the elders of Rev 4 and 5 are the 12 patriarchs OF ISRAEL and the 12 apostles of ISRAEL.
MJ: Rev 5:8-10 says of the saints that were caught up to heaven in the First-Trump Rapture, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty ELDERS fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them HARPS, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of SAINTS. AND THEY (i.e., the pronoun referring back to the noun SAINTS, punctuation was added later) SUNG A NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God BY THY BLOOD OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION (i.e., not just from Israel like the elders); And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."
MJ: The first group of "saints" sing the "new song" in Rev 5:9. They are the wise virgins out of every nation caught up to Heaven at the First-Trump Rapture.
MJ: The second group of "saints" who sing the "new song" are in Rev 14:1-5. They are the 144,000 Israelites caught up to Heaven in the Last-Trump Rapture. The foolish virgins and the rest of the Tribulation saints do not get to sing the new song.
MJ: > > > THE 144,000 ARE THE ONLY ONES AT THE LAST RAPTURE THAT CAN SING THE NEW SONG
MJ: At the TIME of the last Rapture, the 144,000 are called virgins and sing the new song. Rev 14:1-5 says, "I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion (i.e., in Heaven), and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And THEY SUNG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG BEFORE THE THRONE, AND BEFORE THE FOUR BEASTS, AND THE ELDERS (just as the first Rapture group did in Rev 5:9): and no man could learn that song but THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which FOLLOW THE LAMB WHITHERSOEVER HE GOETH. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."
FM: Now just where do you get the Scriptural authority to make the "new song" in Revelation 5 sung by the 4 living creatures and the 24 elders shortly after the rapture and beginning of the Trib, the same as the "new song" sung by the 144,00 right after the middle of the Trib? And if the "new song" is the same in both cases, then why does the Scripture explicitly say that "no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth"? Well...?? If the "new song" is the same in both cases, then what are the 4 living creatures and 24 elders doing singing it in the first place, when no one can learn it except the 144,000?
MJ: We need to understand the timing. At the TIME of the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess 4:16,17, all the saints out of all nations sing the new song. At the Last-Trump Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites can sing the new song. We can search the Bible for "new song" in eSword to find out more about it. eSword finds them all in a hurry.
MJ: Concerning the Last-Trump Rapture (i.e., of the Tribulation saints caught up on the Day of God's Wrath, Rev 14:1-5 says, "I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And THEY SUNG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG BEFORE THE THRONE, and BEFORE THE FOUR BEASTS, AND THE ELDERS: and (i.e., at the time of the Last-Trump Rapture) no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: FOR THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD."
MJ: Psa 149:1-9 says of the whole congregation of saints in Heaven, "PRAISE YE THE LORD. SING UNTO THE LORD A NEW SONG, and his praise in THE CONGREGATION OF SAINTS....Let the saints be joyful in glory (i.e., in Heaven, Psa 8:1; 19:1; 57:5; 57:11; 97:6): LET THEM SING ALOUD UPON THEIR BEDS. 6 LET THE HIGH PRAISES OF GOD BE IN THEIR MOUTH, AND A TWOEDGED SWORD IN THEIR HAND; 7 TO EXECUTE VENGEANCE UPON THE HEATHEN, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 TO EXECUTE UPON THEM THE JUDGMENT WRITTEN: THIS HONOUR HAVE ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD."
MJ: What do the 4 BEASTS represent? The same thing that the four faces did in Eze 1:10. It said, "As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a MAN, and the face of a LION, on the right side: and they four had the face of an OX on the left side; they four also had the face of an EAGLE." These are the same 4 faces that were on the flags put at the 4 compass points when Israel camped in the desert 40 years. Those four faces represented North South East and West.
MJ: Num 2:2 says, "Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard (i.e., flag), with the ensign (oth, sign, i.e., insignia) of their father's house".
MJ: Dan's flag on the North had the face of an EAGLE. Judah's flag on the East had the face of a LION. Reuben's flag on the South had the face of a MAN. Ephraim's flag on the West had the face of an OX.
MJ: Rev 4:7 says, "And the first beast was like (symbolic language) a LION, and the second beast like a calf (OX), and the third beast had a face as a MAN, and the fourth beast was like a flying EAGLE."
FM: Where is your Scriptural authority for making the two "new songs" sung on two totally different occasions by two totally different peoples the same song? Book, chapter, and verse, please?
MJ: Both groups singing the new song are raptured saints. The Bible explains itself. We are supposed to compare like things. The Bible usually mentions things at least twice, and often one passage will add some information we need to understand the whole subject.
MJ: I think both groups of saints that sing the new song are part of the Bride of Christ. The new song identifies them. Both are virgins. Both are caught up to Heaven. Both are part of the First Resurrection. Rev 20:6 says, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
MJ: Of the saints in Heaven on the Day of God's Wrath, Psa 149:1-9 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the CONGREGATION OF SAINTS. 2 Let Israel (i.e., the 144,000) rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. 4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. 5 LET THE SAINTS BE JOYFUL IN GLORY (i.e., in Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand (its the Day of God's Wrath, so the 144,000 have just arrived); 7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have ALL his saints. Praise ye the LORD."
FM: Sister, Psalm 149:1-9 doesn't say a word about "the saints in Heaven on the Day of God's wrath." You know it, I know it, and anyone else who reads the Psalm knows it. In fact, the Psalm specifically says, "Sing unto the Lord a new song, and His praise in the congregation of the saints. Let Israel rejoice in Him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King." I could quote more but this is sufficient. In the context "the congregation of the saints" is obviously referring to Israel, and Israel is not in Heaven. Israel's inheritance is an earthly inheritance! They were promised the land of Canaan for an "everlasting possession" and they shall have it. Further, their "King" will reign in their midst right here on Earth "for evermore," Ezekiel 43:1-9. This Psalm which you are applying to Heaven on the day of God's wrath is far better suited to apply to Israel and the redeemed on Earth during the Millennial Kingdom. INDEED THE PSALM DOES MENTION THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN FROM VERSE 5 ONWARD, making a clear distinction between Israel on the earth in the first four verses, and the saints in Heaven in the last five verses who are to execute judgment upon "the heathen" on the earth. However, the Psalm doesn't say a word about "the day of God's wrath."
MJ: Psa 148:1,2 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD FROM THE HEAVENS: praise him in the heights.
Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, ALL HIS HOSTS." They are in Heaven.
MJ: Psa 149:1 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation (qahal, ASSEMBLY) of saints."
MJ: Heb 12:22,23 says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY and church of the firstborn, which are written IN HEAVEN, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" (i.e., when the saints all become immortal at the second Rapture).
MJ: The type in Nu 10:2-4 tells us some things we need to know. It says, "Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them (plural, i.e., both) FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, and for the journeying of the camps (plural). And when they shall blow with them (plural, i.e., both), ALL THE ASSEMBLY SHALL ASSEMBLE THEMSELVES TO THEE (i.e., at the second Rapture) at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with one trumpet (i.e., at the first Rapture), then the princes (i.e., elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee" (i.e., we see the 24 elders caught up in the first Rapture in Rev 4:1-4.
MJ: Psa 149:5 says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory". That is in Heaven.
FM: Dear sister, I have no doubt whatsoever about your love for the Lord and His Word and I count you a dear sister in Christ. However, I do have some questions about how you are applying the Scriptures. You are not "rightly dividing" the Word of truth, especially where Bible prophecy in Revelations is concerned, as all of God's people are instructed to do by the Word itself, 2 Timothy 2:15. I hope that you will not be offended by my answers to you, for I have no desire to offend but rather to help. I shouldn't have to remind you that even the great Apollos was taken aside by a couple of lesser known early believers and instructed in "the way of God more perfectly," Acts 18:24-26. I am not your enemy! But I also refuse to "bend and bow" to the "theories" and "opinions" of men in "interpreting" the Word. As I have said many times, most of the Word does not need to be "interpreted." All it needs is to be believed for what it actually and literally says and teaches. Context, time periods, figures of speech, who is being spoken to, and who is speaking, etc., all must be taken into consideration and be carefully examined if the Word is to be "rightly divided." This is exactly what I have tried to do in answering your email. May the Spirit of the Lord convey this to you.
FM: Sister, my recent study was written over a period of weeks, not hours or even days. That study was anointed with much prayer and soul searching and the leadership of God's Holy Spirit, the Lord being the witness. I backed up every point I made with book, chapter, and verse from God's Word so that every reader could study the references out for themselves. I have no apology to make to anyone for the statement made and truths set forth in that study. I stand by what I wrote without apology, and the Lord will bring it to pass in His own due time.
MJ: Good for you. Acts 28:31 says, "Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, WITH ALL CONFIDENCE."
FM: God bless you sister. I'll see you in glory soon, for our Lord is coming for His New Covenant believers real SOON. Pray for me. In the love of Christ and His Word,
I have and I will pray for you. Would you pray for me and my husband Ed too? He had 5-bypass heart surgery in 1998. He's been in bed ever since he had pneumonia March 10, 2010. He can't stand up, much less walk. We were both in the hospital with pneumonia at that time, but the Lord has made it possible for me, at 82, to take care of him, at 87 in spite of my bad back. Thank you Lord.
Agape, Marilyn Agee
Pro and Con 1626 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: firstname.lastname@example.org
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© 1996-2011, Marilyn J. Agee; Updated 3-16-11