Pro and Con 1640

Posted 12-10-2011

Please pray for the health of Bonnie Gaunt. See my Home Page for more information about this need. She has Jaundice, and pain. If I remember right, she is 84.

Solar Eclipse over Antarctica 11-25-11

Sign of the Rapture?

A Total Lunar Eclipse will take place Sat Dec 10, 2011 (Kislev 14, 5772). Since I expect the Rapture on Kislev 25, Dec 21, 2011, this eclipse could be a sign of the coming Rapture. If I remember right, this is the last Total Lunar Eclipse until the Tetrads in 2014 and 2015. Those mark the general time of the end of the Great Tribulation, so a Total Lunar Eclipse may be to alert us that the beginning of the Time of the End is approaching. Western US should be able to see it at daybreak Saturday.

VIDEO of Earth's Red and Green Aurora From the Space Station

http://vimeo.com/32001208

Incoming e-mail, Re: KISLEV 24--FROM THIS DAY AND UPWARD--WHAT IS THE MEANING?

From: Rgreese49@aol.com

The purpose of this post is to see if the word "UPWARD" has Rapture implications, in the Haggai 2 passage. Obviously, at the Rapture, the dead in Christ rise and go UPWARD, and then the Bride of Christ follows, also going UPWARD. Then Jesus takes us all UPWARD. But let's look at the Hebrew translation of the word UPWARD.

The reason this may be important, is because this word "UPWARD" is referring to Kislev 24, Hanukkah Eve. In 2011, that date is Dec. 20th. I have presented to you at least 7 or 8 posts on the POSSIBLE FULFILLMENT of the Rapture/Sudden Destruction, on Kislev 24, Hanukkah Eve, Dec. 20, 2011. Several others have posted very compelling posts also concerning this Hanukkah season in 2011. There seems to be a whole lot of evidence, both Biblical, and also using occultic Satanic numbers pointing us DIRECTLY TO KISLEV 24, 2011. There certainly is enough information for us to be SOUNDING THE ALARM for this date, and for the whole Hanukkah season. Only God knows for sure if this will be the time of the Sudden Destruction/Rapture.

Haggai 2, according to Grant Jeffrey, is the parallel chapter to Ezekiel 38--39, the Battle of Gog and Magog (World War 3). THREE times, in Haggai 2, the date of Kislev 24 is given for the time of this earth-changing, monumental Battle of the Ages. We certainly do not have long to see if this will be fulfilled yet in 2011.

Haggai 2:18--19 says, "Consider now from this day AND UPWARD, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation of the Lord's temple was laid, consider it...from this day will I bless you." Bonnie Gaunt, author of many popular books on Bible gematria, recently stated that she believes also that this is a very important verse in Bible prophecy, and that she knows of no other such strong emphasis on a particular date found in the Word of God. Kislev 24--God says to CONSIDER THIS DAY.

So, let's look at the Hebrew meaning of the word "UPWARD". The word is "maal" in Hebrew, which means "forward". It would be easy to substitute the word "forward", for the word "UPWARD" in this verse, and see how it could fit. I have no problem with that.

However, in Bible College, I was always taught, when using Strong's Concordance, to also look at the derivitive word, for more meaning, or more clarification. So, let's do that. The word from which "maal" is derived from is the word "alah", which has several possible meanings, including the following:

"to ascend, arise up, cause to ascend up, carry up, cause to come up, depart, fetch up, make to go up, lift up, mount up, to rise up, raise, restore, shoot forth up, to spring up, and to take away up".

You talk about Rapture implications for the word "UPWARD"!!! From THIS DAY (KISLEV 24) AND UPWARD!!! Is the Lord giving us a MAJOR Rapture clue in this verse, as to the timing of Kislev 24, Hanukkah Eve? The Feast of Hanukkah has all kinds of Rapture implications. Will it be on Dec. 20th??? Are you preparing to go UPWARD? Just look at all of those possible meanings again. WOW!!! Does this verse mean at this day of Kislev 24 UPWARD WE GO?

Dec. 20th, Kislev 24, is a Tuesday, 40 days from 11/11/11, the day of the week that the Bridegroom comes for the Bride. Will you be part of the Bride? Are you making yourself ready, without spot or wrinkle, to be part of the Bride? Jesus gave everything that He had, including His life, including leaving His home in Heaven, including experiencing the worst form of death possible in crucifixion, including separation from the Father, including extreme humiliation and pain and agony, ALL FOR YOU AND ME.

The average Christian just takes it for granted that if they are saved, the Rapture is an automatic benefit. I am convinced that the Word teaches that the Rapture is a REWARD, and only for those whom the Lord finds worthy (Luke 21).

2nd Peter 3: 11--14 says, "Seeing that all these things shall be dissolved, WHAT MANNER OF PERSONS OUGHT YE TO BE IN ALL CONVERSATION AND GODLINESS, LOOKING FOR AND HASTING UNTO THE COMING OF THE DAY OF GOD...BE DILIGENT THAT YE MAY BE FOUND OF HIM IN PEACE, WITHOUT SPOT, AND BLAMELESS.

Verse 17 continues, "YE THEREFORE, BELOVED, SEEING YE KNOW THESE THINGS BEFORE, BEWARE LEST YE ALSO, BEING LED AWAY WITH THE ERROR OF THE WICKED, FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS."

I am seriously concerned that many people reading this post are doing nothing to prepare to be part of the Bride. A huge disappointment may await many Christians. Pray, and be open to the leading of the Holy Spirit, and allow Him to reveal to you your state of readiness, or unreadiness. Do NOT wait any longer. Our preparation time, whether it be two weeks, or four months, is almost over. PREPARE YOUR HEART FOR THE COMING OF OUR BLESSED LORD AND SAVIOUR.
Maranatha! Ron Reese, rgreese49@aol.com

My reply

> > The reason this may be important, is because this word "UPWARD" is referring to Kislev 24, Hanukkah Eve.
> > the word "alah", which has several possible meanings, including the following:
> > "to ascend, arise up, cause to ascend up, carry up, cause to come up, depart, fetch up, make to go up, lift up, mount up, to rise up, raise, restore, shoot forth up, to spring up, and to take away up".

Thanks much for looking up these meanings. Since 2 Thess 2:3's "he apostasia" means the departing, the word "alah" meaning depart is so fitting. Both seem to apply to the Rapture.

However, I see FROM this day and UPWARD a little differently than you do. Think about 1Cor 3:11 and Rev 21:14 as you read Haggai 2:15-19. Words in parentheses are mine. 1Cor 3:11 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ." Jesus is the base foundation upon which the wall is built.

Rev 21:14 says, "And the wall of the city (the heavenly city) had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."

Hag 2:15-19 says, "And now, I pray you, consider (sum labab, take it to heart) FROM this day (Kislev 24) and UPWARD (i.e., on Kislev 25), FROM before (on Kislev 24) a stone (the 12 foundations of the wall, the apostles) was laid (at the Rapture) upon a stone (Jesus, the foundation underneath the stones of the wall) in the TEMPLE OF THE LORD: 16 Since those days were, when one came to an heap of twenty measures, there were but ten: when one came to the pressfat for to draw out fifty vessels out of the press, there were but twenty. 17 I smote you with blasting and with mildew and with hail in all the labours of your hands; yet ye turned not to me, saith the LORD. 18 Consider (take it to heart) NOW from this day (Kislev 24) and upward (Kislev 25), from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month, even from the day that the foundation (Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid (i.e., Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), consider it. 19 Is the seed (Jesus, Gen 3:15) yet in the barn? (a saying meaning is the seed in the womb, or is she pregnant) yea (YES, Kislev 24 is the date of Jesus' conception, and Tishri 1 is the date of his birth), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate (meaning the upright, i.e., the wise-virgin believers), and the olive tree (Israel with the Gentiles grafted in), hath not brought forth (i.e., been born into a new world, or been raptured): FROM (after, i.e., on Kislev 25 after) this day (Kislev 24) will I bless you."

I take it that the Rapture of the wise virgins, those whom Christ has baptized with the oil of the Holy Spirit and who have retained enough of the Holy Spirit, will be on Wed Kislev 25, Dec 21, 2011, the Feast of Dedication. These saints, out of all nations, will sing the NEW SONG (Rev 5:9).

I expect the foolish virgins, those without enough oil of the Holy Spirit to be caught up in the First-Trump Rapture, to be caught up in the Last-Trump Rapture on Tishri 1, 5776 (Mon Sept 14, 2015).

At that time, the 144,000 Israelites will be called virgins and will be added to the Bride group. Then the Marriage of the Lamb will take place. Rev 14:1-5 calls the 144,000 virgins and has them singing the NEW SONG that the wise virgins sing in Rev 5:9 after the First-Trump Rapture of Rev 4:1.

According to Dan 12:11, there will be 7 months between the Marriage of the Lamb on Tishri 1, 5776 (a leap year), Mon Sept 14, 2015, and the return to Earth at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5776, Sat April 9, 2016. No wonder Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath.

I'm expecting the First-Trump Rapture on Kislev 25, the first day of the Feast of Dedication, Wed Dec 21, 2011. John 10:22,23 says, "And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter (Dec 21 is considered the first day of winter). 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch."

It could even be Dec 22, because this year, the actual winter solstice is on Dec 22. The Rapture could take place on two days anyway, because there are two days on Earth at the same time. In Australia, it will already be Dec 22 when it is Dec 21 here in California.

Hanukkah (the 8th feast), the Feast of Dedication (of the Temple, and we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit), the Feast of Lights (i.e., of the wise virgins who have oil of the Holy Spirit in their vessels, bodies, with their lamps) lasts 8 days.

Eight is the number of Jesus. It also means new beginning, and the Rapture will be a new beginning for us. This would be a perfect time for the Rapture, whether it takes place in one day or in 8 days.

At the Feast of Dedication, Jerusalem was lit up by the lights at the Temple. Will New Jerusalem be lit up by our lights at the time of the Rapture? We will know soon.

The 7 feasts were to be kept by Israel. Maybe the 8th feast is to be kept by the Church. Agape

My reply to a post on Five Doves

Re: Lauren (3 Dec 2011) "re: Ted Porter BIRTH YEAR OF YESHUA PROVEN BIBLICALLY AND HISTORICALLY"

> > The birth of Yeshua has been a point of confusion for decades and yet Luke 3:1 and the chronology of the Roman emperors PIN POINT A DEFINITIVE DATE.

> > Luke 3:1a... In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, 2b...the word of God came to John the son of Zechariah in the wilderness.

> > HISTORY OF TIBERIUS

> > The accession of Tiberius proved intensely awkward. After Augustus had been buried and deified, and his will read and honored, the Senate convened on 18 September 14 A.D. to inaugurate the new reign and officially "confirm" Tiberius as emperor.
http://www.roman-emperors.org/tiberius.htm
Quoted from the link above:
"From A.D. 4 to 14 Tiberius was clearly Augustus's successor. When he was adopted, he also received grants of proconsular power and tribunician power; and in A.D. 13 his proconsular power was made co-extensive with that of Augustus. [[11]] In effect, Tiberius was now co-princeps with Augustus so that when the latter finally died on 19 August A.D. 14, Tiberius's position was unassailable and the continuation of the Principate a foregone conclusion. After 55 years living at the behest of his stepfather, Tiberius finally assumed the mantle of sole power."

My comments:

Your figures are built on the fact that Tiberius became Sole Rex in 14 AD. That is true, but he became Co-Rex in 12 AD. I found the coin below minted in 13 AD with Tiberius on one side and Augustus on the other. For sure, he was Co-Rex then.

Being off by 2 years to start with skews everything built on it. Revise the figures by two years, and you will be off to a good start. Jesus was baptized near his 30th birthday in the 15th Year of Tiberius. which was 26 AD, Heb. 3786.

He was crucified on Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790, in 30 AD. The Crucifixion was on the preparation of the Passover, Nisan 14, 3790. The 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth were Thursday (day, from about 3 PM to 6 PM), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).

Double check: Herod started to build the Temple in 19/20 BC. It had been under construction 46 years in AD 27, the first Passover of Jesus' ministry.

Now, everything else will fall into place easily.

Near his birthday, i.e., on Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement, Jesus stood up in the Synagogue in Nazareth and read from Isa 61 to announce the coming Jubilee Year. The Jubilee started on Nisan 1, 3788, in 28 AD. That was the last Jubilee Israel kept for the Temple was burned in 70 AD.

Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24 (Haggai 2:15,18,19) and born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC. Herod died between the eclipse of March 13, 4 BC and Passover. Agape

Found on Five Doves

Re: Bruce Warner (3 Dec 2011)
"TWO 'PREVIOUS' TRIBULATIONS BY GOD'S WRATH SHOW US EXACTLY HOW IT WILL BE......"

Dear Doves,
JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN:

The 'very day' Noah entered the arc the tribulation by God's wrath began upon those left-behind. The 'very day' Lot left Sodom the tribulation by God's wrath began upon those left-behind. Just as it was in the days of Noah and Lot, on the 'very day' of the rapture the "great tribulation" by God's wrath will begin upon those left-behind just as it is written. The rapture will occur on the 'very day' God's wrath comes upon the whole world.

READ IT FOR YOURSELF IN: Luke 17:26-30
Come Lord Jesus! Bruce Warner

My reply

Re: Bruce Warner (3 Dec 2011)
"TWO 'PREVIOUS' TRIBULATIONS BY GOD'S WRATH SHOW US EXACTLY HOW IT WILL BE......"

> > Just as it was in the days of Noah and Lot, on the 'very day' of the rapture the "great tribulation" by God's wrath will begin upon those left-behind just as it is written. The rapture will occur on the 'very day' God's wrath comes upon the whole world.

That is true for the Last-Trump Rapture. It takes place on the Day of The Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath.

The following verses show the progression of the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:14,15 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God".

Rev 8:1,2 says, "And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets."

The seven trumpets show us what happens on the Day of God's Wrath which is also the great and terrible Day of the Lord.

1Th 5:1-11 says, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the NIGHT. 3 For when THEY (the Tribulation saints) shall say, Peace and safety; then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape."

4 "But ye, brethren (believers), are not in darkness, that that day (DAY OF THE LORD) should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE ARE NOT OF THE NIGHT, NOR OF DARKNESS. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For GOD HATH NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. 11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

The Last-Trump Rapture will probably be like it was for Elijah. 2Ki_2:11 says, "And it came to pass, as they (Elijah and Elisha) still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

The First-Trump Rapture will probably be more like it was for Enoch. Gen 5:24 says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him." Agape

Found on Five Doves, Re: Benny C: "This lunar eclipse will include an 'impossible' sight"

Benny C (9 Dec 2011)
"This lunar eclipse will include an 'impossible' sight"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45589117/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.TuDibXJK1kh

Dear Jon and All Five Dove Watchers,

Although this is my first time writing in, I have been an avid Five Dove subscriber since I first came across the site in 2005. I must say that this is a wonderful watchful community of believers worldwide, and I great respect and love everyone who has had a post on here over the years. I am so thankful that there is a body of believers who care enough to be watching for our Great Redeemer so intently, that they just have to share their reports with the rest of the community. I have learned so much from my family of friends here, that I feel as though I know a lot of you. Thanks to all for your wonderful insights and testimonies.

I have been a believer in The Lord Yeshua since the so called Jesus Movement back in the mid seventies when I lived as part of a christian commune in Santa Rosa California. I believe that we are so extremely close to seeing our precious Lord face to face, I just wanted to be apart of this family here before we leave this world.

Many of you may know , some may not, but in Genisis 1;14 where The Lord has written that He will place the Sun, Moon and stars in the heavens for >>> "SIGNS", the first word He choose, and then days, years (Sabbatical, Jubilee) and seasons (Moed) Feasts!

According to nasa.gov , lunar eclipse page, article in years 2001 through 2100, It seems the Lord God has placed The Moon, as eclipses strategically in a position as to bookend seven years, beginning NOW. we are witnessing the last Blood Moon in a set of three come this Saturday. On Dec 21st, winter solstice of last year there was one. This past June 15th there was one, a long one directly over Jerusalem. Now the last on Saturday. This set of three Blood Moons will happen again, almost a mirror image, in 2018/2019. This will NOT HAPPEN AGAIN THIS CENTURY! This to me is a clear witness from The Almighty that Daniel's last seven is about to begin!

I have read many articles from my precious sister Marilyn Agee and Brother Ron Reese and others that the trib should have already begun, and adding to that the count of Jubilee cycles from 1966/1967, it should all be over by the end of 2015, but why is God placing the blood moon eclipses in the heavens and bracketing seven years between starting this year of early 2012? I great respect all of your opinions here, but if anyone can solve this conundrum of sorts, I would like to hear from you.

Whatever the answer, we all know that we are so very close now. Will this Hanukkah bring redemption of the body to those who know Christ, only time will tell, and not that much time is left now.

Until we meet in the air,
Shalom and Great Joy in our awesome Redeemer! Benny C __ Welcome to the Doves, Benny! John

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > I have been a believer in The Lord Yeshua since the so called Jesus Movement back in the mid seventies

I'm glad you finally posted. I can sure identify with the era of the late sixties and early seventies. Young believers called themselves Jesus Freaks. There was a group that came to our house (in La Mirada, CA) to study the Bible with me. I didn't say we were having Bible Study. I didn't set a time. They just came on their own schedule and we sat down at the kitchen table and studied the Bible, most of the time until 1 AM. I cooked lots of chili in those days, never knowing who might be there at supper time. It started with our daughter's friends she met in Cerritos Jr. College.

Those kids would go to a couple of eating places in Whittier, Jay's Coffee Shop and Winchell's Donuts, and study their Bibles, always ready to talk about Jesus to anyone that would join them. Belief in Jesus spread through one whole family. The parents, the kids and the grandchildren.

> > It seems the Lord God has placed The Moon, as eclipses strategically in a position as to bookend seven years, beginning NOW. we are witnessing the last Blood Moon in a set of three come this Saturday. On Dec 21st, winter solstice of last year there was one. This past June 15th there was one, a long one directly over Jerusalem. Now the last on Saturday. This set of three Blood Moons will happen again, almost a mirror image, in 2018/2019. This will NOT HAPPEN AGAIN THIS CENTURY!

I noticed something else that keeps popping up, Dec 21 (7 + 7 + 7, and 7 means perfection and completion). You reminded me of the Blood Moon on Dec 21, 2010. It looks like the First-Trump Rapture will be Dec 21, 2011, and the False Prophet may be Satan-possessed Mid-Trib on Dec 21, 2012, the end of the Aztec, Mayan and Cherokee calendars. All 3 of these dates are made up of 1's, 2's and zeroes (12, 21, 2010; 12, 21, 2011; and 12, 21, 2012). That should get our attention.

> > why is God placing the blood moon eclipses in the heavens and bracketing seven years between starting this year of early 2012?

Thanks for figuring out about these Blood Moons. They seem to bracket the Tribulation. 2018/19 is the Hebrew 5779.

However, that seems to be an outside limit. The Great Tribulation will be shortened. From the outside limit, we have to back up until we find a Leap Year, for Dan 12:11 shows that there will be 7 months (instead of the usual 6) between Tishri 1, the Day of God's Wrath, and the following Nisan 1, the Second Advent. The year that fits is 5776 (2015/16). I think the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years will be Nisan 1, 5776, Sat April 9, 2016. No wonder Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath. Saturday is the Sabbath.

A Sabbatic Year has to preceed the Jubilee Year, and 5775 is Sabbatic. To me that locks in the end date. Agape

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