Pro and Con 1645

Posted 1-5-12

The Mayan Calendar

The Aztec calendar.

To me, it seems obvious that both had the same designer.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Rapture

70 x 7 = 490 until the return of our LORD, minus 7 year of the tribulation = 483 gentile years or 476 Jewish years. Gentile years are 365 and Jewish years are 360. The first Zionist congress: 1897 + 117 Jewish years = 2014. I hope this is the year of the rapture. If we knew that 2014 was correct then we could go back 476 (483) and come up with 1536. If we could know in what year the 483 years begin, then I think we would know the gentile year of the Rapture. I really do not know very much, but I do like Hal Lindsay and Grant Jeffries. I also like reading your views on The Bible. Thank you.

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > 70 x 7 = 490 until the return of our LORD, minus 7 year of the tribulation = 483 gentile years or 476 Jewish years. Gentile years are 365 and Jewish years are 360.

Not having a mathematical mind, or a fantastic memory (I'm almost 83 now), I don't want to try to remember whether I used gentile years with 365 days or Jewish years at 360 days. I need an easier way.

Gregorian years are 364 days, or 365 in a Leap Year.

There are 6 types of Hebrew (or Jewish) years, and none have 360 days. Those are ESTIMATED TIME. Their actual years are 353 (deficient), 354 (regular), 355 (complete), and in leap years, 383 (deficient LY), 384 (regular LY), and 385 (complete LY) days. An average would be 369.

The Jews have alternating 29 and 30-day months, and a 12-month normal year, or a 13-month leap year. The 12th and 13th months in a Leap Year are Adar I and Adar II. Leap Years in their 19-year cycle are in the years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19, not as easy to deal with as our leap years every 4 years.

Using the Bible's estimated time is much easier for me.

To tell which are Leap Years, I go to Hebrew Date Converter
(http://www.hebcal.com/converter/?gd=14&gm=9&gy=2015&hd=10&hm=Tishrei&hy=5776&h2g=Compute+Gregorian+Date), I put in Adar II, any day, and the Jewish year, then click the bar to convert Hebrew to Gregorian date. If the Hebrew year is not a leap year, Adar II will change to Adar I. Only Leap Years will keep an Adar II date after conversion.

The number of calendar days between Passover and Tabernacles usually do not change. The month Nisan has 30 days. Iyar has 29. Sivan has 30. Tamuz has 29. Av has 30. Elul has 29. Tishri has 30. The first month that alternates between 29 and 30 days is Cheshvan, the 8th month.

However, there is a modern exception, so I use Calendar Converter at fourmilab (http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/) It says, "In addition, there are constraints on which days of the week on which a year can begin and to SHIFT OTHERWISE REQUIRED EXTRA DAYS TO PRIOR YEARS to keep the length of the year within the prescribed bounds. This isn't easy, and the computations required are correspondingly intricate."

When studying the Jewish Calendar, I constructed it for the years 5 BC to 1 BC, but no more. Give me the easy way. Let them figure out the hard stuff.

A GODSEND, ESTIMATED TIME: 360-DAY YEARS

We still use estimated time today to give quick ballpark estimates, so we should be able to recognize estimated time in the Bible. Just as today, there are 360-day years, or 12 30-day month years.

Some people think years actually had 360 days in Noah's day. However, in Gen 7 and 8, estimated time was used when the cloudy skies kept Noah from seeing the Moon. Gen 7:24 says, "And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days." That was 5 30-day months. Then Gen 8:2-4 says, "The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; 3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. 4 And the ark rested in the SEVENTH MONTH, on the SEVENTEENTH DAY of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat."

1260 DAYS

In Dan 7:25 and 12:7, a time, times, and half a time equals 3.5 estimated 360-day years or 1260 days. In Rev 12:6, the 1260 days equals 3.5 estimated 360-day years. In Dan 12:11, the 1290 days means 1260 days plus an extra 30-day month, because the final year of the shortened Great Tribulation is a leap year.

ESTIMATED TIME MAKES FIGURING THE TIMING OF END-TIME EVENTS EASIER

In 1917, Gen. Allenby took Jerusalem from the Ottoman Turks and the Balfour Declaration was signed. 1917 plus 50 years (an estimated Jubilee cycle) = 1967, year of the Six-Day War. The year 1967 + 50 = 2017, the outside limit for the Second Advent. That's close enough. I won't go beyond 2017.

THE FIRST DAY OF SACRED, REGNAL AND JUBILEE YEARS IS NISAN 1

Therefore, I think the Jubilee year should be announced on the previous Day of Atonement and actually start with Jesus' return on Nisan 1, 5776, Sat, April 9, 2016. It would end Nisan 1, 5777, Tue, March 28, 2017. Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath, and his return seems to be on the Saturday Sabbath.

> > The first Zionist congress: 1897 + 117 Jewish years = 2014. I hope this is the year of the rapture.

I hope the First-Trump Rapture will be Dec 21, 2011 and the Last-Trump Rapture will be Sept 14, 2015.

ESTIMATED FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE

The final year, 2017, minus a 7-year Tribulation = 2011 for the First-Trump Rapture. It looks like it will be Kislev 25, 5772, Dec 21, 2011, the first day of WINTER and the first day of Hanukkah, when the flagon of oil that was only enough for one day was miraculously replenished eight days. Eight means new beginnings, and it ties in beautifully with the Rapture on Hanukkah.

John 10:22,23 says, "And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and IT WAS WINTER. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch." We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

The first day of Hanukkah doesn't always fall on Dec 21, the first day of winter, but it does this year.

ESTIMATED LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE

Rev 6:17; 7:9-14 places the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath. That will probably be the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015.

THE 1290 DAYS

The space of time between the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1, 5776 and the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1, 5776 will be 7 months (Eze 39:12,13) instead of the usual 6, because that terminal year will be a Jewish Leap Year with the 13th month. That's why Dan 12:11 says 1290 days instead of 1260 days.

SECOND ADVENT IN A JUBILEE YEAR

The Jewish year 5776 is a Leap Year and Nisan 1, 5776 seems to be the Jubilee Year when Christ returns. Nisan 1 is the first day of the Sacred, Regnal and Jubilee years.

THE SABBATIC YEAR THAT PRECEDES THE JUBILEE YEAR

A Sabbatic Year, the 49th year, has to precede a Jubilee Year, the 50th year, and 5775 is a Sabbatic Year. The choices of Sabbatic Years are 5768, 5775 and 5782. The first is past and the last is too far into the future for me to consider it. Therefore, I think the Jubilee will be announced on the Day of Atonement, Tishri 10, 5776, ten days after the Day of God's Wrath. Then the Jubilee Year would start on the following Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the day of the Second Advent.

THE 1335 DAYS OF DANIEL 12:12,13

After Jesus returns, the war of Armageddon (Christ's army against Satan's army) will take the evil ones out of the world. Christ's government will be set up. Debts will be forgiven. Then the Hebrews will be returned to their inherited plot of land in Israel. Daniel will stand in his own lot on the 45th day following the Second Advent (1335 minus 1290 = 45).

I am no prophet, and I can be wrong, but this is the way I think things will turn out. See if you agree. Agape

My reply to an email (omitted)

As per your source document you copied:
> > The Jewish feast of Hanukkah occurred on 25th Kislev which corresponds to our month of December. Up until 1583 AD, the time when the Gregorian calendar was introduced, the 25th Kislev and 25th December were the same day.

If Kislev 25 was on the Julian Calendar instead of the Hebrew Calendar, I could buy that, but we are talking about the Hebrew Calendar. Kislev 25 does not always fall on the same day on the Julian Calendar.

PROOF

Calendar Converter at Four Mile Lab says,
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5770 = Julian Nov 29, 2009
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5771 = Julian Nov 19, 2010
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5772 = Julian Dec 8, 2011
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5773 = Julian Nov 26, 2012
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5774 = Julian Dec 15, 2013
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5775 = Julian Dec 4, 2014
Hebrew Kislev 25, 5776 = Julian Nov 24, 2015

> > Jewish historian Josephus, records that there was a Jewish holiday celebrating Herod's death on 2nd day of the month Shebat.

Josephus mentioned the Passover holiday.

PROOF

In Wars.II.1.1, 3, after Herod's "very expensive funeral", Josephus mentioned "the feast of unleavened bread, which was NOW AT HAND, and is by the Jews called the PASSOVER".

> > B. Only 4 eclipses of Moon near Herod's death. I. Earliest was 15 September 5 BC. Eliminated as too late for Passover.

This eclipse would have followed Jesus' birth, the Feast of Trumpets, Sept 4, 5 BC. Herod was killed between the eclipse of March 13 and Passover, April 11 or 12, 4 BC.

> > Partial eclipse 13 March 4 BC. Passover began April 12th.

Listed below are NASA/Fred Espenak's, lunar eclipses 5 BC to 1 BC. Keep in mind that astronomers have inserted a non-existant zero year. Therefore "-0004" is really BC 5.

Jesus was conceived Kislev 24 in 6 BC.

PROOF

Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider (sum lebab, take it to heart) now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (i.e., Kislev), even from the day that the foundation (i.e., Jesus) of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. 19 Is the seed (Jesus, Gen 3:15) yet in the barn? (a saying, meaning is she prgnant) yea (YES), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel), and the pomegranate (which means upright), and the olive tree (Israel with the saved Gentiles grafted in), hath not brought forth (i.e., lifted up): from this day (i.e., after this day) will I bless you" (i.e., the First-Trump Rapture will probably be on Kislev 25, the first day of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, the Feast of Dedication).

On Hanukkah, the Feast of Dedication, the sacred oil for one day was put in the lampstand. It miraculously lasted eight days.

The 25th of Kislev, 5772 = Wed, 21 December 2011. Hope that will be the day of the First-Trump Rapture.

There's that 21 that David Doughtry, Valerie Skrysnek, and John Tng saw. David saw a sparkling white 21 in a blue cloud in his living room. If I remember right, Valerie saw a blue 21 on her white garage door and John saw a blue 21.

John 10:22,23 says, "And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and IT WAS WINTER. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch." Solomon means peaceable; perfect; one who recompenses.

Dec 21 is considered the first day of winter.

Jesus was born Tishri 1 in 5 BC, probably Sept 4, the Moon was under Virgo's feet that night (Rev 12).

1st Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0004 (5 BC) Sep 15
2nd Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0003 (4 BC) Mar 13
Herod died between this eclipse and Passover, April 11 or 12.
3rd Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0003 (4 BC) Sep 05
4th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0002 (3 BC) Jan 31
5th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0002 (3 BC) Mar 02
6th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0002 (3 BC) Jul 27
7th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0002 (3 BC) Aug 26
8th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0001 (2 BC) Jan 20
9th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born -0001 (2 BC) Jul 17
10th Lunar Eclipse after Jesus born 0000 (1 BC) Jan 10

> > WHY CELEBRATE THE NATIVITY ON DECEMBER 25TH?

(1). The Jewish Feast of Hanukkah - the Festival of Lights or Feast of Dedication (John 10:22) - when children lit candles and sang hymns. Jewish Christians saw Messiah as the "Light of the world". Occurred on 25th Kislev (December) on the Jewish calendar.

Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24 and born on Tishri 1.

> > (2). Roman Festival of the Saturnalia - the birth of the 'New Sun' celebrated at the winter solstice (December 25th). Roman Christians commemorated the coming of the "Sun of Righteousness that arose with healing in His wings" (Malachi 4:2).

Satan tried to overwrite the truth with fiction to keep people from recognizing the truth. I think we will be taken to Saturn, the third heaven Paul was taken to (II Cor 12:1-4) on Kislev 25, 5772, Dec 21, 2011.

II Cor 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn). 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise".

Vatican Dedicated to Luciferian World Gov't

October 25, 2011
http://www.henrymakow.com/vatican_confirms_it_is_under_l.html

[The Vatican] plan would destroy national sovereignty ... It is Hegelian dialectics at its best. They are aiming for Marxism from both conservative (Catholic) and liberal (new age, Democrats, Occupy Wall Street) sides. The synthesis is unavoidable.

The Vatican Justice and Peace Department released a paper Monday, "Towards Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of a Global Public Authority," calling for a "Global Institution" run by the United Nations to rule the globe's finances....

This materialistic view goes against 2000 years of Christian thought, which states that Jesus Christ is the final fulfillment of human needs and that God takes (economic, material) care even of birds and the lilies in the fields....

Incoming e-mail, Re: Bride of Christ

I read your article on "The body of Christ or bride of Christ."

...I have some very important questions to ask you regarding your article; at least to me they are important.

Thanking you for your response in advance

My reply

I take the Word of God literally. God knows all and means what he says.

> > will the Bride be raptured without the body because the body is not living as it should be?

It is my understanding that both the Bride and the Tribulation saints are part of the Body of Christ, but they are raptured at two different times.

TWO RAPTURES

I believe that there are two Raptures. The First-Trump Rapture is in I Thess 4:16,17. The Last-Trump Rapture is in I Cor 15:51-53.

THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE

I Th 4:16,17 says, 16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

1Co 15:42 says, "the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption".

As I understand it, those caught up in the first Rapture, the wise virgins, will at that time become incorruptable, but not yet actually immortal. When the 2nd Rapture takes place, the whole Body of Christ, including the foolish virgins, will become immortal in the blink of an eye.

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE

I Cor 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE shall ALL (i.e., including Paul, one of the 24 elders caught up in Rev 4:1) be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED INCORRUPTIBLE, and we shall be changed (i.e., actually become immortal). 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, AND this mortal must put on immortality."

> > Then I discovered that there appears to be fairly convincing evidence that a second "Rapture" (this time involving the body and the two witness'), will take place before the actual "Wrath of God" falls upon the earth (Mid-Trib.)

I think the Wrath of God will be one literal day, the Day of the Lord, Jesus' Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day is a type, at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation. The reason it will be a long day is because there will be an asteroid impact. Satan's home in the skies is on the asteroid Wormwood (Rev 8:11). It will knock the Earth upside down for awhile.

Isa_24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and TURNETH IT UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., Jesus); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old (i.e., when the angels were tested, before Adam). Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab (Satan's planet that is now our Asteroid Belt), and wounded the dragon?" (Satan).

When the planet Rahab was split, Mars took an awful beating. One side is dreadfully scarred. Earth probably took a beating too. That may be why Gen 1:2 says, "And the earth was (hayah, lit., became, showing that there was a change) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a ROCK? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY (i.e., near the Euphrates): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

I think the mountain (piece of the asteroid, probably split off Wormwood at the Roche Belt 11,000 miles out) of Rev 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea, and Gog's army will be washed out of Israel's hair by a tsunami. At that time, I expect Damascus to no longer be a city. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Jewish Rights to Palestine Are Guaranteed by International Law

October 24, 2011 | Eli E. Hertz

Successive Israeli governments have failed to recognize the supreme importance of the "Mandate for Palestine" [24 July, 1922] a historical League of Nations document that set forth the irrevocable Jewish legal rights to settle anywhere in western Palestine, the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an entitlement unaltered by international law and valid to this day.

Leadership, both in Israel and in the Diaspora do practically nothing effective with the best legal weapon they will ever have: "The Mandate for Palestine."

In the first Report of the High Commissioner on the Administration of Palestine (1920-1925) presented to the British Secretary of State for the Colonies, and published in April 1925, the most senior official of the Mandate underscored how international guarantees for the existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine were achieved:

The [Balfour] Declaration was endorsed at the time by several of the Allied Governments; it was reaffirmed by the Conference of the Principal Allied Powers at San Remo in 1920; it was subsequently endorsed by unanimous resolutions of both Houses of the Congress of the United States; it was embodied in the Mandate for Palestine approved by the League of Nations in 1922; it was declared, in a formal statement of policy issued by the Colonial Secretary in the same year, 'not to be susceptible of change.'

Article 27 of the Mandate for Palestine states that the "consent of the Council of the League of Nations is required for any modification of the terms of this mandate." No such consent was ever passed.

Eleven successive British governments, Labor and Conservative, from David Lloyd George (1916-1922) through Clement Attlee (1945-1952) viewed themselves as duty-bound to fulfill the "Mandate for Palestine" placed in the hands of Great Britain by the League of Nations.

In 1947 the British put the future of western Palestine into the hands of the United Nations, the successor organization to the League of Nations which had established the Mandate for Palestine.

When describing trust agreements such as the Mandate for Palestine, Article 80 of the United States Charter states that "nothing in this Chapter shall be construed in or of itself to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states of any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments to which Members of the United Nations may respectively be parties".

Thus, the Mandate for Palestine is still in effect today.

It is time to tell the free democratic world:

Effective immediately, the Government of Israel reaffirms the Mandate for Palestine as the foundation and the starting point for any and all peace discussions between the Jewish state of Israel and the Arab inhabitant in Judea and Samaria.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Question for you

Question ?
Who is Daniel Nine speaking of ?
Jesus the Messiah or AC or BOTH ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
***My King James Bibles all have (The Coming of The Messiah) at the top of the page over Daniel Chapter Nine , as a reference phrase .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for your answer !

My reply

Dan 9:24-27 (KJV) says, "Seventy weeks (i.e., weeks of years, 490 years) are determined upon thy people (the Hebrews) and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy (i.e., Christ). 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off (karath, cut down, i.e., killed), but not for himself (for us):

"and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (i,e., the False Prophet) shall destroy the city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (i.e., the Temple, fulfilled in 70 AD); and THE END (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath, probably on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776, Sept 14, 2015) thereof shall be with a flood (i.e., an overflowing flood, i.e., a tsunami, because the asteroid Wormwood will split into two main pieces, one as big as a mountain will hit the Mediterranean Sea, the other will obliterate Babylon near the Euphrates), and unto the end of the war (i.e., of Gog and Magog, Eze 38) desolations are determined. 27 And he (i.e., the False Prophet) shall confirm the covenant with many (probably the UN) for one week (i.e., 7 years): and in the midst of the week he (the False Prophet) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (because he will sit in the Temple shewing himself that he is God), and for the overspreading of abominations (idols) he (the False Prophet) shall make it (the Temple) desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined (God's wrath) shall be poured upon the desolate" (or desolator, as a note in the margin of some Bibles says).

2Th_2:4 is talking about the False Prophet. It says, "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Thus, he desecrates the Temple Mid-Trib. Agape

The Many Names of Tishri 1

Rosh Hashannah,
Feast of Trumpets,
"The LAST Trump" , 1 Corinthians 15:52

Yom Teruah, Day of Awakening Blast
"The Day of Our Concealment", Isaiah 26:17-21 "The Feast that No Man Knows the Day or the Hour" ,
Matthew 24:36
Yom HaDin (Day of Judgement)
HaMelech (Coronation of the Messiah)
Yom HaZikaron (Day of Remembrance)
Opening of the Gates (Day when Heaven's Gates are Opened for the Home Taking)
Kiddushin/Nisu'im (The Wedding Ceremony)
The Tekia HaGedolah (The Last Trump)

Incoming e-mail, Re: On your Ezekiel's vision page...

I was doing some looking around on the www, initially about the Cherubim described in Genesis, guarding the tree of life and such, and I came to your page
http://prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com/cherub.html.

Interesting take on Ezekiel's vision... I can see how this could be a possible interpretation.. wheel (planet rotation) within wheel (planet orbit) and such (at least, that what I think I understand you getting to in that interpretation). But what about the rims and spokes mentioned for each wheel? Also, you mentioned the faces being the four cardinal points of the compass, and were also what were on the flags in the Isrealite encampment in the wilderness. I've looked and I don't see an eagle flag, and the closest to a man's face is the flag of Gad, which has 'troops'.

The best single location with the tribes layouts , flags, etc is here http://www.betemunah.org/tribes.html

Unless you were talking about something different altogether.

From my reading, I figured the 'eyes on the rims' may have been bolts or rivots securing the 'spokes' to the 'rims', and what he saw was more something right there in front of him, as opposed to seeing a vision such as described on the webpage. It was an interesting new perspective for me to consider, and a lot of it does make sense, just a few things about it that didn't to me.

Not sure how long ago it was this was posted, have you had any additional findings on the subject? I am very interested in it. Thanks

My reply

> > what about the rims and spokes mentioned for each wheel?

No rims or spokes are mentioned. One wheel was upon the Earth. Think about that. What kind of a wheel does Earth have--- its orbit. It rotates as it flies through space at about 67,000 miles per hour! Even so, it takes it a year to circle the Sun. If we weren't held down by gravity, we would fly off this speeding sphere.

Eze 1:15-21 says, "Now as I beheld the living (lively, flying) creatures, behold ONE WHEEL (orbit) UPON THE EARTH by the living (lively) creatures, with his four faces. (i.e., the sphere faces four directions at the same time) 16 The appearance of the wheels (orbits) and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl (clear): and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were (i.e., as if it were) a wheel in the middle of a wheel (i.e., the concentric circles of the four terrestrial planets). 17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not (i.e., they turned not aside, their spin kept them moving smoothly) when they went. 18 As for their rings (i.e., orbits without spokes or rims), they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes (i.e., their orbits were full orbs, full circles) ROUND about them four (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars). 19 And when the living (lively) creatures went, the wheels (orbits) went by them: and when the living (lively) creatures (i.e., creations) were lifted up from the earth, the wheels (orbits) were lifted up. 20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit (i.e., wind) of the living (lively) creature was in the wheels (orbits). 21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit (i.e., wind) of the living (i.e., lively) creature (i.e., creation) was in the wheels" (orbits). These four terrestrial planets fly on the wings of the wind.

> > From my reading, I figured the 'eyes on the rims' may have been bolts or rivots securing the 'spokes' to the 'rims', and what he saw was more something right there in front of him, as opposed to seeing a vision such as described on the webpage.

What he saw is clear in verse 1. It says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God." He looked up, saw the Sun and some of the planets orbiting it. At first, he saw the four terrestrial planets and the cloud, the Asteroid Belt. Later, he saw Jesus, both God and man, upon his throne on Saturn, the planet with brightness roundabout (v. 26-28).

The camp around the Tabernacle formed a cross. Each tribe pitched by the flag of their fathers.

Clarence Larkin is the one who figured out what the four faces stood for. Here is a page from his book.

http://www.biblefragrances.com/studies/fourbanners.html
Jewish tradition says the “four standards” under which Israel encamped in the wilderness, to the east, Judah, to the north, Dan, to the west, Ephraim, to the south, Reuben, were respectively a lion, an eagle, an ox, and a man, while in the midst was the tabernacle containing the Shekinah symbol of the Divine Presence.8

http://adbookeronline.com/id22.html
The children of Israel were to be encamped by their standard around the Tabernacle: Num.2:2, says "Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard (i.e., flag) with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch." A standard is a flag or a banner. Each tribe had a host tribe and the other tribes would line behind their host tribal leader. Each tribe were outstreched toward four directions: North, South, East, and West. Judah was the host leader for the direction of the east. His standard is the Lion (Gen.49:9,10). Reuben is the leader of the South and his banner is the face of a man, because he is the first born. Ephraim is the leader of the West, and his flag is the Ox (Duet.33:17). Dan is the leader of the North, and his standard is the Eagle, because his name means judge. The Lion, the Man, the Ox, and the Eagle are also found in Ezekiel chapter one, and Zechariah 6:1-8; but it's also found in Rev.4:7, which says "And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle." Those faces represent the cardinal points of a compass, north, south, east and west. Agape

WOW! Powerful Story Found on Five Doves sure shocked me. It's called "The most astonishing story I have ever heard"

Dear friends: "This is the most astonishing and intriguing story I have ever heard. It will shock you!" Jim Bramlett http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2011/jim1118.htm In case you are wondering if Tom Fife is a real person, I have discovered a four-part interview with him by Jeff Rense. The parts are at: 1 of 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJty-It1cS0&feature=related 2 of 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSQD_E5cegw 3 of 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL1a5KvHdu8 4 of 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Taxa4vkPd_E&feature=related

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