Pro and Con 1701

Posted 4-10-13

That is nothing like Saturn's northern aurora

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: The Mars-Earth Wars, by Patten and Windsor

I have followed your studies on and off for a number of years, and have marveled at the amount and depth of your scholarship. I just came across this website and wonder if you have read any of these writings by Patten, and if so do you have any thoughts to put to paper?
Respectfully
http://www.creationism.org/patten/PattenMarsEarthWars/index.htm

MY REPLY

Thanks for your kind words. Thanks for the URL. I read 8 chapters in Patten's book, and enjoyed finding out more about Mars. It reminded me of Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision. Velikovsky thought Venus was ejected from Jupiter as a comet, and passed near Earth.

Finally, Patten was getting wilder, so I quit. I don't think Mars ever hit Earth, or even buzzed it once, let alone coming close hundreds of times.

However, he is right about there once being a tenth planet. He called it Astro. The Bible calls it Rahab. It was Satan's home until it was split into pieces. Satan now lives on the asteroid Wormwood (Rev. 8:11). It will hit Earth.

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here (i.e., Babylon)? and whom hast thou here (the False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (i.e., an asteroid)? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

To understand Eze 28: 12-18, I had to first understand Ezekiel's vision in chapter one. That took over seven years, but I finally got it. Once I realized that the sapphire was a symbol of Saturn, Eze 28:12-18 came clear.

Eze 28:12-18 says, "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus (which means rock, i.e., Rahab), and say unto him (Satan), Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering (i.e., surroundings), the sardius (i.e., Mercury), topaz (Venus), and the diamond (Earth), the beryl (Mars), the onyx (Rahab), and the jasper (Jupiter), the sapphire (Saturn), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (i.e., on Saturn); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (i.e., on Rahab). 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God (Saturn): and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (Rahab). 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I BRING FORTH A FIRE FROM THE MIDST OF THEE, it shall devour thee, and I WILL BRING THEE TO ASHES UPON THE EARTH in the sight of all them that behold thee."

Rahab became our Asteroid Belt. I think pieces of Rahab hit both Mars and Earth That big black scar on Mars shows that. One big piece blasted our Moon material out of the Pacific Basin. That's why the Moon is made of the same kind of rocks found on Earth, except volatile ones that would boil off in the blast. That's also why we have the Ring of Fire surrounding the Pacific Ocean. I think some of the water comets that hit our upper atmosphere every day may have originally come from Rahab. Others may come from the Oort Cloud out beyond Neptune. Whatever, the Lord makes sure the atmosphere is moistened, because that is what we need when we breath. For me, it isn't hard to see his hand in everything.

Psa 89:10 is not too hard to understand. It says, "Thou hast broken (daka, beat to pieces, crushed, crumbled) Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain (chalal, pierced, wounded, slain); thou hast scattered thine enemies (i.e., Satan and his fallen angels) with thy strong arm."

Isa_51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., the Son of God, Isa 53:1); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath CUT (chatsab, split) RAHAB, AND WOUNDED THE DRAGON (Satan)?"

The "generations of old" were before Adam. In those days, the angels were tested. Satan and his fallen angels were sentenced to prison. Apparently, Satan appealed the sentence. God is perfect, and he is perfectly just. Man was probably created to prove God was just in sentencing the fallen angels to prison. If man, not being able to see God could still obey him, God would be just in putting Satan and his angels that could see God in prison.

Exo_33:20 says, "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."

Joh_1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared (exegeomai, rehearse, unfold, tell, declare) him."

At the present time, Satan can appear in both Heaven and Earth.

Job 1:6,7 says, "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

These meetings are ongoing.

Job 2:1,2 says, "AGAIN there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

Here is what I think happened when a piece of Rahab hit the Earth.

Gen 1:2 says, "And the earth was (hayah, lit., became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

When Satan's asteroid Wormwood hits Earth, there will be another worldwide disaster, not as bad, but terrible. All walls will fall worldwide (Eze. 38:18-23). The Lake of Fire will be formed. The dead will lay around the Earth. This globe will be turned upside down.

Isa_24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste (balaq, to annihilate, make waste), and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad (puts, to dash in pieces) the inhabitants thereof."

In the KJV, when the Hebrew word for "was" is used, the translation is printed "was". When it is supplied by the translators, it is printed "was" in italics. When it is actually used, it denotes change.

Gen 1:2,3 says, "And the earth was (hayah, i.e., there was a change, so earth became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was (i.e., there was a change) light."

Gen 1:9 says, "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place (i.e., the Pacific Basin), and let the dry land appear: and it was so."

Gen 2:7 says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." His name was Adam, which means red clay, so the "dust of the ground" there must have been red clay.

Patten quoted Job.
"Then Job answered and said, [God] Which removeth the mountains, and they know not, which overturneth them in his anger. Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not: and sealeth up the stars Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Which maketh Arcturus [Mars], Orion [Jupiter] and Pleiades [Saturn] and the chambers of the south [Milky Way]. Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number. Job 19:1, 5-10"

Arcturus is not Mars. Orion is not Jupiter, and the Pleiades are not Saturn. He is not an astronomer, or he would not make that mistake. Later on, he got Pleiades right, but forgot to change this statement. Arcturus and Orion are constellations. The Pleiades is a group of stars sometimes called the seven sisters. Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are planets.

Patten said, "By the consensus of geologists, there have been 170 paleomagnetic polarity reversals recorded in Earth lava flows. A foundation will be laid that each flyby produced a geomagnetic field polarity reversal. Therefore there is some evidence that Mars-Earth flybys repeated, and recurred perhaps 150 to 200 times. There is reason to assume that Mars-Venus flybys were similarly numerous. Therefore there might have been 350 planetary flybys involving Mars all together."

I don't think Mars flew by Earth "perhaps 150 to 200 times." Any rock large enough to blast the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin could cause the Earth to rock back and forth, causing polarity reversals, particularly in the lava flows in the Pacific Ring of Fire and in the bed of the Pacific Ocean. This planet did rock. When Wormwood hits Babylon, Earth will be turned upside down.

I am sure enjoying all the information about Mars. It is more detailed than anything I had read about it.

"By contrast," Patten said, "on the Earth, the Mauna Loa caldera on Hawaii averages only three miles in diameter, and this is the Earth's largest volcano, rising from 20,000 feet below the surface of the Pacific Ocean to 13,700 feet above sea level."

That takes me back to memory lane. Ed and I took a tour around the big island Hawaii. We saw Kilauea, but not Mauna Loa. There are five volcanoes there, but our tour guide only showed us one, and it was only smoking that day.

Patten said, "The Earth has had such a shift in weight, a relocated equatorial bulge. The cause of the Earth's Great African Rift Valley has been a change in distribution of its mass. It was due to a radical relocation of the spin axis, and a consequent radical relocation of the equator, and consequently of its equatorial bulge."

He also said, "The shift of the Earth's equator required an expansion of the new equatorial bulge in a new belt across the Earth's middle. The response of the Earth's crust, like a garment, was to tear. The rip was perpendicular to the new equator. The Great African Rift Valley is that rift, a perpendicular rift caused by this radical (and recent) shift of the equator."

"It is all very simple." he said, "The crust of the Earth tore across the equator, in a perpendicular manner, to accommodate the new, relocated bulge zone. In modern English it is "The Great African Rift Valley." It is the Earth's biggest rift system."

He is wrong on how it happened. Babylon is to be destroyed by the asteroid Wormwood, and Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by an asteroid. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. It rained fire and brimstone from heaven.

Gen_19:28 says, "And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

Deu_29:23 says, "And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the LORD overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath".

Isa_13:19 says, "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."

Jer_50:40 says, "As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein."

Luk_17:29 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all."

2Pe_2:6 says, "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample (i.e., an example) unto those that after should live ungodly"

Patten even quoted this scripture and failed to take it as gospel truth. "The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar. "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; "And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground." Genesis 19:23-25

He said, "The 'death angel' was the triggering agent for this extension to the Great Rift Valley system. Simply put, it was another of the close flybys of Mars."

He also said, "A Mars flyby triggered the event. At that particular occasion, our estimate of the date was October, 1728 B.C.E. and the closest physical distance between the Great African Rift Valley and the Valles Marineris was, for a minute or two, some 35,000 to 40,000 miles."

And, "The crust of Mars has very little flex, or elasticity in contrast to the Earth's crust. Therefore, for Mars, with no crustal elasticity, its primary mechanism was to relieve internal distress through volcanism. This, plus the probability that Mars suffered several hundred Earth and Venus flybys, is why the volcanoes of Mars are so gigantic.

Also, "By the consensus of geologists, there have been 170 paleomagnetic polarity reversals recorded in Earth lava flows. A foundation will be laid that each flyby produced a geomagnetic field polarity reversal. Therefore there is some evidence that Mars-Earth flybys repeated, and recurred perhaps 150 to 200 times. There is reason to assume that Mars-Venus flybys were similarly numerous. Therefore there might have been 350 planetary flybys involving Mars all together."

So, "there have been 170 paleomagnetic polarity reversals recorded in Earth lava flows." That's interesting, I didn't know the number, but I don't think Mars flew by 350 times.

"The dating of the literature by Abraham and Job" Patten said," are testimony as to how repeated they were. A close analysis of chronological dates and flyby scenes can yield a 108-year cyclicism."

Patten also said, "Chapter 5 addresses the seventh clue, those fragments which missed the crust of Mars, and proceeded on into space. Most asteroids went out toward, but not as far as Jupiter's orbit. They became asteroids when in their virgin orbits and they began to orbit the Sun. Those that have been seen number over 5,000. They also are scars in the Solar System of the fragmentation of Astra on the Roche Limit of Mars."

Whether the Roche Limit of Mars had anything to do with the breakup of the planet Rahab, I don't know. The Roche Limit of Earth is 11,000 miles out, but I don't know if that is the same for all planets.

He said, "Most, perhaps 98% of the fragments that missed Mars began to orbit the Sun. It is theorized that the other 1% or 2% found Mars as their"centerpiece." They began to orbit Mars instead of the Sun, and formed an ancient ring system parallel with the Martian equator."

This is the first time I have heard of Mars having a ring system.

Patten: "what caused the fragmentation of the asteroids. In the case of this mystery, the physical geography of the surface of Mars virtually begs to convict the Martian Roche Limit. The red planet has over 90% of its craters on one side."

"Mars today is a neighbor to the asteroid belt. And if our model is correct, it formerly orbited in the asteroid belt - before there was an asteroid belt."

I don't believe that. Rahab occupied that spot.

Patten said, "In this March crossing geometry, celestial mechanics and resonance orbit principles require that Mars always passed by the Earth on the sunward side, except the Final Flyby. As Mars did so, its cometary tail swept across the face of our planet. Visually, this is part of the reason that made the ancient Passover scenes and tubulustrium scenes so spectacular, so memorable, so frightful."

Mars had nothing to do with Passover.

Exo_12:27 says, "It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses."

Patten said, "The cometary tail of Mars was seen and described by the Hebrews in yet another way. Today, angels and cherubs are considered sweet, friendly apparitions, but not then. Angels were messengers of the Lord, and one of them brought death and destruction in its train."

We have to be careful. Angels are not the angel of the Lord. The angel of the Lord is the Son of God. Exo_3:2 says, "And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."

That angel of the Lord was God. Since God the Father cannot be seen by man, the son of God appeared as the angel of the Lord in Old Testament times, and as Jesus in New Testament times.

The son of God was from the beginning. In John 1-3, he was called the Word.

Joh 1:1-3 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

Hebrews 1:1-4 says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 Being made so much better than the angels".

Pro_30:4 says, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (YHWH), and what is his son's name (Jesus), if thou canst tell?"

Patten said, "As Mars approached the Earth in a March flyby geometry, its tail followed it. Mars and its fleece looked like an approaching, onrushing whitish, yellowish, glistening pillar. But after it passed the Earth, its tail appeared more like a cloud, from the rear, with its tail visually engulfing its nucleus. This was the pillar of "fire by night" and the "cloud by day" of the Exodus catastrophe."

No, no! Exo_13:21 says, "And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night".

He said, "The Exodus story features both descriptions. It was during just such a destructive flyby of Mars, a "Passover" (of Mars, the angel of death). A careful reading of Exodus chapter 14 is instructive. The appearance of the cometary tail of Mars shifted from a "pillar of fire" to a "cloud".

Patten said, "The Biblical accounts of catastrophism, interleaved with chronicles, supports alternating torque's for the spin axis of both Mars and the Earth. Kazmann's list of the orientation of the foundations of ancient, Mediterranean region temples suggest the same thing. The spin axis was not secure in that era of Mars-Earth Wars."...

Enough already. I don't believe what he is saying. I searched on Bing for Kazmann without turning up anything like what he is saying. I wonder if he meant Kaufman.

I don't think Dr. Asher Kaufman has discovered the foundation of the Temple in Jerusalem. I will explain what I think about the Temple location, something I have studied a lot.

I THINK THE LOCATION OF THE TEMPLE WAS SOUTH OF THE DOME OF THE ROCK

The Temple Mount Faithful think the Temple was where the Dome of the Rock is now. I think that is wrong. The location of the aqueduct shows that it had to be south of the Dome of the Rock. I think it was over the Kas Fountain in the area where there are trees now, between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

Dr. Asher Kaufman thinks the Temple was north of the Dome of the Rock, over the Dome of the Spirits. I think that is wrong too. Kaufman took some cut stones he found north of the Dome of the Rock to be the foundation of one Temple wall. That doesn't seem likely to me. They are not in a straight line, and there would be no flowing water in that area anyway.

I am convinced that the architect Tuvya Sagiv is right. The Temple was south of the Dome of the Rock. It was built over the Kas Fountain between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. The back wall of the Holy of Holies lined up with the wailing wall.

MY PROOF

The Royal Portico was built along the southern wall of the Temple Mount, not at the southern boundary of the pavement around the Dome of the Rock. There were cloisters built around all four outer walls of the Temple area.

The aqueduct turned south after entering the Temple Mount through the western wall north of the wailing wall, which I think was directly back of the Holy of Holies. The water purification system used a series of cisterns that kept the water flowing downhill. Those cisterns did not begin at the Dome of the Rock. They are south of it. To me they are concrete proof that the Temple was not built over the Dome of the Rock. The Temple floor had to have adequate water flow to wash away blood after the sacrifices were killed.

From the Etam (or Eitam) spring, called "the sealed fountain" south of Bethlehem, water was brought to the Temple by an aqueduct. Etam spring water flowed into Solomon's Pools, then into the aqueduct. Water in the aqueduct was kept flowing constantly by a hundred-foot-deep siphon built in a naturally occurring valley along the way.

http://www.bible-history.com/eastons/P/Pools+of+Solomon/
"Pools of Solomon

the name given to three large open cisterns at Etam, at the head of the Wady Urtas, having an average length of 400 feet by 220 in breadth, and 20 to 30 in depth. These pools derive their chief supply of water from a spring called "the sealed fountain," about 200 yards to the north-west of the upper pool, to which it is conveyed by a large subterranean passage. They are 150 feet distant from each other, and each pool is 20 feet lower than that above it, the conduits being so arranged that the lowest, which is the largest and finest of the three, is filled first, and then in succession the others. It has been estimated that these pools cover in all a space of about 7 acres, and are capable of containing three million gallons of water."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solomon%27s_Pools
"The pools are fed by four different springs; the most prominent is Ein-Atan or Etam at the head of the Wadi Urtas, called "the sealed fountain," about 200 metres (660 ft) to the north-west of the upper pool"

There is no way the Gihon Spring water could have been used at the Temple Mount. It did not have enough head on it. Also, it is a reciprocating spring, an intermittent spring, a karst spring. It does not flow at full speed all the time. It could never be adequate to supply the Temple with running water at all times. Water has to fill up to a certain depth in an underground cave before it will run. Then it gushes. It is not as pure as the water from the Eitam spring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karst_spring
"The properties of karst springs are unsuitable for the supply of drinking water. Their uneven flow rate does not support steady rates of consumption, especially in summer when there is lower discharge but higher demand. In addition, poor filtering and high hardness mean that the water quality is poor. For these reasons, karst springs are nowadays rarely used for drinking water."

The Temple Mount Faithful does not accept what Kaufman and Sagiv say. They dismiss them by saying that neither are archaeologists. I am not an archaeologist either. I sent my findings to them long ago and never received an answer. Maybe that is why. They do not seem to want to discuss it or listen to reason.

Rabbi Zalman Menachem Koren, who wrote "The Courts of the House of G-d," thought the Temple was built over the rock under the Dome of the Rock. I disagree with him too. The rock wouldn't fit in the Holy of Holies, and the cisterns are south of it.

The rock under the Dome of the Rock is 12 by 17 meters, i.e., 39 by 56 feet. This is larger than the size of the Holy of Holies which was 20 by 20 cubits. One cubit is 1.5 feet. So the Holy of Holies was 30 x 30 ft.

To me, it is unreasonable to think the Holy of Holies could have been built over that rock. I don't think the temple was built on stilts to raise it up to where it might fit better either.

One of the reasons given that the Temple could not be south of the Dome of the Rock are that the rock under the Dome of the Rock is the highest bedrock on the Temple Mount. Nothing said that the Holy of Holies had to be built over the highest rock on the Temple Mount.

That rock was originally much higher than it is today. It was in Fort Antonia, not in the Temple area. It was so steep a climb up the rock that they covered it with tiles to make it slick so no one would try to climb it. It was 75 ft. tall. To me, that rules out any possibility that it was in the 20 by 20 by 20 cubit cube called the Holy of Holies.

Josephus was a Pharisee Priest. He had been in the Temple. We should pay attention to what he said about it.

http://templemountlocation.com/fortAntonia.htm
"1. How big was the temple compound and Fort Antonia altogether?
"Josephus says it was "six furlongs, including fort Antonia"!
" With this lower placement of the Temple compound and also the placement of Fort Antonia on the Dome of the Rock platform the measurement all the way round is 6 furlongs just as Josephus said it was.

"Flavius Josephus in 93 C.E. (i.e., in Wars of the Jews) "BOOK 5, CH. 5 Josephus Flavius regarding Tower of Antonia;
"8. Now as to the tower of Antonia, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west, and that on the north; it was erected upon a rock of fifty cubits in height (75 feet high), and was on a great precipice; (steep hill) it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity.

"........but on the corner where it joined to the two cloisters of the temple, it had passages down to them both, through which the guard (for there always lay in this tower a Roman legion) went several ways among the cloisters, with their arms, on the Jewish festivals, in order to watch the people, that they might not there attempt to make any innovations'.

"According to Josephus the Temple compound alone was 4 furlong around, that is approximately 600 X 600, but when Fort Antonia was included in the Temple complex, together it was 6 furlong around. So Fort Antonia was also a square of 600 X 600.'

"Was there a low wall surrounding the Rock creating a platform?
Josephus continues: "In the first place, the rock itself was covered over with smooth pieces of stone, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up or to go down it might not be able to hold his feet upon it....

"Josephus continues: Next to this, and before you come to the edifice of the tower itself, there was a wall three cubits high; (4.5 feet high) but within that wall all the space of the tower of Antonia itself was built upon, to the height of forty cubits (60 feet)."

Another reason the Temple Mount Faithful of our days do not think the Temple was south of the Dome of the Rock is that there are "wells" under the southern location. There are no wells on the Temple site. There are cisterns.

No wonder Moses and Elijah must be sent. Israel can't build the Temple until they know where it stood.

The Temple Mount Faithful think that no other building but the Temple should be on the Temple Mount. That compounds the problem even more. Agape

MY REPLY

Isa 66:22,23 says, "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD."

The new moon of Tishri 1, 5776, is the Day of God's Wrath, Mon. Sept. 14, 2015. The new moon of Nisan 1 will fall on Saturday, the Sabbath, April 9, 2016. It is the day of the Second Advent.

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: "Who is "Babylon", and why is the city called that?"

Jovial (28 March 2013)
thanks to Donna for the research at
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/march2013/donnad327-1.htm . I do believe it is possible that Rome is Babylon, and certainly one of the leading candidates for the city of Rev 17.

Some people say that the name "Babylon" is being used in a "symbolic" sense. We really don't have to go that far. It is quite possible it is being used in a descriptive sense. The word "Babylon" means "confusion", and by calling that city "Babylon", the Scriptures could simply be calling it the city of confusion, with little to no intended link to the ancient city of Babylon.

It is also possible that the ancient city of Babylon is the city of Rev 17. In order for that to happen though, since Daniel points towards Europe as the place of origin by saying the people of the false messiah would destroy the temple, I would suspect the false messiah would likely still rise out of Europe and then move his capital there.

But it also precedes the word "Babylon" with the word "mystery". So it may simply be telling us that this city will use confusion to hide truth. Daniel tells us that truth will be thrown to the ground when the false messiah rises. So that is no surprise. Shalom, Joe

MY REPLY

> > I do believe it is possible that Rome is Babylon, and certainly one of the leading candidates for the city of Rev 17. > > It is also possible that the ancient city of Babylon is the city of Rev 17.

I agree.

I think Vatican City is the city of Rev 17:18 now, but it will be moved to the literal Babylon near the Euphrates River. The mention of the Euphrates and the Chaldeans in other scriptures help us to see through the glass more clearly.

Rev 17:18 says, "And the woman which thou sawest is that great CITY , which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

Rev 17:3 says, "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness (eremos, desert, i.e., Babylon): and I saw a woman (i.e, the MYSTERY RELIGION OF BABYLON) sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (i.e., the dragon, Satan), full of names of blasphemy (PONTIFEX MAXIMUS, VICAR OF CHRIST, etc.), having seven heads (i.e., the 7th head is BABYLON III) and ten horns."

Rev 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

THE 7 EMPIRES

Five have fallen:

1. Babylon I, Literal Tower of Babel started by Nimrod 2. Babylon II, ruled by Nebuchadnezzar 3. Media-Persia, ruled by Cyrus 4. Greece, ruled by Alexander 5. Holy Roman Empire, ruled by the Caesars

One is:

6. The Ecclesiastical Holy Roman Empire, ruled by the Pontifex Maximus

Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

At the time of the First-trump Rapture, one is yet to come:

7. Babylon III, ruled by the False Prophet

Rev 18:2-4 says, "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication (i.e., joining together), and the kings of the earth have committed fornication (i.e., joined) with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, COME OUT OF HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." That is the Last-Trump Rapture.

Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

> > But it also precedes the word "Babylon" with the word "mystery". So it may simply be telling us that this city will use confusion to hide truth.

It is confusion to be sure. The "mystery" suggests Satan's MYSTERY RELIGION OF BABYLON. St. Peter's Basilica is built over the spot where the temple to Cybele, a goddess of the Mystery religion, used to be. As the Magna Mater, MOTHER OF THE GODS, she was represented by a black cube-shaped stone similar to the meteorite that is worshiped by Islam at Mecca. Cybele was often pictured with two lions. That may be why the walls of Babylon were decorated with winged lions.

This Satanic Mystery Religion began at the Tower of Babel with Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz. Semiramis and Tammuz were worshiped as the Madonna and child. Nimrod, and later Tammuz, were worshiped as the Sun-god. Semiramis has different names in other countries, but is essentially the same sun goddess. She and Tammuz were even called Madonna and Child. Satan tried hard to make this worship so outlandish that no one would take notice when the real thing showed up. This shows that Satan knew what was coming. He evidently even knows how much time he has left.

I immediately thought of the Sun god worship when I saw Pope Benedict holding up a monstrance, which looks to me like an emblem of the Sun. I will include a picture of that.

Cybele's face was put on Roman coins. Idols of her were placed in Roman shrines. She was called mother of the gods and queen of heaven.

At times, Israel worshipped ASHTAROTH as the QUEEN OF HEAVEN.

Jdg_2:13 says, "And they forsook the LORD, and served BAAL AND ASHTAROTH."

1Sa_12:10 says, "And they cried unto the LORD, and said, We have sinned, because we have forsaken the LORD, and have served BAALIM and ASHTAROTH: but now deliver us out of the hand of our enemies, and we will serve thee."

Jer_7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the QUEEN OF HEAVEN, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger."

Jer_44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem".

Jer 50:2 Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

Jer_13:4-7 says, " Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to EUPHRATES, and hide it there in a hole of the rock. 5 So I went, and hid it by EUPHRATES, as the LORD commanded me. 6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to EUPHRATES, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there. 7 Then I went to EUPHRATES, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing."

Jer_46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river EUPHRATES."

Isa_46:1 says, "Bel boweth down, Nebo stoopeth, their idols were upon the beasts, and upon the cattle: your carriages were heavy loaden; they are a burden to the weary beast."

The verse I saw a rectangle of light on, Jer 50:2, says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, BABYLON is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

Images mark false religion. And there are plenty of them on the roof of St. Peter's Basilica.

Jer_51:44 says, "And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall."

Isa_47:1 says, "Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate."

Isa_47:5 says, "Sit thou silent, and get thee into darkness, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called, The lady of kingdoms."

Isa_48:14 says, "All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on BABYLON, and his arm shall be on the CHALDEANS."

Isa_48:20 says, "Go ye forth of BABYLON, flee ye from the CHALDEANS, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob."

Jer_21:9 says, "He that abideth in this city shall die by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence: but he that goeth out, and falleth to the Chaldeans that besiege you, he shall live, and his life shall be unto him for a prey."

Jer_22:25 says, "And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans."

Jer_25:12 says, "And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations."

Jer_46:10 says, "For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates."

Jer_50:25 says, "The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans."

Jer_50:35 says, "A sword (i.e., the sword of the Lord) is upon the CHALDEANS, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of BABYLON, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men."

The sword of the Lord is Satan's residence, the asteroid Wormwood. (Rev 8:8-11).

Jer_50:45 says, "Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against BABYLON; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the land of the CHALDEANS: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them."

Jer 50:46 says, "At the noise of the taking of BABYLON the earth is moved (i.e., it will be turned upside down), and the cry is heard among the nations."

Jer_51:4 says, "Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the CHALDEANS, and they that are thrust through in her streets."

Jer_51:54 says, "A sound of a cry cometh from BABYLON, and great destruction from the land of the CHALDEANS".

Jer_52:7 says, "Then the city was broken up, and all the men of war fled, and went forth out of the city by night by the way of the gate between the two walls, which was by the king's garden; (now the CHALDEANS were by the city round about:) and they went by the way of the plain."

Hab_1:6 says, "For, lo, I raise up the CHALDEANS, that bitter and hasty nation, which shall march through the breadth of the land, to possess the dwellingplaces that are not theirs."

Rev_16:12 says, "And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river EUPHRATES; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."

THE SWORD OF THE LORD IS SATAN'S HOME ON THE ASTEROID WORMWOOD THAT WILL HIT BABYLON ON THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, THE DAY OF THE LORD

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Jdg_7:18 says, "When I blow with a trumpet (i.e., it is the Feast of Trumpets, probably Sept. 14, 2015) I and all that are with me, then blow ye the trumpets also on every side of all the camp, and say, The SWORD OF THE LORD, and of Gideon."

Jdg_7:20 says, "And the three companies blew the trumpets, and brake the pitchers, and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The SWORD OF THE LORD, and of Gideon."

1Ch_21:12 says, "Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the SWORD OF THE LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the ANGEL OF THE LORD (i.e., the Son of God) destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me."

Isa_34:6 says, "The SWORD OF THE LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, and with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea."

Jer_12:12 says, "The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the SWORD OF THE LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace."

Jer_47:6 says, "O thou SWORD OF THE LORD, how long will it be ere thou be quiet? put up thyself into thy scabbard, rest, and be still." Agape

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