Pro and Con 1715

Posted 5-6-13

ANOTHER OF GOD'S WONDERS, A CORACIAS SPATULATUS.
THE PICTURE IS LONG BECAUSE HIS TAIL IS LONG

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE:"DELIVERANCE precedes JUDGMENT"

Hello Ryan, I know there will be a rapture because of 1Cor 15 and 1Thess 4. I think you are right that many of the verses used to equal the rapture, are verses of protection and not necessarily the rapture.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. God Bless, John Too

Regarding the message "DELIVERANCE precedes JUDGMENT". I believe God does deliver according to his promises. But what form that deliverance will take. It still amazes me that many use Lot as an example of the rapture. Lot is an example of God delivering but not necessarily of the rapture. God told Lot to remove himself from a city. The closest thing we have to a rapture is the few cases I am aware of where God translated them from one place to another. In many ways I don't know why I bother to argue. If you are not prepared and there is no rapture you will possibly die for lack of knowledge (lack of knowledge regarding the equipment required to survive). I suppose I should just be grateful. Ryan

MY REPLY

IT LOOKS LIKE SATAN IS TO BE KICKED OUT OF HEAVEN AS WE GO UP MID-TRIB

Rev 12:6-9 says, "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE WILL TAKE PLACE MID-TRIB? SIVAN 26, 5773, TUE. JUNE 4, 2013, the date the Battle of MIDWAY began in 1942?"

The way I got that date. The sanctuary is to be cleansed on Nisan 1 (Eze 45:18). I subtracted the 2300 days of Dan 8:13,14 from Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016, which I think is the day of the Second Advent. That placed the beginning of the Tribulation on Dec 22, 2009. Then I added 1260 days to find Mid Trib on June 4, 2013.

June 4 is an important date in history. Six months after Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor, the Battle of Midway (June 4-7, 1942) was the most important naval battle of the Pacific Campaign of WW II. The US Navy decisively defeated the Imperial Japanese Navy attack against Midway Atoll. It has been called the most stunning and decisive blow in the history of naval warfare. Four Japanese aircraft carriers and one heavy cruiser were sunk at a cost of one American aircraft carrier and a destroyer.

I want to take a good look at Rev 12:10-12. It says, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW (arti, just now, this day, this present time) IS COME (ginomai, to cause to be, TO ARISE, BE TAKEN, BE ASSEMBLED, BE ENDED, BE FINISHED, BE MARRIED, BE BROUGHT TO PASS) SALVATION (soteria, RESCUE, DELIVERANCE), and strength (dunamis, miraculous power, mighty wonderful work), and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame (nikao, conquered, got the victory, past tense) him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 THEREFORE REJOICE, YE HEAVENS, AND YE THAT DWELL IN THEM (i.e., the Bride of Christ). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" (i.e., the shortened Great Tribulation).

It looks like the First-Trump Rapture will be Mid-Trib, June 4, 2013.

There are two Raptures. The days of Noah apply to the first Rapture. The days of Lot apply to the last Rapture. In the days of Noah, rain fell. In the days of Lot, fire fell.

There will be two Raptures, one for the wise virgins and one for the foolish virgins, the 144,000 Israelites, and the Great Tribulation saints. The first Rapture is as the days of Noah. The windows of Heaven were opened. Rain fell. The last Rapture is as the days of Lot. Fire fell. Fire and brimstone destroyed Sodom and the cities of the plain. The day of the last Rapture, Satan's asteroid Wormwood will annihilate Babylon near the Euphrates River.

Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

THE TWO DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN

Luk 17:22-27 says, "And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

Luk 17:28-37 says, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. 34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (i.e, the Body of Christ) is (i.e., in Heaven), thither will the eagles (i.e., Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, RAIN FELL

Mat_24:37 says, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Luk 17:26 says, "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man."

IN THE DAYS OF LOT, FIRE FELL

Luk 17:28-30 says, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom IT RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (apokalupto, to take off the cover)."

Jesus will be revealed when the Sign of the Son of Man appears in the sky on the Day of God's Wrath.

THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN

Rev 8:10-11 says, "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star (aster, star, asteroid or meteorite) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood".

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here (i.e., at Babylon), as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (the asteroid Wormwood)? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

BEFORE THE FIRST RAPTURE, THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS LIKENED TO TWO GROUPS, FIVE WISE AND FIVE FOOLISH VIRGINS

Mat 25:1-13 says, "Then shall the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And FIVE OF THEM WERE WISE, AND FIVE WERE FOOLISH. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil (i.e., an extra supply) with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels (i.e., bodies) with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out (sbennumi, going out, being quenched). 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

TWO TRUMPETS FOR THE "CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY"

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., the 24 elders, 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

One trumpet gathers the elders and saints out of every nation at the First-Trump Rapture. Both trumpets gather the whole assembly at the Last-Trump Rapture.

Rev. 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is both the first and the last): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's rings) round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats (lit., thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Rev 4:8-10 says, "... saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

AT THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE OF THE WISE VIRGINS, AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH, THE BODY OF CHRIST WILL BE INCOMPLETE

Mat 24:37 says, "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

The Lord shut the door of the Ark on Cheshvan 17.

17th of Cheshvan, 5774 = Mon, 21 October 2013. Maybe the Rapture will take place then.

Gen 7:11-13 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark".

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Joh 10:14-16 says, "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

AT THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE OF THE FOOLISH VIRGINS, THE 144,000 ISRAELITES, AND THE GREAT TRIBULATION SAINTS, THE BODY OF CHRIST WILL BE COMPLETE

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Luk 17:28-37 says, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom IT RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. :33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. :34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (soma, the body as a sound whole) is (i.e., the BODY OF CHRIST is in Heaven), thither will the eagles (aetos, eagle, from its wind like flight (i.e., the Tribulation saints) be gathered together (sunago, collected, gathered up)."

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE OF THE FOOLISH VIRGINS, THE 144,000 ISRAELITES, AND A GREAT MULTITUDE FROM EVERY NATION

We will inherit immortality, but we will not literally possess it until the whole Body of Christ, including the foolish virgins, will be complete. The Last-Trump Rapture is as the days of Lot. It is on the Day of God's Wrath when the asteroid Wormwood will impact Earth at Babylon turning this globe upside down.

CALLING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN HEAVEN

Mat 24:31 says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other." Those already in Heaven were caught up in the First-Trump Rapture.

Mar 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (i.e., the Rapture of the Tribulation saints) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."

THE LAST TETRAD OF TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSES ON FEAST DAYS THIS CENTURY SEEMS TO MARK THE END TIMES

2014, TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE, Tue. April 15, 2014 (Nisan 15, 5774) FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD
2014, TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE, Wed. October 08, 2014 (Tishri 14, 5775) EVE OF FEAST OF TABERNACLES
2015, TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE, Sat. April 4, 2015 (Nisan 15, 5775) FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD
2015 PARTIAL SOLAR ECLIPSE, Sun. Sept. 13, 2015 (Elul 29, 5775) EVE OF TRUMPETS
2015, possible Last-Trump Rapture, Mon. Sept. 14, 2015 (Tishri 1, 5776) FEAST OF TRUMPETS
2015, Wed. Sept. 23, 2015, (Tishri 10, 5776) DAY OF ATONEMENT, COMING JUBILEE YEAR ANNOUNCED
2015, TOTAL LUNAR ECLIPSE, Mon. September 28, 2015 (Tishri 15, 5776) FEAST OF TABERNACLES
2016, probably the Second Advent, Nisan 1, 5776, Saturday, April 9, 1st day of JUBILEE, REGNAL and SACRED years, on the anniversary of Jesus' Resurrection on April 9, 30 AD (Sun. Nisan 16, 3790)

Isa_60:2 says, "For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee."

Rev 6:12,13 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind."

Mat 24:29-31 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

They shall see the Sign of the Son of Man in Heaven on the Day of God's Wrath, probably Tishri 1, 5776, Mon. Sept. 14, 2015. The Second Advent will probably be the following Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016, the first day of the Jubilee, Regnal and Sacred years.

Eze 39:11-13 says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. 12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. 13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD."

There will be 7 months between Tishri 1, 5776 and Nisan 1, 5776, because 5776 is a Leap Year. To me, this and the fact that 5775 is a Sabbatical year, which has to precede a Jubilee Year, locks in these dates. Agape

Orthodox Christians mark Jerusalem Holy Fire rite

5-4-13
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/orthodox-christians-mark-jerusalem-holy-fire-rite-161916195.html#iRuPxTA

...Believers hold that a divine fire from heaven ignites candles held by the Greek Orthodox patriarch, in an annual rite dating back to the 4th century AD symbolising the resurrection of Christ....

Greek Patriarch Theophilos III made his traditional grand entry at the head of a procession of monks, chanters and dignitaries with red and gold banners bearing icons.

After circling the shrine in the heart of the church three times, he entered along with the Armenian Patriarch what Orthodox, Roman Catholics and many other Christians believe is Jesus's burial site, emerging minutes later with a lit candle.

The holy flame was swiftly passed from candle to candle between ecstatic believers, most of whom had waited for several hours for the ceremony which filled the air with light and smoke....

The Holy Fire was passed outside to the crowds who watched the ceremony on huge screens, and was then taken to nearby Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity, where Jesus is believed to have been born, and also flown out to Orthodox countries.

...this year other Catholics in the Holy Land, including those from Nazareth, decided for the first time to mark Easter this Sunday under the Orthodox calendar, in an act of ecumenical unity.

INCOMING EMAIL

"A Sphinx Older than the Great Sphinx?
http://www.themistsofavalon.net/t3833-gobekli-tepe-sphinx

"Gobekli Tepe is apparently not an isolated phenomenon. Nevali Çori is a site only a few miles away, and it dates to a slightly later period than Göbekli Tepe. The site is now flooded and inaccessible, but T-shaped pillars and carvings (though smaller than at Göbekli Tepe) were found there. At a site known as Kortik Tepe (Korpiktepe), near the Tigris River about 120 miles (193 kilometers) east of Göbekli Tepe, thousands of stone pots and various sculptures wereburied in graves about 11,500 years ago. Vecihi Ozkaya, director of the dig, has been quoted as saying, while pointing to a sculpture depicting an animal half-human, half-lion, "Look at this . . . It's a sphinx, thousands of years before Egypt. Southeastern Turkey, northern Syria-this region saw the wedding night of our civilization."

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