Pro and Con 1734

Posted 7-14-13

AWESOME LIGHTNING WITH TERRESTRIAL GAMMA RAY FLASHES

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: "Marilyn, Patty RP, Laurie, Patty C, Frank and Donna C Reply: ten virgins"

I have enjoyed this discussion about the 10 virgins. It has also made me reevaluate my position considering all that everyone has said. Thanks for all your input.

I still believe the five foolish are NOT Christians, but would like to consider the consequences if they were Christians.

1. If they are Christians as you say, and because they are lukewarm that they are the foolish virgins. They will not be allowed to be raptured and must remain left behind. Only the wise virgins will be raptured. Ok, if this is true then we need to consider what happens to the lukewarm Christians that have already died. Will there be a judgment that will be rendered before the dead in Christ rise? So now only a portion of the dead in Christ will be able to rise up from the dead? How can it be possible for 2 lukewarm Christians - one will be raptured because he has died and the other is left behind because he is alive at Christ’s return? God is just to all!

2. Now we need to consider who the bible says are foolish Christians so that they can also be included in the left behind group. It says in Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Here is a group of Christians that the bible calls foolish. I would suspect that we should also include them. Why are they foolish? It is because they are replacing or adding works to their faith in Christ, being justified by what they do. Since we need to include this group now who would this group be today? Could you say that it is anyone that thinks that they must do the right things to be worthy to be saved/raptured? There is a very fine line between doing the right things because you want to out of gratitude for what Christ has done or to feel like you are worthy! If you are doing good works to feel worthy then I suspect you might find yourself left behind. Christ did not really have a problem with sinners but had a big problem with the self righteous crowd, like the Pharisees. Jim had just posted about "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees". I'm not saying anyone here is in that group but some seem to talk that way!

As you can see there are a lot of loose ends that need to be considered if the foolish virgins are Christians. Let me make it clear that I do not, not, not think the above is true!!! I look forward to your comments. I also look forward to seeing each of you in heaven very soon. Thanks Gino for your wonderful article on Grace. I loved it! I also want to thank Donna for your encouraging reply. A few words can mean a lot! David Blackman

MY REPLY

> > I still believe the five foolish are NOT Christians, but would like to consider the consequences if they were Christians.

I must not have made it clear enough. I will try again.

How could the five foolish virgins be called "virgins" if they were not saved? The way we get into that category is to accept Christ as our own personal Saviour. Our lamps are lit when we are saved.

The foolish virgins have lighted lamps. They just do not have extra oil to keep them burning brightly for a long time. They are already sputtering, threatening to go out. They just have enough to be saved. They need extra Holy Spirit to make it through the hard times that will precede the last Rapture. Those will be the days when they will be tried.

To the Philadelphians, for whom Jesus has no rebuke, Rev 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (hupomone, patient, cheerful, hopeful, endurance), I also will keep thee from (ek, out of) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, a test, a putting to proof by adversity), which shall come upon all the world, to try (peirazo, to test) them that dwell upon the earth."

They will be tested some time between the two Raptures to see if they will take the Mark of the Beast to be able to buy or sell. Here is where they need to know something about what the scriptures say.

Rev 14:9,10 says, "If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb".

The Last-Trump Rapture is on the Day of God's Wrath. Those that worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark, will not be raptured.

At the first Rapture, when Christ comes to get us, we should be shining like bright stars. Our lamps need to be burning brightly.

Dan_12:3 says, "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament (expanse of space); and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

> > the foolish virgins. They will not be allowed to be raptured and must remain left behind. Only the wise virgins will be raptured. Ok, if this is true then we need to consider what happens to the lukewarm Christians that have already died.

> > How can it be possible for 2 lukewarm Christians - one will be raptured because he has died and the other is left behind because he is alive at Christ's return? God is just to all!

Each individual's test is over when they die. Their rewards, or lack of rewards, are already in the books. The last group will not have to die, because they will be caught up on the "last day". They will have had to endure the trial of the Mark of the Beast that the others did not have to face, so it evens out in the end.

Joh_6:39 says, "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Joh_6:40 says, "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Rom 10:9-13 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation....13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Mat_24:30 says, "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." The Sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the sky on the Day of God's Wrath.

Joh_6:44 says, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Joh_6:54 says, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

Joh_11:24 says, "Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

Joh_12:48 says, "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

Of the last day, 1Co 3:11-15 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

The dead in Christ are already in Heaven. To us, they are sleeping, but in Heaven they are awake.

My deceased husband, an 87-year-old wise virgin, was allowed to visit me briefly on April 2, 2012, to show me that he was awake. He had already visited with his family and my family. He knew that there were female angels in Heaven. Therefore, in Heaven, all believers are awake.

I guess the Lord had to take him to heaven (Dec 27, 2012) to be able to pull off that miracle and show me what I needed to know. The saved in heaven are awake. They only seem to us to be sleeping, because they are not with us here on Earth. I asked him how old he was, 30 or 33? He said, "33." We are all going to be as if we were 33. I will like that. We were both at our best at 33. I'm glad I won't stay 84.

It is easy to see that the wise believers, dead or alive, will all participate in the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess 4:13-18.

Rev 4:1 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither".

It is not so easy to see, but it looks like ALL "WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM." That would include all believers that have died, wise or foolish.

However, the foolish believers, dead or alive, will all participate in the Last-Trump Rapture of I Cor. 15:51-54.

ALL ARE CALLED TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM ON THE DAY OF THE LORD, WHICH IS THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH

Heb 12:22-24 says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling".

THOSE ALREADY IN HEAVEN ARE CALLED TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY

Mat 24:29-31 says, " Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

THOSE STILL ON EARTH ARE ALSO CALLED TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN HEAVEN

Mar 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of heaven."

THE TYPE

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM (i.e., both) FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), ALL THE ASSEMBLY SHALL ASSEMBLE themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

Here are the main scriptures that teach us about the two Raptures. See what you think. The dead are mentioned at both.

THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren (believers), concerning them which are asleep (i.e., HAVE DIED, BUT ARE NOW AWAKE IN HEAVEN), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so THEM ALSO WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

I take it to mean that ALL those believers that have died will Jesus bring with him, that ALL the dead in Christ shall rise first.

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE IS ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH

1Co 15:51-54 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and THE DEAD SHALL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

I take it to mean that the dead that shall be raised are those that have died since the first Rapture.

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

> > we need to consider what happens to the lukewarm Christians that have already died.

I think they will come back with Christ, get their resurrection bodies, and be caught up to Heaven at the First-Trump Rapture.

> > Will there be a judgment that will be rendered before the dead in Christ rise?

Everything is written in the Book of Life.

Rev_3:5 says, "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels".

The Judgment Seat of Christ is after the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath. Rewards will be handed out that day. Those in Heaven will get their rewards, good ones. Those on Earth will get their rewards, bad ones.

Rev 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become (present tense) the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall REIGN (future tense) for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (i.e., the Second Advent is still 7 months future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and HAST REIGNED (past tense). 18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, AND THE TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND SHOULDEST DESTROY them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

In the Ark are the two stone tablets. They represent the two asteroids that will impact Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev 8:8-11 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea (i.e., the NE Mediterranean, for Damascus will cease to be a city): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood (meaning bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Isa 22:5,16-19 says, "5 it is a day of trouble...16 What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high (i.e., in the asteroid Wormwood), and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

> > Now we need to consider who the bible says are foolish Christians so that they can also be included in the left behind group. It says in Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Here is a group of Christians that the bible calls foolish. I would suspect that we should also include them. Why are they foolish? It is because they are replacing or adding works to their faith in Christ, being justified by what they do. Since we need to include this group now who would this group be today? Could you say that it is anyone that thinks that they must do the right things to be worthy to be saved/raptured? There is a very fine line between doing the right things because you want to out of gratitude for what Christ has done or to feel like you are worthy! If you are doing good works to feel worthy then I suspect you might find yourself left behind.

Anyone is foolish if they think they can be made perfect by works. The only way we can be counted as perfect is by accepting Christ as our Saviour. We need Him. He is perfect. We are not, no matter how hard we try.

No one was saved by works in the Old Testament. Everyone would be lost if they didn't have Christ in them.

Here is the list of things believers should add to their faith that "by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature" (i.e., get more oil of the Holy Spirit).

2Pe 1:2-11 says, "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious PROMISES: THAT BY THESE YE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, ADD TO YOUR FAITH VIRTUE; and to virtue KNOWLEDGE; 6 And to knowledge TEMPERANCE; and to temperance PATIENCE; and to patience GODLINESS; 7 And to godliness BROTHERLY KINDNESS; and to brotherly kindness CHARITY (agape, God's kind of love). 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

When we accept Christ, our "old sins" are done away with. When we sin after that, we need to confess them to God to have them put under the blood of Christ.

1Jn 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

That is the main lesson the Laodiceans need to learn.

Of the last Rapture, Rev 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

They had to get left behind to learn that lesson. They have to learn the hard way. I hope we can all learn the easy way. Agape

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Bill Griese (13 July 2013) "Reply to David Blackman"

The earliest future Rapture event where the Dead in Christ are raised is the "gathering together of the elect" preceding the Wrath of God and following the Sixth Seal in Rev 6:12-17, which is AFTER the "tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27. The "tribulation of those days" refers to the persecution of the elect by Antichrist and his minions prior to the Sixth Seal. This persecution produces the Martyrs under the Altar in Heaven referred to at the Fifth Seal, Rev 6:9-11. The days of this persecution are cut short per Matt 24:21-22, at the Sixth Seal. The Wrath of God then occurs during the remainder of the 1260 day count and probably a 30 day extension, which several Old Testament verses refer to as the year of God's Wrath (Day of Vengeance, Isaiah 34:8, 61:2, and 63:4). The "gathering together of the elect" is the 2nd Rapture event, and it precedes God's Wrath which begins after the opening of the Seventh Seal. This event is the one that the Parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 25 refers to, in context with the Matthew 24:27-31 Coming. The Five Foolish Virgins are unsaved. "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" Matt 25:12.

There is a PRIOR Rapture event scripture calls the "Open Door" found in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. The purpose of this 1st Rapture event is to escape the "tribulation of those days" for those found worthy to escape. Of the Seven Churches of Revelation 2 and 3, only Philadelphia, Smyrna, and a small remnant at Sardis were found worthy. Smyrna was told they would have tribulation "ten days" per Rev 2:9-10 ("Open Door" timing clue?). The rest were told to REPENT or they will have tribulation (but not the wrath of God). There is nothing about the dead being raised at the "Open Door".

There is a popular American teaching that all born again Christians are Philadelphians, so everybody will be raptured at the earliest rapture event. However, if you look at the scriptures you will see that Philadelphia was a persecuted church. They had little strength left, were faithful and had not denied the Lord's name. Rev 3:8 "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name." and Rev 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." The temptation during the "hour of temptation" (i.e."tribulation of those days") will be to receive the Mark of the Beast to avoid persecution and death. All those who receive the Mark of the Beast will receive the wrath of God per Rev 14:9-11.

I happen to believe that the Laodicean church in Rev 3:14-22 best describes the majority of Christians. They will be left behind at the "Open Door" unless they heed the Lord's warning to REPENT!

Rev 3:14-22 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Luke 21:31-36 "So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and [so] that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always (repenting), that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." YBIC, Bill Griese

MY REPLY

> > The "gathering together of the elect" is the 2nd Rapture event

I'm so glad that you can see that there are two Rapture events.

> > The Five Foolish Virgins are unsaved. "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" Matt 25:12.

Here is some food for thought.

The word translated "know" is eido, which Strong's says means "properly to see".

Do you think this could indicate that their light is not shining brightly enough to be seen at the time of the First-Trump Rapture, and that this is an explanation of why they were not raptured the first time?

We need wisdom and understanding, and it isn't always easy.

Pro 4:7 says, "Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding."

"AS THE STARS"

Dan_12:3 says, "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."

Strong's "G 1492, eido"

"A primary verb; used only in certain past tenses, the others being borrowed from the equivalent, G3700 and G3708; PROPERLY TO SEE (literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know: - be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider, (have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot. Compare G3700."

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&c=25&v=12&t=TR#12
LITERALLY "OIDA" IN THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS

LITERALLY "OIDA" IN THE MORPHOLOGICAL GREEK NEW TESTAMENT

http://www.christianforums.com/t7745813-9/ "(OIDA) - PROPERLY, TO SEE WITH PHYSICAL EYES (CF. Ro 1:11)"

Rom 1:11 says, "For I long to see (G1492, eido) you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established".

G3700, optanomai

"The first a (middle voice) prolonged form of the second (primary) which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternates of G3708; to gaze (that is, with wide open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from G991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and

"from G1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision;

"while G2300, and still more emphatically its intensive G2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and G4648 a watching from a distance): - appear, look, see, shew self."

"G3708, horao

"Properly to stare at (compare G3700), that is, (by implication) to discern clearly (physically or mentally); by extension to attend to; by Hebraism to experience; passively to appear: - behold, perceive, see, take heed."

G3700, optanomai optomai

"The first a (middle voice) prolonged form of the second (primary) which is used for it in certain tenses; and both as alternates of G3708; to gaze (that is, with wide open eyes, as at something remarkable; and thus differing from G991, which denotes simply voluntary observation; and from G1492, which expresses merely mechanical, passive or casual vision; while G2300, and still more emphatically its intensive G2334, signifies an earnest but more continued inspection; and G4648 a watching from a distance): - appear, look, see, shew self."

> > The Five Foolish Virgins are unsaved. "Verily I say unto you, I know you not" Matt 25:12.

I don't know about you, but I think one has to be saved to be classed as a virgin.

It looks like all virgins will be raptured, but all raptured will not be virgins.

Of the 144,000 Israelites, Rev 14:1-5 says,

"And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Who are those that are raptured but are not virgins? many Laodiceans plus a great multitude that are saved during the Great Tribulation.

Rev 7:9,14 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...14...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

> > There is a PRIOR Rapture event scripture calls the "Open Door" found in Revelation chapters 2 and 3. The purpose of this 1st Rapture event is to escape the "tribulation of those days" for those found worthy to escape. Of the Seven Churches of Revelation 2 and 3, only Philadelphia, Smyrna, and a small remnant at Sardis were found worthy. Smyrna was told they would have tribulation "ten days" per Rev 2:9-10 ("Open Door" timing clue?). The rest were told to REPENT or they will have tribulation (but not the wrath of God). There is nothing about the dead being raised at the "Open Door".

> > I happen to believe that the Laodicean church in Rev 3:14-22 best describes the majority of Christians. They will be left behind at the "Open Door" unless they heed the Lord's warning to REPENT!

I John 1:9 takes care of that. It says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Thanks for giving us your ideas. Agape

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