Pro and Con 1743

Posted 8-11-13

ANOTHER OF GOD'S CREATIONS, ANOTHER TYPE OF SILKWORM MOTH, SATURNIIDAE CERATOCAMPINAE

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Gino (8 Aug 2013) "Laurie, Marilyn & Bill: 08.06.13: Who did Stephen see?"

Finally, in response to the other two letter, that I sent, there was yet another thing that used to confuse me.

Which also had caused me to ask the following question:

Who did Stephen see?

What if one may say that Stephen saw the body and throne of the Father and the body and throne of the Son?

Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

The scripture states that Stephen did see two things. Does the scripture state that he saw the Father and the Son? No, it says that he saw: the glory of God and that he saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

The scripture does not say that he "saw God and Jesus standing on the right hand of God".
The scripture does not say that he "saw the Father and Jesus standing on the right hand of the Father".
The scripture does not say that he "saw the glory of God and Jesus standing on the right hand of the glory".
When he saw the glory of God, what did he see?

Ezekiel 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.
27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about.
28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Ezekiel saw two things as well, he saw:

upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it and he saw that: it had brightness round about.

As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD.

The glory of the LORD is mentioned many times throughout the word of God, and sometimes it is spoken of in a fashion similar to that Ezekiel spake.

It is hard to say that the glory of the LORD is the being that he saw, rather than the brightness round about the being on the throne.

It is hard when comparing other scriptures showing that the glory of the LORD can fill the tabernacle or the temple, which is not something that the form of a man does.

Exodus 40:35 And Moses was not able to enter into the tent of the congregation, because the cloud abode thereon, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

I Kings 8:11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.

II Chronicles 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.

II Chronicles 7:2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD'S house.

The glory of the LORD is also mentioned as:

Exodus 24:17 And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Luke 2:9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.

The return of the Lord Jesus Christ is described in terms of the Son coming in the glory of his Father:

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Mark 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Later in the book, Ezekiel sees the glory of the LORD again, but it appears that he always sees it as one with the being; as “the glory of the LORD stood there", and "whereupon he was", and "he called":

Ezekiel 3:23 Then I arose, and went forth into the plain: and, behold, the glory of the LORD stood there, as the glory which I saw by the river of Chebar: and I fell on my face.

Ezekiel 8:4 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.

Ezekiel 9:3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

Ezekiel 10:4 Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD'S glory.

Ezekiel 43:2 And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east: and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory.
4 And the glory of the LORD came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.
5 So the spirit took me up, and brought me into the inner court; and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house.

Ezekiel 44:4 Then brought he me the way of the north gate before the house: and I looked, and, behold, the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD: and I fell upon my face.

Could it be that when one sees God that:

The being he sees is like the form of only one man, not two or three.

That the form he sees is the Son.

That there is a brightness round about this form like a man.

That the brightness round about and the form like a man are one.

II Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

So Stephen saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.

It would appear that Stephen saw the brightness and the Son, the same as Ezekiel saw, and the same as John saw.

Yet, one may say that Stephen saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God, therefore he had to see God to know that Jesus was standing on his right hand side.

First, Jesus is God, as shown in:

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

Second, Stephen was not calling on God on the left and Jesus on the right, he called upon Jesus as God.

Yet one may say that Jesus standing on the right hand of God, means the Father (called God) on the left,

and the Son (called Jesus) standing on the Father's right hand - the form of two men, the one on the left and the other on the right -

and that it must be taken "literally" and "letterally" to mean the location to the right of.

Not to sound blasphemous, God forbid, but the words Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

taken "literally" and "letterally" would mean that the foot or feet of Jesus were on top of the right hand of the Father -

which is an abomination to think of, let alone write of - so care must be taken when it is insisted that these words must be taken "physically".

MY REPLY

> > Who did Stephen see?

Here are some more scriptures to consider.

Joh_5:37 says, "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape."

1Jn_4:12 says, "No man hath seen God at any time."

Isa 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts); and beside me there is no God."

2Sa_6:2 And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims" i.e., Jesus, the LORD of hosts, now dwells on Saturn, between the cherubims Jupiter and Uranus.

> > Could it be that when one sees God that:
> > The being he sees is like the form of only one man, not two or three.
> > That the form he sees is the Son.

Yes. Even in New Jerusalem, we will see God in the face of Jesus. We were created not being able to see God, probably to prove a point to Satan. If man, made a little lower than the angels, and not being able to see God, could still obey him, God would be proved just in consigning the fallen angels to prison. They could see God and disobeyed.

Rev_3:12 says, "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

Rev_21:2 says, "And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. "

Rev 22:1-5 says, "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne (singular, one throne) of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne (one throne) of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him (one person): 4 And they shall see his face (one face, i.e., we will see God in the face of Jesus, the Lamb of God); and his name (one name) shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever." Agape

A POST ON FIVE DOVES RE: Marilyn Agee (6 Aug 2013) "Patti C (4 Aug 2013) "SATURN AND THE STAR OF DAVID"

Patty RP (6 Aug 2013)
"'Helena Blavatsky' was of the devil"

Patti C (8 Aug 2013) "TO MARILYN AGEE AND PATTY RP / SATURN"

Marilyn Agee (6 Aug 2013) "Patti C (4 Aug 2013) "SATURN AND THE STAR OF DAVID"

Patty RP (6 Aug 2013) "'Helena Blavatsky' was of the devil"

Hello Ladies,

I am writing to you both in one letter, as it seems you are on the same page with how you viewed my post, and on other issues as well. First of all, I am just amazed by your responses to my post!! It is as if you did not grasp the concept at all. I chose that web site because it had the most extensive study and excellent pictures to back up the claim that the whole world is worshiping Saturn, whether they know it or not.

Besides that, where does one go to find out about the occult but to the occult...I was not going there to join it, nor to expound the wonders of worshiping Saturn, but just the opposite, TO EXPOSE IT!!! Know your enemy is wise way to fight any battle. Granted the advertising on the site was very new age, but I was hoping readers would focus on what was being exposed and not on the side lines.

I did try to look at Christian web sites to gather the information, but guess what?, they all had used the information from the one I quoted from!! There was no getting around it.

No disrespect to either of you, but I think you threw the baby out with the bathwater! Did you not comprehend what I was trying to expose, how the worship of the planet Saturn is pagan and has been happening since the beginning of time. Especially how it is being used in this modern world. You twisted what I was exposing into something I was endorsing... and that could not be further from the truth!!!

Marilyn: Imagine talking to a new ager and telling them these things, and I quote you here:

"We are not to make images, or figures, to worship them, or worship the "HOST OF HEAVEN", not even the planet where Jesus has his throne, Saturn.

and "SATURN IS OUR THIRD HEAVEN PAUL WAS CAUGHT UP TO"

Wow! That new ager would be thrilled!! And most likely say to themselves "Hey, Saturn worship is okay cause that is where Jesus has His Throne!" That kind of misinformation can be damaging. I know you are not worshiping Saturn, but by saying such things, without complete and total biblical proof, just plays into the occult theme.

The whole purpose of my letter was to warn about how all encompassing Saturn worship has become and how the Lord warns against it!!

The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia says, "CHIUN (2) ki'-un (Amos 5:26 the King James Version): Called in Acts 7:43 "Rephan" (Rhemphan) the planet Saturn.

Amos 5:26-27 'But ye have born the tabernacle of your Moloch, and Chiun (Remphan) your images, the STAR OF YOUR GOD, which ye made to yourselves. Therefore, will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus, saith the Lord…' "

The Lord is very angry here about His people worshiping images that are of "THE STAR OF YOUR GOD", meaning Saturn. If the throne of Jesus is truly on this planet as you say, would God call it the star of YOUR GOD?

I have to admit that I am offended by these comments about Saturn having anything to do with Jesus, or God, and there is no amount of scriptures you can quote, or try to make fit. I will never, ever, be convinced. Just because you cannot convince me does not mean that you can assume that I am wrong in wanting to expose these pagan things that the modern world is doing, and without even knowing about it.

At this point, let us agree to disagree. I feel you did not understand what I was trying to do, and that is okay, I just hope others did understand and maybe some new truths about what is happening in these end days were revealed to them.

Patty: One quote by the mother of the New Age and you take that to mean that I was somehow encouraging people to look into what she had to say or thought....it was just an example of how the occult sees the planet of Saturn. Of course I know that she was a devil worshiper...who doesn't? That was not the point, and it is as if you misunderstood that on purpose just so you could say negative things about what I posted, just like so many other times. Not liking someone is no excuse for trying to berate their writing, or twist what they are trying to say. Don't shoot the messenger!!

############

I am surprised that neither one of you said anything about the Star of David, of which there was much more presented in that article than on Saturn. I guess I should not be surprised as you both to agree that Jesus has His throne there and that is where the 3rd heaven is...how dare I be offended by such a thing, but I am. I promise this will be the last post to either of you, as I rather like the position of staying away from controversy, I would much rather encourage than disagree, and usually I take a lot of flak and do not say anything, but this time I just had to say something.

God bless you both! In the spirit of Christian love, Patti C.

MY REPLY

> > I am surprised that neither one of you said anything about the Star of David, of which there was much more presented in that article than on Saturn.

I don't know a lot about the Star of David, other than that the Masons use a similar star. The Masons also pretend to go by the Bible. Dad had a Bible with the Masonic emblem on it. However, when they get to the 33rd degree, the Masons find out that they are worshipping Lucifer. I don't throw out the Bible because someone uses it to fool people. I'm glad Dad got out of the Masonic Lodge about as quick as he got in. He and Mom were strong believers in Christ. Thank God I was raised in a family that went to church. I was baptized by sprinkling in the Methodist Church. Later, after I was married, I was baptized by immersion when I joined the Baptist Church. I wanted to be baptized like Christ was baptized.

I can show you the scriptures that reveal that Saturn is the literal star of our God, the location of Jesus' throne. This is my area of expertise.

It took me over 7 years to figure this out. After reading books in the Seminary Collection at BIOLA's La Mirada, CA, campus for 7 years without finding anyone who knew what the cherubim of Gen 3:24 and Eze. 1 and 10 stood for, I put my hands on my open Bible and practically in tears said, "Lord, you're going to have to show me." From that time on, I studied mainly from the Bible and Strong's Concordance. Finally, it came clear. What does Scripture say?

THE FOUR CHERUBIM OF EZEKIEL 1 ARE THE TERRESTRIAL PLANETS, MERCURY, VENUS, EARTH AND MARS

Eze 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (i.e., lively flying things), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces."

Earth is a globe, so it faces all four directions at once. It also orbits around the four directions.

THE CHARIOT OF THE CHERUBIM REPRESENTS SATURN, HEAVEN

1Ch_28:18 "gold for the pattern of the chariot of the cherubims, that spread out their wings, and covered the ark of the covenant of the LORD."

THE CURTAIN THAT COVERED THE TABERNACLE REPRESENTED THE TEN ORIGINAL CHERUBIM, MERCURY, VENUS, EARTH, MARS, RAHAB (NOW OUR ASTEROID BELT), JUPITER, SATURN, URANUS, NEPTUNE AND PLUTO

Exo_26:1 says, "Moreover thou shalt make the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twined linen, and blue, and purple, and scarlet: with CHERUBIMS of cunning work shalt thou make them."

When the priests went into the Holy Place and looked up, they saw cherubim.

GOD "STRETCHEST OUT THE HEAVENS LIKE A CURTAIN"

Psa 104:1,2 says, "Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. 2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain".

THE LORD DWELLS BETWEEN THE CHERUBIMS

Isa_37:16 says, "O LORD of hosts (Jesus, Isa 44:6), God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth."

1Sa_4:4 says, "So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from thence the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth between the cherubims" (i.e., on Saturn, between Jupiter and Uranus).

SATAN ALSO DWELLS BETWEEN THE CHERUBIMS

Eze_10:2 says, "And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels (orbits), even under the cherub (Satan), and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims (between Mars and Jupiter), and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight."

THERE IS A RAINBOW AROUND THE THRONE OF JESUS/GOD

Rev. 4:3 says, "there was a RAINBOW round about the throne".

Which planet has rainbow-like rings around it? Saturn.

THIS IS THE THRONE OF JESUS, THE FIRST AND THE LAST

Rev 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter (i.e., after the First-Trump Rapture). 2 And immediately I was (ginomai, lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the first and the last): and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats (thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

THE PAVEMENT UNDER GOD'S FEET AT MT. SINAI WAS "SAPPHIRE"

Exo_24:10 says, "And they saw THE GOD OF ISRAEL (i.e., Jesus): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE stone, and as it were (i.e., as if it were) the body of heaven (i.e., the HEAVENLY BODY) in his clearness."

IN EZEKIEL'S VISIONS, THE THRONE OF JESUS, THE ONLY GOD/MAN, HAS THE APPEARANCE OF A SAPPHIRE

A sapphire comes in several colors, according to what happens to be mixed with corundum.

Eze 1:1, 26-28 says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of GOD.... And above the firmament (i.e., expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets, of which Earth is one, Eze 1:15) was the likeness of a THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (the only God/man is Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of AMBER, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and IT HAD BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT. 28 As the appearance of THE BOW THAT IS IN THE CLOUD IN THE DAY OF RAIN, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This (i.e., SATURN'S RING SYSTEM) was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).

Sinai is probably derived from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn.

PAUL WAS CAUGHT UP TO PARADISE, THE THIRD HEAVEN, 1. MARS, 2. JUPITER, AND 3. SATURN

2Co 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man in Christ (Paul himself, he didn't want to boast) above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

We are to worship Jesus, not the planet where his throne is located. Because Saturn is where Jesus' throne is located, Satan has tried hard to get people to worship Saturn as a pagan god. Pay no attention to him.

WHAT IS THE SWORD THAT TURNS IN ALL DIRECTIONS IN GENESIS 3:24?

Gen 3:24 says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims (i.e., planets), and a flaming sword (Satan's asteroid Wormwood) which turned every way (i.e., rotated and orbited), to keep the way of (or to) the tree of life" (which is on Saturn).

> > Marilyn: Imagine talking to a new ager and telling them these things, and I quote you here:

> > "We are not to make images, or figures, to worship them, or worship the "HOST OF HEAVEN", not even the planet where Jesus has his throne, Saturn.

> > and "SATURN IS OUR THIRD HEAVEN PAUL WAS CAUGHT UP TO"

Wow! That new ager would be thrilled!! And most likely say to themselves "Hey, Saturn worship is okay cause that is where Jesus has His Throne!" That kind of misinformation can be damaging. I know you are not worshiping Saturn, but by saying such things, without complete and total biblical proof, just plays into the occult theme.

I thought I gave you Biblical proof. I hope I did a better job this time. Agape

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