Pro and Con 1745

Posted 8-18-13

ANOTHER OF GOD' WONDERS, A DIFFERENT KIND OF SEA PEN


Aug 14, 2013 - A New star, called Nova Del 2013, erupted in the constellation Delphinius.

It could be a sign. There was a Super Nova before Jesus was born. Maybe this Nova is meant to happen just a bit ahead of the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

THE SIGN OF 5 BC THAT PRECEDED JESUS' BIRTH

In February, there was a NOVA, a NEW STAR, IN CAPRICORN. It appeared in the east several hours before sunrise. This could have been the star that caused the wise men to travel to Jerusalem.

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Gino (15 Aug 2013) "Laurie, Marilyn & Bill: How Many Thrones does the LORD sit on, in Heaven?"

Laurie, Marilyn & Bill,

You had mentioned both the throne in heaven & the throne (of David) on the earth that Jesus will sit upon.

I wanted to refer only to the throne in heaven, here.

I've seen various paintings that people have made, some with one being on one throne; some with an older being on one throne, with a younger being on a separate throne, with a bird flying above the two thrones, and some with three beings sitting on three separate thrones.

That used to confuse me greatly, causing me to ask the following question:

How Many Thrones does the LORD sit on, in Heaven?

The LORD in heaven sits upon only one throne, and has always sat upon one throne.

Yet there are many who do not believe this, and for centuries believed that he sits on two or three thrones.

So the question is how many thrones does God sit on, one, two, or three? Does the LORD in the form of three men sit upon three thrones?

Does the LORD in the form of an old man, and a young man sit on two thrones with the form of a dove flying over them both?

Does the LORD as three persons in one being, sit as one being, upon one throne? The answer must be in the scriptures.

When Jehoshaphat and Ahab were about to go out to battle with the Syrians, Micaiah was called upon to prophesy:

I Kings 22:19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

Micaiah saw the LORD sitting on his throne, not thrones.

If the Father sits on his own throne with the Son on a second throne to the right of the Father’s throne, what did Micaiah see?

Did he see the Father sitting upon his throne? If so, where was the Son with his throne?

On the right hand of the throne that Micaiah saw, were the hosts of heaven standing, as they did on the left of the throne.

Only a Jehovah Witness would dare say that the Son was only one of the host of heaven, on the right side, rather than the left.

If there are two thrones, and Micaiah saw the throne of the Son, where was the throne of the Father.

No, Micaiah saw three persons upon the one throne, but only the Son is visible, being in the form of God - and in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

What did Isaiah see, when he saw God?

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

Micaiah saw the LORD sitting on his throne, Isaiah saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, did one see the Father (the LORD) and the other see the Son (the Lord)? as in:

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

That would sound interesting, but it would mean that Micaiah saw the Father with the Son missing, and Isaiah saw the Son with the Father missing.

Again, Isaiah saw only one throne, not two or three, and if there must be more than one throne, only one could be seen that day.

One would ask why the seraphims cried Holy, holy, holy, if there were not three persons on three thrones?

Well, the LORD is three persons, but Isaiah saw only one being upon one throne - and the testimony of the seraphims was that this one being was holy, holy, holy - the three persons in one being.

Again, only the Son is visible, as he is the express image of the person of the Father.

Sadly, many years ago, Origen in his commentary on Isaiah 6, in his attempt to see three forms of three separate persons, said that one of the seraphims was Christ and the other was the Spirit.

This was the birth of "tri-theism", this was the woman hiding leaven in three measures of meal.

(Matthew 13:33 The three measures of meal are mentioned three times:

twice in the two accounts of this parable, and the first mention in Genesis 18:6, where the three measures of meal are shown to be for the three men who came to Abraham, the LORD and two angels.

The leaven is the false doctrine of the three separate beings - with the being of the Son as an angel, an archangel, or a seraphim.

The woman is the whore of Revelation 17. "Hid" is in making "tri-theism" a mystery doctrine of the whore.

"Till the whole was leavened" is that at the end of the church age, the whole body has been filled with the leaven of "tri-theism".)

In the book of Revelation is where the three persons in one being, sitting on one throne, is finally cleared up. Jesus Christ the Son of God is revealed to be the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

This is the same one as in:

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

The one speaking in line 11 is described in line 13:

Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

And says:

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Then he said that he, the Son, set down in the same throne with the Father.

Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

The Son is in the Father's throne, not in another one next to it. Then John saw only one throne:

Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

It was a throne that he saw, and only one sat on the throne. The four beasts say the same thing to him that sat on the throne, as the seraphims did to him that sat on the throne:

Revelation 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

The Holy, holy, holy, is for the three persons in the one being, on the one throne. Here the one on the throne is called the Almighty, as the Son was in Revelation 1:8.

Here about the "one on the throne" is said which was, and is, and is to come, as with the Son, which is, and which was, and which is to come, in Revelation 1:8.

Now there are many same things said of him that sat on the throne in chapter 4, that are said of the Lamb in chapter 5.

This is because he is the same one being. Both to him that sat on the throne and to the Lamb are given glory, and honour, and power:

Revelation 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Revelation 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

It is said to him that sat on the throne "Thou art worthy", and to the Lamb "Thou art worthy".

Revelation 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Revelation 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and they fall down before the Lamb:

Revelation 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

This is because it is speaking of the same one being, which is three persons in that one being, upon the one throne:

Revelation 5:14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

It says that they fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever, not them that live for ever and ever.

This is because no one calls the LORD them, but him, even though he calls himself "we" or "us".

It is beginning to be seen, that the one that sat upon the throne and the Lamb are to be taken together, as the Lord Jesus is both God and man at the same time, as God is Father, Son, and Holy Ghost:

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This is even seen more in chapter 7:

Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

That God that sat on the throne and the Lamb are the same being is seen again in chapter 15, together called thy, and the Almighty.

And that "thou only art holy", is this speaking of him that sat on the throne, or the Lamb? Is one holy and the other is not?

No, it is the Son who is on the throne, and the Son who is the Lamb, and the Son is the same being as the Father and Holy Ghost - the Lord is holy.

Revelation 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. 4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

So who is it that sat on the throne? It is the Lord, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost - three persons in one being, on the one throne.

Yet, only the Son is seen on the throne, and this is shown in chapter 20:

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The one who sat on the one throne is said to be God, and is clearly the Son, because he judges:

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The one throne is called the throne of God and of the Lamb:

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

It is only one throne with one being upon it (Revelation 4:2). In saying the throne of God and of the Lamb , it is saying that the one being is both God and Lamb.

The Son is God and man at the same time - the Son of God is here seen as God on the throne and as man, as the Lamb.

The Father and the Holy Ghost are only seen as the Son which is visible, as Jesus said:

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Colossians 2: 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

The fulness of the Godhead, all three persons, are there in the one body on the throne, with only one face:

Revelation 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

As seen in Revelation 1:8, 11, 17, it is the Son who is revealed as Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end:

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Also, it is the Son that gives to drink of the water of life:

John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The Son is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the Son is he that gives to drink of the water of life - who is on the one throne?

Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

He that sat on the throne is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

He that sat on the throne will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

This is the Son on the throne, yet it says I will be his God. The Son is God.

Yet even more interesting, this one being, on this one throne, who is shown to be the Son says to him that overcometh, I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

This is the Father on the throne, yet it is the Son on the throne.

The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one, on the one throne, as one being in one body:

I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Colossians 2: 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

MY REPLY

> > "How Many Thrones does the LORD sit on, in Heaven?"

One, on Saturn.

Eze 1:1 says, "I saw visions of God...

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their (i.e., the terrestrial planets') heads (Earth is one, v. 15) was the likeness of A THRONE, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear, Webster's Collegiate Dictionary): and upon the likeness of the throne (i.e., one throne) was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus is the only God/man there is) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (sapphire comes in amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness (i.e., Saturn's ring system) round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD".

The terrestrial planets are full orbs, globes, and they fly around the Sun in concentric orbits, referred to as wheels within wheels.

Eze 10:1 says, "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims (i.e., terrestrial planets) there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of A THRONE."

Eze 10:9,10 says, "And when I looked, behold the four wheels (orbits) by the cherubims, one wheel by one cherub, and another wheel by another cherub: and the appearance of the wheels was as the colour of a beryl stone. 10 And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel."

Eze 10:20 says, "This is the living (lively) creature that I saw under the God of Israel by the river of Chebar; and I knew that they were the cherubims."

Rev 4:2,3 says, "And immediately I was (ginomai, lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, A THRONE was set IN HEAVEN, and ONE SAT ON THE THRONE. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate; i.e., Jesus/God is both the first and the last): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's rings) round about THE THRONE, in sight like unto an emerald" (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah).

In Mt 28:19, Jesus said, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

As you quoted, Colossians 2: 9 says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

R.B. Thieme taught that in the Angelic Conflict, the angels, who could see God, were judged, then Satan appealed the case of the fallen angels. Therefore, God created man not being able to see God. If he could still obey God, the Lord would be proved just in consigning the fallen angels to prison.

That is why 1Jn_4:12 says, "No man hath seen God at any time." Angels can see God, but man cannot.

Joh_1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." Even in Heaven, we will see God in the face of Jesus.

Rev_22:3 says, "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne (singular, one throne) of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him" (singular, one person).

Isa 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (his redeemer the YHWH of hosts); and beside me there is no God."

Isa 44:8 says, "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

Joh_10:30 says, "I and my Father are one."

Joh_14:9 says, "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Exo_33:20 says, "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live."

Therefore, John could not see God's face. The symbols tell the story. Jesus/God sits on the throne in Heaven after the First-Trump Rapture.

Rev 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter (i.e., after the Rapture). 2 And immediately I was (ginomai, became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (singular) sat on the throne. 3 And he (singular) that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the first and the last): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's rings) round about the throne (on Saturn), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

In Rev_1:11, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Rev_1:17 says, "And when I (John) saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last".

Rev_2:8 says, "And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive".

Rev_22:13 says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."

> > Sadly, many years ago, Origen in his commentary on Isaiah 6, in his attempt to see three forms of three separate persons, said that one of the seraphims was Christ and the other was the Spirit.

To me, the seraphim are created things, flying, rotating, orbiting planets similar to the cherubim. Their concentric orbits around the Sun are also like wheels within wheels.

Eze 1:15 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (i.e., lively flying creations), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces." Earth is a flying globe. It faces 4 directions at the same time. It orbits in 4 directions.

Cherubim: Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars.

Cherubim or Seraphim (meaning burning): Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune

"Jupiter is still slowly contracting after formation, Jupiter was at least twice the size it is now, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune all give off more heat than they receive.... Jupiter actually radiates, mostly in the infrared, nearly twice as much power as it receives from the Sun. Saturn, although generating about half as much total power as Jupiter, has only 30% of its mass. So it produces nearly twice the energy per unit mass than Jupiter! Uranus and Neptune also produce excess energy but much less in total than the larger planets. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090413143126AAltebF

According to Josephus, the lamps on the lampstand represent Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. (Ant. III. VI. 7)

2Co_12:2 says, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."

Paul was caught up to Saturn, Earth's third heaven, 1. Mars, 2. Jupiter and 3. Saturn.

2Sa_6:2 says, "And David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of God, whose name is called by the name of the LORD of hosts that dwelleth between the cherubims."

The LORD of hosts dwells on Saturn, between Jupiter and Uranus.

Eze 1:1 says, "the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of God."

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (the only God/man is Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber (sapphire can be amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's ring system). 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD".

Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear (Webster's Collegiate Dictionary). The sapphire September birthstone means heaven. That is appropriate, because Jesus was born in September.

Eze 10:1-2 says, "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament (expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims (terrestrial planets) there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne (i.e., on Saturn). 2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub (i.e., Satan, who lives on the asteroid Wormwood, Rev 8:11), and fill thine hand with coals of fire from (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood) between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in my sight."

I agree with you on the following:

> > The Father and the Holy Ghost are only seen as the Son which is visible...

> > Colossians 2: 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

> > The Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one, on the one throne, as one being in one body:

> > I John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Agape

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