Pro and Con 1774

Posted 12-31-13

GOD MADE AGATE BEAUTIFUL

INCOMING EMAIL

What a superb job you did, Marilyn, explaining the book of Revelation! I applaud the clarity of your approach.

I have a special appreciation of your work because the book of Revelation is where I entered serious study of the Word.

I was a senior in college when I was taken to a Bible study taught by May Bentley, the wife of a federal judge who was once offered any position she wanted at Moody Bible. She was a brilliant woman who took me under her wing and I spent time with her one on one, two or three times a week while she personally poured her knowledge into me. She was 70 at the time. I had a deep love of prophecy as a result.

She likened Revelation to differing accounts of WWII. There was the description of the air battle, the land assaults and the sea battle when soldiers talked of WWII but it was all part of THE battle. This was in the mid sixties when that war was still fresh.

God knew what He was doing in my life. I had accepted the Lord in a Youth for Christ meeting at 16. Scales fell from my eyes just as they did from Saul's. I saw my family and my friends going over a spiritual Niagara Falls and I cried for three days. The Lord let me see what broke HIS heart. A close friend turned me aside and said, "Look, I am just as good a Christian as you are, and you don't need all of this." She has since denied her faith.

I went to what I thought was a Christian university but I was the only person literally in the chapel day after day. Then God placed a Christian man in my life and we celebrated fifty years of marriage this year.

God also allowed me the privilege of seeing a couple of thousand people come into His kingdom as I was allowed three pioneering ministries; first founding a Bible Study Fellowship class, then being on the pastoral staff of a major metropolitan Bible Church and finally as Executive Director of Portland Metropolitan Crisis Pregnancy Resource Centers. I personally shared the Lord with about 600 girls and women to give them a basis upon which to choose life for their unborn babies. My oldest daughter also counseled in the center during her college years and had women come back and thank her many years later.

Now, I am writing a book and Bible study after suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for 20 years. I pray that God uses it for His purposes, but I strongly suspect that we will be out of here (raptured) before a publisher ever sees it.

But you, Marilyn, gave the clearest summary of the book of Revelation that I have ever read. Kudos to you, my friend. Ps. 20 applies to both you and John, as we await the Bema Bench of reward! Soon and very soon

MY REPLY

> > But you, Marilyn, gave the clearest summary of the book of Revelation that I have ever read. Kudos to you, my friend. Ps. 20 applies to both you and John, as we await the Bema Bench of reward!

Wow! thanks. You made my day. Agape

HER REPLY

I'm so glad, Marilyn. I will be in the front row applauding, when you are at the bema bench. You remind me of the woman who mentored me that I mentioned in my post. A keen mind and a willing spirit. Blessings

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Fwd: Austin-Sparks.Net - Open Windows 24 December

Fwd: Austin-Sparks.Net - Open Windows 24 December

The gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11,12 NIV)

I wonder what Paul would think... were he to come back today and look over the literature of the past many centuries upon his letters, the systems of truth, of doctrine, the wonderful organizations men have made of the things which he said in a moment of inspiration and need - I wonder what he would say. I think he would look at it with blank amazement, and say, "Well, that ever they could have made that out of what I said! That ever that could have resulted!" I am not sure that he would recognize his own teaching. I am quite sure that he would be very doubtful as to whether it was the right outworking of what he said. I simply raise that as a question, and yet include it as something upon which to reflect. Does not a systematizing of truth result in limitation, in a setness which breathes death? The New Testament themes are far, far too big for our molds. You cannot systematize the Cross of the Lord Jesus, you can only go on your knees and worship, conscious that you see something really far beyond your power to compass. But immediately you have boxed it in a system of truth, you have reduced it from its divine and eternal dimensions, and robbed it of its power, and brought it into a realm of death in that measure. The Person of Christ, the resurrection of Christ - take any one of the great themes of the New Testament - when you have so wonderfully brought together all the fragments and organized them, and put them into a manual, a textbook, you have killed the thing....
By T. Austin-Sparks from: The Risen Lord and the Things Which Cannot be Shaken - Chapter 1

MY REPLY

> > "You cannot systematize the Cross of the Lord Jesus, you can only go on your knees and worship, conscious that you see something really far beyond your power to compass. But immediately you have boxed it in a system of truth, you have reduced it from its divine and eternal dimensions, and robbed it of its power, and brought it into a realm of death in that measure. The Person of Christ, the resurrection of Christ - take any one of the great themes of the New Testament - when you have so wonderfully brought together all the fragments and organized them, and put them into a manual, a textbook, you have killed the thing" (Austin-Sparks).

I understand that you are just forwarding the writings of Austin-Sparks, but that is not true, and I think you know it. You just probably didn't catch this. It would discourage Bible study.

I write as I study. I put like things together. I can understand more this way than just letting statements float around in my head unconnected. I continually try to fit one more piece into the puzzle we are working on, and I feel sure that the Lord means for us to study his Word as much and as deeply as possible. I make lists. Categorizing things helps me understand more than not trying to fit like things together.

My dad was a teacher before war broke out. He taught me to outline to study. I found that good advice, but left off the A, B, C, 1, 2, 3 business. Just writing it down did the trick without stopping to think about the ABCs. Underlining with a colored pencil helps me find what I am looking for fast, both in my lists and in books.

Some people learn best by seeing, reading, hearing or writing. I learn best by reading and writing. What I hear may escape my memory before I can fit it into the pattern of what I already know. I have to listen to other things without being able to stop and think deeply about what was already said. On videos, I can stop, start, and rerun sections. That works better than listening to a speech I cannot stop to think. If I stopped to think, I would miss something, and by the end, I might forget something I could have fitted into the puzzle. I want to wring out as much information as possible, so I prefer reading and taking notes. Agape

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Marilyn Agee & the tremendous door opening in heaven & the 2 raptures---????"

From: Rene (20 Dec 2013)

Marilyn, thanks for your kind comments. Actually, there are 7 raptures in the Bible:
Enoch
Elijah
Paul the apostle
John in Revelation 4
the Church
the 2 witnesses
The 144,000

Jesus ascended to heaven on his own power, so I don't count that as a rapture. There are several resurrections in the Bible. I didn't count those as "raptures". Rene

MY REPLY

> > the 2 raptures---????

I think there are two Raptures yet to come. There are two "COME UP HITHER"s in Revelation, one in 4:1 and the other in 11:12. There are wise virgins and foolish virgins.

THE OPEN DOOR IS SET BEFORE THE PHILADELPHIAN (BROTHERLY LOVE) CHURCH

Rev 3:7-10 says, "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; 8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an OPEN DOOR (thura, entrance opening), and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. 9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I HAVE LOVED THEE. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (hupomone, cheerful endurance, patient continuance, waiting), I ALSO WILL KEEP THEE FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION (peirasmos, a putting to proof), WHICH SHALL COME UPON ALL THE WORLD, to try (peirazo, to try, prove, test) them that dwell upon the earth."

1. FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE: Wise virgins, Philadelphians, Rev. 4:1-4, 5:8,9
2. LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE: All believers not yet caught up, including the foolish virgins and the two witnesses, Moses and Elijah, Rev. 6:17; 7:9,14; 11:12.

THE TYPE OF TWO RAPTURES, FIRST TRUMP AND LAST TRUMP

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them (i.e., both) for THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (i.e., 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

THE GREAT MULTITUDE OF THE LASTBORN ARE TO BE GATHERED TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN IN HEAVEN AT THE LAST TRUMP

Heb 12:22-24 says, "But ye (i.e., THE LASTBORN, i.e., those caught up at the last trump) are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant"

THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE OF THE WISE-VIRGIN SAINTS: NONE MADE IMMORTAL YET

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (koimai, deceased), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP (salpigx, trumpet) of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise (anistemi, arise, lift up, raise up) first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo, TO BE CAUGHT UP, TAKEN BY FORCE) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE OF THE TWO WITNESSES, THE FOOLISH VIRGINS, THE 144,000 ISRAELITES AND A GREAT MULTITUDE TOO GREAT TO NUMBER: ALL SAINTS MADE IMMORTAL AT THE SAME TIME

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We (i.e., including Paul) shall not all sleep (koimao, die), but we shall ALL be changed (allasso, made different), 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (i.e., including Paul, an elder, and all the wise-virgin and foolish virgin saints) shall be changed (allasso, made different). 53 For this corruptible (phthartos, decayed, perishable) must put on incorruption (aphtharsia, unending existence), AND this mortal (thnetos, liable to die, mortal) must put on immortality (athanasia, deathlessness). 54 So when this corruptible (phthartos, decayed, perishable) shall have put on incorruption (aphtharsia, unending existence), and this mortal (thnetos, liable to die) shall have put on immortality (athanasia, deathlessness), then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

FIRSTBORN: WISE VIRGINS "OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION"

Rev 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (ginomai, became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one (i.e., Jesus, the first and the last) sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's rings) round about the throne (i.e., on Saturn, the 3rd heaven: 1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne (thronos) were four and twenty seats (thronos, thrones): and upon the seats (thrones) I saw four and twenty elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel) sitting (then John saw a vision of himself seated on a throne), clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Rev 4:5-11 says, "And out of the throne (i.e., on Saturn) proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne (i.e., 1. Sun, 2. Mercury, 3. Venus, 4. Earth, 5. Mars, 6. Jupiter, and 7. Saturn [Josephus, Ant. III. VI. 7]) which are the seven Spirits (pneuma, currents of air, i.e., orbits of the planets) of God. 6 And before the throne (i.e., on Saturn) there was a sea of glass (hualinos, transparent like glass) like unto crystal (krustallos, ice, i.e., Saturn's rings): and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes (i.e., full orbs) before and behind (i.e., these faces were on the flags set at the compass points when the Israelites camped around the Tabernacle) 7 And the first beast was like a lion (i.e., east), and the second beast like a calf (i.e., west), and the third beast had a face as a man (i.e., south), and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle (i.e., north). 8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him (i.e., they fly); and they were full of eyes (i.e., full orbs, globes) within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. 9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever, 10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, 11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou (i.e., Jesus/God) hast created all things (i.e., Heb. 1:2), and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

Besides the Philadelphians, all those overcomers in other church groups will be caught up in the first Rapture.

Rev. 2:26-29 says, "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28 And I will give him the MORNING STAR (i.e., Saturn). 29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

I think when Saturn is a morning star is a good time to watch for the Rapture.

"SATURN: PREDAWN/DAWN SKY...
http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/visible-planets-tonight-mars-jupiter-venus-saturn-mercury

"At mid-northern latitudes, Saturn rises about two hours before the sun in early December and about four hours before sunrise by the month's end. This golden-colored world shines in front of the constellation Libra the Scales.

Binoculars won't reveal Saturn's gorgeous rings, but a small telescope will. This month, your best chance of viewing Saturn's rings will be toward the end of the month, when Saturn rises several hours before dawn....
In December 2013, two of the five visible planets - Venus and Jupiter - will be easily visible in the evening sky. Mars comes up after midnight, and Saturn is up before dawn....

WE MUST WATCH, HOLD FAST, AND REPENT

Rev 3:3,4 says, "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis (meaning those escaping) which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy."

This sounds like if we do watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and we shall KNOW what hour he will come. Therefore, I keep watching.

ALL CAUGHT UP IN THE FIRST RAPTURE SING THE NEW SONG

Rev 5:8-11 says, "And when he (i.e., Jesus/God, represented by the Lamb because he is also sitting on the throne) had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they (i.e., the raptured saints) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book (i.e., thought to be the Title Deed of the Earth), and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

There will come a time when we will rule from New Jerusalem.

Rev_3:12 says, "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

THE NEW SONG IS MENTIONED IN BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS

Psa_33:3 says, "Sing unto him ('the LORD') a NEW SONG; play skilfully with a loud noise."

Psa_40:3 says, "And he hath put a NEW SONG in my mouth, even praise unto our God".

Psa_96:1 says, "O sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG: sing unto the LORD, all the earth".

Psa_98:1 says, "O sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm (i.e., Jesus/God), hath gotten him the victory."

Psa_144:9 says, "I will sing a NEW SONG unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee."

Psa 149:1-5 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation of saints. 2 Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. 3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. 4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. 5 Let the saints be joyful in glory (i.e., in Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds."

Isa_42:10 says, "Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof."

Rev_5:9 says, "And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation".

Rev_14:3 says, "And they sung AS IT WERE A NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

FOOLISH VIRGINS AND ALL OTHER BELIEVERS CAUGHT UP ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, THE GREAT AND TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:9 says, "...lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Rev 11:12,13 says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. AND THEY ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN in a cloud; and THEIR ENEMIES BEHELD THEM. 13 And the same hour was there a great EARTHQUAKE, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

OUT OF THE LAST RAPTURE, ONLY THE 144,000 ISRAELITE SAINTS CAN SING THE NEW SONG

Rev 14:1-5 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." Agape

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