Pro and Con 1775

Posted 12-23-13

GOD IS SUCH AN ARTIST, HEAVEN MUST BE BEAUTIFUL

MY REPLY TO A DISCUSSION I HAD ON CHRISTMAS, PART 1 OF 3

I'll try to cover the subjects we discussed. If I leave out something you need to know, please tell me.

If you haven't already, you might want to go to eSword and download the FREE King James Bible starter package. Then it is easy to search for every passage in which a certain word appears. You can also look up the original words in Hebrew or Greek and their meanings. As you will see, many things will come clear when you group like things together and look up the meanings of the original words.

JUST KNOW THIS

Psa_119:160 says, "Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."

Gen 1:1, the first verse, says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

DO BE CAREFUL

2Peter 3:15,16 warns us, saying, "account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, WHICH THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION."

Mostly near the end, I will quote from "A List of Biblical Contradictions (1992)" By Jim Meritt http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#equal_or_lesser

Jim seems to be a non-believer, a lost soul. Those cannot understand the Bible, because they do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit in them. They could even be demon-possessed, and if so, the demons would guide their thinking, because they do not want anyone to be saved. It is not safe to follow their line of thought as if it is correct.

IT TAKES SEARCHING THE SCRIPTURES, AND LOOKING UP ORIGINAL WORDS, TO FIGURE OUT SOME THINGS THAT ARE HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT

We should search both the Old Testament and the New Testament. Both are necessary for understanding everything God wants us to know.

Sometimes, we need to solve "a mystery". Sometimes, the solution is found in "hidden wisdom."

1 Corinthians 2:6,7 says, "Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But WE SPEAK THE WISDOM OF GOD IN A MYSTERY, EVEN THE HIDDEN WISDOM, which God ordained before the world unto our glory".

2Pe 3:16,17 says, "As also in all his (Paul's) epistles, speaking in them of these things; IN WHICH ARE SOME THINGS HARD TO BE UNDERSTOOD, WHICH THEY THAT ARE UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE WREST, AS THEY DO ALSO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, UNTO THEIR OWN DESTRUCTION. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness."

1Co_2:14 says, "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED."

1Co_3:19 says, "the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, HE TAKETH THE WISE IN THEIR OWN CRAFTINESS."

"THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN" AND JESUS SAID, "THE FATHER IS IN ME, AND I IN HIM."

Psa_82:6 says, "I have said, YE ARE GODS; and all of you are children of the most High."

Joh 10:33-38 says, "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written IN YOUR LAW, I SAID, YE ARE GODS? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that THE FATHER IS IN ME, AND I IN HIM."

JESUS IS GOD IN BOTH TESTAMENTS

In Joh_10:30, Jesus said, "I and my Father are one."

IT IS CERTAIN THAT THE SON OF GOD WAS PRESENT IN OLD TESTAMENT TIMES, AND THAT HE SOMETIMES APPEARED TO MAN AS THE ANGEL OF THE LORD

Pro_30:4 says, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? (i.e., God) who hath gathered the wind in his fists? (God) who hath bound the waters in a garment? (God) who hath established all the ends of the earth? (God) what is his name (YHWH), and WHAT IS HIS SON'S NAME (YHWH of hosts, Jesus), if thou canst tell?"

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT WE UNDERSTAND THE OLD TESTAMENT?

IT TELLS US WHO THE SAVIOUR REALLY IS.

YHWH was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.

Isa_43:11 says, "I, even I, am the LORD (YHWH); and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR."

Isa 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the redeemer); and beside me there is no God."

Isa_44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. IS THERE A GOD BESIDE ME? YEA, THERE IS NO GOD; I know not any."

Isa_45:5,6 says, "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else."

Isa_45:21-23 says, "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and THERE IS NO GOD ELSE BESIDE ME; A JUST GOD AND A SAVIOUR; THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME; 22 LOOK UNTO ME, AND BE YE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH: FOR I AM GOD, AND THERE IS NONE ELSE. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Isa_46:9 says, "Remember the former things of old: for I AM GOD, AND THERE IS NONE ELSE; I AM GOD, AND THERE IS NONE LIKE ME".

IT IS CLEAR THAT THE SON OF GOD SPOKE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

Isa_48:12 says, "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first (YHWH), I also am the last" (THE SON OF GOD, JESUS).

FROM THE BEGINNING, THE FATHER, AND HIS SPIRIT, SENT THE SON OF GOD, WHO INDWELT JESUS

In Isa_48:16-18, we clearly hear the Son of God saying, "Come ye near unto me, HEAR YE THIS; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (YHWH, the Father), and his Spirit (the Holy Spirit), hath sent ME" (THE SON OF GOD). 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer (i.e., Jesus), the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".

THE SON OF GOD WAS THE ANGEL OF THE LORD IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

Gen_16:7-11 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. 8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.9 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.10 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction."

Gen_22:11 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I."

Gen_22:15 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time"

Gen_24:7 says, "The LORD God of heaven, which took me from my father's house, and from the land of my kindred, and which spake unto me, and that sware unto me, saying, Unto thy seed will I give this land; he shall send HIS ANGEL before thee, and thou shalt take a wife unto my son from thence."

Exo_3:2 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD appeared unto him (Moses) in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed."

Num_22:22-27 says, "God's anger was kindled because he (Balaam) went: and the ANGEL OF THE LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. 23 And the ass saw the ANGEL OF THE LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. 24 But the ANGEL OF THE LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side. 25 And when the ass saw the ANGEL OF THE LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. 26 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. 27 And when the ass saw ANGEL OF THE LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff."

Num_22:31,32 says, "Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and HE SAW THE ANGEL OF THE LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. 32 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me"

Num_22:34, 35 says, "And Balaam said unto the ANGEL OF THE LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again. 35 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak."

Jdg_2:4 says, "And it came to pass, when the ANGEL OF THE LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept."

Jdg_6:12 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD APPEARED UNTO HIM, and said unto him, The LORD IS WITH THEE, thou mighty man of valour."

Jdg_6:21-23 says, "Then the ANGEL OF THE LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the ANGEL OF THE LORD departed out of his sight. 22 And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face.23 And the LORD said unto him, Peace be unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die."

Jdg_13:3 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son."

Jdg_13:13 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware."

Jdg_13:15-18 says, "And Manoah said unto the ANGEL OF THE LORD, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee. 16 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he was an ANGEL OF THE LORD. 17 And Manoah said unto the ANGEL OF THE LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? 18 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto him, WHY ASKEST THOU THUS AFTER MY NAME, SEEING IT IS SECRET?"

Jdg_13:20,21 says, "For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the ANGEL OF THE LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground. 21 But the ANGEL OF THE LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an ANGEL OF THE LORD"

2Sa_24:16 says, "And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the ANGEL OF THE LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite."

1Ki_19:7 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat; because the journey is too great for thee."

2Ki_1:3 says, "But the ANGEL OF THE LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron? "

2Ki_1:15 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king."

1Ch_21:12 says, "Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the ANGEL OF THE LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me."

THE THRESHINGFLOOR OF ORNAN THE JEBUSITE IS NOW THE TEMPLE MOUNT

1Ch_21:15,16 says, "And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the ANGEL OF THE LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. 16 And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the ANGEL OF THE LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces."

1Ch_21:18 says, "Then the ANGEL OF THE LORD commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite."

1Ch_21:30 says, "But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the ANGEL OF THE LORD."

Psa_34:7 says, "The ANGEL OF THE LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them."

Psa_35:5,6 says, "Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the ANGEL OF THE LORD chase them. 6 Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the ANGEL OF THE LORD persecute them."

Zec_3:1 says, "And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the ANGEL OF THE LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him."

Zec_3:5-8 says, "And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the ANGEL OF THE LORD stood by. 6 And the ANGEL OF THE LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, 7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by. 8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH (i.e., Jesus)."

Zec_12:8 says, "In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and THE HOUSE OF DAVID SHALL BE AS GOD, AS THE ANGEL OF THE LORD before them."

This was fulfilled in Jesus, descended from King David.

Mat 1:17 says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

THE ANGEL OF THE LORD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

Mat_1:20 says, "But while he thought on these things, behold, the ANGEL OF THE LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, JOSEPH, THOU SON OF DAVID, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

Mat_1:24 says, "Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the ANGEL OF THE LORD had bidden him, and took unto him his wife".

Mat_2:13 says, "And when they were departed, behold, the ANGEL OF THE LORD appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the YOUNG CHILD and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him."

Luk_2:9 says, "And, lo, the ANGEL OF THE LORD came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid."

Act_5:19 says, "But the ANGEL OF THE LORD by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth"

Act_7:30 says, "And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an ANGEL OF THE LORD in a flame of fire in a bush."

Act_8:26 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert."

Act_12:7 says, "And, behold, the ANGEL OF THE LORD came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands."

Rev_22:6 says, "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and THE LORD GOD OF THE HOLY PROPHETS SENT HIS ANGEL TO SHEW UNTO HIS SERVANTS THE THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY BE DONE."

THERE IS ONE GOD PRESENTED TO US IN THREE WAYS, THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT/HOLY GHOST

Mat_28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

IN HEAVEN, WE WILL STILL SEE GOD IN THE FACE OF JESUS CHRIST

Rev 22:1-5 says, "And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of THE THRONE (ONE THRONE) OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB (JESUS). 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne (ONE THRONE) OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB shall be in it; and his servants shall serve HIM (singular): 4 And they shall see HIS FACE (ONE FACE, THAT OF JESUS); and HIS NAME (ONE NAME) shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

LOCATION OF THE THRONE OF GOD AND OF THE LAMB

Eze 1:1,26-28 says, "as I was among the captives by the river of Chebar, that the heavens were opened, and I saw visions of GOD.... 26 And above the firmament (i.e., expanse of space) that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear; Webster's Collegiate Dictionary; as Jesus' September birthstone, it means heaven): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (the only God/man is Jesus) above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's rings). 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Rev. 4:1-6 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither (i.e., the First-Trump Rapture), and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter (i.e., after the First-Trump Rapture). 2 And immediately I was (ginomai, became) in the spirit: and, behold, A THRONE (i.e., one throne) was set in heaven, and ONE (i.e., Jesus) sat on the throne. 3 And he (i.e., Jesus) that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., he is both the first, YHWH, and the last, JESUS): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's rings) round about the throne (on Saturn), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone in the breastplate, i.e., Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel) sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. 5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were SEVEN LAMPS OF FIRE BURNING BEFORE THE THRONE (i.e., Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, as depicted by the Temple Lampstand [Josephus, a Pharisee priest, Ant. III. VI.7), which are the seven Spirits (pneuma, currents of air, i.e., orbits) of God. 6 And before the throne there was a SEA OF GLASS (HUALINOS, glassy, transparent, i.e., ice) LIKE UNTO CRYSTAL (krustallos, frost, ICE, i.e., Saturn's rings): and in the midst (mesos, middle) of the throne" (i.e., the rings surround Saturn at the equator).

Ezekiel was a true prophet of God. He saw and spoke what the Lord gave him.

Eze 2:1-5 says, "And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. 2 And THE SPIRIT ENTERED INTO ME WHEN HE SPAKE UNTO ME, AND SET ME UPON MY FEET, that I heard him that spake unto me. 3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day. 4 For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD. 5 And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house,) yet shall KNOW THAT THERE HATH BEEN A PROPHET AMONG THEM."

Eze 7:25 says, "Destruction cometh; and THEY SHALL SEEK PEACE, AND THERE SHALL BE NONE."

Why?

Eze 8:14 says, "Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz" (i.e., the pagan Sun god).

Eze 8:16 says, "And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and THEY WORSHIPPED THE SUN TOWARD THE EAST" (i.e., as the Muslims on the Temple Mount pray facing Mecca).

Eze 10:1,2 says, "Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament (i.e., expanse of space) that was above the head of the cherubims (i.e., Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars) there appeared over them as it were a SAPPHIRE STONE (i.e., Saturn), as the appearance of the likeness of a throne (i.e., the throne of the only God/man, Jesus). 2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub (i.e., Satan, on the asteroid Wormwood, Rev. 8:11), and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims (i.e., the terrestrial planets), and scatter them over the city (i.e., Jerusalem). And he went in in my sight." (Continued on Pro and Con 1776)

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