Pro and Con 1776

Posted 12-31-13

I THINK THIS IS THE MOST UNUSUAL FISH I EVER SAW. GOD LIKES VARIETY

MY REPLY TO A DISCUSSION I HAD ON CHRISTMAS, PART 2 OF 3

Quotes are from "A List of Biblical Contradictions (1992)" By Jim Meritt http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#equal_or_lesser THE ANGELS THAT KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE (RAHAB)

Jude 1:6 says, "AND THE ANGELS WHICH KEPT NOT THEIR FIRST ESTATE (i.e., the planet Rahab, now our Asteroid Belt), BUT LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION (i.e., on Rahab), HE HATH RESERVED IN EVERLASTING CHAINS UNDER DARKNESS UNTO THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY".

Psa_89:10 says, "THOU HAST BROKEN RAHAB IN PIECES, as one that is slain; thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm." Isa 51:9,10 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., the Son of God/Jesus, the arm of the Lord, Isa. 53:1); AWAKE, AS IN THE ANCIENT DAYS, IN THE GENERATIONS OF OLD (i.e., when the angels left their habitation and lived on Earth, as they did in Catal Hoyuk in Anatolia Turkey, c. 8500 BC, before Adam was created in 4043 BC).

"ART THOU NOT IT THAT HATH CUT (chatsab, split, divided) RAHAB, AND WOUNDED THE DRAGON (i.e., Satan)? 10 ART THOU NOT IT WHICH HATH DRIED THE SEA, THE WATERS OF THE GREAT DEEP" (i.e., the Challenger Deep in the Marianna Trench in the Pacific Ocean)."

Job 26:7-12 says, "He stretcheth out the north over the empty (tohu, waste and desolate) place (i.e., at our North Pole), and hangeth the earth upon nothing. 8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent under them. 9 He holdeth back the face (i.e., surface) of his throne (i.e., thick clouds keep us from seeing the surface of Saturn), and spreadeth his cloud upon it. 10 He hath compassed (chug, surrounded) the waters (i.e., in our Pacific Basin) with bounds, until the day and night come to an end (i.e., on the Day of God's Wrath, Rev. 6:12-17). 11 The pillars of heaven tremble (ruph, to agitate by concussion, violent jarring, shock) and are astonished at his reproof (garah, rebuke). 12 HE DIVIDETH THE SEA (i.e., the Pacific Ocean) WITH HIS POWER, AND BY HIS UNDERSTANDING HE SMITETH THROUGH THE PROUD (Heb. RAHAB, i.e., Satan's planet, which is now our Asteroid Belt)."

Psa_87:4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me".

Both are to be destroyed. The planet Rahab is now our Asteroid Belt. Babylon will become the Lake of Fire on Earth on the Day of God's Wrath, when Satan's present asteroid home, Wormwood, impacts Earth. It's smoke will go up forever.

Rev 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

WORMWOOD, SATAN'S HOME AT PRESENT

Rev 8:8-11 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea (i.e., the NE Mediterranean Sea): and the third part of the sea became blood; 9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood".

SATAN IS STILL ADMITTED TO HEAVEN, BUT WILL BE THROWN OUT MID-TRIB, WHICH SHOULD BE COMING UP SOON

Rev 12:7-12 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; NEITHER WAS THEIR PLACE FOUND ANY MORE IN HEAVEN. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out INTO the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW IS COME SALVATION (SOTERIA, RESCUE, PROBABLY THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 THEREFORE REJOICE, YE HEAVENS, AND YE THAT DWELL IN THEM. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" (i.e., the Great Tribulation that is to be shortened).

Rev 17:8-11 says, "The beast that thou sawest (i.e., Satan) was (i.e., in Judus Iscariot), and is not (i.e., not in man now); and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition (i.e., Satan will come up out of the Earth and enter into the False Prophet, the 2nd son of perdition): and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen (i.e., kings of Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, and the Holy Roman Empire), and one is (i.e., the Ecclesiastical Holy Roman Empire), and the other (Babylon III) is not yet come; and when he (the False Prophet) cometh, he must continue a short space (i.e., the Great Tribulation). 11 And the beast that was, and is not (i.e., Satan), even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" (i.e., the False Prophet).

YOU MENTIONED "BIBLE CONTRADICTIONS"

I will quote from "A List of Biblical Contradictions (1992)" By Jim Meritt http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html#equal_or_lesser

> > Who is the father of Joseph?
> > MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
> > LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli."

Before I get into the rest, Mt. 1:17 is given so we can figure out the length of one generation, 48.33 years. To figure this, I went to my Bible Chronology on my website.
http://www.prophecycorner.theforeverfamily.com/chron.html

Mt. 1:17 says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

That shows how detailed the Lord's plans that he made before the world began were, and he brought it to pass. 2035 - 5 = 2030 years / 42 generations = 48.33 years for one generation. The Six-Day War of 1967 + 48.33 years = The Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015. This seems to be the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath, when Satan's asteroid Wormwood will cause Babylon, Iraq, to become the permanent Lake of Fire.

THE GENEALOGY OF JOSEPH PROBLEM

Matthew's genealogy is that of Joseph. Luke's is that of Mary.

Luk 3:23 (KJV) says, "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli".

Why do you think the phrase "as was supposed" is in this scripture? I had to look this one up. I had forgotten the Hebrew custom if I ever knew it.

Thank you Lord for Clarke's Commentary on the Bible. It says, "As the Hebrews never permitted women to enter into their genealogical tables, whenever a family happened to end with a daughter, instead of naming her in the genealogy, they inserted her husband, as the son of him who was, in reality, but his father-in-law."

Mary was the daughter of Heli. Luke was giving the genealogy of Mary. The words "(as was supposed)" should clue us in.

HERE ARE OTHER STATEMENTS MADE BY JIM MERRITT

> > Order of creation

> > Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:

> > Day 1: Sky, Earth, light Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!) Day 3: Plants Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids) Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.) Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time) Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)

> > Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."

Before I get into Genesis 1, the word Elohim is not to be translated "the Gods." It is to be translated "God." It is plural because God is presented to us as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the three are one.

Mat_28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost".

Creation according to JIM MERRITT
> > How orderly were things created?
> > #1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
> > #2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
> > Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
> > Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)

He got started off wrong. God doesn't forget things like that. Jim assumed it. By this, right off the bat, you can tell who is behind Jim's statements.

Deu_4:31 says, "(For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them."

The Sun, Moon, stars, planets, including Earth, plants, animals and water were created in the beginning. Earth, in that dateless past, was formed to be inhabited.

Isa_45:18 says, "For thus saith the LORD that created (bara, created from nothing) the HEAVENS (i.e., the Sun, stars and planets, including Earth); God himself that formed (yatsar, squeezed into shape like a potter) the earth and made (asah, to make out of existing materials) it; he hath established (kun, perfected, made ready) it, HE CREATED IT NOT IN VAIN (tohu, waste), he formed it to be INHABITED".

We know that is true. We find dinosaur bones piled on top of each other in China, and all kinds of extinct animal bones on top of each other in the Los Angeles Brea Tar Pits. All were killed by the world-wide catastrophe that buried them and resurfaced the face of the earth.

To really understand some things in the Bible, you have to read the whole thing. Also, unbelievers cannot understand until they accept Christ and have the indwelling Holy Spirit to help them understand.

Luk_24:45 says, "Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures".

Gen 1:1 (KJV) says, "In the beginning God (Elohim) created (bara, created from nothing) the heaven (Saturn, the 3rd heaven, Paradise) and the earth."

II Cor 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, and 3, Saturn). 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

In Hebrew, when the word HAYAH is used, it means CHANGE, and should be translated BECAME. In the KJV, when the word hayah does not appear, the word "was" is in italics.

In the beginning, Earth was created perfect. At that time, there were animals living on Earth. Obviously, they had plants to eat and water to drink.

Gen. 1:2-5 says, "And the earth was (hayah, BECAME) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep (i.e., the Pacific Basin). And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the WATERS (i.e., that were already there). 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light (i.e., the clouds thinned and the sunshine could come through). 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light DAY, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the FIRST DAY."

The word "Day" requires sunlight on the first day.

Jim said,
"How orderly were things created?
" #1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things) "How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)"

Omniscient means that God is all knowing. Omnipotent means he is all powerful. Omnipresent means he is present everywhere. He does not really forget things, unless he wants to wipe someone's sins off the book.

Act_17:28 says, "For in him we live, and move, and have our being".

Can you imagine how God feels as he sees how Jim writes?

Gen 1:31 says, "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good."

Earth had soil, water and light on day 1. Sunlight made "day" possible. Lack of sunlight was "night".

In Hebrew, the word HAYAH means change. If it is not used, and has to be supplied by the translators, there is no change. To understand the passage correctly, we must take into consideration where there was a change.

Verse 2 says, "And the earth was (hayah, BECAME) without form (tohu, waste), and void (bohu, desolation); and darkness was upon the face of the deep (tehom, the deep of the main sea, i.e., it was dark because of the huge asteroid impact that dug the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin). And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Why? probably to melt ice.

Verse 3 says, "And God said, Let there be light: and there was (hayah, BECAME) light." There was a change. The cloud cover thinned, and the sunlight could be seen.

After the original creation, a catastrophe took place. It destroyed the civilization the fallen angels had built in Anatolia, Turkey, including that at Catal Hoyuk, dated at 8500 BC. Those days were "the generations of old." Adam was not created until 4043 BC.

Then who inhabited Earth before Adam "in the generations of old"?

Jude 1:6 says, "And the ANGELS which kept not their first estate (i.e., on the planet Rahab between Mars and Jupiter, now our Asteroid Belt), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

That judgment is probably the Great White Throne judgment after the Millennium.

Isa 51:9,10 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., Christ, Isa 53:1); awake, as in the ancient days, IN THE GENERATIONS OF OLD. Art thou not it that hath cut (chatsab, split) Rahab (now our Asteroid Belt), and wounded the dragon (Satan)? 10 Art thou not it which hath DRIED THE SEA, THE WATERS OF THE GREAT DEEP (tehom, abyss, main sea)".

The great deep is now called the Challenger Deep in the deepest part of the Marianna Trench in the Pacific Basin. It took the giant asteroid impact that blasted the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin to dry "the waters of the great deep".

A lot took place between Genesis 1 and 2. The end came suddenly. An asteroid, a rock from the destruction of Satan's planet Rahab, now our Asteroid Belt, obviously hit Earth. This globe rocked back and forth before it regained its equilibrium, and the angel's villages were covered with rocks, soil, and sand. Those mounds were not excavated until modern times. Mars has a huge black scar where it got hit too. That is probably when Mars lost its seas.

Gen 1:7 says, "And God made the firmament (i.e., referring to the expanse of space in our Solar System), and divided the waters which were under the firmament (i.e., on Earth) from the waters which were above the firmament (i.e., in the Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud): and it was (hayah, BECAME) so."

NASA says, "2. The Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud surround our sun, a star. The Kuiper Belt is a doughnut-shaped ring, extending just beyond the orbit of Neptune from about 30 to 55 AU. The Oort Cloud is a spherical shell, occupying space at a distance between five thousand and 100 thousand AU. 3. Long-period comets (which take more than 200 years to orbit the sun) come from the Oort Cloud. Short-period comets (which take less than 200 years to orbit the Sun) originate in the Kuiper Belt. 4.There may be are hundreds of thousands of icy bodies larger than 100 km (62 miles) and an estimated trillion or more comets within the Kuiper Belt. The Oort Cloud may contain more than a trillion icy bodies." http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=KBOs

Gen 1:9 says, "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one (echad, united) place, and let the dry land appear: and it was (hayah, BECAME) so.

Gen 1:11 says, "And God said, Let the EARTH bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was (hayah, BECAME) so."

Gen 1:12 says, "And the EARTH brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

Gen 1:14-18 says, "And God said, LET THERE BE (i.e., he didn't "bara" create them from nothing, they were already there, he just cleared the clouds so they became visible) lights (i.e., the Sun and Moon) in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And LET THEM BE for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. 16 And God made (asah, made out of existing materials) two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made ("he made" is supplied by the translators) the stars also (i.e., the Moon and stars rule the night). 17 And God set (nathan, restored) them (i.e., the Sun, Moon and stars) in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good."

Jim said,
> > Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
> > JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
> > JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again
unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus is a God/man. As God, he is equal to the Father. As man, he is lesser than the Father. Jesus went away on Ascension Day so he could come again invisibly as the Holy Ghost/Comforter to indwell believers on Pentecost.

Joh_16:7 says, "Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

Speaking to believers in Heb_13:5, Jesus is quoted. It says, "he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee."

> > Earth supported?
> > JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
> > JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
No visible support, but we can understand that Earth is held in orbit around the Sun by gravity and motion. It is travelling really fast ("69,360.73 MPH").

How Earth's speed is figured:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/02files/Speed_of_Earth.html

"The Earth is orbiting the Sun once a year. The circumference of the Earth's orbit is approx. 607.6 million miles {or 940 million kilometers}. One year is approx. 365 days 365 days X 24 = 8760 hours 607,600,000/8760 = 69,360.73 MPH"

"How does Earth keep its orbit around the Sun and not come closer to the Sun. http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=770

"The Earth is always being pulled towards the Sun by gravity. If the Earth were stationary compared to the Sun, it would fall into the sun under the force of gravity. However the Earth is actually moving sideways compared to the center of the Sun at 3 km/second (~2 miles/second). The Earth is not moving fast enough to "escape" the Sun's gravity and leave the solar system, but it is going too fast to be pulled into the Sun. Therefore, it keeps going around and around - orbiting the Sun. It is rather like a tether ball. Think of the top of the post as the Sun and the ball as the Earth. The string between them is like the force of gravity keeping them the same distance apart. When you hit the tether ball it spins around the post. If there were no air or rope friction, the ball would spin forever without getting any closer to the post. That is essentially what the Earth is doing when it orbits the Sun - in the vacuum of outer space, it does not loose speed to air friction, so it just keeps going around the Sun."

I also think the gravity of the outer planets helps Earth hold to her course.

How Earth's speed is figured:
http://www.thelivingmoon.com/41pegasus/02files/Speed_of_Earth.html

"The Earth is orbiting the Sun once a year. The circumference of the Earth's orbit is approx. 607.6 million miles {or 940 million kilometers}. One year is approx. 365 days
365 days X 24 = 8760 hours
607,600,000/8760 = 69,360.73 MPH"

"How does Earth keep its orbit around the Sun and not come closer to the Sun.

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=770

"The Earth is always being pulled towards the Sun by gravity. If the Earth were stationary compared to the Sun, it would fall into the sun under the force of gravity. However the Earth is actually moving sideways compared to the center of the Sun at 3 km/second (~2 miles/second). The Earth is not moving fast enough to "escape" the Sun's gravity and leave the solar system, but it is going too fast to be pulled into the Sun. Therefore, it keeps going around and around - orbiting the Sun. It is rather like a tether ball. Think of the top of the post as the Sun and the ball as the Earth. The string between them is like the force of gravity keeping them the same distance apart. When you hit the tether ball it spins around the post. If there were no air or rope friction, the ball would spin forever without getting any closer to the post. That is essentially what the Earth is doing when it orbits the Sun - in the vacuum of outer space, it does not loose speed to air friction, so it just keeps going around the Sun."

Job 26:7-14 says, "He stretcheth out the north (i.e., Earth's north pole) over the empty place (tohu, waste, desolate) , and hangeth (talah, suspends) the earth upon nothing. 8 He bindeth up the waters in his thick clouds; and the cloud is not rent (baqa, ripped open) under them. 9 He holdeth back the face (paniym, face, as the part that turns) of his throne (i.e., which is on the 3rd heaven from Earth, 1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn), and spreadeth his cloud upon it. 10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day (Heb., "or", sunlight) and night (i.e., time of the Moon) come to an end (i.e., as on the Day of God's Wrath, Rev. 8:12,17) 11 The pillars of heaven (shamayim, the heavens, where the celestial bodies revolve) tremble (ruph, to agitate by concussion) and are astonished at his reproof (garah, rebuke). 12 He divideth (raga, to toss violently and suddenly) the SEA with his power, and by his understanding he smiteth through the PROUD (Heb., RAHAB, i.e., Satan's planet that is now our Asteroid Belt). 13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens (shamayim, where the celestial bodies revolve); his hand hath formed the crooked serpent (i.e., Satan). 14 LO, THESE ARE PARTS (qatsah, TERMINATIONS) of his (i.e., Satan's) ways (derek, course of life or mode of action): but how little a portion is heard of him? but the thunder of his power who can understand?"
(Part 3 is on Pro and Con 1777)

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