Pro and Con 1804
A BEAUTIFUL LIVE COELACANTH, LONG THOUGHT TO BE EXTINCT
A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: "Diamonds and Nuggets of the Bible - 1", BY PASTOR BOB (8 JUNE 2014)
Anyone attempting to understand the Apostle Paul's words concerning the Rapture has to start or begin with his words in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52: "Behold I show you a mystery, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."
I believe the following three passages are the leading verses for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. They are all recorded by the Apostle Paul:
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
1 Thessalonians 4:14, 16
You might consider others, but I see these as absolute "keepers".
MY REPLY, RE: PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
I have been enjoying your posts. Usually, I agree with you, but here I respectfully differ.
I am 85, and have been studying the Bible as hard as I can go since 1960. After I exhausted our Bethany Baptist Church Library, I got my Library Card from BIOLA's library in La Mirada, CA. I read about an 18" stack of books from BIOLA's Seminary Collection every week for 7 years. I was steeped in Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine, and I went along with it. It sounded most reasonable to me. I believed like Dr. Thomas Ice.
However, with more study using mainly my Scofield KJV Bible and Strong's Concordance, I had to change my mind.
MY FIRST GLIMMER: I THOUGHT, HOW CAN THERE BE A LAST TRUMP UNLESS THERE IS A FIRST TRUMP?
If 1 Corinthians 15:51-54 is the last trump, then 1 Thessalonians 4:16,17 must be the first trump.
Now, I am convinced that I Thess 4:16-17 is talking about the First-Trump Rapture, and I Cor 15:51-54 is talking about the Last-Trump Rapture.
WE MUST BE "CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL" TO BE CAUGHT UP IN THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE
Luk 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise, i.e., the foolish virgins) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (i.e., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (i.e., of the Tribulation) with the unbelievers."
Mat 24:50,51 says, "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (i.e., the Great Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 22:14 says, "many are called, but FEW ARE CHOSEN."
Rev 17:12 says, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet". The time is during the Great Tribulation.
Rev 17:14 says, "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM (i.e., already Raptured before the 10 kings receive their kingdom during the Great Tribulation) ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."
WE ARE MADE IMMORTAL AT THE LAST TRUMP RAPTURE
No one is made immortal at the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE. All are made immortal at the LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, even Paul.
1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption (accomplished in either Rapture), and this mortal must put on immortality (only at the Last-Trump Rapture). 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
AT THE FIRST TRUMP RAPTURE, THE BRIDE OF CHRIST WILL BE CAUGHT UP BEFORE CHRIST IS GIVEN THE 7-SEALED BOOK
I Thess 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together (hama, properly at the 'same' time) with (sun, in union with) them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
AT THE FIRST "COME UP HITHER", THERE IS NO EARTHQUAKE
Rev 4:1 says, "a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."
Jesus is given the 7-sealed book after the First-Trump Rapture.
Rev 5:7 says, "And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
The sixth seal is broken on the day of the Last-Trump Rapture.
AT THE LAST TRUMP RAPTURE, THE SAINTS OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION WILL BE CAUGHT UP ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH AND WE ALL WILL ALL BECOME IMMORTAL ON THAT DAY OF THE GREAT EARTHQUAKE
1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We (i.e., including Paul, who will be one of the elders sitting on their thrones after the First-Trump Rapture) shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption (i.e., at either Rapture), and this mortal shall have put on immortality (only after the last Rapture), then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."
Rev 6:12,13 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great EARTHQUAKE; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth".
Rev 6:17 says, "For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?" (probably no one, two asteroids will impact earth that day, the mountain of Rev. 8:8 and the asteroid Wormwood of Rev. 8:11).
Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".
THE FIRST GROUP RAPTURED DO NOT HAVE TO WASH THEIR ROBES, BUT THOSE CAUGHT UP IN THE SECOND RAPTURE HAVE TO WASH THEIR ROBES
Rev 7:14,15 says,"These are they which came out of GREAT tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God."
AT THE SIXTH SEAL, WE FIND THE LAST "COME UP HITHER", AND THERE IS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE
Rev 6:12,13 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great EARTHQUAKE; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth".
Rev_8:5 And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an EARTHQUAKE."
Rev 11:12,13 says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and the tenth part of the city fell".
Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an EARTHQUAKE, and great hail."
Rev_16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a GREAT EARTHQUAKE, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an EARTHQUAKE, and so great."
THE GREAT EARTHQUAKE IS CAUSED BY THE MOUNTAIN-SIZED ASTEROID BEING CAST INTO THE MEDITERRANEAN SEA AND THE ASTEROID WORMWOOD IMPACTING BABYLON NEAR THE EUPHRATES RIVER
Rev 8:8 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were A GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE WAS CAST INTO THE SEA: and the third part of the sea became blood".
Rev 8:11 says, "And the name of the star is called WORMWOOD: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."
Eze 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great SHAKING in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea (i.e., the Mediterranean), and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and the mountains (i.e., asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground. 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain (i.e., a tsunami), and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."
Isa 22:5 says, "For it is a day of trouble, and of treading down, and of perplexity by the Lord GOD of hosts in the valley of vision, BREAKING DOWN THE WALLS, and of crying to the mountains."
Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (i.e., in the asteroid Wormwood)? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down" (haras, to throw down).
Jud 1:6 says, "And the angels which kept not their first estate (i.e., on the planet Rahab, now our Asteroid Belt), but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., the Son of God, Isa. 53:1f); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (chatsab, split) Rahab (meaning proud, i.e. Satan's planet), and wounded the dragon?" (Satan).
WHAT ABOUT MT 24:29-31?
It says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then (tote, at that time) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (i.e., the last trump), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Here, the Lord sends the angels to gather together the elect that are already in Heaven, i.e., the wise virgins, that were previously caught up in the First-Trump Rapture.
Mar 13:26,27 is a little different. It says, "And then (tote, at that time) shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then (tote, at that time) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."
Those coming from the Earth are the Tribulation saints, the unwise virgins that were left behind at the time of the First-Trump Rapture. This is the Last-Trump Rapture.
THE WISE AND FOOLISH VIRGINS ARE CAUGHT UP AT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES
Mat 25:6-12 says, " And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
AT THE FIRST RAPTURE ALL SING THE NEW SONG
Rev 5:8-10 says, "And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they (the saints) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."
AT THE TIME OF THE LAST RAPTURE ONLY THE 144,000 ISRAELITES GET TO SING THE NEW SONG
Rev 14:1-3 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."
HOWEVER, SOMETIME AFTER BOTH RAPTURES, ALL SAINTS IN HEAVEN WILL GET TO SING THE NEW SONG
Psa 149:1 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation of saints."
Psa 149:5-9 says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory (i.e., in Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds. 6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; 7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have ALL his saints. Praise ye the LORD." Agape
INCOMING EMAIL, RE: The seven seals
Ezekiel 47 shows us five levels of depth to the word of God. The different levels of depth are the same as growing up in the LORD and getting greater understanding of the Word. Do we not receive Revelation from the throne of God and the Lamb?
Are we NOT cleansed by the washing of the Word? Ezekiel was taken to the east gate of the temple of God and he saw water running out from the right side of the gate, of the temple of GOD. God and the Lamb sets on the throne in their temple and nothing impure sets with them.
Ezekiel 47 2He brought me out by way of the north gate, and led me around on the outside to the outer gateway that faces east; and there was water, running out on the right side.
3And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles. 4Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist. 5Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed.
The water Ezekiel saw was the river of life that flows from the Throne of God; it is the pure crystal clear undefiled truth that flows out from the throne of God and the Lamb. There is NOTHING IMPURE can live in the crystal clear river of life.
When a person is totally submersed in the crystal clear river of life, that person will receives deep crystal clear Revelation knowledge form the Lamb of God.
Every scripture that was written in the Bible was Revelation knowledge for the writers, and the writers wrote what God gave them some had deeper understanding than others. Moses received Revelation knowledge from God and Moses wrote what the LORD told him. All of the Prophets received Revelation knowledge from the Lord and they wrote what the LORD spoke to them. The parables of Christ were Revelation knowledge He received from the Father. Paul received Revelation knowledge from God to write his epistles and in some cases Paul gave scripture reference to back up what he was saying.
Yahshua spoke of two temples, one is built upon the rock, and we know Christ is the rock in which we build upon. The other temple in which Christ spoke of is built upon the sand, we know sand is ONLY a ground covering meaning the surface. When the sand is scraped off a harder surface is revealed and we can build upon the harder surface. For every level of depth in the LORD there will always be another level of depth in the LORD. Therefore sand is a reference to people building their doctrine upon the surface of the Word of God. 99.9 percent of the people who claims Christ as LORD and savior are building their houses upon the sand and the LORD will say the them I never knew you, because they do not have the Spirit of God in them to bring them Revelation knowledge from the throne.
The Messianic Jews have entered back into bondage to the Law; they are building upon the surface, because they do not have the Spirit of God to give them Revelation knowledge. Truth have ALWAYS offended the people who claims they have eternal salvation.
The Messianic Jews build their doctrine upon the surface of the Word, so they keep the feast according to the letter of the Law and they quote the scriptures as if the feast was necessary through Christ. However Christ is our feast, He is our Sabbath rest, when we feast upon Christ He gives us rest seven days a week. It takes a special kind of people to receive Revelation knowledge from the LORD, and the Revelation knowledge will be offensive to those that are building upon the surface.
The worldly people can quote scripture but they do NOT have to Spirit of God to receive Revelation knowledge from the LORD.
You are reading something into into Eze. 47:2-5 that is not there.
> > The Messianic Jews have entered back into bondage to the Law; they are building upon the surface, because they do not have the Spirit of God to give them Revelation knowledge. Truth have ALWAYS offended the people who claims they have eternal salvation.
> > The worldly people can quote scripture but they do NOT have to Spirit of God to receive Revelation knowledge from the LORD.
A Messianic Jew has accepted Christ as his saviour. Therefore, he has the Holy Spirit within him. If you don't know that, I wonder how much of the New Testament you have read.
"Messianic Judaism is a syncretic religious movement that arose in the 1960s and 70s. It blends evangelical Christian theology with elements of religious Jewish practice and terminology. Messianic Judaism generally holds that Jesus is both the Jewish Messiah and "God the Son" (one person of the Trinity)".
"Salvation in most forms of Messianic Judaism is achieved only through acceptance of Jesus as one's saviour".
"The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, "For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-and we were all given the one Spirit to drink." Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: "Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory."
"These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation."
INCOMING EMAIL'S INTERESTING FACT
"The rate increase in major (volcanic) eruptions since 1950 is four times greater than at any time in recorded history."
And that is before the asteroid Wormwood hits earth.
I lost your email through a computer glitch. I cannot remember everything about it, but I do remember you saying something like.
Anything other than the literal understanding of scripture is twisted.
I disagree with you because Christ did not quote literal scripture, except on occasions. Christ quoted scripture only in His defense, Matthew 4: Christ did not use the scripture as doctrine but Christ defended Himself with scripture against Satan.
Therefore are you saying that Christ was twisted in the things He spoke? Are you saying Paul was twisted in His thoughts?
Because Paul did not quote literal scripture, except on occasion, part Paul spoke by the Spirit, things that were not written in the law or the prophets. Paul wrote what the Spirit said; therefore he did not rewrite the literal scripture.
Moses wrote the law, if the people did not believe what Moses wrote, what good would it serve for someone else to bring the law again?
None of the Prophets quoted the literal scripture but they foretold the future
I said, "If you do not accept what the plain word of God says, you can make it say
whatever comes into your mind, twisted or not. Satan would be glad to assist
anyone pulling a supposed meaning out of thin air. The only solid ground we
have to stand on is the literal meaning of the Scriptures. The original
versions say what they mean."
> > Christ did not use the scripture as doctrine but Christ defended Himself with scripture against Satan.
> > Therefore are you saying that Christ was twisted in the things He spoke? Are you saying Paul was twisted in His thoughts?
Of course not, but some people twist the scriptures and make them say something that was not intended. Think about the cults.
Jesus is the eternal Son of God, the creator. He spoke 100% truth and expects us to believe what he said. Paul was an apostle. He wrote what God inspired him to write.
2Tim 3:16 (Green) says, "All Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, so that the man of God may be perfect, fully fitted to all good works."
In its original editions, Scripture was perfect, and should be taken literally whenever possible. Translations can have errors. When in doubt, look up the meanings of the original words. When obviously symbolic passages appear, we must try to figure out what they mean in light of the whole of Scripture. None will contradict Scripture.
> > Paul wrote what the Spirit said; therefore he did not rewrite the literal scripture.
Paul's writings are Scripture. He was taught by Jesus himself. Agape
From: Robert Anderson - Subject: Living Fossils
The article fails to mention my favorite living fossil, the common horseshoe crab. It is truly ancient by academic standards; by Biblical standards it's about 6000 years old. It is a living trilobite (Do you remember those from your junior high course in beginning paleontology/evolution propaganda? It had a prominent place among all the pictures of creepy crawly fossils. Academia, of course, is quite upset with the horseshoe crab and other living fossils because they've gone all these years without evolving. That's really cheeky of them, and, as the following article points out, throws sticks between the spokes of Darwinism. The following links provide interesting information on this living fossil.
From KI research enews May 27, 2014 Chuck missler
LAZARUS TAXA - LIVING FOSSILS TODAY
Whenever a creature considered extinct suddenly shows up living and swimming around, we should all pay attention - even if the life form is "just" a heat-loving plankton. The green unicellular species Dapsilidinium pastielsii was recently found in Southeast Asia after having been supposedly killed off during the Ice Ages, appearing in the tropical warmth of the Indo-Pacific Warm Pool. The tiny green dinoflagellate isn't alone. In April, a shrimping boat caught an 18-foot goblin shark off Key West. After taking pictures of the strange fish, the fishermen released the rare shark back to the water and eventually contacted National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Fisheries Service (NOAA) to let the scientists know. One other goblin shark was documented in 2002 in the Gulf of Mexico, but these fish are believed to go back 125 million years, and biologists know very little about them.
The goblin shark and D. pastielsii are just one of many "Lazarus taxa" - creatures once thought to be extinct, only to be "resurrected" by appearing as real living, breathing organisms long after having disappeared from the fossil record. The chipmunk-like Rugosodon eurasiaticus shows up in the fossil record 170 million and 35 million years ago, and yet was recently found running around China. It's a member of the multitberculates family, a group of early rodents long considered extinct. The aardvark is found in the fossil record about 55 million years ago looking almost exactly like it does today. The Laotian Rock Rat was found in 1996 after having been thought "dead" for 11 million years. The adorable chevrotain - or "mouse deer" - in southeast Asia today looks just like it did 20 million years ago.
These creatures are fun to find, like treasures long thought lost, but they also poke like sticks into the spokes of Darwinian evolution.
The Significant Coelacanth
In 1938, men fishing off the east coast of South Africa caught a peculiar fish that was identified as a coelacanth ("SEE-le-canth"). This find shocked the paleontological world, because the coelacanth was a fish thought to have died out with the dinosaurs at the end of the Cretaceous Period 65 million years ago. Additional specimens of the coelacanth have since been found in the waters of the Comoros, Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, and Madagascar.
Yet, while the coelacanth is believed to have reached its present form 400 million years ago, researchers studying the fish have observed it changing to adapt to its environment. That is, while the coelacanth supposedly hasn't changed much in the past 400 million years, there is still flexibility in its gene pool after all.
"We have thus been able to show that despite their slow evolutionary rate, coelacanths continue to develop and are potentially also able to adapt to new environmental conditions," Kathrin Lampert, researcher at the Ruhr-University Bochum in Germany, said.
It isn't as though the world hasn't changed a bit since the ancestors of today's coelacanths were petrified in mud. If the fish has had the genetic variability to change, it certainly has taken its time getting around to it. The Dapsilidinium pastielsiiwould also have been expected to change over its millions of years of life, even if its children found a refuge in a warm ocean pool.
Big Black Gaps
The fossil record hasn't given us a complete record of life on earth in a tidy series of layers, each containing neatly tagged representations of each type of animal that lived in a location at any time. There are gaps. The coelacanth shows up in the fossil record with the dinosaurs and then doesn't appear in more recent fossil layers. Yet it's still alive and swishing. It's been here all along, but its bones are only preserved in older layers. (How much older… is a question.)
To deal with the massive gaps in the evolutionary fossil record, Stephen Jay Gould and Niles Eldredge proposed the Punctuated Equilibria theory (Punk Eek to the irreverent) in 1972. They argued that evolution didn't occur gradually the way Darwin thought it did. Rather, they proposed that evolution took place in spurts. Since these changes were rare and since fossilization was a relatively rare phenomenon, evolutionists should expect gaps in the fossil record, they said.
At the same time, the coelacanth does show itself in the fossil record. So do the goblin shark and D. pastielsii. These aren't missing links; they are species we know once existed. Punk Eek and Gradualism both have a problem because they've proposed imaginary missing links that we just plain do not see at all. They also propose change over time, and when creatures show up unchanged after millions of years of existence, with a variation still available in their genetic code, that raises questions.
Fossils like these, as well as the Metasequoia, the Nightcap Oak, the Chacoan Peccary (a pig) or Mountain Pygmy Possum were all once thought to have died out millions of years ago, only to be "surprise!" found alive and well after all, relatively unchanged from the way their family members looked before they were locked in stone.
Paleontologists are hurting for missing links, and even the few they have are lined up on tenuous evidence. The coelacanth demonstrates the danger of paleontologists' making assumptions about the internal organs or DNA of creatures based on their skeletons.
Prior to its being found alive, the coelacanth had been considered a link between fish and land animals. COMMENT: Oh, that must have been embarrassing! The stupid bloody fish didn't have the good manners to conform with hypothesis. Paleontologists had suggested that the swim bladder of the coelacanth had turned into a lung which allowed it to breathe when it crawled out onto land. When a living coelacanth swim bladder was examined, though, it ruined that idea. The swim bladder was thin and filled with fatty tissue and in no position to act like a lung, no matter how much the scientists wanted the coelacanth's lobed fins to act like crawling arms.
Don't be confused. When scientists say life has "evolved," they are right. Families and genera of creatures do change over time. There were once marmot-like gophers with horns and giant sloths as large as VW busses. Yet, the gophers were still gophers and the sloths were still sloths, and on the whole were not so different from the same creatures we see today. Rather than showing a convenient series of evolutionary steps, the fossil record continually shows specific groups of creatures that display wide variety within their groups.
COMMENT: Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, about 4300 years ago, there was a really big flood that covered the whole earth ...
Thanks much for this article:
I was glad to see the pictures of the Solenodon, Aardvark, Monito del monte, Laotian Rock Rat, Chevrotain, Amami Rabbit, and Red Panda. They are new to me.
The Chevrotain, a mouse-deer, was a big surprise. I thought it was the size of a goat, but no, it is "an ungulate, tiny, weighing as little as just a few pounds (about the size of a rabbit)." I have a hard time imagining him that small. That explains the bug eyes though.
> > The article fails to mention my favorite living fossil, the common horseshoe crab. It is truly ancient by academic standards; by Biblical standards it's about 6000 years old. It is a living trilobite (Do you remember those from your junior high course in beginning paleontology/evolution propaganda?
I don't remember a class like that, but then I'm 85. That was long ago, and we moved around. I went to 4 different schools during 7th to 9th grade. I took Zoology in High School at Kingsport, TN, and we stuck to what was in the book.
> > In 1938, men fishing off the east coast of South Africa caught a peculiar fish that was identified as a coelacanth ("SEE-le-canth"). This find shocked the paleontological world, because the coelacanth was a fish thought to have died out with the dinosaurs at the end of the Cretaceous Period 65 million years ago. Additional specimens of the coelacanth have since been found in the waters of the Comoros, Kenya, Tanzania, Mozambique, and Madagascar.
I watch National Geographic Wild a lot. Of course, Nat'l Geographic teaches evolution, but I ignore it, and watch the wildlife in action. It is better than taking a trip to see them. The photographers might wait four days to see what we see in a few minutes.
I saw a diver go down into a cave and find a live coelacanth. It didn't dart off as I expected. It stayed there, almost as if frozen in place, so he got a good picture of it. It was probably wondering what kind of thing that diver was. It was so far down, not many try such, and he had on a lot of extra gear. It was a dangerous dive, not something I would encourage anyone to try, but I got to see a live coelacanth. I appreciate what they do. I think I saw the goblin shark too. I'm glad they tag large fish so they can trace their movements and then let them go.
They have a warehouse full of film. I'm always glad to see something new. They rerun things a lot, but I'm glad to see what they do run that I haven't seen. Agape
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