Pro and Con 1834

Posted 1-18-15

A WEDDING-RING ECLIPSE TOOK PLACE APRIL 29 LAST YEAR. I WAS HOPING
I WOULD FIND ONE ON THE DAY OF THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, BUT
THE NEXT TWO WILL BE SEPTEMBER 1, 2016 AND FEBRUARY 26, 2017.

AN INTERESTING POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: "Qumran could really be where Jeremiah hid the treasures of the temple," By Sherry Vance (11 Jan 2015)

"Important News!!!!! http://119ministries.com/

"I receive news from a website called http://119ministries.com, and below you will see the press release they released just yesterday. It is very exciting....basically they are asking people to petition the Israeli government to allow a proper excavation of Qumran (where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found) because they believe the Copper Scroll (housed in the Shrine of the Book Museum in Jerusalem"...

Note: Please read the article. Just maybe Temple treasures have been hidden at Qumran National Park located in the west Bank 10 miles south of Jericho. It is a ruin from the Second Temple days on the northwest shore of the Dead Sea, between limestone cliffs of the Judean desert and the sea. The Dead-Sea Scrolls were found in caves near there in 1947.

"Qumran was abandoned about the time of the Roman incursion of 68 C.E., two years before the collapse of Jewish self-government in Judea and the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 C.E." http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/Community/communit.html

I found this on the Internet.
"The Ruins of Qumran: http://mosaic.lk.net/g-qumran.html

"The site of Qumran ruins (Khirbet Qumran) had been occupied at various times in antiquity. At a low level were found the remains of walls and pottery from Iron Age II (8-7th centuries BCE). A deep circular cistern also belongs to this period (centuries later it was incorporated in an elaborate system of aqueducts and reservoirs). Probably this was the site known as the Biblical "Ir ha-Melah" - City of Salt.

"In approximately 130 BCE new occupants cleared the circular cistern, added two rectangular cisterns, constructed a few rooms, and installed two pottery kilns. 30 years later two- and three-storey buildings were added, and an elaborated water-collecting system was constructed (incorporated the earlier ones) consisting of cisterns connected by channels and supplied by aqueduct from a dam. There is a vast evidence that the manuscripts discovered in the Qumran caves belonged to the library of the occupants of the site in this period - a small hermit community referred as the Dead Sea Sect .

"During the Jewish War the place was apparently stormed by Romans and ruined, and then occupied by a Roman garrison for 20 years. Bar-Kokhba fighters occupied the ruins in 132-135 CE.

"The main building on the site occupied about 37 square meters, constructed of large undressed stones, and with a strong tower in the northwestern corner. On the west side is a long room used apparently as an eating-room. In the adjacent smaller room over a thousand of ceramic vessels were found. They may have been manufactured on the spot, since the excavations brought to light the best preserved pottery thus far found in the Land of Israel.

"A first-storey room in the southwest part of the building was evidently furnished as a writing-room. Flour mills, a stable, a laundry and various workshops were also uncovered. The occupants apparently aimed to be as self-sufficient as possible. There were apparently no sleeping quarters"...

SHERRY VANCE'S 2ND POST, ABOUT HER NEW TIMELINE, IS ALSO INTERESTING

Sherry Vance (11 Jan 2015): http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2015/jan.htm

I am so glad she tried to figure out the timeline according to the Jubilee Years. She figured the Jubilees the correct way too. There are 7 Sabbatical Years, then the Jubilee Year is Year One of the next Sabbatical Cycle. Otherwise, the Sabbatical Years would get out of alignment.

Sherry thinks the Rapture will be Sept. 13, 2015, the Eve of Trumpets. There will be a Partial Solar Eclipse that day, and the last Total Lunar Eclipse of the last Tetrad that falls on feast days for at least 400 years will follow on Tabernacles, Sept. 28, 2015.

Sherry said,
"2015-2016 - 1st year in new cycle - BEGINNING OF THE 70TH WEEK
* I believe that on the eve of Rosh HaShanah, September 13, 2015, during the darkness of the new moon, the full number of Gentiles will have come in and the Church Age of Grace will end, and the Resurrection of the dead-in-Christ and the Rapture of the living believers will take place, fulfilling the first Fall Feast, the Feast of Trumpets....and it will happen at the very 'Last Trump' - the longest and loudest of the 100 that are sounded at that time." (emphasis is mine)

To me, there seem to be two Raptures, the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE of 1 Thess 4:13-18 and the LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE of I Cor. 15:51-54.

The Great Tribulation is to be shortened. To me, it looks like the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE could be on April 2, 2015, Thu. Nisan 13, 5775 (the anniversary of the Crucifixion on Thu. Nisan 13, 3790) and the LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE could be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 13/14, 2015.

FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, NO MENTION OF IMMORTALITY

I Thess 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren (i.e., believers), concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (lit., precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD (i.e., the first trump): and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, ALL RAPTURED SAINTS BECOME IMMORTAL

I Cor 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (i.e., including Paul) shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

"* THIRD WEEK OF JACOB'S TROUBLE BEGINS"

I think Jacob's trouble is one literal day, Jesus' Long Day.

Jer 30:7 says, "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

"* THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL BEGINS
* ISRAEL AND THE WORLD NOW ENTER THE DAY OF THE LORD!
It may be helpful to think of these next 7 years 2015-2022 as one complete "day", or evening & morning: the night Jacob wrestles with the Lord, and in the morning he lifts up his eyes as he (ISRAEL) recognizes The Messiah and is redeemed. But much will take place during that "evening & morning" constituting "The DAY of the Lord" before Israel's reconciliation & redemption takes place."

I think the great and terrible Day of the Lord will be one long day, Jesus' Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day is a type.

Joel 2:11 says, "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

Joel 2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."

Rev. 6:12 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood".

Joshua 10:11 says, "And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

Rev 8:11,12 says, "And the name of the star (Heb. aster, i.e., Satan's asteroid) is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

Rev. 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon, Iraq) and whom hast thou here (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (i.e., Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood) 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Sherry also said,
"THE YEAR OF JUBILEE
Jesus Christ's Second Coming
fulfilled on the 2nd Fall Feast
The Day of Atonement / Yom Kippur

"* The Feast of Tabernacles is from October 10-16, with the 8th great day on October 17, 2022.
"The Third and Last Fall Feast will be fulfilled and the Millennial Kingdom will commence!"

To me, the Jubilee will start Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016, the anniversary of the Resurrection on April 9 in 30 AD.

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Marilyn Agee

many articles - as Marilyn Agee's - have time calculations based on a specific calendar. But as much as I momentaryly can see there are many imponderabilities concerning calendars. For example the current hebrew (jewish) calendar is said to be altered in early centuries AD (reason?). There is a site http://www.torahcalendar.com/ which states we are now in year 6000 from creation. Anyone with insight here to clarify the calendar problems? Blessings, Herold

MY REPLY

I haven't worried about the "6000 from creation" yet, but have my Bible Chronology on my Web Site, so can do it when I get time. Today, trying to figure out a possible Rapture date comes first in my mind.

I have verified that the Torah Calendar can be trusted for BC 6 through 30 AD dates.

Note: For our times, I use HebCal.
Astronomy programs can be trusted more than most modern calendar programs. Among many other things, to help me determine the date of Jesus' birth, I used YourSky to determine when the sign of the Moon being under Virgo's feet on Tishri 1 appeared in the sky. Only Sept. 4, 5 BC fit.

Herod died between the partial lunar eclipse of March 13 and Passover in 4 BC. That year cannot be changed. Coins prove that his sons started to rule in 4 BC.

Calendar Converter, and all similar ones I have run across, miss the Hebrew date in 30 AD by 2 days. Therefore, if I am at Calendar Converter, I can add two days to the Hebrew date and trust the Julian answer.

When Hillel II added some postponements in the Hebrew Calendar for convenience sake in 358 AD, like not having a feast day next to a Sabbath day, he caused the difference in our days if the Gregorian Calendar is extrapolated backwards. Agape

MY REPLY TO AN INCOMING EMAIL (OMITTED)

> > We are close to agreement, but consider this: Jesus rose "EARLY ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK". Therefore He rose soon after sunset on the Saturday Sabbath which was then Sunday. For Him to have been in the grave for three days he would have had to go into the grave at sunset Wednesday. Therefore He was crucified on Wednesday and buried at sunset Wednesday. sunset wed to sunset thu = day #1, sunset thu to sunset fri = day #2, sunset fri to sunset sat = Day #3 .

To get the nights and days right, we have to keep in mind that for Hebrew dates, there are first 12 hours of night, then 12 hours of day. Otherwise, we can lose a day in our thinking. Even the Jews have done this. They call Nisan 15 Passover. If the blood hadn't been on their door frames at midnight Nisan 14, their firstborn would have died.

Nisan 14, night then day, is Passover.
Nisan 15, night then day, is Unleavened Bread.
Nisan 16, night then day, is Firstfruits.

The Crucifixion was on Nisan 13, 3790, Thursday, April 6, 30 AD (Julian), the Preparation of the Passover. Jesus died about 3 PM, when the priests began to kill the Passover lambs.

The priests had many lambs to process, and all of them had to be roasted and eaten before midnight, Nisan 14, so they had to start early. On normal days, they sacrificed a lamb at 9 in the morning and another at 3 in the afternoon, so they started killing the Passover lambs at 3 PM on the Preparation of the Passover.

Mt 12:40 says, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." In the Hebrew 3790, 30 AD Julian, the 3 days and 3 nights were:

Thursday, April 6: Nisan 13, day 1
Friday, April 7: Nisan 14, night 1, day 2
Saturday, April 8: Nisan 15, night 2, day 3
Sunday, April 9: Nisan 16, night 3

SUNDAY WAS THE THIRD DAY "SINCE" THE CRUCIFIXION ON THURSDAY

Luke 24:20,21 says, "And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day (Sunday) is the third day since these things were done."

He was crucified on Thursday.
Friday was the 1st day since.
Saturday was the 2nd day since.
Sunday was the 3rd day since.

Hope this helps. Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: I USED TO BELIEVE IN A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

Marilyn: please think about this.

{I USED TO BELIEVE IN A PRE-TRIB RAPTURE
From the 1960s to recently, I too thought the First-Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:13-18 would be Pre-Trib. I read books out of the Seminary Collection at BIOLA for 7 years, so you know what I thought about the Rapture in those days.}

Have you ever given any thought to this: if you were deceived ALL of those years with pre-tribulation rapture, then how much more doctrine have you been deceived with? All that I am saying is that wrong doctrine has the people of God looking at all of the wrong things. Wrong doctrine sends a signal to mind to search for truth in all the wrong places, in your next quote proves that your mind sent you to the wrong places. {When I got a computer, I found Dr. Thomas Ice's Pre-Trib Research Center. I agreed with what he said about the Pre-Trib Rapture. He too came out of Dallas Theological Seminary, as did others that teach the Pre-Trib Rapture. I went to hear R.B. Thieme preach. I borrowed tapes from Berachah Church and from my own church at the time, Rolling Hills Covenant, when Chuck Swindoll was pastor.}

{I wanted to learn as much as possible about the Bible and the upcoming Rapture.} This quote says you were indoctrinated with MUCH wrong doctrine. You used to believe in pre-tribulation rapture, everywhere you went if they did not teach pre-tribulation rapture you disagreed with them, and you went out searching everywhere trying to prove them wrong. No matter who it was that came to you with truth about the pre-tribulation rapture YOU rejected them and tried to prove them wrong. Christ Himself could have came to you with truth about the pre-tribulation rapture and you would have rejected Him and tried to prove Him wrong.

That is the way ALL wrong doctrine is, it is forever trying to make the gospel truth into a lie, NO matter who presents the truth.

For that reason people everywhere are forever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of truth, 2Timothy 3:7.

Paul wrote 2Timothy 3:7 because he knew that wrong doctrine would keep people studying trying to prove they are right: making the truth into a lie.

MY REPLY

I just keep studying what the Bible says. It is the truth.

For instance, we can be sure that these things are coming on this Earth.

Luke 21:26-28 says, "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., Jesus Christ, Isa. 53:1); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (chatsab, split) Rahab (i.e., Satan's planet is now the Asteroid Belt), and wounded the dragon (Satan)?"

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth (chaqaq, to hack) an habitation for himself in a rock (i.e., in the asteroid Wormwood)? 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Rev 8:10,11 says, "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood (meaning bitter); and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Since these things are coming upon this planet, what should we do to prepare ourselves to be sure we get out of here before Wormwood hits Earth and turns it upside down?

Joh 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

In Joh_8:24, Jesus said, "if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

That would be the worst thing that could happen to us.

We can be wrong about other things, but we can't be wrong about this. Our eternal destiny depends on this.

Rom 10:9-13 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

When we believe, we are baptized with the Holy Spirit. He guides us from that day on.

Joh_16:13 says, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

I now believe that the First-Trump Rapture will come Mid-Trib. If I am wrong about this, it will not change my eternal destiny. I am secure in Christ, and am trusting the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth.

Rev 12:7-14 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverence, salvation), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time (i.e., the shortened Great Tribulation). 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place (i.e., Petra), where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (i.e., the last 3.5 years of the Tribulation), from the face of the serpent."

Dan 12:1 says, "And at that time (‘the time of the end', 11:35) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be (i.e., after the First-Trump Rapture) a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (i.e., Mid-Trib) thy people shall be delivered (malat, escape, leap out), every one that shall be found written in the book."

How does that sound to you? Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: spring rapture

> >i have enjoyed watching your website since 1998. i want to thank you for your faithfulness in waiting for our LORD JESUS CHRIST. i believe the rapture will occur in the spring because of genesis ch 18 verse 14 and also because of 10 nisan when our Lord entered jeruselum, I feel the antichrist might try to imitate Christ and make his appearance at the wailing wall that day. so I lean toward 10 nisan for the rapture. thanks again for your work. i encourage you to keep it up and hang in there because our LORD will rapture us soon, your brother in Christ

Thanks for your faithfulness. I am sure hoping that the First-Trump Rapture will take place in the spring, this spring, on Nisan 13 (anniversary of the Crucifixion) or 16 (anniversary of the Resurrection)....

Gen 18:13,14 says, "And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old? 14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son."

What does it mean, "according to the time of life"? Tishri 1?

I am expecting Jesus to return on the first day of the Jubilee Year, Nisan 1, 5776, Thu. April 9, 2016. Agape

   PC INDEX   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at: mjagee@verizon.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508

© 1996-2013, Marilyn J. Agee