Pro and Con 1839

Posted 2-5-15

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Bruce Warner (29 Feb 2012) "AN IMPORTANT 'CLUE IN SCRIPTURE' POINTING TO 'THE DAY' OF OUR RAPTURE"

Notice the similarity in comparing these two Scriptures in the use of the words "great multitude" and "palm branches". These are the ONLY TWO Scriptures, in all of the Bible, which contain BOTH the words "great multitude" and "palm branches". I DO NOT THINK THE LINK IS ACCIDENTAL!

The first Scripture is describing the day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the colt of a donkey on the fourth day before the Passover to fulfill the prophecy. The Day of Palms is now commonly called Palm Sunday. The Biblical date of Passover is always Nisan 14, and the fourth day preceeding Passover is Nisan 11 which is the Day of Palms.

John 12:12-13
"The next day a GREAT MULTITUDE that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took BRANCHES OF PALM TREES and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord ! The King of Israel !"

The next Scripture is ALSO written by John:

Revelation 7:9-10
"After these things I looked, and behold, a GREAT MULTITUDE which no one could count, of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with PALM BRANCHES in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb !"

The "great multitude" in heaven holding "palm branches" is the raptured Church including the Christians who made-up the "great multitude" with "palm branches" who went out to meet Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a colt of a donkey that day. The reason for the "palm branches" on that day Jesus rode into Jerusalem was to put down on the dusty road ahead of Jesus as a sort of pavement for Him to ride on as an honor to Him.

Ask yourself, why are the "great multitude" in heaven holding "palm branches" ? This is to show us, the Christian readers of the Scriptures, the connection between the raptured Church in heaven and that day Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Nisan 11. Scripture indicates, in many places, that the rapture will take place in the First-month which is Nisan. I believe that these Scriptures tell us that day of our rapture will be Nisan 11th which is the Day of Palms.

According to Your Word, come Lord Jesus! Bruce Warner

MY REPLY

You said that Nisan 11 is the Day of Palms, i.e., Palm Sunday.

According to the Torah Calendar http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y30M1 (which is the only calendar program I know of that is correct in 30 AD), Nisan 9 was Palm Sunday.

Joh 12:1 says, "Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

1. Nisan 8, 3790, was Sat. April 1, 3790, when Jesus arrived in Bethany
2. Nisan 9, 3790, was Sun. April 2, 3790, Palm Sunday
3. Nisan 10, 3790, was Mon. April 3, 3790, when Jesus cursed the fig tree
4. Nisan 11, 3790, was Tue. April 4, 3790, when they saw the fig tree had dried up
5. Nisan 12, 3790, was Wed. April 5, 3790, when Jesus was anointed for burial
6. Nisan 13, 3790, was Thu. April 6, 3790, Preparation Day (Crucifixion)
Nisan 14, 3790, was Fri. April 7, 3790, Passover (Julian Day 1,466,296)
Nisan 15, 3790, was Sat. April 8, 3790, Unleavened Bread
NIsan 16, 3790, was Sun. April 9, 3790, Firstfruits (Resurrection)

Luk_24:21 says, "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

"Sunday was the third day since Thursday - 1. Friday, 2. Saturday, 3. Sunday. Agape

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: Bruce Warner (29 Feb 2012: "IT'S ALWAYS 'FORTY-TWO MONTHS' FROM..."

It is always forty-two months from the 'first-month' of Nisan of any year to the 'seventh-month' of Tishri three and one-half years later. The reign of the anti-Christ is forty-two months long. I believe Scripture tells us that the forty-two month reign of the anti-Christ will begin on the day of our rapture in the 'first-month' of Nisan and end forty-two months later at the Second Coming of the Lord in the seventh-month of Tishri during the Fall Feasts of the Lord.

The month of Nisan is always 30 days in length.

YEAR NISAN 1

2012 March 25
2013 March 13
2014 April 1
2015 March 21
2016 April 9
2017 March 27
2018 March 17

Come Lord Jesus! Bruce Warner

MY REPLY

Your "2016 April 9" is the correct date for the first day, Nisan 1, of the Jubilee, Regnal and Sacred Years. I think it is the most likely date for the Second Advent. Two Raptures must take place before that. We are getting close. Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, Re: I WILL WRITE A $1,000.00 CHECK TO ANYONE WHO CAN

From: B Warner
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2015 8:22 AM
To: mjagee@verizon.net
Subject: Re: I WILL WRITE A $1,000.00 CHECK TO ANYONE WHO CAN

BOTH 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 AND 1Thessalonians 4:16 are BOTH speaking of the ONE AND ONLY RAPTURE. Here is how it will happen : The trumpet of God spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 will SOUND TWO TIMES ON THE ONE DAY OF THE RAPTURE .

HERE IS THE FIRST TRUMP: "For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible "

HERE IS THE LAST TRUMP: "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and we shall be changed."

ON THE ONE AND ONLY RAPTURE DAY the FIRST TRUMP calls forth the dead already incorruptible. THE LAST TRUMP changes the living to incorruptible in the twinkling of an eye. There is only ONE RAPTURE for the Gentiles, but the trumpet of God will sound TWO TIMES THAT ONE DAY.
YBIC, Bruce Warner

MY REPLY

> > It was John, the Revelator ALONE, who was called to heaven in Rev 4:1 to record the events of the Book of Revelation according to Rev 1:1-2 "TO HIS SERVANT, JOHN". Rev 4 does not describe the rapture of the church. The rapture of the church is then AGAIN spoken of in Revelation 12:10-12 on the same day Satan is cast down.

How can it be AGAIN spoken of in Rev 12:10-12 if it wasn't spoken of before that?

I agree with you that the Rapture is indicated as being Mid-Trib in Rev. 12. We go up as Satan comes down.

Rev 12:7-12 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now (arti, through the idea of suspension, just now, this day) is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverance, salvation), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

In Daniel 7:25, a "time" is a year. The "time and times and the dividing of time" represents 3.5 years. It seems possible that Satan will only have a shortened year left.

Dan 7:12-14 says, "As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season (i.e., summer) and time (year). 13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

The kingdom of Jesus seems to start on the day of the Last-Trump Rapture, the Day of God's Wrath, the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015. Like Solomon, Jesus will purge his kingdom at its beginning. The Sign of the Son of Man would be seen sitting on his throne in the sky that day. Christ would first be seated on his throne, then be seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven.

2Co 5:10 says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."

Just maybe the Judgment Seat of Christ will be Sept. 14, 2015.

Zec 12:3 says, "And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it."

Zec 12:9,10 says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced (i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn."

Zec 13:1,2 says, "In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. 2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit (i.e., the devil, Satan) to pass out of the land."

Luk 9:42 says, "And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father."

If the First-Trump Rapture is on April 2, 2015, Thursday, Nisan 13, 5775 (a Sabbatical Year), the anniversary of the Crucifixion on Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790, the Second Advent may be on Sat. Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016, the anniversary of the Resurrection on April 9, 30 AD. That will be the first day of the Jubilee, Regnal, and Sacred years.

The coming Jubilee would be announced on the Day of Atonement this year after the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath, the great and terrible Day of the Lord, the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 5776.

AT THE FIRST TRUMP RAPTURE, WE ARE NOT ACTUALLY IMMORTAL YET, BUT WE ARE PROMISED THAT WE WILL BE WITH THE LORD FOREVER

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

AT THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, ALL ACTUALLY BECOME IMMORTAL, INCLUDING PAUL

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; WE shall not all sleep, but WE shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption (i.e., at either Rapture), and this mortal must put on immortality (i.e., only after the last Rapture) 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

The FIRST RAPTURE is the "COME UP HITHER"

of Rev. 4:1 and the "RISE" of Rev. 11:1. The LAST RAPTURE is the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev. 11:12.

> > The FIRST time the rapture is spoken of in the Book of Revelation is in Rev 6:12 during the events of the 6th seal.

Rev 6:12 does not mention the Rapture. It says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood"

We find out that there is a Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath in Rev. 6:17 and Rev. 7:14,15.

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:14,15 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

Those caught up in the First-Trump Rapture are already wearing white robes.

Those caught up in the Last-Trump Rapture have to wash their robes in the blood of Christ.

THERE HAVE TO BE TWO RAPTURES, BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO GROUPS OF VIRGINS, THE WISE AND THE FOOLISH (THOSE LEFT BEHIND THE FIRST TIME)

The wise virgins are caught up in the first Rapture. The 5 foolish virgins are caught up in the last Rapture after they have confessed their sins, i.e., washed their robes in the blood of Christ.

Speaking of the First-Trump Rapture, Mat 25:1-12 says, "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out (lit., going out). 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."

Mat_24:21 says, "For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE."

Rev_2:22 says, "Behold, I will cast her (the church of Thyatira) into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds."

Rev_7:14 says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

THE WISE VIRGINS WILL BE CAUGHT UP IN THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE. THE FOOLISH VIRGINS WILL BE CAUGHT UP IN THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE.

THE FIRST "COME UP HITHER"

IS THE FIRST TRUMP RAPTURE OF SAINTS "OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION,"

AND ALL THESE SAINTS SING THE NEW SONG AT THE LAST "COME UP HITHER"

ONLY THE 144,000 ISRAELITES CAN SING THE NEW SONG

Rev. 5:8-10 says, "...saints. 9 And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

Rev 14:1-5 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins (i.e., foolish virgins that have wised up). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Rev 10:11 says, "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

Therefore the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev. 4:1 is the same as the "RISE" in Rev. 11:1, the First-Trump Rapture.

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE, AND MEASURE THE TEMPLE OF GOD (we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit/God), and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."
THE SECOND "COME UP HITHER"

IS THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, WHEN ONLY THE 144,000 ISRAELITES OF REV. 7 CAN SING THE NEW SONG

At the same hour, there will be a great earthquake, because Satan's asteroid Wormwood and another asteroid as big as a mountain will hit Earth (Rev. 8:8-11).

Rev 11:11-13 describes the Last-Trump Rapture. It says, "And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE TAKES PLACE ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH

Rev 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:3-4 says, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

Rev 7:9-17 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. 13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

The First-Trump Rapture for the wise virgins takes place at the end of the 3.5 year TRIBULATION. They will be caught up MID-TRIB.

Rev 12:10-12 says, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverance, salvation), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Of the Church of Thyatira, Rev_2:22 says, "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (i.e., join) with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE FOR THE FOOLISH VIRGINS TAKES PLACE ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH AT THE END OF THE SHORTENED GREAT TRIBULATION (Rev. 6:17; 7:9-14).

> > BOTH 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 AND 1Thessalonians 4:16 are BOTH speaking of the ONE AND ONLY RAPTURE. Here is how it will happen : The trumpet of God spoken of in 1 Thessalonians 4:16 will SOUND TWO TIMES ON THE ONE DAY OF THE RAPTURE .

I think those are two different Raptures.

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the CAMPS (plural). 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

FIRST TRUMPET

Rev 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (first stone in the breastplate, i.e., this is Jesus, the first and the last): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's ring system, Eze. 1:27, 28) round about the throne (i.e., of the God/man, Eze. 1:1,26), in sight like unto an emerald. 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty ELDERS sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Rev_4:6 says, "And before the throne (on Saturn, Eze. 1:1,26-28) there was a sea of glass like unto crystal (krustallos, ice)".

ON THE DAY OF THE LORD, THE LAST TRUMPET WILL BE BLOWN BY THE LORD

Joe_2:1 says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand".

Zec_9:14-16 says, "And the LORD shall be seen over them (i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. 15 The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar. 16 And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land."

1Co_15:52-54 says, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Agape

   PC INDEX   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at: mjagee@verizon.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508

© 1996-2013, Marilyn J. Agee