Pro and Con 1841

Posted 2-13-15

A BABY AARDVARK, ONE OF GOD'S UNUSUAL CRITTERS

A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: "Signs, Shemitahs, Tetrads, Comets and Eclipses."

JW (http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2015/feb_1_2015.htm)

...We understand the importance of 7s and multiples thereof in the scriptures. Most of us have read Jonathon Cahn's work and Mark Biltzs, as well as Malcolm Isted's correction of eido in Matthew 24:36. We've learned about the importance of the Feasts, First-fruits, the latter rain in the spring, Passover, the hope for the rapture on Trumpets, and the importance of using the Biblical calendar, but could there be something we have missed. Could there be two raptures, one secret for the bride, and one on the Feast of Trumpets?

Signs, we are told many, many times in the Bible to "watch" for our Messiahs return, and when you correct for the "eido effect" we understand the true meaning of "not knowing the day or the hour", "until now." And those of us watching are promised a Crown of Righteousness, 2 Timothy 4:8.

On the nights of July 16 -22, 1994, the whole world was amazed as 21 pieces of the comet Shoemaker-Levy-9, previously broken apart by the enormous gravity of Jupiter, slammed into the gas giant causing 21 humongous fireballs seen from earth. It was a spectacular display for everyone, but especially for astronomers, who never expected fireballs from the hits.

21 fragments hit Jupiter over 7 days that could easily be seen from Earth with small telescopes. A sign............ perhaps?

July 16th, 1994 was the 9th of AV. 21 hits over 7 days starting on the night of the 9th of Av, a sign, you be the judge?

All of you understand the 9th of Av, in Jewish history, with both the first and second temples being destroyed along with many more historic events, all very terrible for the Jewish people.

So 1994 + 21 (years for days) = 2015,,,,,,the 9th of Av, 2015??? A day of trouble for Israel in 2015 or is there something else?

The above was posted before but not the following. If it has been I apologize.

So I'll get to it, everything has to be on God's calendar, so comet SL-9,, 21 hits over 7 days. What if those 21 days were for years, Biblical years of 360 days?

21 X 360 = 7560 then add 7560 days to July 16th, 1994 and you get March 28th, 2015, the eve of Palm Sunday, Nisan 10. Significant, perhaps? You be the judge.

Palm Sunday is Nisan 10, the day Joshua delivered the Jews into the Promised land, and you all know Palm Sunday was the day our precious Messiah rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and announced himself as King, the children were waving palm branches and chanting. Jesus wept. Is that not significant, Jesus weeping? For it was prophesied to the very day, yet few took notice. If He told us when He was coming the first time, does it not follow He would tell us when He is coming again?

We are told to watch, and we are told the books would be unsealed and knowledge would be increased in the latter days. Are we not there? 5775 corrected for the Jewish sages 240 year error, intentional or otherwise, we may well be near 6000 years from creation, the time for the 1000 year reign of Christ.

So in review, we have:

Total Solar eclipse March 20th, 2015, Nisan 1. New Year
Palm Sunday March 29th, 2015, Nisan 10
Total Lunar eclipse Passover April 4th, 2015, Nisan 15. Third in the tetrad.

Leland Earl's "Three Comings of Jesus". Could he be right?
http://www.firstloveministry.com/Earls/index.htm

Researching this led me to an astronomy site that told the miraculous story of how Shoemaker and Levy spotted the comet in the first place. Those who are interested can Google it to read the rest of the story.
As always, watching, and looking up, JW

MY REPLY

> > comet SL-9,, 21 hits over 7 days. What if those 21 days were for years, Biblical years of 360 days?

> > 21 X 360 = 7560 then add 7560 days to July 16th, 1994 and you get March 28th, 2015, the eve of Palm Sunday, Nisan 10. Significant, perhaps? You be the judge.

> > Palm Sunday is Nisan 10, the day Joshua delivered the Jews into the Promised land, and you all know Palm Sunday was the day our precious Messiah rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and announced himself as King

> > Could there be two raptures, one secret for the bride, and one on the Feast of Trumpets?

I think so. There will be a First-Trump Rapture (I Thess 4:16,17) for the Bride of Christ, and a Last-Trump Rapture (I Cor 15:51-54) for the Friends of the Bridegroom.

I could be wrong about the dates, but we are approaching the time of end-time events. I expect the Second Advent on Sat. April 9, 2016, Nisan 1, 5776. It is the first day of the only Jubilee Year in my lifetime. It is the first day of the Regnal and Sacred years too.

Fri, 20 March 2015 = 29th of Adar, 5775, Total Solar Eclipse, though not an Annular Eclipse, the glow around the Moon suggests a wedding ring
Sat, 21 March 2015 = 1st of Nisan, 5775
Sun, 22 March 2015 = 2nd of Nisan, 5775
Mon, 23 March 2015 = 3rd of Nisan, 5775
Tue, 24 March 2015 = 4th of Nisan, 5775
Wed, 25 March 2015 = 5th of Nisan, 5775
Thu, 26 March 2015 = 6th of Nisan, 5775
Fri, 27 March 2015 = 7th of Nisan, 5775
Sat, 28 March 2015 = 8th of Nisan, 5775
Sun, 29 March 2015 = 9th of Nisan, 5775, Palm Sunday, my husband's birthday
Mon, 30 March 2015 = 10th of Nisan, 5775
Tue, 31 March 2015 = 11th of Nisan, 5775
Wed, 1 April 2015 = 12th of Nisan, 5775
Thu, 2 April 2015 = 13th of Nisan, 5775, Crucifixion Anniversary. Ed visited me in his celestial body Apr. 2, 2012, probably indicating that we would be reunited April 2, so I am expecting the First-Trump Rapture Thu, 2 April 2015
Fri, 3 April 2015 = 14th of Nisan, 5775, Passover
Sat, 4 April 2015 = 15th of Nisan, 5775, Unleavened Bread, Total Lunar Eclipse, 3rd of the last Tetrad of our times
Sun, 5 April 2015 = 16th of Nisan, 5775, Firstfruits

Moses was to make 2 silver trumpets. Nu. 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., elders, Rev. 4:1-4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

John, an apostle, was caught up at the same time the other patriarchs and apostles of Israel were caught up.

In the Preview of The Revelation of Jesus Christ, John wrote in Rev 1:9-11, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last."

April 2, 2015 is on Thursday, the day Jesus was Crucified. Joh_19:14 says, "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" The Preparation of the Passover was Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790, April 6, 30 AD, Julian Day 1,466,295. That was on the anniversary of the original Fast of Esther (Esther 4:16). (http://www.torahcalendar.com/Calendar.asp?YM=Y30M1).

The first trumpet will be blown on Nisan 1, because it is the first of the month. The last trumpet will be blown on Tishri 1, because it is the first of the month and a feast day.

To me, the Last-Trump Rapture and the Day of God's Wrath seem likely on Sept. 14, 2015, the Feast of Trumpets. Agape

I FEEL SORRY FOR THE POPE, AND THOSE HE MISLEADS

Pope Francis has said that a personal relationship with Jesus is very dangerous and harmful, that Jesus is not divine, just a man. He also said that atheists who do good are "redeemed."

Boy, will he find out.

In John 14:6, Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Joh 1:1-3, 12-14 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us".

Joh 3:16-18 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Act 4:10-12 says, "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Rom 10:9-13 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

The Pope plans to arrive in the US Sept 22, visit New York, Washington DC and Philadelphia, then leave the evening of the 27th.

For him to pick the evening of the 27th is quite remarkable.

The Last Total Lunar Eclipse of the last Tetrad of our times (September 27/28, 2015) a Super-Moon event, will begin the evening of Sept. 27 at 11 PM EDT.

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Apostacy means falling away and NOT rapture

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2015/jovial21-1.htm
Jovial (1 Feb 2015)
"2 Thess 2:3 and the meaning of "APOSTACIA""
Almost anytime someone alleges they have "PROOF" from the "original Greek" that the rapture is pre-trib, or mid-trib, or whatever, they are probably wrong, because not only is there nothing in it that settles all doubt, but by and large, the overwhelming percentage of Christians in Greece do not believe in a pre-trib rapture. It's mostly an American Protestant thing.

2 Thess 2:3 says, "or that day shall not come except there come an APOSTACY (apostacia) first" (2 Thess 2:3)

The Greek word "apostacia" means exactly what it looks like in English; "Apostacy". Simple fact it;

Greeks understand this word to mean "apostacy" / "rebellion" / etc, not a physical displacement of one's body. I will prove this below. Its used several times in Scripture, all of which means "apostacy". I will show this below too.

We are told that an apostacy will come before the end times. Matthew 24 talks about SEVERAL types of Apostacies;

"nation shall rise against nation" (Matt 24:7)
"Then shall many be offended, and shall BETRAY one another.." (Matt 24:10)
"Many false prophets shall rise and deceive many " (Matt 24:11)
"because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall
endure unto the end, the same shall be saved" (Matt 24:12-13)
So here, there are several forms of apostacy being discussed, but the last one is
probably the one that matters; people turning away from the faith.

How APOSTACY is used ELSEWHERE in Scripture

People who try to allege that "Apostacia" means "rapture" always want to ignore the fact that "apostacia" is used several times in scripture, and it ALWAYS means "apostacy" / "rebel" / etc, and makes no sense if you replace the translation with "rapture". Here are some examples;

"they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to FORESAKE (apostasion) Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs" (Acts 21:21) Translating "apostacia" as "rapture" here generates a good hearty laugh. Can you imagine someone standing up and saying, "Hey all you Gentiles, rapture Moses!"

It's used in the LXX in several places including;
Josh 22:22 "He knoweth, and Israel he shall know; if it be in rebellion (?????=apostacia in LXX)"
2 Chron 29:19 " king Ahaz in his reign did cast away in his transgression (apostacia in LXX)"
Jer 2:19 "Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee:"
The Greek version of Wikipedia has a page defining "apostacia", and no where on it is the concept of the rapture discussed. Keep in mind that ANY Greek speaker could edit the page to add "rapture" into the discussion if he felt like that was some sort of serious omission, but not one person has chosen to "fix" that "problem".

Googling "Apostacia" in Greek

I put "ap?stas?a" into Google once (in the past) in unicode and got 113,000 web pages. Most were Greek web pages from Greek speakers. a small number were in English trying to analyze a Greek word. When I put both the Greek words for "apostacy" and "rapture" (apostacia and arpage) into Google, I got a whopping 3 Greek web pages, none of which talked about the rapture. The laws of chance would lead me to suspect I'd get at least a few web pages that would switch from one topic to the next, and thereby have both words in the same web page. But nope. It appears that 113,000 Greek speaking web pages from people who speak Greek can get posted using the word "ap?stas?a" and not a single one of them has the topic of the rapture even on the radar screen. So much for those claiming "the original Greek" proves this word means, "rapture."

Just to ensure I hadn't goofed, I put "apostacy" and "Jesus" in (In Greek unicode, of course) and got 32,000 Greek speaking web pages and Google took care of all the various inflections as well. Most of the 81,000 that went away were political web pages concerning the "Apostacy of 1965", a military overthrow of the Greek government, leaving me with the normal religious usage of the term "apostacy". I checked many of those web pages and every usage of the Greek term "ap?stas?a" I found involved apostacy, with no mention of any kind of rapture. So if "apostacia" can mean "rapture", then why is it that people who speak Greek on a daily basis make absolutely no connection between the word "apostacia" and the rapture? If those who think 2 Thess 2:3 is talking about the rapture, then I guess the Greek speaking world needs to take lessons on how to speak Greek from English speaking folks who don't know Greek!!!!

Trying to find a writing by anyone from any time period in which a connection has been made by a Greek speaker, writing in Greek, between the word "apostacia" (as used in 2 Thess 2:3) and the concept of the rapture is a fruitless endeavor because there's just no connection. And if 2 Thess 2 was written in Greek and Elohim was trying to tell us about the rapture there, why would He use a word that Greek speakers don't connect to the concept of the rapture in any fashion whatsoever? We must fit our theology to the written text, not the text to our desired theology. Shalom

MY REPLY

Try the word "departing." At least 7 Bibles published before the KJV used departing in 2 Thess. 2:3.

1. Wycliffe Bible (1330) has "departynge first"
2. Tyndale Bible (1525/26) has "departynge first"
3. Coverdale Bible 1535) has "departynge first"
4. Crammer Bible (1539) has "departynge first"
5. Geneva Bible (1560) has "departing first"
6. Breeches Bible (1583) has "departing first"
It is listed separately and dated differently. However, Breeches Bible seems to be a book-collector's term for the earlier Geneva Bible
7. Beza Bible (1583) has "departing first"

The KJV translation of 1611 was the first to make the 2 errors in 2 Thess. 2:3,4. Several modern translations followed in the KJV footsteps, but the World English Bible corrected the second error. Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Tribulations

Marilyn consider this!

(THE FIRST HALF OF THE 7-YEAR TRIBULATION LASTS 3.5)

First let me say: the great tribulations are not the wrath of God, but it is the wrath of man, the wrath of God is pored out upon the earth after the tribulation Saints are taken up to be with the Lord.

The first half (3.5 years) are the days of sorrows, Matthew 24:8.

After the days of sorrow have passed, the Saints will be delivered to tribulations and be put to death, Matthew 24:9.

The last half of the tribulations will be shortened for the very elect (The 144,000).

After the resurrection of Christ He spent 40 days with His Apostles teaching them about the Kingdom of God, Acts 1:3, the Kingdom of God came at Pentecost.

The tribulations, that is to say the last half three and one-half years will be shortened for the 144,000 by 40 days because Christ will teach them about the Millennial reign. After the forty days have passed Christ will roar from Zion (the 144,000) and utter His voice over Jerusalem, Joel 3:16. Jerusalem represents all of the dead Saints that had to suffer through the worst part of the tribulations. After three and one-half days the breath of life from God will enter into them, and they will hear a loud voice from heaven saying; "come up here". The Lord will be the shelter for the 144,000 and the strength of the Saints, Joel 3:16 who are giving testimony of Jesus, Revelation 11: so they can endure until the end. The Lord will be the shelter of the 144,000 during the time of His wrath that He will pore out upon the earth.

The 144,000 will teach the world about the King of Kings, during the Millennial reign with Christ, Zechariah 14:16.

The 144,000 will preach the gospel of the Kingdom in all the world for a witness to all nations, Matthew 24:14, after the Millennial reign the end will come, in which id the white throne judgment Revelation 20:11.

According to Christ in Matthew 7:13-14 there are MANY MORE people on the broad road to destruction than there are on the straight and narrow path, that leads to life everlasting.

MY REPLY

Thanks so much for mentioning the Bible verses that prove your point. I looked them all up.

> > First let me say: the great tribulations are not the wrath of God, but it is the wrath of man, the wrath of God is pored out upon the earth after the tribulation Saints are taken up to be with the Lord.

I agree. Rev 6:15-17 says, "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The Tribulation saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7.

Probably no one will be able to stand. Every wall will fall.

Eze 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. 22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."

> > The first half (3.5 years) are the days of sorrows, Matthew 24:8.

I agree.

Mat 24:7,8 says, "For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows."

> > After the days of sorrow have passed, the Saints will be delivered to tribulations and be put to death, Matthew 24:9.

Yes.

Mat 24:9 says, "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

> > The last half of the tribulations will be shortened for the very elect (The 144,000).

Yes.

Mat_24:22 says, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Mar_13:20 says, "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."

> > After the resurrection of Christ He spent 40 days with His Apostles teaching them about the Kingdom of God, Acts 1:3, the Kingdom of God came at Pentecost.

The tribulations, that is to say the last half three and one-half years will be shortened for the 144,000 by 40 days because Christ will teach them about the Millennial reign.

I'm not sure it will just be shortened by 40 days. It seems like it will be shortened by more than that.

> > After the forty days have passed Christ will roar from Zion (the 144,000) and utter His voice over Jerusalem, Joel 3:16. Jerusalem represents all of the dead Saints that had to suffer through the worst part of the tribulations. After three and one-half days the breath of life from God will enter into them, and they will hear a loud voice from heaven saying; "come up here". The Lord will be the shelter for the 144,000 and the strength of the Saints, Joel 3:16 who are giving testimony of Jesus, Revelation 11: so they can endure until the end. The Lord will be the shelter of the 144,000 during the time of His wrath that He will pore out upon the earth.

Joe 3:14-16 says, "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD (i.e., which is the Day of God's Wrath too) is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened (i.e., as in Rev. 6:12), and the stars shall withdraw their shining. (The Day of God's Wrath has arrived.)16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake (i.e., because the asteroid Wormwood and the mountain sized rock of Rev. 8:8-11 will impact Earth, one hitting the Mediterranean Sea, the other hitting Babylon): but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."

> > The 144,000 will teach the world about the King of Kings, during the Millennial reign with Christ, Zechariah 14:16.

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain."

They will have to keep the Feast of Tabernacles whether they want to or not.

I wonder what our jobs will be during the Millennium. Our home will be in New Jerusalem, a globe which will come down and orbit Earth like the Moon. There will be no night there. Travel between Earth and New Jerusalem will be possible.

Rev 21:24,25 says, "And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there."

> > The 144,000 will preach the gospel of the Kingdom in all the world for a witness to all nations, Matthew 24:14, after the Millennial reign the end will come, in which id the white throne judgment Revelation 20:11.

Rev 20:7-15 says, "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

According to Christ in Matthew 7:13-14 there are MANY MORE people on the broad road to destruction than there are on the straight and narrow path, that leads to life everlasting.

> > Truth have always offended the people proclaiming Christ as Lord and savior.

...You are right on the money with this, except I'm not sure about the Great Tribulation just being shortened by 40 days. Right now, it seems to be more than 40 days, but time will tell.

There will be a Total Solar Eclipse on March 20, 2015 and a Total Lunar Eclipse on April 4. This is rare. Not that they are two weeks apart, that always happens, but that they are both total. I just read today that this hasn't happened for 500 years, and won't happen again for 500 years.

The Total Solar Eclipse is pictured with a halo. It wouldn't be an Annular eclipse, the Wedding-Ring Eclipse like we had last year, but it would be the next best thing. It could mark the the general time of the First-Trump Rapture.

I'm hoping the Rapture will be on Thursday, April 2, Nisan 13, 5776, the anniversary of the Crucifixion. Agape

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