Pro and Con 1860

Posted 5-15-15

ANOTHER LILY OF ISRAEL


A POST ON FIVE DOVES, Jane A (10 May 2015) RE: Hello Doves, please read this and tell me what you think? Revelation 2 vs 20-25

I have a feeling that vs 24 shows us that we, who do not believe the doctrine of Jezebel here in Revelation 2:20-25(KJV), will not go through the Great Tribulation

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

I believe that we will go through difficult times, but not the Great Tribulation. Doves, I would love to hear what your thoughts are on this? Jane A

MY REPLY

I don't think the Philadelphian church will go through the Great Tribulation. The open door is set before them.

Rev 13:5,6 says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., Antichrist, the first beast) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (i.e., maybe until Mon. Sept. 19, 2016, Elul 16, 5776). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

The First-Trump Rapture takes place Mid-Trib.

After that, the Satan-possessed False Prophet will take office.

Rev 13:11,12 says, "And I beheld another beast (i.e., Satan) coming up out of the earth (i.e., where he was cast after being thrown out of Heaven mid-Trib); and he had two horns (i.e., two comings to power, in Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet) like a lamb (i.e., Christ), and he spake as a dragon (i.e., Satan, because he is the second son of perdition, Judas Iscariot was the first). 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast (i.e., Antichrist) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Mat_24:22 says, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened".

Mar 13:15-20 says, "And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. 17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days." Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Pro and Con 1858, posted 5-12-15

> > Of the first trump Rapture, 1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

> > Of the last trump Rapture, 1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption (i.e., at either Rapture), and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY (i.e., at the last Rapture). 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption (i.e., at either Rapture), and this mortal shall have put on immortality (i.e., at the last Rapture), then (tote, at that time) shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Marilyn: please consider this and thing about it!!!

Revelation 9:
2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

We must understand the bottomless pit IS CHILD BEARING, there is NO end to child bearing.

...The Lord showed me this years ago.

MY REPLY

I think the bottomless pit is hell. Satan is cast "into" the Earth Mid-Trib.

Rev 12:7-10 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverance, i.e., the First-Trump Rapture), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Luk 16:22,23 says, "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

> > the fifth Angel has already sounded his trumpet.

To me, the seven-sealed book has not yet been given to the Lamb of God. The first come up hither has not yet taken place. It happens in Rev. 4:1.

Rev 5:1 says, "And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals."

Rev 5:6-10 says, "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Re-visiting Reasons for a Spring Rapture

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/mar2015/stevem315.htm

MY REPLY

Thanks. I missed that one. Steve Mullin made some good points. I had caught the Song of Solomon one, and thought April showers bring May flowers.

March 19, 2013 plus 42 months equals Mon. Sept. 19, 2016, so the First-Trump Rapture could take place in May 2015 or May 2016. I'm hoping for May 2015, because this is a Sabbatical Year, and Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016 could be the first day of the Jubilee Year. It is on the anniversary of the Resurrection on April 9, 30 AD, a perfect time for the Second Advent. The Great Tribulation is to be shortened, we just don't know how much.

Steve also mentioned "4 Months to the Harvest." Those months could be Sivan, Tamuz, Av, and Elul. That would fit a First-Trump Rapture in Iyar and a Last-Trump Rapture in Tishri....Agape

MY REPLY TO A POST ON FIVE DOVES: RE: Lewis Brackett (10 May 2015) "2 Thessalonians 2 shows Pre Trib Rapture"

> > 3...Don't be deceived for the 2nd coming of Jesus will not come until the departure of the Church in the rapture, followed by the revealing of the anti-Christ

To me, the Antichrist will be in power before the First-Trump Rapture.

Rev 13:5,6 says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., the first beast, the Antichrist) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (i.e., until MID-TRIB). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven" (MID-TRIB).

The False Prophet will come to power after the MID-TRIB RAPTURE.

Rev 13:11,12 says, "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed." Agape

MY REPLY TO A POST ON FIVE DOVES, RE: (URL) Rapture Pentecost 2015

> > When you look at the Jewish candle menorah, and how the central candle is set apart from the rest…it seems to be signifying that this candle is unique as it is set apart in the centre dividing the spring feasts and the fall feasts. The spring ones on the left on the menorah, having been already fulfilled by Christ's death, burial and resurrection, and the fall feasts to the right of the central candle still are to be fulfilled with His second Coming in all His glory. It would appear that this central candle represents the church, and is set apart from the others representing God's dealings with His chosen people Israel. On Pentecost, (Shavuot, or 'weeks': Feast of Weeks) the church began with the coming of the Holy Spirit. It makes sense that He will conclude His work with the church on that same date then turn His attention back to the Jews in fulfilling the remaining feasts in the fall.

The candlestick in the Temple had 7 lamps. The center lamp was not elevated. That came about on Hanukkah.

Josephus, a Pharisee priest, said, "...these branches carried seven lamps, one by one, in imitation of the number of the planets" (Ant. III. VI. 7; see Wars V. V. 5 also). He said that included the Sun.

The naked-eye Solar System is Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn (the 3rd heaven Paul was caught up to in II Cor 12:2-4).

When the Rapture takes place, we will go to Saturn. Rev 4:3 says, "there was a rainbow round about the throne".

Eze 1:27,28 says, "And I saw as the colour of amber (i.e., Saturn is our amber planet), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his (i.e., Jesus') loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD" Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: Pro and Con 1858, posted 5-12-15

Marilyn: please consider this.

[ I think the bottomless pit is hell. Satan is cast "into" the Earth Mid-Trib. ] You can rest assure when we are going through the great tribulations, IT will seem like pure HELL. I cannot buy into a pre-trib. or a mid-trib rapture.

When a baby is born into this world they are kept on milk until they are old enough to eat solid foods. When a person comes to the Lord, he a baby in the Lord and the Lord keeps them on the milk of the Word until they are able to consume the meat of the Word. There is a growing process for both the natural born and the Spiritual born babies, OTHERWISE they would stay the same and never grow up. As the natural child grows, his digestive system becomes more able to digest and dissolve solid foods.

For the Spiritual born of the Lord, the Lord keeps him on the mild until he is able to handle the meat of the Word.

However we must understand the difference between the milk of the Word and the meat. There is a difference between milk and meat, in the natural, AND in the Spiritual. I am certain that you know the difference between milk and meat in the natural.

However I am not certain that you know the difference between the milk of the Word and the meat of the Word of God.

Ezekiel 47: shows us a growing process for a newborn babe in the Lord. The newborn in the Lord began with NO understanding, so the newborn began by just reading the surface of the Word, in which is the milk of the Word. The further out the newborn goes the greater his understanding becomes, until he is totally submersed and receiving the deep things of God. The meat of the Word is NOT on the surface but it is hidden from the natural eye. The meat is NOT in quoting scripture, BUT the meat come from receiving Revelation knowledge from the Father through Christ. The worldly people is capable of reading the Bible and quoting scripture, even they can drink in the milk of the Word. If the worldly people can read the Bible and quote scripture, then why would anyone want to do what the world can do? Many people are building their doctrine upon the sand, sand is the surface of the Word, meaning to quote scripture, this is what I see that you are doing, building upon the surface quoting scripture.

The Lord gave me Revelation showing me the bottomless pit is child bearing, and the smoke is hatred and the locust are radical Muslim people, who grew up in hatred and consumes nations through child bearing. He also showed me by Revelation the fifth trumpet HAVE ALREADY sounded. People will NEVER come into the knowledge of truth until they stop building upon the surface, and allow the Lord to give them Revelation knowledge, in which is the rock that Christ is building His church upon.

As it is written, man shall not live by bread alone but by EVERY Word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

To me, the seven-sealed book has not yet been given to the Lamb of God. The first come up hither has not yet taken place. It happens in Rev. 4:1.

All of the seven seals have been opened, Christ opened them to John, in turn John wrote what he saw, otherwise John would NOT have had any knowledge of what was in the seven seals. If the seven seals had not been opened, John could not have written about the seven angels with the seven trumpets, and revealing to us the things coming at each trumpet blast.

Did you know the feast of trumpets are the ONLY feast that has NOT been completely fulfilled, I said that only to show you we are in the LAST days.

The beast has risen out of the bottomless pit of child bearing, the beast is in every nation on earth, waiting for orders to rise up against each nation, this will happen after the sounding of the sixth trumpet. The sixth trumpet will sound when the new world order is completely in its fullness, the new world order is a one world government with seven heads. The seven heads are the United Nations who will declare marshal law in all nations.

MY REPLY

You figured me out right. I try go by what the Scripture says, not what people say, although I was misled about a Pre-Trib Rapture for a long time. People can be wrong, but Scripture is forever true.

> > I cannot buy into a pre-trib. or a mid-trib rapture.

That leaves you with a post-trib rapture. I think there is a mid-trib and a post-trib rapture.

THERE ARE TWO TRUMPET CALLS

Num 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. 3 And when they shall blow with them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. 4 And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes (i.e., elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

MID-TRIB, FIRST TRUMP, WITHOUT EARTHQUAKE, MORTALS DO NOT YET PUT ON IMMORTALITY

1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Rev 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. 3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (i.e., last stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (i.e., first stone in the breastplate, Jesus is the first and the last): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's ring system) round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (i.e., Judah's stone in the breastplate). 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

Rev 10:11 says, "And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

Therefore, the "RISE" in Rev. 11:1 is the same as the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev. 4:1.

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE, and measure the temple of God (i.e., we are the temple of the Holy Spirit), and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. (i.e., the Great Tribulation) 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (i.e., Moses and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

POST-TRIB, LAST TRUMP, WITH EARTHQUAKE, MORTALS PUT ON IMMORTALITY

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rev 11:12,13 says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great EARTHQUAKE, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven." Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: The Last Trumpet - Gracethrufaith

http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/the-last-trumpet/

MY REPLY

Thanks.

> > We read in Revelation 11:15, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.'" In the context, this seems to come around the middle of the tribulation period."

To me, the reign of Jesus follows the Great Tribulation. The Antichrist reigns during the first half of the Tribulation. Satan is cast out of Heaven Mid-Trib. The Satan-possessed False Prophet rules during the last half, the Great Tribulation. Jesus receives his millennial kingdom on the Day of the Lord, also called the Day of God's Wrath, that follows the Great Tribulation.

Rev 13:5-17 says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., the first beast, the Antichrist) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (i.e., until Mid-Trib). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (i.e., the First-Trump Rapture just took place). 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (i.e., the ones left behind because they had spotted robes), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Joe 1:14,15 says, "Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD, 15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."

Joe 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

11 And I beheld another beast (i.e., Satan) coming up out of the earth (i.e., after being cast out of Heaven Mid-Trib); and he had two horns (i.e., two comings to power) like a lamb (i.e., Jesus), and he (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet) spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." Agape

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