Pro and Con 1872

Posted 7-25-15

MY REPLY TO A POST ON FIVE DOVES RE: DEBORAH: DAY OF ATONEMENT RAPTURE?

> > With regard to the above post about a possible rapture on the Day of Atonement, Sept 23, 2015. Since the Year of Jubilee is not announced until the Day of Atonement, the Sound of the Trumpet to proclaim the Year of Jubilee does not happen until the Day of Atonement. So might THIS be THE LAST Trumpet Blast referenced in the rapture scriptures?

I'm excited. My recent Bible studies have turned up some new things concerning the timing of the two Raptures. It looks like the Lord planned for the First-Trump Rapture to take place in the Jubilee Year, but not on the Day of Atonement.

Isaiah 18:3f and Song of Solomon 2:10f suggest the time of the firstripe grapes for the first Rapture. Isa 18:5 says, "afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower". That fits Pentecost. Jesus came to the Church on Pentecost in 30 AD, and it looks like he will come to the Church again on Pentecost in 2016 (Sunday, June 12, Sivan 6, 5776).

BOTH RAPTURES ARE AT THE TIME OF GRAPES, THE FIRST IS "AFORE THE HARVEST"

Isa 18:3-7 says, "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (i.e., the UN flag) on the mountains (i.e., kingdoms); and when he (i.e., the Lord) bloweth a trumpet (i.e., on a feast day), hear ye. 4 For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider (nabat, behold with pleasure) in my dwelling place (i.e., heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest. 5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (i.e., in the spring, therefore at Pentecost), he shall both cut off the sprigs (i.e., with first-ripe grapes) with pruning hooks, and TAKE AWAY (i.e., in the First-Trump Rapture) and cut down the branches (i.e., branches with no fruit). 6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them. 7 In that time (i.e., SPRING) shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place (i.e., heaven) of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion."

THE SECRET OF THE STAIRS, "ARISE MY LOVE" WHEN "THE VINES WITH THE TENDER GRAPE GIVE A GOOD SMELL"

Song of Solomon 2:10-17 says, "My beloved (i.e., Christ) spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away (i.e., in the First-Trump Rapture). 11 For, lo, the winter is past (i.e., it is spring), the rain (i.e., of Nisan) is over and gone; 12 The flowers appear on the earth (i.e., April showers bring May flowers); the time of the singing of birds is come (i.e., it is spring), and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove) is heard in our land (i.e., they come in April and leave in October); 13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. 14 O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places (i.e., places is not in the original) of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely. 15 Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for OUR VINES HAVE TENDER GRAPES. 16 My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies (i.e., Israel's Madonna Lilies start to bloom in May). 17 Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains (i.e., plural) of Bether (meaning separation, i.e., suggesting the two Raptures)."

Son_7:12 says, "Let us get up early to the vineyards; let us see if the vine flourish, WHETHER THE TENDER GRAPE APPEAR, and the pomegranates bud forth: there will I give thee my loves."

Num 13:17-20 says, "Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan, and said unto them, Get you up this way southward, and go up into the mountain: 18 And see the land, what it is; and the people that dwelleth therein, whether they be strong or weak, few or many; 19 And what the land is that they dwell in, whether it be good or bad; and what cities they be that they dwell in, whether in tents, or in strong holds; 20 And what the land is, whether it be fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now THE TIME WAS THE TIME OF THE FIRSTRIPE GRAPES."

Jesus came to the true Church on Pentecost Sunday in 30 AD. It looks like he will come again to the true Church on Pentecost at the time of the First-Trump Rapture, the time of firstripe grapes, Sivan 6, 5776, Sunday, June 12, 2016, in the Jubilee Year that starts Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016.

SUNDAY FITS

In the Preview of the Rapture, Rev 1:9-11 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos (i.e., meaning mortal), for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (i.e., Sunday), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last".

IT LOOKS LIKE WE ARE ALREADY IN THE FIRST HALF OF THE TRIBULATION SO THERE IS NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

It doesn't look like Jesus promised us a Pre-Trib Rapture, as I used to think. He plainly said, "In the world YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." (Joh 16:33).

Act 14:22 says, "we must through much TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God."

Rev 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial, i.e., the temptation to take the Mark of the Beast in the Great Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

It looks like the Tribulation started 3-19-2013, the day the Pope was elected. That date plus the 42 months of Rev. 13:5,6 would put Mid-Trib on Elul 16, 5776, Monday, Sept. 19, 2016. I figure we have to be out of here in the spring before the False Prophet comes to power Mid-Trib.

Rev 13:1-4 says, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea (i.e., nations, Rev 17:15), and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads (i.e., Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, the Holy Roman Empire, the Ecclesiastical Holy Roman Empire, and Babylon III) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (i.e., Pontifex Maximus, started by Nimrod and assumed by all the other kings). 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (i.e., Greece, Dan. 7:6), and his feet were as the feet of a bear (i.e., Greece, Dan. 7:5), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (i.e., Babylon II, Dan 7:4): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat (thronos, throne), and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads (i.e., Antichrist) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

Rev 13:5-9 says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., the beast, the Antichrist) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (i.e., the saints of the First-Trump Rapture that are in heaven before the False Prophet is revealed). 7 And it was given unto him (i.e., the Antichrist) to make war with the saints (i.e., the foolish virgins, the Laodicean Church that is left behind at the first Rapture), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations (i.e., after the First-Trump Rapture has taken place). 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear."

> > This is also when the pope is scheduled to address the United Nations for the first time in history, assuming his proper place as False Prophet?

How about the first beast, the Antichrist? Keep in mind that the number 13 means rebellion and lawlessness.

THINGS POPE FRANCIS, CHOSEN 3-13-13, ANNOUNCED AT 8:13 PM, AND NAMED AFTER A 13TH CENTURY SAINT, HAS SAID

Pope Francis was elected exactly 13 days after his predecessor resigned. Pope Francis said, "Our Christian identity is belonging to a people: the Church. Without this, we are not Christians. We entered the Church through baptism: there we are Christians. "We must meet one another doing good." To those who say, "But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!," the pope said, "But do good: We will meet one another there."

He said, "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists."

Not a word about John 3:16 or Rom 10:9. John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Rom 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

The Pope believes that Muslims pray to and worship the "one God" that he also worships.

He said, "Koran And Holy Bible Are The Same."

He said, "All religions are true, because they are true in the hearts of all those who believe in them. What other kind of truth is there?"

In a Marian Day celebration, he consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary at an October 13, 2013 Mass in St. Peter's Square. He said, "When we read about Creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so. He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment."

HERE IS THE BOMBSHELL. He said, "Through humility, soul searching, and prayerful contemplation we have gained a new understanding of certain dogmas. THE CHURCH NO LONGER BELIEVES IN A LITERAL HELL WHERE PEOPLE SUFFER."

THE BIBLE SHOWS THAT THERE IS A HELL

Rev_1:18 says, "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of HELL and of death."

Rev_20:14 says, "And death and HELL were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

Mar_9:45 says, "And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into HELL, into the fire that never shall be quenched".

THE TWO RAPTURES BRACKET THE GREAT TRIBULATION

It looks like the First-Trump Rapture will come just before Mid-Trib, and the Last-Trump Rapture will come on the Day of the Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath, at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation.

Act 14:22 says, "we must through much TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God."

Psa 27:5 says, "For IN THE TIME OF TROUBLE he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle (i.e., the Holy of Holies represented the third heaven, Saturn) shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock."

It looks like the First-Trump Rapture will be on Pentecost, the time of firstripe grapes, and the Last-Trump Rapture will be on Trumpets, the last of the grape harvest. Immediately after that, the fully ripe grapes are cast into the "great winepress of the wrath of God" (Rev. 14:19).

THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE IS "WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD"

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL (i.e., MICHAEL, MID-TRIB), AND WITH THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Rev 12:6-12 says, "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven (i.e., at Mid-Trib): MICHAEL and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now (i.e., Mid-Trib) is come salvation (soteria, rescue, i.e., the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time (i.e., the shortened Great Tribulation)."

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE IS "AT THE LAST TRUMP" SOUNDED BY AN ANGEL

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption (i.e., at either Rapture), and this mortal shall have put on immortality (i.e., only at the last Rapture), then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rev 11:15-19 says, "And THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Dan 12:1,2 says, "And at that time (i.e., Mid-Trib) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there SHALL BE (i.e., after Mid-Trib) A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION even to that same time: and at that time (i.e., the Day of the Lord at the end of the Great Tribulation) thy people shall be delivered (malat, escape, leap out, i.e., be Raptured), every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

THE TWO RAPTURES BRACKET THE GRAPE HARVEST, JUNE TO SEPTEMBER

Therefore, they seem likely on Pentecost and at the seventh trumpet sounded by an angel on the Feast of Trumpets.

> > "And you shall count seven sabbaths of years for yourself, seven times seven years; and the time of the seven sabbaths of years shall be to you forty-nine years. Then you shall cause the trumpet of the Jubilee to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month [i.e., on the Day of Atonement]... And you shall consecrate the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants. That fiftieth year shall be a Jubilee to you; in it you shall neither sow nor reap what grows of its own accord, nor gather the grapes of your untended vine." Leviticus 25:8-11

It looks like the Jubilee is announced on the previous Day of Atonement to keep them from sowing grain that they couldn't reap the next spring, but the Jubilee starts on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Sacred Year. No year starts on the 10th day of the 7th month. The upcoming Jubilee Year, Sacred Year and Regnal Year will all start on Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016.

They were not to reap grapes from their undressed vines. That just might be because those that accept Jesus as their Saviour will be caught up in the First-Trump Rapture at the time of the first ripe grapes on Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5776, Sun. June 12, 2016. The time of the first ripe grapes starts June 1st.

Keep in mind that the Israelites went up and searched the land of the giants at the time of the first ripe grapes. That prefigured our going up into Heaven at the time of the first ripe grapes. Giants were in the land, and giant angels are in Heaven until they are cast out Mid-Trib.

Both Raptures seem to be related to the grape harvest. The firstripe grape harvest starts in June, and the end of the grape harvest takes place in September. Therefore, the First-Trump Rapture may be on Pentecost, and the Last-Trump Rapture may be on the Feast of Trumpets.

Rev. 14 starts out with the Last-Trump Rapture, when only the 144,000 can sing the new song. It ends with the winepress of the wrath of God. Even the winepress has to do with the grape harvest.

Rev 14:4,5 says, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God....

Rev 14:7-10 says, "...with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen...9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God...

Rev 14:15-18 says, "And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe."

Rev 14:19 says, "And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God."

THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, THE TIME OF THE FIRST RIPE GRAPES, THE JUBILE YEAR AND "YE SHALL RETURN EVERY MAN UNTO HIS FAMILY", MAY ALL BE MORE CONNECTED THAN I REALIZED

Look at Lev 25:8-13. It says, "And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. 9 Then (i.e., in the 49th year, as in this year 5775) shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile (teruah, joy) to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. 10 And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year (i.e., the next Sacred year, which starts Nisan 1, 5776, Sat. April 9, 2016), and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and YE SHALL RETURN EVERY MAN UNTO HIS FAMILY. 11 A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. 12 For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field. 13 In the year of this jubile ye shall return every man unto his possession."

They went up and searched the land of the giants at the time of the first ripe grapes. That ties in with Michael casting Satan out of Heaven Mid-Trib.

Num 13:20-22 says, "And what the land is, whether it be fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now the time was the time of the firstripe grapes. 21 So they went up, and searched the land...22 And they ascended by the south"...

"YE SHALL RETURN EVERY MAN UNTO HIS FAMILY" COULD HAVE A MORE FAR-REACHING MEANING THAN IS COMMONLY UNDERSTOOD

My husband is in his celestial body now. I know what it looks like for he visited me briefly about three months after he died. I asked him if he was 30 or 33. He said, "33." He was 87 when he died.

At the time of the First-Trump Rapture, he will RETURN UNTO HIS FAMILY, i.e., he will come back with Christ, get his resurrection body, then we will be caught up together with the Lord in the air.

1Th 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (phthano, precede) them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Before my husband died, our son David had a dream in which he and I were going up in the air in the Rapture. He said that there was no sensation of cold or wind. At first, I thought he meant that the three of us went up together, but he explained that it was just he and I, so we will meet Ed in the air. That agrees with the Bible. Agape

INCOMING EMAIL

Just because a prophecy doesn't come true at the time predicted does not make it a false prophecy! It is still true ...just the time given for it's fulfillment was wrong. It will still happen! A prophecy today is different then a prophecy given by the seers in the Old Testament. That was as the mouth of God.

A generation is how long a person can live so a generation is 100years. When it says a generation died in the wilderness, it simply means people of that generation died. They could have been 50 years old when they started the wilderness journey or infants ...they were still part of that generation. So I think the generation that sees the sign (6 day war) is 100 years from that date ...the ones who are still alive (that were living on earth during 6day war).

MY REPLY

To me, according to Mt 1:17, a generation is 48.33 years. 2030 divided by 42 = 48.33.

I got the 2030 years from my Bible Chronology posted on my website.

Mat 1:17 says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations."

1967 + 48.33 = 2015.33

According to Psa 90:10, a lifetime is considered 70 years.

Psa_90:10 says, "The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."

Christians actually never die. We really do "fly away." My husband "died" Dec. 27, 2011. He was 87. He came to see me in his celestial body the following April 2. He looked great. I asked him if he was 30 or 33. He said, "33."

That's interesting because Jesus was 33 when he ascended.

Did Jesus play out the Rapture for us when he came to inhabit the Church on Pentecost? The Israelites were to go up to Jerusalem on Pentecost. Maybe Jesus will come and take us up to New Jerusalem on Pentecost.

According to Song of Solomon 2:10f and Isaiah 18:3f, the Rapture will be at the time of firstripe grapes, early June. That fits next Pentecost, which will be June 12.

Before long, we will get our resurrection bodies--made perfect. Won't that be great?

Heb_11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." Agape

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