Pro and Con 1892

Posted 11-23-15

"What's All This Furor over "POSTPONEMENTS"?"

http://triumphpro.com/postponements-new-truth.htm

"Because of the decisions made by the Rabbinical Council and Rabbi Hillel II in 358 A.D., in the modern astronomically-based Jewish calendar, Passover (Nisan 14) can only fall on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Sabbath."

That could have been true in 30 AD. Jesus was crucified on the Preparation of the Passover, Thursday, Nisan 13.

Didn't Rabbi Hillel have the power to do what he did?

In Mat_23:2, Jesus said, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat".

As far as I know, Rabbi Hillel didn't reveal how long they had already been going by those rules. They had been using mathematics to figure out the calendar long before those days. They had to know when the next Tishri 1 would be to set the correct year type for the preceding year.

AN INTERESTING NOTE

"Messianic Jews were banished from the synagogues following the rebellion in 70 A.D. By 135 A.D., a 'CURSE' had been written into the daily synagogue prayer, the Amidah. This 'curse' was against all 'heretics' and 'Nazarenes' -- meaning those who followed Jesus Christ, the 'Nazarene.'"

MY REPLY TO AN INCOMING EMAIL TOO LONG TO POST: RE: Please only tell which (if any) of my Biblical beliefs you disagree with, and exactly why

> > would you agree to intercessory prayer for my deliverance and healing?

Of course. Dear heavenly Father, please heal Joe and help him understand Scripture. In Jesus' name, Amen.

> > the new covenant has not abolished the Law, but instead has retained and "changed" it by making it part of the "law of Christ" and "law of the Spirit" (Ro 8:2*; 1Co 9:21; Heb 7:12), as well as by amplifying, expanding, and emphasizing it (Mt 5:17-48; Jn 13:34)....

> > Grace has not taken away the Law, but rather the Law and sin remain the reason for grace (Ro 5:20; 1Ti 1:13-16). Law and grace are not mutually exclusive, but rather the Law is essential to grace, and grace is grounded in the morality of the Law (Ro 5:15-21; 6:14-15; Ttus 2:11-12; Jd 4). The Law does not block grace, curse, defile, kill, condemn, or disqualify when it works together with grace within the context of faith (Ro 5:20; 7:12-13)....

Heb 7:12 says "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Rom 8:2 says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

> > Faith is not a gift to be passively received, but actively used and applied to doing works. Grace has not freed Christians from self-effort or striving to do works or keep the Law. A passage that supposedly says it has actually only says it has freed Christians from bondage to sin and death (Ro 7:24-8:9a*-11 [cf. Ro 7:24b; 8:12-13; 1Co 10:12-13; Ja 1:14-15; 1Pe 2:11]). Other passages that supposedly advocate passive spirituality by instructing to sit, rest, dwell, or be settled are actually only describing obedient living, having God's favor and protection, being unburdened of worry, assurances of salvation, or warnings to be steadfast in your faith (Ps 91:1-2; Isa 26:3; Mt 11:28-30; Eph 2:6; Col 1:23a).

Don't mix the Law with Grace. The Law was to show us what sin is.

Mat_11:13 says, "all the prophets and THE LAW prophesied UNTIL JOHN."

Joh_1:17 says, "the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."

Rom 8:2 says, "FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HATH MADE ME FREE FROM THEE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH."

Rom 3:19 says, "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Eph 2:4-10 says, "God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (BY GRACE YE ARE SAVED;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (i.e., for the location, see Eze 1:26-28): 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE ARE YE SAVED through faith; and that not of yourselves: IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD: 9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Gal 2:20,21 says, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I DO NOT FRUSTRATE THE GRACE OF GOD: FOR IF RIGHTEOUSNESS COME BY THE LAW, THEN CHRIST IS DEAD IN VAIN."

> > If you accept Jesus then you are Jesus, not merely part of him (cf. Mk 13:21-22; Ro 8:1; 1Co 12:12-27 [per contra Gal 2:20]).

Jesus is God. Joh_10:30 says, "I and my Father are one."

We are not Jesus. We are members of the church, which is called the body of Christ, because we are in him.

1Co 12:27 says, "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular (meros, piece, division, share)."

1Co 12:13-18 says, "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling? 18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him."

> > Jesus isn't a judge (cf. Ac 10:42

Jesus IS the judge. Joh_5:22 says, "For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son".

Act 10:41,42 says, "...he rose from the dead. 42 AND HE COMMANDED US TO PREACH UNTO THE PEOPLE, AND TO TESTIFY THAT IT IS HE WHICH WAS ORDAINED OF GOD TO BE THE JUDGE OF THE QUICK AND DEAD."

> > Two Raptures, Not Just One...

> > "the last trumpet" in 1 Corinthians 15:52 must only refer to a last trumpet call for the Church before the Tribulation, not to the last trumpet call in Revelation 11:15 (despite the notable parallel appearance of the word "mystery" in 1Co 15:51 and Rv 10:7), or to the very last trumpet call of apocalyptic events in Matthew 24:31. The Bible thus reveals two separate Raptures, and two separate trumpet calls associated with them.

I agree that there are two Raptures, but the first one is not before the Tribulation. It is Mid-Trib.

The First-Trump Rapture is in I Th 4:16,17. It takes place Mid-Trib (Rev 13:5,6; Rev 12:10, Dan 12:1). The Last-Trump Rapture is in I Cor 15:51-54. It takes place at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation.

> > Bible prophecy reveals two separate Raptures and their timing relative to the 7-year Tribulation. Rapture #1 is a pre-Tribulation Rapture for the Church (Christians of the Church Age), and Rapture #2 is a subsequent, post-Tribulation Rapture for believing Israel and the Tribulation saints.

> > There is no corresponding Bible passage that specifically states or implies the Church will go through any of the Tribulation, or that clearly suggests a need for the Church to go through any of it. These details help rule out anything but a pre-Trib Rapture of the Church.

THE FIRST RAPTURE IS DURING THE REIGN OF THE ANTICHRIST, JUST BEFORE THE FALSE PROPHET IS REVEALED MID-TRIB

Rev 13:5-11 says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., the first beast, the Antichrist) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (i.e., until Mid-Trib). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN (i.e., the first Rapture takes place just before the False Prophet comes to power Mid-Trib). 7 And it was given unto him (i.e., Antichrist) to make war with the saints (i.e., the foolish virgins left behind), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld ANOTHER BEAST (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet that comes to power Mid-Trib) coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Rev 12:6-12 says, "And the woman (i.e., Israeli Christians) fled into the wilderness (i.e., Mid-Trib), where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation). 7 And there was war in heaven (i.e., at Mid-Trib): MICHAEL and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now (arti, just now) is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverance, i.e., the First-Trump Rapture), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they (i.e., those in heaven) overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 THEREFORE REJOICE, YE HEAVENS, AND YE THAT DWELL IN THEM. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time (i.e., the shortened Great Tribulation)."

Dan 12:1 says, "And at that time shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be (i.e., after Mid-Trib) a time of trouble (i.e., the Great Tribulation), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (i.e., Mid-Trib) thy people shall be delivered (malat, escape, leap out, i.e., be raptured), every one that shall be found written in the book."

AT THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, THERE IS NO EARTHQUAKE, BUT AT THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, THERE IS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE

Rev 4:1 says, "behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER".

Rev 10:11 says, "Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

Therefore, the "RISE" in Rev 11:1 is the same as the "COME UP HITHER" in Rev. 4:1, and the 42-month Great Tribulation follows it.

Rev 11:1-3,4 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE (i.e., the first "COME UP HITHER"), and measure the temple of God (i.e., we are the temple of the Holy Spirit), and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months (i.e., during the Great Tribulation). 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (i.e., Moses and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

Zec 4:11-14 says, "What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth."

Moses and Elijah (Elias) stood before Jesus, the God of the earth, at the Transfiguration.

Mat 17:1-3 says, "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up (i.e., as in the Rapture) into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

THE LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE AND THE GREAT EARTHQUAKE

Moses and Elijah will be caught up in the Last-Trump Rapture, when there is a great earthquake, because Satan's asteroid Wormwood will impact Earth and destroy Babylon. Evidently, a mountain-sized piece will split off at the Roche Limit and hit the Mediterranean Sea, causing a tsunami that will wash Gog's army out of Israel and destroy Damascus (Isa 17:1).

Rev 11:12,13 says, "And they (i.e., Moses and Elijah) heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

Zec 14:1-9 (KJV) says, "Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle (i.e., this is the Gog and Magog war); and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle (i.e., on Joshua's Long Day, when an asteroid hit Earth). 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: AND THE LORD MY GOD SHALL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE. 6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: 7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light (i.e., because Earth is turned upside down). 8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. 9 And THE LORD SHALL BE KING OVER ALL THE EARTH: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one."

Isa_24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

Isa 24:20,21 says, "The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth."

After the Last-Trump Rapture, Rev 7:13-17 says, "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

> > A mid-Trib or post-Trib Rapture could not really come imminently

The Bible does not say it comes imminently. The words imminent and imminently do not appear in the KJV Bible.

> > As a result, the only way the Rapture in Matthew 25:1-13 can really be a surprise to the wise virgins is if it's pre-Trib.

It does not have to be a surprise to the wise virgins. The word "surprise" does not appear in the KJV Bible. Dan 12:10 says, "the wise will understand".

Speaking of the Great Tribulation, Dan 12:7 says, "it shall be for a time, times, and an half (i.e., 3.5 years); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the HOLY PEOPLE, all these things shall be finished."

Who leads these "HOLY PEOPLE"? The Pope, and this one said that God was not divine and that atheists were saved.

Rev 13:1 says, "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads (i.e., leaders of Babel, Babylon II, Medo-Persia, Greece, Holy Roman Empire, Ecclesiastical Holy Roman Empire and Babylon III) and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (i.e., Pontifex Maximus, started by Nimrod at the Tower of Babel and continued until today). Agape

INCOMING EMAIL

Subject: Watch "Ron Wyatt - Archaeology - Ark of the Covenant - U..." on YouTube

Ron Wyatt - Archaeology - Ark of the Covenant - U...:
http://youtu.be/XOWrPFb6w0w

MY REPLY

I don't believe anything Ron Wyatt said. Mt. Sinai is not Jebel al-Lawz in Saudi Arabia. From Egypt to Kadesh Barnea, the Israelites stayed in the desert near the Mediterranean Sea.

Look at a map of the Sinai in the back of a Bible.

Exo 13:20 says, "And they took their journey from Succoth, and encamped in Etham, in the edge of the wilderness (midbar, DESERT)."

Exo_15:22 says, "So Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into the wilderness of Shur; and they went three days in the wilderness, and found no water."

Exo_16:1 says, "And they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto the wilderness of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt."

Num_26:64 says, "But among these there was not a man of them whom Moses and Aaron the priest numbered, when they numbered the children of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai."

Num_33:6 says, "And they departed from Succoth, and pitched in Etham, which is in the edge of the wilderness".

Num_33:8 says, "And they departed from before Pihahiroth, and passed through the midst of the sea into the wilderness, and went three days' journey in the wilderness of Etham, and pitched in Marah."

Num_33:15 says, "And they departed from Rephidim, and pitched in the wilderness of Sinai."

Num_33:36 says, "And they removed from Eziongaber, and pitched in the wilderness of Zin, which is Kadesh."

Num 10:28,29 says, "Thus were the journeyings of the children of Israel according to their armies, when they set forward. 29 And Moses said unto Hobab, the son of Raguel the Midianite, Moses' father in law, We are journeying unto the place of which the LORD said, I will give it you: come thou with us, and we will do thee good: for the LORD hath spoken good concerning Israel."

Mt. Sinai is Jebel Halal in the Wilderness of Sin along the Way to Shur near the Mediterranean Sea. It only took the Israelites 11 days to go from Mt. Sinai to Kadesh Barnea.

Mt. Sinai is in the Sinai Peninsula. Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: SATAN COMES FIRST 'AFTER' THE RAPTURE, AND THEN HIS ANTI-CHRIST

2 Thessalonians 2:7-9
".............only He ( the Holy Spirit indwelt in the Church) which now withholdeth shall continue till He be taken out of the way ( by the rapture of the Church ), and THEN shall that wicked man (the anti-Christ ) be revealed......even him (the anti-Christ) who is coming is BY THE EFFECTUAL WORKING OF SATAN , with all power , and signs, and lying wonders."

The following events take place AFTER THE RAPTURE of the Church as described in Revelation 12:10-12 ," NOW IS SALVATION ( rapture )" :

Revelation 13:1-5
"And I saw a beast rise out of the sea.......and the dragon gave him his great power, and his throne, and great authority.....and I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death, but his deadly wound was healed, and all the ( left-behind) world wondered and followed the beast.......and power was given unto him for forty-two months."

That forty-two months of the anti-Christ's authority on earth begins WHEN Satan is cast down AFTER the rapture, and is the 1,260 days BETWEEN Nisan 10, Day of Palms and the New Moon of Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets 42 months later which is the Second Coming of the Lord.

Are you receiving the 'promised blessing' of Rev 1:3 and Rev 22:7 ?

MY REPLY

> > SATAN COMES FIRST 'AFTER' THE RAPTURE, AND THEN HIS ANTI-CHRIST

To me, Antichrist comes during the first half of the Tribulation, the Rapture comes just before Mid-Trib, then the Satan-possessed False Prophet comes Mid-Trib.

2Th 2:1-9 says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (i.e., at Mid-Trib), 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (i.e., Day of the Lord in Siniaticus, Alexandrine, and Vaticanus Codices) is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (i.e., DEPARTING, the First-Trump Rapture) FIRST, and that man of sin (i.e., the False Prophet) be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time (i.e., the Great Tribulation). 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (Antichrist) who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way (i.e., Mid-Trib). 8 And then shall that Wicked (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Phrophet) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders".

Rev 13:5-11 says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., Antichrist, who has on his head the name of blasphemy, Pontifex Maximus) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (i.e., the first half of the Tribulation). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN (i.e., the First-Trump Rapture took place just before Mid-Trib). 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (i.e., the foolish virgins left behind the first time), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld ANOTHER BEAST (i.e., the Satan-indwelt False Prophet) coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

Rev 12:6-12 says, "And the woman (i.e., Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place (i.e., Petra) prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation). 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation (soteria, rescue, deliverence, i.e., the Mid-Trib Rapture), and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time" (i.e., the shortened Great Tribulation)."

> > Are you receiving the 'promised blessing' of Rev 1:3 and Rev 22:7 ?

That is when the Rapture is at hand, so "Yes." I think the Rapture will come in the year of Jubilee. Agape

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