Pro and Con 1958

Posted 1-9-16

http://www.space.com/35194-planet-skywatching-guide-2017.html?utm_source=notification

"Saturn starts 2017 in the nonzodiacal constellation of Ophiuchus, the serpent holder, and then crosses over into Sagittarius, the archer, on Feb. 23. Retrograde motion causes the ringed planet to cross back into Ophiuchus on May 18, where Saturn will remain until it crosses back into Sagittarius on Nov. 18. See it mornings from Jan. 1 to June 14 and evenings from June 15 to Dec. 4.

"Brightest in 2017: June 12 to June 17. Saturn is at opposition to the sun on June 15."

Rev_2:28 says, "And I will give him the morning star."

Rev_22:16 says, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

INCOMING EMAIL, Re: Could there be 3 Raptures

Shalom!
1.) The preparation day is the 14th of Nisan (www.hebcal.com). Biblically it refers to the Feast of Passover (Lev 23:5) followed by the Feast of unleavened bread, which begins in the evening (15th of Nisan), a Sabbath, when the Seder (Passover meal) is celebrated. Jesus and the disciples took it an evening before, when the 14th of Nisan began. The Jews do not call the feast days according to the bible Feast of Passover and Feast of unleavened bread, but the season (8 days) Passover. They can also refer unleavened bread already to the preparation day, when they search the house for Chamutz and burn it in the morning,
2.) The Palm Sunday is tradition of the Roman Catholic Church and the bible does not say it was a Sunday. Their traditions are pagan origin, not helpful dividing the word of truth.
3.) At that time the High Priest was responsible for setting the time of Passover, he did it with the help of two men from the Sanhedrin. This has nothing to do with the annual Sabbath (15th of Nisan) or the preparation day (14th of Nisan), which is not a Sabbath and the Sanhedrin can gather, which they did. The preparation day 2017 is Monday the 10th of April and the Sabbath 15th of Nisan the 11th of April and the Resurrection Day is Thursday the 13th of April.

4.) When the bible speaks of day and night it means a full day (John 11:9 "are there not 12 hours in the day?") and a full night. Gen evening and morning (night and day)=24 hours. Also after 3 days are after 3 full days and not less (Mat 27:63: Mar 8:31).
5.) Luke 24:21 A translation from Greek could read ...and beside all this, to day the third day has passed (where they expected Israels redemption), after these things were done (Crucifixion of Christ). Sunday was already the fourth day, when they went home.
6.) The foolish virgins cannot be called saints, because they missed the Rapture and when they wanted to go in, the door was shut (Luke 13:25). 7.) The Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord are the same. Jesus Christ is Lord! When He comes back it is His day and called in the bible Day of the Lord. It refers to His second coming.
8.) Rev 2:18-22 does not say the wise virgins are kept from the Great tribulation, but they can be sure, to be protected.
9.) 2. Th 2:3 the departure (Greek apostasia) is a falling away from Christ as the same word in Acts 21:21, which is translated "forsake Moses". The meaning is a rebellion or falling away, also a departure is here to depart from Christ (Luke 13:27). I prefer to interpret the bible with the word of God and avoid twisting words of men.
God bless!

MY REPLY

Shalom!
In our discussions, keep in mind that the First-Trump Rapture is on a feast day.

Heb 12:22 (RSV) says, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering".

The ESV says, "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering".

The KCSB says, "Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God (the heavenly Jerusalem), to myriads of angels in festive gathering".

> > 1.) The preparation day is the 14th of Nisan

To me, preparation day is the 13th of Nisan. The 14th is Passover, the feast day that starts at 6 PM on NIsan 13.

We need to keep in mind that for each Hebrew date, 12 hours of night precede 12 hours of day. If the Israelites in Egypt had not had blood on their doorposts at midnight on the 14th, their firstborn would have died.

Lev 23:5,6 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even (i.e., 6 PM on Nisan 13) is the LORD'S passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread".

> > the Seder (Passover meal) is celebrated. Jesus and the disciples took it > > an evening before, when the 14th of Nisan began.

Jesus ate the Last Supper in the night portion of Nisan 13. He was crucified in the following day portion of Nisan 13. He died as they started to kill the Passover lambs at the Temple "between the evenings" at 3 PM on Nisan 13. The lambs had to be roasted and eaten before midnight on Nisan 14 when they came out of Egypt or their firstborn would have died.

> > The Jews do not call the feast days according to the bible Feast of > > Passover and Feast of unleavened bread

That is true. If the Israelites in Egypt would have kept Passover like the Jews do today, their firstborn would have died at midnight.

> > They can also refer unleavened bread already to the preparation day, > > when they search the house for Chamutz and burn it in the morning
True. Nisan 13 was when they got rid of all Chamutz (leaven). The crucifixion was appropriate that day.

I Cor 5:7 says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us".

> > The Palm Sunday is tradition of the Roman Catholic Church and the bible > > does not say it was a Sunday.

We have to go by Scripture. The word Sunday is not in the KJV Bible. What we call Sunday followed the Saturday sabbath, and was called the first day of the week.

Mat_28:1 is clear. It says, "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week (i.e., Sunday), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."

> > At that time the High Priest was responsible for setting the time of
> > Passover, he did it with the help of two men from the Sanhedrin. This
> > has nothing to do with the annual Sabbath (15th of Nisan) or the
> > preparation day (14th of Nisan), which is not a Sabbath and the
> > Sanhedrin can gather, which they did.

Nisan 13 was preparation day. The Sanhedrin could meet.

Joh_19:14 says, "And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"

Joh_19:31 says, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

Joh_19:42 says, "There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand."

Nisan 14 was Passover. The Sanhedrin could not meet on feast days or the Sabbath. Passover was both a feast day and an annual Sabbath.

"They could meet on any day except the Sabbath and holy days, and they met from the time of the offering of the daily morning sacrifice until that of the evening sacrifice."
https://www.biblicaltraining.org/library/sanhedrin

The morning sacrifice started at 9 AM and the evening sacrifice started at 3 PM. Jesus died as the priests started killing the Passover lambs at 3 PM on Nisan 13.

> > The preparation day 2017 is Monday the 10th of April and the Sabbath
> > 15th of Nisan the 11th of April and the Resurrection Day is Thursday the
> > 13th of April.

13th of Nisan, 5777 (Preparation Day, Crucifixion) = Sun, 9 April 2017
14th of Nisan, 5777 (Passover) = Mon, 10 April 2017
15th of Nisan, 5777 (Unleavened Bread) = Tue, 11 April 2017
16th of Nisan, 5777 (Firstfruits, Resurrection) = Wed, 12 April 2017
http://www.hebcal.com/converter/?hd=16&hm=Nisan&hy=5777&h2g=1

> > Also after 3 days are after 3 full days and not less (Mat 27:63: Mar
> > 8:31).

"...by Jewish reckoning any part of a day is counted as a day."
biblelight.net/pasover.htm

"...any part of a day was counted as a whole day."
http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/81/t/three-days-and-three-nights

"In Jewish communal life part of a day is at times reckoned as one day"
www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5007-day

"Rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah, tenth in the descent from Ezra was very specific: 'A day and a night are an Onah ['a portion of time'] and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it' [J.Talmud, Shabbath 9.3 and b.Talmud, Pesahim 4a]"
http://christianthinktank.com/q3rdday.html

> > The Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord are the same. Jesus Christ is
> > Lord! When He comes back it is His day and called in the bible Day of
> > the Lord. It refers to His second coming.

To me, the Day of Christ and the Day of the Lord are not the same.

DAY OF CHRIST: FIRST RAPTURE, NO DARKNESS, THE MOON IS NOT TURNED INTO BLOOD

Php_1:6 says, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".

Php_1:10 says, "That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ".

Php_2:16 says, "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."

1Co_5:5 says, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

2Co_1:14 says, "As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus."

DAY OF THE LORD, SUN DARK, MOON TURNED INTO BLOOD, EARTH BURNED UP, ELIJAH MUST COME FIRST

Act_2:20 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come".

2Pe_3:10 says, "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Mal_4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (ELIJAH COMES AT THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE MID-TRIB).

Isa_13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty."

Isa_13:9 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."

> > Rev 2:18-22 does not say the wise virgins are kept from the Great
> > tribulation, but they can be sure, to be protected.

To me, the wise virgins are raptured Mid-Trib and the foolish virgins are raptured Post-Trib.

> > 2. Th 2:3 the departure (Greek apostasia) is a falling away from Christ
> > as the same word in Acts 21:21, which is translated "forsake Moses". The
> > meaning is a rebellion or falling away, also a departure is here to
> > depart from Christ (Luke 13:27).

I believe the departure, the First-Trump Rapture, will come when Moses and Elijah come back before the False Prophet is revealed Mid-Trib.

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise (i.e., in the Mid-Trib Rapture), and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (i.e., Moses and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation), clothed in sackcloth."

THE TRANSFIGURATION DEPICTS THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, WHEN MOSES AND ELIJAH COME BACK MID-TRIB

Mat 17:1-7 says, "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. 4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for MOSES, and one for ELIAS. 5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. 6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. 7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, ARISE, and be not afraid."

JOHN'S ACCOUNT OF THE RAPTURE "IN TRIBULATION"

Rev 1:9-18 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (i.e., the day of the Lord Jesus Christ), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

TO ME, THERE ARE TWO RAPTURES, MID-TRIB AND POST-TRIB

After the Mid-Trib Rapture, all the saints sing the new song.

Rev 5:9 says, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation".

After the last Rapture, only the 144,000 can sing the new song.

Rev 14:1-3 says, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth."

At the Post-Trib Rapture, "a great multitude, which no man could number" "came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes".

Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:14,15 says, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."

FIRST OF THREE RAPTURES, RESURRECTION DAY, 30 AD

Jesus took the OT saints to Heaven on Resurrection Day.

Luk 23:42,43 says, "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Eph 4:8-10 says, "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

SECOND RAPTURE, FOR WISE-VIRGINS, MAYBE PENTECOST, SUNDAY, JUNE 4, 2017

Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (i.e., MICHAEL, WHO COMES MID-TRIB, Rev. 12), and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

1Th 5:1-9 says, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. 8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. 9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath".

Mat 25:1-10 says, "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."

THIRD RAPTURE, INCLUDING FOOLISH VIRGINS

Mat 13:30 says, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

Mat 13:43 says, "Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Rev 6:12-17 says, "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand? "

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:14 These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Rev 14:14-16 says, "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped." Agape

   PC INDEX   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at: mjagee@verizon.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508

© 1996-2016, Marilyn J. Agee