Pro and Con 1960

Posted 1-11-16

INCOMING EMAIL, Re: Could there be 3 Raptures

Shalom!
I agree with you that we should keep the Feast of Passover according to the bible as Jesus did (Mat 26:18) and eat our Pesach Lamb (Holy Supper) on the eve of the 13th of Nisan after sunset, the beginning of Nisan 14th.

The Jews eat their meal (Seder) nowadays on the 15th, a night later than Jesus did. How it was in NT times I could not find till now. Interesting is that John called the feast Jewish Passover and not Lord's Passover (John2:13+6:4). The Jews have moved the feast of Passover and made it one with the feast of unleavened bread (Luke 22:1). But the preparation day refers to a Sabbath and Nisan 14 is and was no biblical Sabbath. You can google the 13th, 14th,15th and 17th of Nisan and hopefully discover your error of 13th Nisan as Crucifixion day. The first believers in Asia Minor kept the 14th and 17th of Nisan as their Passover, not removing one day and where heavily persecuted (Quartodeciman).

John 19:31 It was the preparation (14th) for the high Sabbath day, which refers to the 1. day of unleavened bread (15th) Lev 23:6+7

The Chamutz is burned on the 14th of Nisan 9.35 am in my calendar (Luach Zion Jerushalaim), why should it be different in 30 CE?

Mat 28:1 says in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn to...Clear is the Sabbath ends Saturday, when the new day begins. This is not Sunday morning.The word dawn therefore means here the beginning of the new day. This is at twilight. Greek epiphosko, the same as in Luke 23:54: "and that day was the preparation, when the Sabbath drew on (epiphosko).

Nisan the 9th Jesus was in Jericho and traveled Friday to Bethany. Jack Missler comes to the same conclusion (focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html).

I believe the Rapture is after the Tribulation (Mat 24:29-31). I think the only way to find the timing of the Rapture is through the First Resurrection, because Paul said,that the dead will rise first and together with the living be raptured. Further he said, that all will be changed in a twinkling of an eye. That proofs one Rapture together with the First Resurrection. The Bible says that this resurrection is after the Great Tribulation (Rev 20:4+5). The word protos means main or first of two, that happens 1000 years later. 1. Cor 15:23 tells us that is happens when the Lord comes at His Revelation.

MY REPLY

Shalom!

> > The Jews eat their meal (Seder) nowadays on the 15th

That's right. If the Israelites in Egypt had done that, their firstborn would have died at midnight on Nisan 14. The blood had to be on their doorposts before midnight on the 14th for the Lord to pass over them. I wonder when they changed.

Exo 12:5-8 is clear. It says, "Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening (lit., between the evenings). 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it. 8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it."

Exo 12:6 (YLT) says, 'And it hath become a charge to you, until the fourteenth day of this month, and the whole assembly of the company of Israel have slaughtered it between the evenings".

Between the evenings was 3 to 6 PM.

> > But the preparation day refers to a Sabbath and Nisan 14 is and was no biblical Sabbath.

Nisan 14 was the greatest Sabbath of all. All feast days are Sabbaths, and Passover was "an high day", i.e., an annual Sabbath.

Joh_19:31 says, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation (i.e., Nisan 13), that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (i.e., Nisan 14), (for that sabbath day was an high day [i.e., Nisan 14, Passover],) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

> > You can google the 13th, 14th,15th and 17th of Nisan and hopefully discover your error of 13th Nisan as Crucifixion day.

I am 88, and have spent much of my life since I was 30 proving that the Crucifixion was on Thursday, Nisan 13, Preparation Day.

John 19:31 clearly says, "it was the preparation that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an high day) ".

Joh 18:28 says, "Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover."

Mat 27:62-64 says, "Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, 63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again. 64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day".

ALL FOUR GOSPELS AGREE THAT THE CRUCIFIXION WAS ON THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, i.e., THURSDAY

Mat_27:62-64 says, "Now the next day (Friday, 'an high day', Passover), that followed THE DAY OF THE PREPARATION (Thursday), the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, AFTER THREE DAYS (i.e., after Thursday, Friday and Saturday) I will rise again (Sunday). 64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day (Sunday), lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead".

Mar_15:42 says, "And now when the even was come, because IT WAS THE PREPARATION (Thursday), that is, the day before the sabbath" (Friday, Passover, an annual Sabbath)."

Luk_23:54 says, "THAT DAY WAS THE PREPARATION (Thursday), and the sabbath (Friday, Passover) drew on."

Joh_19:14 says, "IT WAS THE PREPARATION (Thursday) OF THE PASSOVER (Friday), and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"

Joh_19:31 says, "The Jews therefore, because IT WAS THE PREPARATION (Thursday), that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day [Passover] was AN HIGH DAY,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

Maybe the Pharisees were to blame for the Jews keeping the wrong day. The Israelites had it right when they were in Egypt.

"AT THE BEGINNING OF THE EXILE THEY WERE COMBINED"

"The Encyclopedia Judaica admits that the Jews have fused the two observances and now keep Passover a day late on the 15th, observing it along with the first day of Unleavened Bread: "The feast of Passover consists of two parts: the Passover ceremony, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Originally, both parts existed separately; but at the beginning of the exile they were combined" (Vol. 13, "Passover," p. 169)."
http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/rightpassover.html

"PASSOVER ITSELF IS ALSO A 'SABBATH' OR REST DAY--NO MATTER WHAT WEEKDAY IT FALLS ON"

Dr. Tabor explained that "Jesus Died on a Thursday not a Friday... "The confusion arose because all the gospels say that there was a rush to get his body off the cross and buried before sundown because the "Sabbath" was near. Everyone assumed the reference to "the Sabbath" had to be Saturday—so the crucifixion must have been on a Friday. However, as Jews know, the day of Passover itself is also a "Sabbath" or rest day—no matter what weekday it falls on. In the year 30 AD Friday, the 15th of the Jewish month Nisan was also a Sabbath—so two Sabbaths occurred back to back—Friday and Saturday. Matthew seems to know this as he says that the women who visited Jesus’ tomb came early Sunday morning "after the Sabbaths" (Matthew 28:1)...

"THEY HUNG YESHUA THE NAZARENE ON EREV PESACH"

Dr. Tabor also said, "We also have a similar tradition in the Talmud which tells us, "They hung Yeshua the Nazarene on Erev Pesach"–which means on the "eve of Passover" (b. Sanhedrin 67a and 43a)"
http://messianicfellowship.50webs.com/rightpassover.html

> > Mat 28:1 says in the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn to...Clear is the Sabbath ends Saturday, when the new day begins. This is not Sunday morning. The word dawn therefore means here the beginning of the new day. This is at twilight.

Dawn is Sunday morning when the Sun comes up.

> > Nisan the 9th Jesus was in Jericho and traveled Friday to Bethany. Jack Missler comes to the same conclusion
(focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html).

On http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html, Chuck Missler wrote: "DAY ONE - FRIDAY -
"The 9th of Nisan
"We know from Luke 19:1 and Mark 10:46 that Jesus was in Jericho prior to traveling to Bethany. Jesus would have had to be in Bethany before sundown on Friday, since at sundown the Sabbath would start, and long-distance travel was not permitted on the Sabbath."

I think Jesus did not exceed a Sabbath days journey before reaching Bethany, which was on the eastern slope of the Mt. of Olives.

Bethany "was situated 'at' the Mount of Olives, Mr 11:1; Lu 19:29 about fifteen stadia (furlongs, i.e. 1 1/2 or 2 miles) from Jerusalem Joh 11:18 on or near the usual road From Jericho to the city"
http://www.bible-history.com/geography/ancient-israel/bethany.html

John 12:1 says, "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead."

Six days before Passover was Saturday.

> > I believe the Rapture is after the Tribulation (Mat 24:29-31).

I believe the Rapture of ITh 4:16,17 is Mid-Trib, and the Rapture of ICo 15:51-54 is Post-Trib.

At the first Rapture, the voice of the archangel is heard. Michael is the archangel.

Jud 1:9 says, "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

Michael comes Mid-Trib.

Rev 12:6-8 says, "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation). 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

> > "I think the only way to find the timing of the Rapture is through the First Resurrection, because Paul said,that the dead will rise first and together with the living be raptured.

The First Resurrection includes both Raptures.

> > Further he said, that all will be changed in a twinkling of an eye. That proofs one Rapture together with the First Resurrection. The Bible says that this resurrection is after the Great Tribulation (Rev 20:4+5). The word protos means main or first of two, that happens 1000 years later. 1. Cor 15:23 tells us that is happens when the Lord comes at His Revelation.

I think there are less than 1260 days between the two Raptures, because the Great Tribulation is to be shortened or no flesh would survive. The Second Advent is at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation, and it seems to take place on the Feast of Trumpets.

Moses and Elijah will prophesy 1260 days.

Rev 11:3 says, "And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

Protos can point to the preceding day or thing.
"4413 /protos ('first, foremost') is the superlative form of 4253 /pro ('before')".

www.dictionary.com/browse/proto
"Proto definition, a combining form meaning 'first,' 'foremost,' 'earliest form of,' used in the formation of compound words (protomartyr; protolithic; ... Greek, combining form representing protos first, superlative formed from pro; ... before vowels prot-, word-forming element meaning 'first, source, parent, preceding, earliest form'"
Rev 20:4-6 says, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

There are two Raptures in the First Resurrection. The Mid-Trib Rapture is in ITh 4:16,17. The Post-Trib Rapture is in ICor 15:51-54. We finally get our immortal bodies at the time of the last Rapture.

In 1Co 15:51-54, Paul said, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Agape

INCOMING EMAIL, RE: SEALS #2 THRU #6 ARE OPENED WITHIN A TEN DAY PERIOD

If , and only if, seal #2 is opened on the New Moon of Nisan 1, on March 29-30, 2017 which is the "sudden destruction" attack upon Israel by the Gog-Magog Army who is the red horseman ; then seals #2 through seal #6 will be opened between the next ten day period from Nisan 1 to Nisan 10 which is Saturday, Palm Sabbath April 7-8, 2017.

Revelation 2:10
"And you (Israel) will have tribulation TEN DAYS. Be faithful unto death, and I WILL GIVE YOU THE CROWN OF LIFE ( on Nisan 10 )." On what day do we all get our "Crown of Life"? The day of the rapture, of course !

The rapture of the faithful church/bride will then occur on Nisan 10, Palm Sabbath, Saturday April 6-7, 2017 which is one of the events occurring during seal #6. The great tribulation of the WHOLE WORLD will then commence AFTER THE RAPTURE when Jesus opens seal #7.

IS JESUS LOOKING FORWARD TO HIS OPENING THESE SEAL JUDGMENT EVENTS ?

Matthew 10:34
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. i did not come to bring peace, BUT A SWORD." (Jesus is speaking of the "great sword" of seal #2)

Luke 12:49-51
"I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled. Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth ? I tell you, NOT AT ALL." (Jesus speaking of His opening of seal #2)

Come Lord Jesus !

MY REPLY

> > If , and only if, seal #2 is opened on the New Moon of Nisan 1, on March 29-30, 2017 which is the "sudden destruction" attack upon Israel by the Gog-Magog Army who is the red horseman; then seals #2 through seal #6 will be opened between the next ten day period from Nisan 1 to Nisan 10 which is Saturday, Palm Sabbath April 7-8, 2017.

> > Revelation 2:10
"And you (Israel) will have tribulation TEN DAYS. Be faithful unto death, and I WILL GIVE YOU THE CROWN OF LIFE ( on Nisan 10 )." On what day do we all get our "Crown of Life"? The day of the rapture, of course!

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ" is written to "the seven CHURCHES which are IN ASIA" (Rev 1:1,4), not to Israel.

Rev 1:11 says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven CHURCHES which are IN ASIA; unto Ephesus, and unto SMYRNA, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."

Rev 2:8 says, "And unto the angel of the CHURCH in Smyrna".

"Smyrna...was an Ancient Greek city located at a central and strategic point on the Aegean coast of Anatolia. This place is known today as Izmir, Turkey."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smyrna

Therefore, I am shocked that you think the seals 1 through 6 could be opened BEFORE the first Rapture.

To me, the seals cannot be opened until after Jesus is given the seven-sealed book.

The First-Trump Rapture is the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev 4:1. The Last-Trump Rapture is the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev 11:12. There is no earthquake the first time, but there is a great earthquake the last time.

Jesus is not given the seven-sealed book until Rev 5:5-7. No seal can be broken before that.

Rev 5:5-7 says, "And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. 6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."

The first seal is opened in Rev 6:1. The sixth seal is opened in 6:12.

Rev 6:17 shows that the sixth seal is opened on the Day of God's Wrath. It says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The Day of God's Wrath is at the end of the Great Tribulation.

> > The rapture of the faithful church/bride will then occur on Nisan 10, Palm Sabbath, Saturday April 6-7, 2017 which is one of the events occurring during seal #6.

Seal 6 is when "the great day of his wrath is come" (Rev 6:17).

Rev 7:9 says, " AFTER THIS I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:14 says, "THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

That is the Last-Trump Rapture at the end of the Great Tribulation.

I agree with Lyn Mize on these:
Pentecost, Firstfruits Rapture of Church
Trumpets: Main Harvest Rapture of the Church
http://www.ffruits.org/bookofruth.html

Boaz was a type of the kinsman redeemer, Christ. He was winnowing barley the night Ruth (type of the Bride of Christ) lay at his feet. To me, this is a clue that the Firstfruits Rapture will be on Pentecost, when summer is nigh. Barley is not winnowed in Nisan.

There seem to be three Raptures in festal order, on Firstfruits in 30 AD, on Pentecost
Mid-Trib, and on Trumpets Post-Trib.

I Cor 15:23 (HCSB) says, "But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; afterward, AT HIS COMING, those who belong to Christ."

We are firstfruits.

Jam 1:18 says, "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures."

THREE HARVEST PHASES TO BE FULFILLED IN ORDER

1. Feast of Firstfruits, OT saints taken to Heaven in 30 AD
2. Feast of Pentecost, wise-virgins taken to Heaven Mid-Trib
3. Feast of Trumpets, foolish virgins taken to Heaven Post-Trib

Exo 23:14-17 says, "Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year. 15 Thou shalt keep the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib; for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:) 16 And the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year, when thou hast gathered in thy labours out of the field. 17 Three times in the year all thy males shall appear before the Lord GOD."

Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Rev 7:13,14 says, "And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

I think The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written as if the time is ten days before the Rapture.

Rev 1:1 says, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must SHORTLY come to pass".

Rev 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND."

Rev 22:6 says, "These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must SHORTLY be done."

Rev 22:10 says, "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND."

THE TRANSFIGURATION IS A PICTURE OF THE MID-TRIB RAPTURE WHEN MOSES AND ELIJAH ARRIVE ON EARTH

Mar 9:1-8 says, "And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. 2 And AFTER SIX DAYS (i.e., a day is as a thousand years) Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain (i.e., representing Saturn, Heaven) apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. 4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. 5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. 6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid. 7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. 8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves."

When Moses and Elijah are caught up on Trumpets, it will be close to time to build booths.

MT 17:1 ALSO SAYS "AFTER SIX DAYS"; LUK 9:28 SAYS, "ABOUT AN EIGHT DAYS"

Between six and eight days is seven. Could that be a hint that the First-Trump Rapture will be in 2017? I hope so. 1967 + 50 = 2017.

Moses and Elijah will arrive at the time of the Mid-Trib Rapture and prophesy during the Great Tribulation.

"RISE" IN REV 11:1 STANDS FOR THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, WHEN MOSES AND ELIJAH COME BACK MID-TRIB

Rev 10:11 says, "And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE (i.e., in the Mid-Trib Rapture), and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (i.e., Moses and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

THE GOG AND MAGOG ATTACK WILL COME ON THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH

Eze 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground." Agape

   PC INDEX   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at: mjagee@verizon.net

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508

© 1996-2017, Marilyn J. Agee