Pro and Con 1977

Posted 6-1-17

THE WORLD BEFORE ADAM

"The world before Adam can possibly be understood by studying the evidence of that world contained within the earth's strata. The Scriptures allude to such a world in the very briefest of terms. Bu there is some indication in the Bible that would lead us to understand that physical life on earth did exist before Adam. In the Septuagint version of the Old Testament book of Job we read of a dinosaur type of creature, which was originally created for a special purpose.

Notice: "Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are like bars of iron. He is the CHIEF of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan in his mouth. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares" (Job 40:15-24).

The Septuagint translation of the Old Testament Hebrew into the Greek language circa 250 B.C., during the reign of Ptolemy Philadelphus of Egypt. This creature is some kind of dinosaur, obviously. The account continues:

"He sets up his tail like a cypress; and his nerves are wrapped together. His sides are sides of brass; and his backbone is as cast iron. This is the chief of the creation of the Lord; made to be played with by his angels"(vs.12-14, LXX, vs.17-19, KJV).

Notice! This creature was created and existed during the time of the ANGELS! This would suggest that the angels ruled that ancient world before Adam was created."
http://www.triumphpro.com/life-on-earth-before-adam.htm

INCOMING EMAIL

Re: date of Pentecost 2017

Thanks for that, Marilyn.

I have followed your website for a long time.

I think you were right with the pretrib view.

I don't believe in the angel cities. I think there was only one flood. I'm currently reading Dispensational Truth by Clarence Larkin and I think the "gap" theory where the angels on the earth prior to Adam and Eve being created doesn't make sense nor the chaotic void needing (re)plenishing. I think it was nothingness not chaos that God created us out of.

I like your archangel theory although J Vernon McGee doesn't agree.

However I think it could be the voice of Gabriel not Michael. Why? Because Gabriel is always the announcing (arch)angel. Michael is the warrior who is guarding Israel until He stands still or stands aside as it says in Daniel 12 often wrongly translated as stand up. But this is when he does leave protecting Israel to go and turf the Devil out of heaven mid trib.

So devil can possess Antichrist and set him up in the temple. This is when Israelites need to flee to the mountains of Jordan- Selah, Bozrah and Petra etc.

Before Mid trib Michael is too busy. Therefore it must be Gabriel shouting and playing trumpet at the pretrib rapture.

Please check out High Time to Awake website by Craig C White:

http://hightimetoawake.com/

I don't agree with everything he says but he is right about Erdogan being the Antichrist ie Gog of Magog being the chief prince of Turkey and taking over Syria and in the vein of his Ottoman and Seleucid ancestors is hellbent on uniting Muslims as 12th Imam to fight and destroy Israel. (Istanbul or Constantinople was also the capital of the Eastern leg of the Roman Empire so it fits with the revived Roman Empire idea that many older Christians have had in past).

By the way I think the restrainer of Thessalonians is not the Holy Spirit but Michael. That would fit with him standing aside. The Holy Spirit will still be active during the Tribulation. The other possibility is it is the Body of Christ which is removed pretrib but I don't think this fits.

In the past you mentioned that Paul is probably referring to Stephen and not himself when he refers to "I knew a man who went to third heaven but not know how" ie he saw Stephen stoned. But recently you mentioned it was Paul himself.

So maybe you've forgotten or gone off the track as with this midtrib rapture idea.

I hope this helps set you back on a pretrib rapture and a full 7yr tribulation.

I agree though this could certainly be the year and Pentecost is looking very good.

I just read Song of Solomon again this morning ie come away with me so start of June fits perfectly.

Come soon Lord Jesus! God bless you

MY REPLY

Clarence Larkin was brilliant, and I love his charts, but keep in mind that he was born in 1850.

I think Pope Francis is the Antichrist. He is a man of the cloth, a clergyman.

Man of the cloth: "a member of the clergy and a spiritual leader of the Christian Church".
https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/man%20of%20the%20cloth

Rev 6:2 says, "I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow (toxon, plain fabric); and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

In the Gospel in the Sky, Cepheus, which represents Christ, the great king, is holding up a large piece of fabric to show that he is a religious leader.

Mat_7:15 says, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

The Pope wears a crown, and his badge of office is the woolen pallium.

> > I think it was nothingness not chaos that God created us out of.

Gen 1:1,2 says, "In the beginning God created (bara, to create out of nothing) the heaven and the earth."

That original creation was perfect.

Deu_32:4 says, "He is the Rock, HIS WORK IS PERFECT".

Job_38:7 says, "When the morning stars (i.e., planets) sang together, and all the sons of God (i.e., angels) shouted for joy?"

Isa 45:18 says, "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain (tohu), he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else."

After that, a catastrophe took place. I think an asteroid dug the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin. That catastrophe destroyed the dwellings of the angels that kept not their original estate.

Jud 1:6 says, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

Heb 2:1-5 says, "Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak."

EARTH BECAME DARK, WITHOUT FORM, AND EMPTY

Gen 1:2 says, "And the earth was (hayah, became) without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

THEN GOD "RENEWEST THE FACE OF THE EARTH"

Psa 104:30-32 says, "thou renewest the face of the earth. 31 The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works. 32 He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: he toucheth the hills, and they smoke."

Psa 104:35 says, "Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more."

Exo 20:11 says, "For in six days the LORD made (asah, to make out of already existing materials) heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

"WHO SHUT UP THE SEA WITH DOORS, WHEN IT BRAKE FORTH"..."WHEN I MADE THE CLOUD THE GARMENT THEREOF... AND BRAKE UP FOR IT MY DECREED PLACE"?

Job 38:4-11 says, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God (i.e., angels) shouted for joy? 8 Or WHO SHUT UP THE SEA WITH DOORS, WHEN IT BRAKE FORTH, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?"

Because of that catastrophe, earth became dark, empty and without form. Water and seashells were splashed over all the high hills.

I think it was because of the asteroid impact that dug the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin. All the materials on the Moon came from Earth. The only things missing are volatiles that would have boiled off in the heat of the asteroid impact. The surface has glass spherules formed by heat on it.

"The Hebrew scholars who wrote the Targum of Onkelos, the earliest of the Aramaic paraphrases of the Old Testament, rendered Genesis 1:2 with an Aramaic expression Dr. Custance translates as "and the earth was laid waste" (1988, p. 15). The original language evidently led them to understand that something had occurred which had "laid waste" the earth, and they interpreted this as a destruction....

"Perhaps the best treatment on both sides of this question is given by Dr. Custance in his book. He states: "To me, this issue is important, and after studying the problem for some thirty years and after reading everything I could lay my hands on pro and con and after accumulating in my own library some 300 commentaries on Genesis, the earliest being dated 1670, I am persuaded that there is, on the basis of the evidence, far more reason to translate Genesis 1:2 as ‘But the earth had become a ruin and a desolation, etc.’ than there is for any of the conventional translations in our modern versions" (p. 7)."
https://www.ucg.org/bible-study-tools/booklets/creation-or-evolution-does-it-really-matter-what-you-believe/earths-age

THE SIN OF LUCIFER, SATAN, "MADE THE WORLD AS A WILDERNESS, AND DESTROYED THE CITIES THEREOF"

Isa 14:12-17 says, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?"

Eze 28:12-18 says, "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus (i.e., Satan, king of the rock), and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering (i.e., surroundings), the sardius (Mercury), topaz (Venus), and the diamond (Earth), the beryl (Mars), the onyx (Rahab, now our Asteroid Belt), and the jasper (Jupiter), the sapphire (Saturn), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (i.e, on Rahab). 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth".

SOURCE OF THE DARKNESS OF GEN 1:2

Job 38:4-13 says, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God (i.e., angels) shouted for joy? 8 Or WHO SHUT UP THE SEA WITH DOORS, WHEN IT BRAKE FORTH, AS IF IT HAD ISSUED OUT OF THE WOMB? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and THICK DARKNESS A SWADDLINGBAND FOR IT, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place (i.e., the Pacific Basin), and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed? 12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring (shachar, dawn) to know his place; 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, THAT THE WICKED (i.e., wicked angels) MIGHT BE SHAKEN OUT OF IT?"

THERE WERE "CITIES, BUT "NO MAN", SO WHO BUILT THEM? ANGELS

Jer 4:23-29 says, "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, THERE WAS NO MAN, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and ALL THE CITIES THEREOF WERE BROKEN DOWN AT THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, AND BY HIS FIERCE ANGER. 27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. 28 FOR THIS SHALL THE EARTH MOURN, AND THE HEAVENS ABOVE BE BLACK: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. 29 The whole CITY shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: EVERY CITY SHALL BE FORSAKEN, and not a man dwell therein."

"THE WORLD THAT THEN WAS, BEING OVERFLOWED WITH WATER, PERISHED"

2 Peter 3:5,6 says, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished".

GOD CREATED EARTH "TO BE INHABITED"

Isa 45:18 says, "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain (tohu, waste, desolation, without form), he formed it to be inhabited".

THERE WERE CITIES ON EARTH BEFORE ADAM

There were cities that had been broken down by the "fierce anger" of the Lord. The mountains shook from that tremendous catastrophe.

Jer_4:23-26 says, "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form (tohu), and void (bohu); and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the CITIES thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and BY HIS FIERCE ANGER."

That is why Adam and Eve were told to "REPLENISH the earth" (Gen 1:28).

ANGEL CITIES

It is interesting to search the Internet for articles describing the ruins of some ancient cities in Turkey and northern Syria.

Angels are stronger then man. The Pyramid of Giza and the Sphinx date back to the Age of Leo. They were probably built by the angels.

Huge limestone T-shaped pillars have been found at Nevali Çori, Gobekli Tepe (hill), Karahan Tepe, Sefer Tepe, Hamzan Tepe and Tasli Tepe. Some were left unfinished in the quarries. What were they used for? and why were they abandoned?

At Gobekli Tepe, oldest city yet discovered, charcoal was radiocarbon dated 8800 BC. Leaving unexpectedly, the angels left unfinished limestone pillars in the quarries. Animals carved on the pillars are similar to those on earth today, but different in some respects. Butchered bones of deer, gazelle, pigs, and geese have been found.

Nevali Cori is classed as Pre-Pottery Neolithic B, and they used flint. The oldest domesticated Einkorn wheat was found there.

Catal Hoyuk existed from approximately 7500 BC to 5700 BC. It was inhabited by up to 8000 angels, has 2 mounds, abandoned before the bronze age. Excavations reveal this section of Anatolia as a centre of advanced culture in the Neolithic period. Houses were of mud-brick with plaster interiors. Cooking was on a hearth in a corner. Entry was by a door in the roof that also let out the smoke. Their pictures included aurochs (now extinct). Some had auroch heads mounted on the wall in their dwellings. Earliest known textile fragments and female figurines were found. The houses were built right up against each other and those who lived in them traveled over the rooftops and entered their homes through holes in the roofs, climbing down a ladder. The deceased were placed under the floors. Art is everywhere. There are geometric designs and representations of animals and people. Snakes are carved on some pillars, as in Gobekli Tepe.

They have found obsidian and flint at Asikli Hoyuk.

Many T-shaped limestone pillars have been found at Karahan Tepe (classed as Pre-Pottery Neolithic, 9500-6000 BC), and at Gobekli Tepe. (Adam was not created until about 4000 BC.)

The angels came from another planet. Maybe the pillars were used to sight on certain stars.

"During the ninth millennium BC the stars of Leo rose heliacally at the time of the spring equinox, exactly in line with the easterly orientation of the Lion Pillar Building."
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/Karahan.htm

Some other old cities were Basaran Hoyuk, Hamzan Tepe, Sefer Tepe, Gusir Hoyuk and Mureybet.

Mureybet (northern Syria) classified as Pre-Pottery Neolithic A, was occupied by hunter-gatherers who used flint between 10,200 and 8,000 BC, before Adam was created about 4000 BC.

I WAS WRONG WITH MY FORMER PRE-TRIB VIEW

All my teachers were Pre-Trib. I didn’t know anything else. All those authors of the books from BIOLA’s Seminary Collection I read for 7 years were Pre-Trib. Dr. Charles Fineburg was Pre-Trib. RW Thieme was Pre-Trib. Hal Lindsey was Pre-Trib. Chuck Swindoll, pastor of my church, Rolling Hills Covenant, was Pre-Trib.

I had a subscription to Israel Today when Joel Rosenberg changed his mind about a Pre-Trib Rapture and resigned. He now thinks the Rapture will be Pre-Wrath. At the time, I did not understand his new view. Later, I found out that he wrote "The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church", but I haven’t read it.

I finally quit reading so many books about the Bible and just read the Bible. I read 17 different versions all the way through, except the begats.

MY "WOW" MOMENT

What changed my mind in a flash is Rev 13:5-11. I suddenly noticed that "THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN" are there during the reign of Antichrist just before the False Prophet comes to power Mid-Trib.

Rev 13:5-11 (KJV) says, "And there was given unto him (i.e., Antichrist) a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (i.e., during the first half of the Tribulation). 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God (i.e., Pope Francis said that God was not divine), to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN (i.e., the wise-virgin saints).

7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints (i.e., the foolish virgins left behind), and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld ANOTHER BEAST (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet) coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

BLASPHEMY: OCT 28, 2014, VATICAN CITY

"God is not a divine being or a magician, but the Creator who brought everything to life," Pope Francis said. "Evolution in nature is not inconsistent with the notion of creation, because evolution requires the creation of beings that evolve." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/10/28/pope-francis-evolution-big-bang/18053509/

REVELATION IS WRITTEN AS IF THE RAPTURE WILL HAPPEN IN TEN DAYS

Rev 2:10 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and YE SHALL HAVE TRIBULATION TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

THE FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE OF ITH 4:16,17, Rev 1:9-11 AND REV 4:1 IS IN THE TRIBULATION

Rev 1:9-11 says, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion IN TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. 10 I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (i.e., Sunday), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega".

AT THE TIME OF THE MID-TRIB RAPTURE, THE CHURCH OF THYATIRA IS FACING THE GREAT TRIBULATION

Rev 2:22 says, "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds."

THE FIRST RAPTURE IS WHEN MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL IS PRESENT MID-TRIB

1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL (i.e., Michael, Jude 1:9), and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Dan 12:1 says, "And at that time (i.e., Mid-Trib) shall MICHAEL stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered (malat, escape, leap out, i.e., be raptured), every one that shall be found written in the book."

Rev 12:6-12 says, "And the woman fled into the wilderness (i.e., Mid-Trib), where she hath a place (i.e., Petra) prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation). 7 And there was war in heaven: MICHAEL and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, NOW (arti, just now, i.e., Mid-Trib) IS COME SALVATION (soteria, rescue, deliverance, i.e., the Rapture) and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore REJOICE, YE HEAVENS, AND YE THAT DWELL IN THEM."

MORE PROOF OF THE MID-TRIB RAPTURE

John talked about the Mid-Trib Rapture in Rev 4:1, then Rev 10:11 says, "And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy AGAIN before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

Therefore, the "RISE" in Rev 11:1 is the "COME UP HITHER" of Rev 4:1, the Mid-Trib Rapture. The timing is locked in, because after it, Moses and Elijah prophesy 1260 days. Then, they are caught up in Rev 11:12 after the 1260-day Great Tribulation.

Rev 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE, and measure the temple of God (i.e., we are the Temple of the Holy Spirit), and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. 3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses (i.e., Moses and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days (i.e., during the Great Tribulation), clothed in sackcloth."

TWO RAPTURES, THE FIRST ON THE DAY OF CHRIST MID-TRIB AND THE LAST ON THE DAY OF THE LORD POST-TRIB

The First Trump Rapture is in ITh 4:16,17. The Last Trump Rapture is in ICo 15:51-54. I think the First-Trump Rapture will take place on the Day of Christ just before the False Prophet comes to power Mid-Trib. The Last-Trump Rapture will take place on the Day of the Lord post-trib.

There is no earthquake at the First-Trump Rapture, but a great earthquake happens at the Last-Trump Rapture.

The two witnesses will come back to earth at the time of the First-Trump Rapture, and will be caught up in the Last-Trump Rapture on the Day of the Lord at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation.

Rev 11:12,13 says, "And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

> > I don't believe in the angel cities. I think there was only one flood.

Then please explain some verses to me.

When did the Lord "divide the sea" and make "summer and winter"?

Psa 74:12-17 says, "For God is my King of old, working salvation in the midst of the earth. 13 Thou didst DIVIDE THE SEA by thy strength: thou brakest the heads of the dragons in the waters. 14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness. 15 Thou didst cleave the fountain and the flood: thou driedst up mighty rivers. 16 The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. 17 Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: THOU HAST MADE SUMMER AND WINTER."

WHEN WAS SATAN WOUNDED IN "THE GENERATIONS OF OLD"?

Isa 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (chatsab, split) Rahab (i.e., Satan’s planet, now our Asteroid Belt), and wounded the dragon?"

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (i.e., Babylon) and whom hast thou here (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (i.e., Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (i.e., in the asteroid Wormwood) 17 Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. 18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. 19 And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

When did the Lord "shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?" When did he break up for it his "decreed place"?

Job 38:4-11 says, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; 7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God (i.e., angels) shouted for joy? 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?"

When did the Lord chain the angels that sinned?

2Pe 2:4 says, "For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment".

Jud_1:6 says, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

> > Before Mid trib Michael is too busy. Therefore it must be Gabriel shouting and playing trumpet at the pretrib rapture.

Gabriel is not called an archangel in the Bible. The word "archangel" only appears twice in the Bible.

1Th_4:16 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first".

Jud_1:9 says, "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee."

> > In the past you mentioned that Paul is probably referring to Stephen and not himself when he refers to "I knew a man who went to third heaven but not know how" ie he saw Stephen stoned. But recently you mentioned it was Paul himself.

It was Paul. 2Co 12:1-7 is clear when I read the whole thing.

2Co 12:1-7 says, "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me. 7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure."

> > So maybe you've forgotten or gone off the track as with this midtrib rapture idea.

I am now convinced that Scripture indicates that the Rapture is Mid-Trib, just before the False Prophet takes command.

> > I hope this helps set you back on a pretrib rapture and a full 7yr tribulation.

The Tribulation is 7 years, but there are two Raptures, Mid-Trib on the Day of Christ and Post-Trib on the Day of the Lord.

FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE, WHEN MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL COMES MID-TRIB

1Th 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Php_1:10 says, "That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ"

Php_2:16 says, "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."

2Th_2:2 says, "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand."

LAST-TRUMP RAPTURE, POST-TRIB, WHEN WE WILL GET OUR IMMORTAL BODIES

1Co 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Agape

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