Pro and Con 302
Uploaded 4-12-99, PM
Incoming Email congratulations on posting an absolutely stunning web site. I now understand much end time scripture alot clearer due to your diligent efforts. I was wondering whether you have any views on the manner in which the rapture takes place. Most Christians believe that they will simply vanish off the earth "... In the twinkling of an eye..." I Corinth 15:52. Do you think perhaps that our corruptible bodies get left here?I mean since we get incorruptible and immortal bodies why take the garbage? I base this view on I Corinth 15:40-54 God bless you
My reply Wow! thanks for the kudos. I try hard to understand the scriptures and pass it on. I also am now very much indebted to people that feed me information by email. I learn more by the added input than I would on my own. It is strange how God brings information to me that I need to see through something that I did not fully understand before. I have stumbled over an article in a magazine in the doctor's office, by snail mail and all kinds of other ways. When I need to place another puzzle piece into the whole picture, somehow that piece falls into my hands or comes to mind. Sometimes the person feeding me information does not see in it what it causes me to see. You know that is under God's control.
In the Rapture, I think that we will just go up and disappear into the clouds as Jesus did. Neither Enoch nor Elijah left a body behind. However, the Rapture will be seen. Psa. 40:1-3 shows that many will see it, fear, and trust in the Lord. When Paul was taken to the third heaven, he didn't even know if he was in the body or out of the body. He said that the Lord knows. I Cor. 15:51,52 is talking about the change. It is in the twinkling of an eye. The Rapture does not have to happen that fast, but our change does.
Incoming Email Re: PROOF OF RAPTURE DATE
I just wanted to thank you for your answer to the person requesting proof of the rapture date that you are suggesting. I agree with your conclusions and have for some time, but it really helps to reinforce the conclusions as you explain ONCE AGAIN how you reached them. I very much appreciate your patience in continuing to answer those who, obviously have not read all of your Pro and Cons or your books.
I appreciate repeated explanations because my memory is getting pretty rusty and even though I'm taking Aricept, I still have problems. When I read something over and over again and also as you keep discovering new things and adding them, it is very helpful. I should be able to get the events ordered in my mind - 1-2-3-etc. but find that there are so many that I often get confused.
I am very much looking forward to May 22, 1999, however, as I can think of no greater joy than being with Jesus, where perfect memory will not required or at least where previously normal memory will be restored. I just continue to confess all sins I am aware of and pray that I will be counted worthy to go when the Lord calls.
Thank you again for the dedicated work that you are blessing those of us with, who continue to seek the Lord's messages in the Scriptures. In His love
Incoming Email At the begging of this year our pastor spoke about the times we are living in, and that we are living in the most dangerous time ever, his point was that the Lord could come at any time now.
He quote Gen. 6:3 ...that man's days shall be 120 years. He said to multiply 120 years by 50 years gives you 6000 years and that 6000 years has now gone by.
I don't remember the whole sermon but 120 x 50 is interesting. I can not remember if it was 50 Pentecost years or 50 Jubilee years. GOD BLESS
My reply I have a video someone nice sent me. If I remember right it was Charles Capps that multiplied 120 by 50 Jubilees to get 6000 years. He also added 8.2 months to that, but I have not gotten it straight in my head how the latter was figured. If anyone knows, please tell me. Anyway, it is in the ballpark.
I think the 6000th year ended last Sept. 21 and Pentecost is kept on Sivan 6 and 7, May 21 and 22, 1999, eight months later. From the Feast of Trumpets to Pentecost on the Jewish calendar, there are (1) Tishri, (2) Cheshvan, (3) Kislev, (4) Teveth, (5) Shevat, (6) Adar, (7) Nisan, (8) Iyar plus six or seven days of Sivan. Thirty days in a month times .2 equals 6 days. I think that as soon as that period is over, the Rapture will take place on Sivan 7, our May 22.
Therefore, I agree with the conclusion, but disagree on how it was figured. I think the Jubilee is actually a 49-year cycle. The 50th day is also the first day of the next cycle. Maybe your idea of Pentecost years would actually fit better.
Incoming Email No 40th birthday? (Jim Bramlett)
Recently, Kansas businessman friend and fellow "watchman," Bruce Kessler, decided to go fishing.
Unknown to him, another fellow whom he had never met, Doug Prentice, somewhere else in the area, was thinking about going fishing. He really didn't want to go, but he sensed the Holy Spirit strongly say "go." He resisted, and heard the Spirit again say, "go." He decided he'd better go.
With incredible timing, as soon as Doug arrived at his fishing spot, he saw Bruce in the parking lot. They immediately struck up a conversation. Sensing that this was a divine encounter and that the Lord was in this, Doug asked, "By the way, are you a Christian?" This began several hours of talking about the Lord. Doug "just happened" to be experiencing a personal problem which Bruce had also experienced, and Bruce greatly ministered to him, and they have become good friends. (I spoke with both Bruce and Doug yesterday and confirmed this story.)
Bruce also told Doug of the Lord's soon return, and shared the many reasons why. Doug then said, "Then that explains what the Lord told me recently!" He explained:
Doug said he was recently at a point in his life where he did not know how he would be able to take care of his children after January. (His 40th birthday is January 12, 2000.) He said he prayed and asked the Lord about it -- how was he going to do it.
Doug says the Lord answered and told him not to worry about seeing his 40th birthday and having to care care of his kids after the year 2000, because His coming is near.
(Doug was unsure of the precise wording or I would have it in quotes as I have in other encounters, but Doug says that is the gist of what he heard.)
The information Bruce shared made Doug better understand the word he had received from the Lord. Bruce believes that many Biblical signs point to 1999 for the "catching up" of the bride (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
Incoming Email "The last minute" (Jim Bramlett)
The below message came to me last night. I sense that it is a credible and valid word. See my note and speculative calculation at end.
How are things with you .... once again we want to say thank you for your diligence in screening, editing and forwarding good information to us.
We had an experience last evening and thought you might like to hear what the Lord had to say.
My wife Esther has been hearing from the Lord for many years now, but we do not make a habit of publicizing it. But last night while we and a friend were in prayer the Lord started to speak through her.
She felt a very heavy anointing, with a sense of urgency in her spirit. The Lord said that we are no longer in the last hour but we are in the last minute - He said this several times. He said that He was cleaning up His body because it is very dirty and blotchy. There are those that are being called to minister to the body to clean them up to be part of the Bride
He said that the trumpet will sound .. that Jesus will appear .. that the dead in Christ will arise first and those that remain will be caught up to meet Him .. that this will happen very quickly now ...and again He emphasized that this is the last minute ... that we are to keep our eyes upon the eastern sky for He is coming very quickly now.
Esther has not had an end time word before so this was very special. We see more and more that God is doing new things in our lives and all around us. While she was still under this very heavy anointing, the Lord also gave us more specific information regarding the ministry He has given us. Once again He is using ordinary people the "nobodies" to do His work!!
It is so exciting to be a part of these last days ... may God continue to richly bless you, your family and your ministry. We join you on the wall ... watching the eastern sky for His soon coming.
Love, Ken & Esther
Incoming Email Eve Berry wrote:
Dear Marilyn, I read your Pros and Cons and find them stimulating. You are obviously so dedicated. However, I do have some different convictions to yourself and I feel a duty to pass these on. Please do not totally disregard what I have to say as it may be that it will help you to make sense of things a little later on.
I know that you have a real knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures but I feel led to offer my little piece of the puzzle. The Lord has removed some of the 'Seals' for me and has shown me some wonderful truths from the Word of God, (particularly the NT) and I would love to pass these on to you. I have actually written three books which our gracious Lord and Saviour wrote through me as before I began I didn't know even a fraction of what I wrote. I learned as I went. What a blessedness. He showed me truths about the Word of God, the setting out of the books in the NT, "...rightly dividing the Word of Truth." and so much more. It was at once the most exciting, awe-inspiring, thrilling, frightening and explosive feeling I have ever had. I felt that I couldn't contain what was 'bursting' within me on it's way to print.
You quote I John 1:9 as being an instruction to the Lord's people, and a necessary requirement for them to 'keep short accounts with the Lord' and be taken at the rapture of the Bride of Christ. Marilyn, I John is written to Israel, after the Rapture, when Israel is again taken up by the Lord. Chapter 1 begins with an abbreviated version of the opening of John's Gospel. It is written to Israel - UNSAVED people, and tells them how to get saved; they must admit they have sin - v.8 and confess it, v.9. Verse 9 also says, "...cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness." This then is something which is complete and happens once. THIS IS SALVATION when the Lord's righteousness is imputed to them! It is not a foot washing for Christians!
The Laodiceans are not back-slidden Christians, they are 'nominal' Christians, or Christians in name only. (A Christian could never be described as "...wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.) The Lord offers them true riches (His salvation), white raiment that the shame of their nakedness does not appear (His righteousness), and eye salve that they may see (John 3:5 "...except a man be born again he cannot see..."). They are told that the Lord chastens, "...As many as I love....". This is a link to Heb 12:6-8 where the Lord says "...For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and SCOURGETH EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVETH....But if ye be without chastisement...then are ye...not sons." The Laodiceans are not yet saved. The Lord is also 'outside' whereas He is indwelling every saved person and then He says "...if any man hear my voice...". John 10:27 says "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me" and John 18:37 says, at the end of that verse, "...Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice." These people don't yet hear the voice of the Lord, because they are not His.
The first Rapture is silent and unseen, as Enoch's 'translation' was. "And Enoch walked with God and he was not; for God took him." Is. 57:1-3 and S.of S. 2:8-14 describe the first Rapture. Then the Lord's people come "...out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke...." The second Rapture is seen (Is. 26:19,21) as recorded in Rev. 11:12. S.of S. 8:5 shows the little sister as the coming "...out of the wilderness, leaning upon her beloved...".
The Bride group will be very small - possibly a ratio of 2 from 3,000,000, as that is the way it was when only 2 entered the Promised Land alive, and the rest of the adult population had to perish in the wilderness.
The first 10 verses of I Cor. 10 are really to be heeded as they show why a whole generation perished and were not allowed to enter the Promised Land: they are the examples showing us why people will be left here after the Rapture.
Note that "...all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;...were all baptized unto Moses...did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." They were all the Lord's people, and all were given the same salvation, nourishment, and therefore opportunities. "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness."
"Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolators, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them tempted, and were destroyed of serpents, Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer." Paul then says again, in verse 11, just in case we missed it in verse 6, "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."
Verse 14 tells us to "...flee from idolatry" and then verse 15 says "I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say." Or, we could paraphrase this and say 'Only the wise will understand what I am going to say; I am speaking to them, and even they must weigh this up carefully, as it is not easy to understand. The unwise will not understand, and the wise, must pay special heed.' (Paul said it better!) Now obviously the following is going to be an example of idolatry, which we are to flee from: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread."
We are being told here that we do not drink something in a ceremony (called Communion, or The Lord's Supper). Our 'cup of blessing' is the communion of, or actual intimate contact with, Christ's blood; in which we are washed and have become 'one with Him'. This is not something which takes place at, or is to be enacted in, a ceremony; salvation is our cup of blessing. Christ drank our 'cup of wrath' on the Cross. This was not an actual, physical cup; but was that to which He referred in the garden of Gethsemane when He prayed "...Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done." Our 'bread' is the communion of, or fellowship with, Christ's body (first His literal, physical Body broken for us, and then, after our salvation, also His Body, 'the invisible church'; made up of every born-again believer, of which we are then a part). "For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." Because we have 'eaten of the Bread of Life', which is Jesus, we are all now 'one bread', the Body of Christ; and so although many, we are 'one'. John 6:33-58
Verses 18-21 are warning us that '...the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils." Now it is obvious that Paul is talking about something different from the food and drink to which he was referring in I Cor. 8 and Romans 14, as in those chapters he said that food and drink was not spiritually 'tainted' by the idols to which it had been offered. Here he is saying that we must not have fellowship with devils, and that which has been offered to devils, or we may be provoking the Lord to jealousy.
Obviously the 'drink' and 'table' of verses 16-21 are not a part of ordinary meals as in Verse 25 Paul tells us, yet again, that it is not wrong to eat the things which have been offered to idols, even at a pagan feast, as long as in doing so we don't offend a weaker brother.
Being a pataker in the ceremony known as Communion or the Lord's Supper is fornication because you are joining yourself to an harlot, the Church; idolatry as Paul is telling us that this is an offering to devils and the table of devils You also may be provoking the Lord to jealousy, which is tempting Him....
Would the Lord, who has such strong prohibitions against drinking blood, have His dear children drink blood, 'in type'? The answer is a most resounding NO. He does not advocate doing something in a figure which He has prohibited in fact. See Lev. 7:26 "...eat no manner of blood..."....
Marilyn, your zeal and desire to please the Lord is so evident in your writings and the work and sacrifices you make to warn others - I hate to think that after preaching to so many you might yourself be castaway.
The Lord's Supper came out of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, "...with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication."...
I Cor. 11:19 says "For there must be also heresies among you, THAT THEY WHICH ARE APPROVED MAY BE MADE MANIFEST AMONG YOU." (The 'approved' have overcome. The heresies 'sifted'.) I Cor. 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient...". We are saved and can legally do what we want, (we cannot lose our salvation), but if we want to be in the small 'elect' Bride, then it is not expedient to go along with these things. We will miss out on the first Rapture!
Water Baptism is another 'doctrine' which is greatly in error. It also is not a harmless physical enactment of a spiritual truth, it is something which will be used to mislead "all the world" - it is a necessary tool of Satan...
You may publish any or all of this on your site if you wish.
Sincerely, in Christ, Eve.
> You quote I John 1:9 as being an instruction to the Lord's people, and a necessary
> requirement for them to 'keep short accounts with the Lord' and be taken at the
> rapture of the Bride of Christ. Marilyn, I John is written to Israel, after the
> Rapture, when Israel is again taken up by the Lord.
Eve, be careful not to be deceived as the first Eve was. Look to the Bible for answers. When you read another author, search the Bible and see if those things are so. I do not think First John could possibly be "after the Rapture." I John 3:2 says, "Beloved, now are WE (including John) the sons of God, and it doth NOT YET APPEAR what we shall be (future tense): but we know that, WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR (i.e., at the future Rapture), we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
The antichrist has not yet come. I John 2:18,19 says, "Little children (teknea, born ones), IT IS THE LAST TIME (year, Rev. 12:6,14): and as ye have heard that ANTICHRIST SHALL COME (in the still future Tribulation), even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the LAST TIME (year). They went out from us, but they were not of us." They are alive, but not yet in office. Verse 20 continues, "But ye (last generation born ones) have an unction (annointing) from the Holy One, and ye KNOW ALL THINGS."
> It is written to Israel - UNSAVED people, and tells them how to get saved; they must
> admit they have sin - v.8 and confess it, v.9. Verse 9 also says, "...cleanse us from
> ALL unrighteousness." This then is something which is complete and happens once. THIS
> IS SALVATION when the Lord's righteousness is imputed to them! It is not a foot washing
> for Christians!
It is written to "Brethren" (2:7). In the NT, brethren are believers. In the church there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Rom. 10:9,10 tells how to be saved, and it does not say "they must admit they have sin...and confess it." Here is what it does say: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth THE LORD JESUS, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." At the point of salvation, we have to confess the Lord Jesus, not sins. If we confess the Lord Jesus, all old sins are washed away.
> The Laodiceans are not back-slidden Christians, they are 'nominal'
> Christians, or Christians in name only.
They are Christians because they have to be in Christ to be spewed out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16). Even the foolish virgins had lamps and some oil.
> They are told that the Lord chastens, "...As many as I love....". This is a link to
> Heb 12:6-8 where the Lord says "...For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and
> SCOURGETH EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVETH.
Then they have been received as sons. Christians are chastened here for they will never be chastened in Heaven. Don't forget that this message is to "the CHURCH of the Laodiceans." It is not addressed to nonbelievers.
> The first Rapture is silent and unseen
I think the first Rapture will be seen. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (out of the Earth), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (the heavenly planet), and established my goings. And he hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."
> The Bride group will be very small - possibly a ratio of 2 from
> 3,000,000, as that is the way it was when only 2 entered the Promised Land alive
Don't forget the children that had matured during the 40 years.
> "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our
> admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh
> he standeth take heed lest he fall."
The Laodiceans think they stand. They need to take heed lest they fall.
> We are being told here that we do not drink something in a ceremony (called Communion, or
> The Lordıs Supper).... Would the Lord, who has such strong prohibitions against drinking
> blood, have His dear children drink blood, 'in type'? The answer is a most resounding NO.
Sorry, but the Lord is the one to follow, not you. He said, "THIS DO YE, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come" (I Cor. 11:25,26).
> I hate to think that after preaching to so many you might yourself be castaway.
Don't worry about me. I know the Lord and I know the scriptures.
> The Lord's Supper came out of MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT
Satan always tries to counterfeit the true to confuse mankind. Go by Scripture and not by what Satan has put forth.
> I Cor. 11:19 says "For there must be also heresies among you, THAT
> THEY WHICH ARE APPROVED MAY BE MADE MANIFEST AMONG YOU."
Be careful not to believe these heresies. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (II Tim. 2:15).
> Water Baptism is another 'doctrine' which is greatly in error.
Then please tell me why Jesus was baptized? Why does Acts 2:41 say, "They they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls"? Why did Peter command "them to be baptized in the name of the Lord" in Acts 10:48? Why did Jesus say, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Mt. 28:19)?
Incoming Email Joel 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. Shout for JOY!!!! the bridegroom cometh!!!!
My reply I feel like shouting too. The door is open. The Lord is near.
Joel 2:15-17 is talking about the day of the Marriage of the Lamb. It is the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium. Before the verse you quoted, verse 15 says, "Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast (the Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly." This is the call that goes out in Mark 13:27: "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (those that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture). This fits v. 16 that you quoted too.
On this day, Christ is crowned, then the Marriage of the Lamb takes place. Following that is the Judgment Seat of Christ. Verse 17 speaks of it: "Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?" It seems that just as Esther was able to save her people, the Bride will have a part in the judicial decision to save Israel.
Then the seven trumpet judgments are sent upon Earth. The UN army that is attacking Israel is stopped. It takes seven months to bury the dead to cleanse the land for the glorious return of Christ. Agape
Incoming Email Re: setting dates?
> > well since you believe that you know the date of the rapture gave me proof why
> > it will happen on the date you say, i am very interested. i also have studied
> > the bible thouroughly. and my favorite topic is eschatology. but i will be
> > looking foreward to your reply.
Well, I am glad you shared this with me. I have aweless thought that the rapture would happen arround the year 2000 but i never really tried to put it all together. as awalys i will have my eyes open on may 22 im not saying agree with you setting dates or anything but i agree fully that we are very close and im excited and well when it happens i'll see you in heaven i don't really have much else to say but have a good day in the Lord. God Bless
Pro and Con 303 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: firstname.lastname@example.org
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110
© 1998, 1999, Marilyn J. Agee