Pro and Con 303

Uploaded 4-14-99, PM

Note: Ed's mother went to be with the Lord today, Wed., April 14, 1999. Thanks for all your prayers in her behalf. I'm sure the Lord did what was best for her. At least we don't have long to wait to see her again.

Incoming Email

Troy Geri wrote: Subject: God's Plan:
I e-mailed you earlier this week. I have been visiting your site now for about two weeks and I cannot tell you enough what a revelation this has been for me. I have often read parts of the bible in the past but not really understood in depth what I was really reading. Since visiting your site it is like I have taken off a blindfold and am actually seeing for the first time. I am literally thunderstruck and in awe of my God and his mighty plan which I can now see the bible maps out for us. it is quite interesting what you said in an earlier pro about this year really being one of testing and Satan trying to sift us like wheat. I had strayed from my Father for many years (I am only 27 years old) and recently felt strongly called back to God and began attending Baptist Church in my area (Wattle Grove, NSW, Australia). I don't believe it is coincidence that God has called out to my heart at this time, I believe he is drawing as many of his flock together in preparation for the rapture. It was only around three months ago that this calling came upon me. It was a very strong prompting, almost a push, to reaffirm my commitment to God. I have been in awe of him ever since. From the time of returning to church Satan has been throwing everything he possibly can to try and undermine my faith, including skepticism from my wife and attacking my known weaknesses of the past. But I stand firm in the midst of this battle, I shall not forsake my merciful Father, I often call to mind the verse from Psalms, "Finally my brethren, be strong in the lord and in the power of his might, put on the whole armour of God that you may be able to withstand the wiles of the Devil". I am wearing Gods armour in preparation for the rapture. I would ask for you and all other believers who visit this site to pray for my wife, that she may come to the Lord swiftly, so that we may be raptured as a family in Gods love (myself, our beautiful nine month old daughter and my wife). All things are possible with God even when it seems hopeless, I do not give up faith, day or night that the Lord will answer my prayers and bring my wife under his embracing wing. I would appreciate the prayers and support of my Brethren. My wife's name is Carol, My name is Troy. Thank you all in God's agape love.
Regards, Troy Geri

My reply

Thanks for all your nice comments.

> I believe he is drawing as many of his flock together in preparation for the rapture.
> It was only around three months ago that this calling came upon me. It was a very
> strong prompting, almost a push, to reaffirm my commitment to God

I am so happy to hear this. I hope it is happening all across the world. This is reason enough to give us this year to straighten up and fly right.

> Satan has been throwing everything he possibly can to try and undermine my faith,
> including skepticism from my wife and attacking my known weaknesses of the past.

I hear of this testing from many quarters. We just have to withstand it as Job did. Satan is probably going to and fro on the Earth watching us just as he watched Job. The Lord is faithful. Job was rewarded with twice what he had before. We will be rewarded too if we stand pat, no matter what happens.

I added Carol to my prayer list, and I know others will too....
Agape

Incoming Email

I know how busy you are, but I have read so much volume, lately, my mind is cluttered. If you know where it is off the top of your head, can you point me to where you wrote about how and why the year 5759 is actually 6001 (i.e., reconciliation of the difference of 242 years). I have all of your books, and my recollection is that it is in one of them. If you don't have the time, I understand. In the meantime, I will be looking for it. I'm getting ready to witness to someone, and I am scared to death because I don't know all what I am going to say. Love and Light from Christ, our Savior

My reply

I have my Bible Chronology at http://www.pe.net/~mjagee/chron.html. When I worked on that, every year from Adam to the Crucifixion was charted by hand. I started with a lined spiral notebook, made vertical divisions, and labeled each resulting rectangle with AH, BC/AD, and Jewish Years.

However, later on, after I got spreadsheet capability on my computer, I made another chart on my computer. I used headings of AH years (years of man), BC years, and JE (Jewish Era years). I started with the beginning of the Jewish Talmudic Calendar Oct. 7, 3761 BC, and worked both forward and backward, assigning BJE (before Jewish Era) numbers in the same manner that we use BC. Because there is no zero year between BC1 and 1 AD, I did not put one in between my BJE and JE years. It was after I was on the Internet and did not have time to do every year. Therefore, after a certain point, I added blocks of years to arrive at the total. It agreed with my hand-drawn chart. Then, I cut out sections and made out what would fit on one page for my own ready reference. Maybe you would like to see a similar page. I don't know how to put it in a neat table without jogs, but I'll do the best I can for you.

AH yr.-- BC yr.-- BJE yr.
0------4044/43-----283 Adam created on Fri, last day of zero year.
1------4043/42-----282 (God rested on Sat. Sabbath, Tishri 1, 4044 BC.)
2------4042/41-----281
3------4041/40-----280
4------4040/39-----279
5------4039/38-----278
6------4038/37-----277
7------4037/36-----276
8------4036/35-----275
9------4035/34-----274
10-----4034/33-----273
...
20-----4024/23-----263
...
30-----4014/13-----253
...
40-----4004/03-----243 Adam left Garden; man became mortal; 6000-yr test began

...
282----3762/61---BJE 1
283----3761/60----JE 1 Jewish Calendar began Oct. 7, 3761 BC
...
2040---2004/03----1758 = 2000th year of the mortality of man
...
4040---4/3 BC-----3758 = 4000th year of the mortality of man
...
6040--1997/98 AD--5758 = 6000th year of the mortality of man
________________________________________________________________
Double check: 6000 yrs - BC 4004/03 +1 because no zero yr. = 1997/98 AD (5758 JE).

I think man's test before the Rapture is 6000 years being mortal and knowing both good and evil. It looks like the Rapture will be the following Pentecost (Sivan 7, 5759, May 22, 1999) after the 6000-year test is COMPLETE. If the test was completed in 5758, the Rapture should come in 5759, which started Sept. 21, 1998 and changes to 5760 on Sept. 11, 1999.

Some say that from Adam's creation to Abraham's birth was 2000 years. According to Martin Anstey, Abraham was born in 2008 AH. I agree. The 2000-year estimate is only off by 8 years. Then they say that from Abraham to Christ was 2000 years. I think Jesus was born Tishri 1, 4039 AH (in our BC 5). That is off more (4039 AH - 2008 AH = 2031 years, instead of 2000). Just because something seems likely doesn't make it so. I think the Lord didn't want to make things so obvious that the wicked could understand. Only the wise are to understand.

Her reply

I know I'll never be able to thank you enough; I am so new to studying scripture that some information is just over my head, but I pray to understand. I was trying to understand more about this 6,000 year test when I ran across the following web site:

http://gracenet.com/lamp/DEFAULT.HTML

On this page, the author has a FOUNDATIONAL STUDY entitled Genesis 1:2, which explains why and how the 6,000 year span is important. It is not an easy read for me, but you would probably get it all pretty quickly. As far as I could tell, his material doesn't conflict with yours, but I haven't read it all, yet.

I appreciate your response knowing how busy you are. I have had increasing tests these last few months, so either something vast and sweeping is going to happen, or I'm cracking up. I'm hanging in there, but I know that as we draw closer, the tests will be greater. My faith is pretty sound, but only because of God's Grace; certainly, it's not because of anything I have done. God Bless You and Your Family! Love and Light from Christ, our Savior!

My reply

I agree with his conclusions, which follow:
---
Subsequent Scripture will support only one position:

Creation (an absolute creation [v. 1]).

A Ruin of the creation (which means that the "waw" beginning v. 2 must be understood in a disjunctive sense ['But'], and the Hebrew word hayah must be understood in the sense of "became [or 'had become']" [v. 2a]).

A Restoration of the ruined creation (performed entirely through Divine intervention, over six days [vv. 2b-25]).

And Rest (a day of rest following six days of restorative work [2:1-3]).
Arlen L. Chitwood

Incoming Email

I just read the most recent Pro & Con article posted today, where I came across Eve's incoming message concerning her belief that Jesus would never ask his followers to partake of blood, even if it was only in a figurative sense. I immediately thought of Jesus' words in John chapter 6, where he says:

"Most assuredly, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him."

Of course Jesus spoke in the spiritual, and not the literal physical sense. But I wonder if Eve disagrees with what the Lord said here, or if she just neglected to read it. I hope and pray that it was the latter and not the former.

Yours in Christ Jesus

My reply

Thanks. This should help her.

Incoming Email

This concerns Yugoslavia. Ezekiel 38&39 lists the countries that will be allied with Magog, or Russia. These includes many NATO countries; Turkey, Hungary, Germany (Gomer and all his bands-Belgium, Denmark, Luxembourg, Netherlands). Note that none of these countries are part of the old Roman Empire which, in its final form, will be the ten nation confederacy (ten toes of Daniel) out of which comes the "beast".

Since the Rapture is close and the start of the tribulation only a few years away, this means NATO must fall apart between now and the start of the Tribulation in order for these nations to form their prophesied alliances.

There are roughly 200,000,000 Americans and 80% claim to be christian. If you are correct about the Rapture taking 1/5 of the believers (and I believe you to be), then 32 million Americans will vanish in the twinkling of an eye. America will crumble into chaos, NATO will fall, and the ethnic against ethnic (nation against nation) outbreak will explode around the globe. I believe it will be out of this chaos that the "leader" will arise to bring his "peace" to the world.

NATO must fall and fall soon if the new alliances of nations are to be ready for the signing of the final peace treaty in 2001.
---
Reference P@C 301:

Not that it really matters seeing as how the Raptures will be over, but there is a third asteriod impact on "that day" besides the ones that hit in the Med and at Babylon. It strikes Mt. Seir which gets cooked forever.

the mountains [SEIR]--are burned up--none can pass through them--Edom shall be a desolation-- As in the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah--Teman--he shall make their habitations desolate with the-- The earth moved at the noise of their fall--the noise was heard in the Red sea--I will make it desolate from Temanthou shalt be desolate, --Thus will I make mount Seir most desolate---I will make thee perpetual desolations--Edom shall be a desolate wilderness--
(Jeremiah 9:10) (Jeremiah 49:17) (Jeremiah 49:18) (Jeremiah 49:20) (Jeremiah 49:21).
(Ezekiel 25:12-14) (Ezekiel 35:1-10) (Ezekiel 35:13-15) (Joel 3:19) (Amos 1:12)

Hope you have had time for a breather. My best to Ed. Agape

My reply

> Ezekiel 38&39 lists the countries that will be allied with Magog, or Russia

I'm glad YOU are researching which countries are allied and which are hit by pieces of the asteroid. I do not have the time to spend on it that I would like. I have 354 emails in my Inbox, sewing to do, walking with Ed, driving him to Cardiac Rehab, washing, etc. His mother, Millie Sparkes, is failing fast. I do hope people will understand if I can't get all emails answered. There are not enough hours in the day. I neglect the house more than I should to do what I do, but I figure people are more important. I rush to do what I have to do and get back to my computer. No time for a breather. Thank the Lord, Ed is doing well. The nurse at Rehab yesterday found his heartbeat right away with her stethescope. Usually, she has trouble finding it.

I just figure that Ezek. 38:6 says, "and many people with thee," and Zech. 14:2 says, "I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle." To me, this means that in the battle of the great day, it will be all nations allied together and attacking Israel. That seems to be under the UN's direction. It will be impossible for Israel to come through that onslaught on their own. However, they won't have to. The Lord will fight for them that day. They will turn to the Lord enmass that day. There will be no other hope for them. The nation will be saved that day, both spiritually and literally. The Lord will show the unbelieving world the Sign of the Son of Man and the blinding power of his hand.

Nahum 1:6 says of "the day of trouble," "Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him." What brings this on is the attack on Israel. Ezek. 38:18,19 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken."

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (world governmant headquartered at Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here (at Babylon), as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high (in the heavenlies), and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (the asteroid called Wormwood) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq, not Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

This alone tells me that the Garden of Eden was not Jerusalem, as some say. The point of the Sword of the Lord is directed at Babylon on the Euphrates River, in "a large country." Tiny Israel cannot be called a large country. It is more like one of our smaller east-coast states.

Under the world government will be ten divisions of the world. These have already been determined. There will be ten kings over these ten divisions. Over them will first be the Beast, then the False Prophet.

> there is a third asteriod impact on "that day" besides the ones that hit in the
> Med and at Babylon. It strikes Mt. Seir which gets cooked forever.

The Tribulation saints are snatched up from Petra just before the asteroid comes in. Psa. 108:9-12 says, "Moab is my washpot; over Edom will I cast out my shoe; over Philistia will I triumph. Who will bring me into the strong city? (Petra) who will lead me into Edom? Wilt not thou, O God, who hast cast us off? and wilt not thou, O God, go forth with our hosts? Give us help from trouble: for vain is the help of man. Through God we shall do valiantly: for he it is that shall tread down our enemies."

In Ruth 4:6-9, we see how drawing off the shoe was "to confirm all things; a man plucked off his shoe, and gave it to his neighbour: and this was a testimony in Israel. Therefore the kinsman said unto Boaz, Buy it for thee. So he drew off his shoe. And Boaz said unto the elders, and unto all the people, Ye are witnesses this day, that I have bought all that was Elimeleck's, and all that was Chilion's and Mahlon's, of the hand of Naomi. Moreover Ruth the Moabitess, the wife of Mahlon, have I purchased to be my wife."

Those that flee Jerusalem in the middle of the Tribulation and go to Petra will be in the Lord's washpot. There, they will get right with God--get washed. If not, they would not be taken up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture and would be annihilated on the Day of God's Wrath. Eze. 35:14,15 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD: When the whole earth rejoiceth, I will make thee desolate. As thou didst rejoice at the inheritance of the house of Israel, because it was desolate, so will I do unto thee: thou shalt be desolate, O mount Seir (Petra), and all Idumea, even ALL OF IT: and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Hope you are as well as possible, and that God is blessing you richly. Agape

Incoming Email

... Last year, Pentecost was on the first day of the week, this year it's on the last day of the week. Could this have meaning also? Could this be the last day of the Church Age? I certainly hope so. Can't wait to meet you at the Marriage Supper. ;-) I'll bet your table is going to be crowded. Maranatha!!!

PS - I'll bet your email is increasing every day it gets closer to Pentecost.

My reply

Re: Pentecost is the last day of the week this year:
Thanks a bunch. I hadn't thought of the significance of the first day of the week last Pentecost and the last day of the week this Pentecost. It sure could have meaning, one more week, one more year, one more period of time, one more Pentecost. It would wrap up our 12-month engagement period in a nice package. Sounds like something the Lord would do.

It is not the literal last day of the Age of the Church, for it, along with the Age of the Jews and the Age of the Gentiles, seems to be extended for a final testing during the Tribulation. This testing "shall come upon ALL THE WORLD, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3:10). I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ENDS (plural) of the world (lit., ages) are come." Just as Israel still has a 7-year period of time coming, the rest of the world does too.

Yes, my email is increasing every day. People that get no answer need to understand that the time is so short that it will require a miracle to get 351 answers out before the Rapure. Nevertheless, I read them all, learn from them and appreciate them. I did get tired of answering the no-man-knows. I felt like I was spinning my wheels and getting nowhere. That is why I put a note about where that information could be found right up front. I should have done that a long time ago.

I also appreciate all the information FWD to me from other sites, especially interesting things that appear on the 5 doves site. I have next to no time to surf the internet myself. However, I use an old Mac and need some text to by Copied and Pasted into the email document itself to be able to read them. I can't open .doc, application/octet stream, cards, etc. For images, I can read .jpg and .gif.

If it weren't for all you wonderful people out there feeding me information, I would not know as much as I do now. We sort of have to put our heads together to get some things sorted out. There is so much in the Bible, no one knows it all. We each get certain pieces of the puzzle. Here is where we can attempt to assemble the puzzle as we find the pieces. Agape

Incoming Email

As I was listening to a preacher friend of mine's Sunday night service, He was talking about Israel's entrance into the Holy Land. Before I read any of your material I was thinking how God started Israel's journey to the promise land and the last step before God brought them in. The Same Way!!! They started their journey with the parting of the waters and they entered into the promised land through the parting of waters!!! Then I read your articles about Enoch and Pentecost. The church age began with Pentecost and a mighty rushing wind of the Holy Ghost, It very well be that same method in which He Raptures us!! Wouldn't that be wonderful!!!

Yours in Christ work
Rev. ----- ------

My reply

Yes. It would be wonderful. Elijah went up by a whirlwind too (II Kings 2:1). That seems to be the way the Lord works. One thing is a picture of something else if we only have eyes to see. Since the Holy Spirit came as a mighty rushing wind, it seems very likely that he will go as a mighty rushing wind. All we have to worry about is being sure we are firmly attached to Him.

The Israelites came out of Egypt in the month of Nisan, during the season of the Passover. They also went into the promised land in the same month, on Nisan 10 (Jos. 4:19). The church was born into this world on Pentecost, and according to Song of Sol. 2:10-14, it looks like the church will be born into another new world on Pentecost.

The former rain is in the month of Tishri. The latter rain is in Nisan. Since Song 2:11 says, "the winter is past, the rain is over and gone," the only feast of the seven not eliminated by the rains is Pentecost. It is also the only one that is tied so firmly to the church.

Enoch is said to have been born and raptured on Sivan 6. If the Rapture happens on either Sivan 6 or Sivan 7, 5759, I'll be happy.

Incoming Email

Thankyou for the hard work you are putting in at the moment to keep us all up to date in your Pro's and Con's, I can only guess that as Jesus get nearer to coming for us you will get busier and busier. We all pray here for you and that you are given whatever you need in the Spirit to cope with the task before you.

I am presently in England (not New Zealand) as my brother in law, much loved and in Christ commited suicide, God explained to us all that he has lost his crown but is planted in the house of God and in his courts,safe and loved. Your word to my cousin Carli gave us all much comfort - thankyou. This death has been a wake up call to our whole family, and we are being sifted in greater measure than we could ever have imagined previously. I have come fom NZ to share with people that our Beloved is coming soon and that we can not harbour unforgiveness, bitterness or even grudges(a nice harmless sounding emotion , which jesus tells us is not acceptable). I would like to share with people if this gets into Pro's and Con's that satan is so subtle and will come at you from many directions, that are not always easy to discern. That I feel as we get closer he will step up his efforts to draw us away. That we truly need the help of the Holy Spirit to guard us and to tell us the condition of our hearts. And to take comfort in the fact that he is very very near and that although our suffering might be very great indeed it is working for us crowns to throw at the feet of Christ and that it will soon be over. Hang on in there and praise Christ in it all.

I have a few questions if you can find time Marilynn
1. Can you tell me your view on the percentage worthy to be raptured in rapture 1? Is it 50% 50% parable of the virgins. Or 2 out of the thousands of Israelites going into the Promised land (that makes it sound almost unattainable).

2. Are the 2 doors of the Temple in Ezekial 41:23 the two raptures?

3. What does it mean in Luke 4:38 when it talks of The Year of the Lords Favour?

4. What does it mean to watch from the East his coming, isn't Heaven in the north of the sky?

Thanks for everything much love in Christ

My reply

> 1. Can you tell me your view on the percentage worthy to be raptured in rapture 1? Is
> it 50% 50% parable of the virgins. Or 2 out of the thousands of Israelites going
> into the Promised land (that makes it sound almost unattainable).

I don't know anything to go by other than the parable of the ten virgins and the 1/5th of the grain taken up by Joseph during the seven good years.

> 2. Are the 2 doors of the Temple in Ezekial 41:23 the two raptures?

I think they are.

> 3. What does it mean in Luke 4:38 when it talks of The Year of the Lords Favour?

Do you mean v. 19: "To preach the acceptable year of the Lord"? That was the year of the Crucifixion.

> 4. What does it mean to watch from the East his coming, isn't Heaven in the north of
> the sky?

I think that Heaven is a planet, and planets rise from the eastern horizon and move upward along the ecliptic. North can indicate upward.

Mt. 2:2 mentions the wise men "Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen HIS STAR IN THE EAST, and are come to worship him."

Mt. 24:27 says, "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." That is talking about the Second Advent, but it also might be the direction he comes from when he comes for us. Saturn will be rising in the east about 4:28 AM at Jerusalem on May 22. Coming from the east makes good sense.

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Updated 4-14-99