Pro and Con 1000

Posted 2-11-03

Incoming email, Re: Sapphire mentioned in Exo 24:10

You believe Saturn is the location of Heaven. What do you think about this verse?

Exo 24:10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. (KJV)

I never paid attention to the mention of sapphire before, but it's as if the Lord brought a little of his planet with him or was indicating the place that he stood (or lived) on.

Interesting when you think of it like - the Lord lives on Saturn (Sapphire) or walks about on sapphire. And is described as speaking to Moses while standing on something described as sapphire.

Apparently the Lord with 2 angels appeared to Abraham and walked about the dusty ground of the area. Here in exodus I thought the idea of Him standing on sapphire had something to do with holiness, but have reconsidered these verses in Exodus after learning you believe heaven is Saturn.

Why do you think?

My reply

For too many years, I kept thinking certain verses sounded like Saturn, but said to myself, "Nah, that can't be," but I was fooling myself. For instance, Rev 4:2,3 says, "behold, a THRONE was set in heaven, and one (Christ the Almighty, Rev. 1:8) sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in the breastplate; i.e., Christ is the first and the last, Rev. 1:17; 22:13,16): and there was a rainbow round about the THRONE, in sight like unto an emerald" (Judah's stone, Jesus is the Lion [king] of the tribe of Judah). He sits on the throne AND is depicted as the "Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth unto all the earth" (Rev. 5:6).

Christ is both YHVH king of Israel and the Redeemer, YHVH of hosts. He is the first (YHVH king of Israel) and the last (YHVH of hosts)" (Isa. 44:6).

What felt like an electric current running through me was when I looked up sapphire in my Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. It means DEAR TO THE PLANET SATURN, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. That's when I whispered to myself, "So it's true."

The reason I looked up sapphire was it's use in Eze. 1:26-28. It says, "above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) was the likeness of A THRONE, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE STONE (Saturn): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber bands on a creamy-yellow body), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and IT HAD BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT (i.e., the 7 rings around Saturn). As the appearance of the bow (rainbow) that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness (of the rings) round about." That spectrum of colors is caused by sunlight on ice crystals, whether it's in our atmosphere or in Saturn's rings. Ex. 24:10 says, "they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were (symbolic language) a paved work of a SAPPHIRE stone, and as it were the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness." The heavenly body is Saturn.

Eze 28:13 says to Satan, the king of Tyre (the rock, i.e., an asteroid broken off his planet Rahab)Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God (both heavenly and earthly); every precious stone (planet) was thy covering (surrounding), the sardius (1, Mercury), topaz (2, Venus), and the diamond (3, Earth), the beryl (4, Mars), the onyx (5, Rahab; Satan's planet that is now our Asteroid Belt), and the jasper (6, Jupiter), the sapphire (7, Saturn), the emerald (8, Uranus), and the carbuncle (9, Neptune), and gold (10, Pluto)." Agape

MJA: The location of Mt. Sinai

I feel certain that Mt. Sinai is not Jebel El Lawz in Saudi Arabia, as Rom Wyatt suggested. The Israelites crossed the Red Sea at the time that they were leaving Egypt. They crossed the northern waterway of the rift that forms the Gulf of Suez. There is no way they could have crossed the Gulf of Aqaba as they left Egypt.

Ex. 13:3,4 says, "Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which YE CAME OUT FROM EGYPT, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten. This day came ye out in the month Abib (Aviv, Nisan)." The Sinai Peninsula was not part of Egypt then, because they "came out from Egypt."

Mt. Sinai was in Arabia Petrea, which is the Sinai Peninsula. On page 1166, Unger's Bible Dictionary says that the wilderness wandering was in "that portion of Arabia called Arabia Petraea (or rocky Arabia), from its rocky and rugged character."

I don't see how Mt. Sinai could be Jebel Musa in the southern tip of the peninsula near the St. Catherine's Monastery, either. I doubt that there is enough room there for 600,000 men 20 and up, plus their families and flocks to camp before the 7,500' mount.

The Israelites wandered in the wilderness, "midbar," pasture, open field, desert. That does not describe the rugged area around Jebel Musa at all. John 6:31 says, "Our fathers did eat manna in the DESERT (eremos, desolate, solitary, wilderness)." This desert is not like the Sahara. This desert produces herbage when it gets water. It seems that dew would bring herbage too. The manna fell after the dew fell. Joel 2:22 says, "Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for THE PASTURES OF THE WILDERNESS (midbar) do spring." God provided the pasture for the grazing animals.

The first picture below is Jebel Musa. The second photo is taken from Jebel Musa. That area is far from being pasture, open field or desert.


There are several named wilderness areas mentioned in descriptions of the Exodus. The wilderness the Israelites entered first is the wilderness of Etham, which seems to be the local part of the larger wilderness of Shur. The wilderness of Etham was near Etham, Egypt. Nu. 33:6 says, "they departed from Succoth (in Egypt), and pitched in Etham, which is in THE EDGE OF THE WILDERNESS." From the time the Israelites left Etham, they were in the wilderness. The wilderness of Shur was all along the road to Shur, which stretched across the entire northern Sinai Peninsula.

Nu. 33:8 says, "they departed from before Pihahiroth, and passed through the midst of the sea INTO THE WILDERNESS, and went THREE DAYS' JOURNEY IN THE WILDERNESS OF ETHAM, and pitched in Marah." Ex. 15:22 says, "Moses brought Israel from the Red sea, and they went out into THE WILDERNESS OF SHUR; AND THEY WENT THREE DAYS in the wilderness, and found no water. And when they came to Marah (bitter), they could not drink of the waters." The Lord had Moses cast a certain tree into the waters, and "the waters were made sweet" (Ex. 15:25).

Nu. 33:9-11 says, "they removed from Marah, and came unto Elim (oaks): and in Elim were twelve fountains of water, and threescore and ten palm trees; and they pitched there. And they removed from Elim, and encamped by the Red (cuwph, reed) sea (LITV, :Sea of Reeds) (probably a salt marsh that was formerly a lake inland from Lake Sirbonis near the Mediterranean). And they removed from the Red (Reed) sea, and encamped in the WILDERNESS OF SIN (Ciyn, surroundings of Mt. Ciynai, Sinai).

Ex. 16:1 shows where the wilderness of Sin is located. It says, "they took their journey from Elim, and all the congregation of the children of Israel came unto THE WILDERNESS OF SIN, WHICH IS BETWEEN ELIM AND SINAI, on the fifteenth day of the second month after their departing out of the land of Egypt." So the wilderness of Sin also seems to overlap the larger wilderness of Shur.

There is some overlapping of the different wilderness areas. It looks like the wilderness of Sinai overlapped part of the larger wilderness of Shur. The road to Shur went close to Mt. Sinai, which is probably called Jebel Helal today. It was 25 miles west of Kadesh.

If you were going to Mt. Sinai, you would probably call that area the wilderness of Sinai. If you were going to Shur, you would probably call it the wilderness of Shur.

Nu. 33:12-14 says, "they took their journey out of the wilderness of Sin (Ciyn), and encamped in Dophkah. And they departed from Dophkah, and encamped in Alush. And they removed from Alush, and encamped at Rephidim (supports, rests), where was no water for the people to drink."

Moses asked the Lord what to do. "And the LORD said unto Moses, Go on (to Horeb, Sinai) before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go. Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb (Sinai); and thou shalt smite the rock (type of Christ), and there shall come water out of it" (Ex. 17:5,6). Water is a type of the Holy Spirit. 1Co 10:4 says, "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

"And they departed from Rephidim, and pitched in the WILDERNESS (midbar, desert, open field) OF SINAI (Ciynai, mountain of Arabia Petrea)" (Nu. 33:15). Ex. 19:1 says, "In the third month (Sivan), when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the WILDERNESS OF SINAI.

Ex. 19:2 is clear that Mt. Sinai was in the desert of Sinai. For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the DESERT (midbar) OF SINAI, and had pitched in the wilderness (midbar, desert, pasture, open field); and there Israel camped before the mount."

The Israelites had been in wilderness (midbar, pasture, open field, desert) area the whole time between Egypt and Mt. Sinai. Therefore, Mt. Sinai, probably Jebel Helal in the north, was in the wilderness of Sinai (part of, or adjacent to, the wilderness of Shur in the northern part of the Sinai Peninsula), not in the rough mountainous southern area around Jebel Musa.

Mt. Sinai was in the desert of Sinai, not in the mountainous area. Lev 7:38 says, "the LORD commanded Moses in MOUNT SINAI, in the day that he commanded the children of Israel to offer their oblations unto the LORD, IN THE WILDERNESS OF SINAI." Ex. 19:2 says, "For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to THE DESERT OF SINAI, and had pitched in the WILDERNESS; and there Israel camped before the mount." Num 1:1 says, "the LORD spake unto Moses in THE WILDERNESS OF SINAI.." Num 1:19 As the LORD commanded Moses, so he numbered them in THE WILDERNESS OF SINAI." Nu. 3:4 says, "Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in THE WILDERNESS OF SINAI."

They stayed at Sinai a little over a year (Nisan 1 to Iyar 20 in the next year, Numbers 19:1; 10:11). At some time during that encampment, Jethro, Moses' father-in-law, brought Moses' family to visit him. When Jethro and his son were ready to leave, Ex. 18:27 says, "Moses let his father in law DEPART (from Sinai); and he went his way INTO HIS OWN LAND" (Midian). Therefore, Mt. Sinai was not in Midian.

Another verse that places Mt. Sinai outside the Land of Midian is found in Numbers 10. The Israelites were getting ready to depart from Mt. Sinai. Moses invited his brother-in-law, Hobab, to join them in their journey (10:29). Num 10:30 gives Hobab's answer: "he said unto him, I will not go; but I will DEPART TO MINE OWN LAND (Midian), and to my kindred."

Nu. 10:12 says, "the children of Israel took their journeys out of THE WILDERNESS OF SINAI; and the cloud rested in THE WILDERNESS OF PARAN." They journeyed three days (Nu. 10:33). The people complained, so that place was called Taberah (Nu. 11:3). The next two camps were at Kibroth-hattaavah and Hazeroth "in the WILDERNESS OF PARAN" (Nu. 12:16).

There were other camps, but De. 1:19 wraps them up as wanderings in the wilderness. It says, "when we departed from Horeb (Mt. Sinai), we went through all that great and terrible WILDERNESS, which ye saw by the way of the mountain of the Amorites (tall ones in Canaan), as the LORD our God commanded us; and we came to Kadeshbarnea."

Kadeshbarnea was on the southern boundary of the promised land. Num 34:2-5 says, "When ye come into the land of Canaan; (this is the land that shall fall unto you for an inheritance, even the land of Canaan with the coasts thereof:) Then your south quarter shall be from the WILDERNESS OF ZIN along by the coast of Edom, and your south border shall be the outmost coast of the salt sea eastward: And your border shall turn from the south to the ascent of Akrabbim, and pass on to ZIN: and the going forth thereof shall be from the south to KADESHBARNEA, and shall go on to Hazaraddar, and pass on to Azmon: And the border shall fetch a compass from Azmon unto the river of Egypt (also called the Brook of Egypt; it's mouth is at Al Arish), and the goings out of it shall be at the sea" (the Mediterranean).

Earlier, Abraham had been in that area. Gen 20:1 says, "Abraham journeyed...toward the SOUTH COUNTRY, and dwelled between KADESH and SHUR, and sojourned in Gerar" (in the Negev between Gaza and Beer-sheba).

On a boundary-of-the-Negev line drawn from Rapha, on the Mediterranean, to Elath, at the head of the Gulf of Aqaba, Kadesh was near the middle, but closer to the Mediterranean than to Elath. Kadesh was a few miles from that border, on the Sinai side of the boundary of the Negev.

From Kadesh, Moses sent into Canaan a group to spy out the land after the Israelites balked at "go up and possess it" (De. 1:21).

Because of overlap, KADESH IS IN MORE THAN ONE WILDERNESS AREA. It is in both Paran and Zin. That gives us a better chance to identify the area.

(1) THE WILDERNESS OF PARAN. Num 10:12 says, "the children of Israel took their JOURNEYS OUT OF THE WILDERNESS OF SINAI; and the cloud rested in the WILDERNESS OF PARAN." Nu. 13:26 says, "And they (the spies) went and came to Moses, and to Aaron, and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, UNTO THE WILDERNESS OF PARAN, TO KADESH; and brought back word unto them, and unto all the congregation, and shewed them the fruit of the land."

(2) THE WILDERNESS (midbar, desert, pasture, open field, a place for driving or pasturing flocks), OR DESERT (midbar), OF ZIN. Nu. 13:21 says, "So they went up, and searched the land from THE WILDERNESS OF ZIN unto Rehob. Nu. 27:14 says, "ye rebelled against my commandment IN THE DESERT OF ZIN, in the strife of the congregation, to sanctify me at the water before their eyes: that is the water of Meribah in KADESH IN THE WILDERNESS OF ZIN. Nu. 20:1 says, "Then came the children of Israel, even the whole congregation, into the DESERT OF ZIN in the first month: and the people abode in KADESH."

Kadesh is also in the wilderness of Kadesh. Psa. 29:8 says, "The voice of the LORD shaketh the wilderness; the LORD shaketh THE WILDERNESS OF KADESH." The Israelites are still in the wilderness.

At Kadesh, Moses was to speak to the rock, not strike it for Christ is our rock (I Cor. 10:4). He was only to die once. The water represents the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God (Rom. 8:9). Num 20:7-11 says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and SPEAK YE UNTO THE ROCK before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink. And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him. And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock? And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod HE SMOTE THE ROCK TWICE: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also."

De. 32:51 gives the reason that Moses didn't go into the promised land: "Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of MERIBAH-KADESH, IN THE WILDERNESS OF ZIN." Meribah, mriybah, means quarrel, provocation or strife. Kadesh was where they were when only Joshua and Caleb were willing to go into Canaan to take the land. This incident is called the Provocation. This is why they had to wander for 40 years while the older generation died off.

Nu. 33:36 says, "they removed from Eziongaber (on the northern end of the Gulf of Aqaba), and pitched in THE WILDERNESS OF ZIN, WHICH IS KADESH."

The border of Judah's territory included Kadesh Barnea, which was in the wilderness of Zin. Jos 15:1-4 says, "This then was the lot of the tribe of the children of Judah by their families; even to the border of Edom THE WILDERNESS OF ZIN southward was the uttermost part of the south coast. And their south border was from the shore of the salt sea, from the bay that looketh southward: And it went out to the south side to Maalehacrabbim, and passed along to ZIN, and ascended up on the south side unto KADESHBARNEA, and passed along to Hezron, and went up to Adar, and fetched a compass to Karkaa: From thence it passed toward Azmon, and went out unto the river of Egypt; and the goings out of that coast were at the sea: this shall be your south coast."

Moses had been to Mt Sinai/Horeb before. That is where God spoke to him from the burning bush. Ex. 3:1 says, "Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian (east of the Gulf of Aqaba): and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to THE MOUNTAIN OF GOD, EVEN TO HOREB." Here is a picture taken by Specialist Ilan Ramon from the Columbia space shuttle. It is easy to see that Mt. Sinai could be called the backside of the desert. There is desert all along the Mediterranean edge.

Mt. Sinai is also called Mt. Horeb. Ex. 17:6 says, "Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in HOREB; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel."

Deu 1:19 says, "when we departed from HOREB, we went through all that great and terrible WILDERNESS, which ye saw by the way of the mountain of the Amorites, as the LORD our God commanded us; and we came to Kadeshbarnea."

Deu 1:2 says, "There are eleven days' journey from Horeb (Mt. Sinai) by the way of mount Seir (Petra was Esau's capital in that area east of the Jordan) unto Kadeshbarnea."

I think Mt. Sinai is Jebel Helal, 25 miles west of the Kadesh oasis. It is in the wilderness of Sinai and part of, or adjacent to, the wilderness of Shur that goes all across the northern part of the Sinai Peninsula. The Israelites were in named wilderness areas all the way from Egypt to Mt. Sinai.

Incoming email, Re: still confused

I love and believe in Jesus as my savior. I want to go to heaven but i think being a teenager when going is to soon. I dont know if i'll like heaven. The realationships there are totaly different. I wont see my mom as my mom i dont know if she'll even be there. My friends i wont know them as my friends but i'll know them. How else is there for them to be known? will i remember earth? What about the widowers that get remarried what happens when they get there? I guess because i dont know what we'll do in heaven im afraid i'll i dont know get bored or something. I dont want to be here during the tribulation but i do want to live to be at least thirty. I cant get married,buy a house, go to college, get a job and prove to all these people i can make something of myself because i have christ and that they could've had that too.

A day or two before i started reading "the End of the Age" and worrying about all this i had a dream about Jesus coming back. I went outside and sat in the grass and looked at the stars all of a sudden a really big star started to rise into the sky about this time i sstart thinking its Jesus so i run inside and say mom its Jesus Im all happy and stuff. Then all of a sudden everything turned blue there was no furniture and we see this angel with a big book (usual thing for everyone) we sit down and my cuzin and one of my best fiends (we go to church together) was sitting beside me we start talking i say have u seen him yet se shakes her head yes i start asking what he looks like she says "ill see him soon now lay down" she took this neadle with a suckion cup on it and stuck it in my chest then said "first they have to drain ur fluids" i looked at it the whole time blue stuff grew bigger and bigger in this thing and i started to lose my breath and got really scared then woke up. I dont know what this dream was sopose to mean but i guess no matter what im always going to be a little scared of goin to heaven.

My reply

You won't lose anything you know now when you go to Heaven. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31, we can see that after death, both the saved and unsaved can think, reason, hear, speak, feel and remember.

Don't trust dreams. Trust the Lord and his word. Agape

The Night He Died (with my comments interspersed and marked ***)


The Scriptures seem to tell us that Y'shua (Jesus) died on Thursday afternoon, Aviv 14th, and rose just before dawn on Sunday morning, Aviv 17....

***Thanks for this very interesting article. I appreciate all the extra information you have given too. You have sources that I don't remember reading.

***I agree with a Thursday crucifixion, but think it had to be Aviv (Nisan, Abib) 13, the preparation of the Passover. John 19:14,15 says, "IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him."

***John 18:28 says, "Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover." The Passover was Friday, following the Thursday crucifixion.

***John 19:31 says, "it was the preparation (Thursday), that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (Friday), (for that sabbath day was an high day,)" (Feast of Passover).

The Mishnah teaches in Menahot 10:3 to reap the omer used for the wave sheaf "on the eve of the festival." Also, Menahot 10:9 VI I-J says "It is a requirement that one reap it (the firstfruits) by night. If it is reaped by day, it is invalid." This is logical deduction from scripture since the firstfruits was to be reaped the day it was offered AND had to remain on the altar all night. No way to fullfill these requirements without reaping the harvest itself the evening before it was to be offered. (The Mishnah also teaches that it cannot be reaped before Passover in Menahot 10:7C, which again would follow from logical deduction of Lev 6:8.) The Mishnah also teaches in several places in this same chapter (Menahot 10) that it is PERMISSIBLE to reap on Shabbat IF the 16th of Aviv falls on Shabbat. But only IF the 16th falls on Shabbat....

***In 30 AD, Aviv 16, Feast of Firstfruits, was on Sunday.

Now determining when John 12:1 happened is not as easy as it might look at first. It says "6 days before Passover" but is Passover reckoned from when the sacrifice was slaughtered on the 14th or when the meal was eaten on the 15th?...

***It's easy, because the passover meal was eaten on the 14th. In Egypt, they killed and roasted the lambs, then had to eat them between 6 PM and midnight, when the firstborn of Egypt died. All this took place on Aviv 14. There is only one midnight that belongs to Aviv 14. It arrives 6 hours after the night of the 14th begins at 6 PM on Wednesday the 13th.

***Night precedes day (Gen. 1:5), and Aviv 14 has 24 hours 6 PM Wed, night of Aviv 14 begins, lambs eaten by midnight + 6 hours = midnight, firstborn of Egypt died + 6 hours = 6 AM, daybreak, when the 14th's 12 hours of night end + 6 hours = noon + 6 hours = 6 PM Thur, the night of Aviv 15 begins

My guess is that He travelled on Friday the 8th, and they held a Sabbath day dinner for Him that night. The "next day" is the next day after the dinner. Other verses help put these clues together, with the book of Mark giving us the most clues on dating of these events. Let's take a look at two possibilities...

Possibility #1: "6 Days Before Passover" refers to 6 days before the 14th of Aviv and is counting EXCLUSIVELY. This would put the trip to Bethany on the 8th of Aviv.
Aviv 8 - Y'shua arrives at Bethany and annointed for the first time by Mary (who wiped His feet) (John 12)
Aviv 9 (Evening) - Dinner for Y'shua.
Aviv 10 - Triumphal Entry on Sunday the 10th (Mark 11:1-11)
Aviv 11 - Y'shua clears the temple on "the next day" (Mark 11:12) after His triumphal entry. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.
Aviv 12 - They notice the withered Fig Tree "in the morning" (Mark 11:20) the day after He cleared the temple. Note that Y'shua travelled between Bethany and Jerusalem this day.
Topics discussed that day were...
Authority of Y'shua questioned (Mark 11:27-33)
Parable on the Tenants (Mark 12:1-12)
Paying Taxes to Caesar (Mark 12:13-17)
Marriage at the Resurrection (Mark 12:18-27, Matthew 22:23 plainly tells us this was the same day as his teaching on paying taxes to Caesar.)
Being David's son (Mark 12:35-40)
The Second Coming (Mark 13:1-37)
Aviv 13 - Y'shua annointed at Bethany (the second time) "two days before" Passover. (Mark 14:1-11) This annointing was different than the earlier one John records in John 12. Here, an unnamed woman annoints Him with perfume on His head, while the earlier discussed His feet.
Aviv 14 (evening) - Begins as we reach Mark 14:12 which says..."in the first day of unleaveness, when they killed the passover, his disciples say to him, `Where wilt thou, [that,] having gone, we may prepare, that thou mayest eat the passover?" Now there's two timing clues on the date here...
"the first day of unleaveness". This could be talking about Aviv 14 or 15. Aviv 15 was the first LEGAL day of Unleavened Bread, but Jews would get their house ready by the 14th in order to be ready for the start of it on the 15th. So the 14th was the first day on a de facto basis. "when they killed the passover". There's no ambiguity to this one. The lamb was killed on the 14th "between the mixings".

***I thought it was between the evenings, i.e., between 3 and 5 PM.

So the timing for this day was the 14th of Aviv. It would have been the evening of the 14th, since Y'shua was killed on the afternoon of the 14th. History tells us that the Essenes and Samaritans, and probably the Galileans, ate the paschal meal on the eve of the 14th, while the Pharisees and Saduccess ate it on the eve of the 15th. The Law does not prescribe when the lamb must be eaten, only when it must be killed. Aviv 14 (Daytime) - Begins with the arrest of Y'shua and His trial. Yochanan / John 19:14 tells us it was not yet Passover, as it was celebrated by greater Judea....

***The eve of the 14th is the 13th, when they ate the Last Supper as the 13th began.

***Here is my chart
Aviv 7, Fri, travel day
Aviv 8, Sat, about 6 PM, arrived at Bethany, ate supper, rested on Sabbath
Aviv 9, Sun, Palm Sunday, presented himself as King, rejected
Aviv 10, Monday, cursed the fig tree, purified the temple
Aviv 11, Tue, fig tree dried up, gave Olivet Discourse
Aviv 12, Wed, "after two days" was passover (Fri, after Wed and Thurs)
Aviv 13, Thur, Preparation of the Passover, Last Supper, Crucifixion
Aviv 14, Fri, Passover
Aviv 15, Sat, Feast of Unleavened Bread
Aviv 16, Sun, Feast of Firstfruits, Resurrection before daybreak

***Six days before the Passover
John 12:1: "Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany" (Sat)
John 12:12: "On the next day" (Sunday)
John 12:13: "Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him"
(1) Aviv 8, Sat, Jesus rested at Bethany
(2) Aviv 9, Sun, Palm Sunday
(3) Aviv 10, Mon, lambs chosen for Passover, fig tree cursed
(4) Aviv 11, Tue, fig tree dried up, Olivet Discourse given
(5) Aviv 12, Wed, anointed for burial
(6) Aviv 13, Thur, Crucifixion

He stayed in Bethany the entire week leading up to His crucifixion. The only place where there is a "break" in the accounts is that there is a Dinner listed after His travel day and the day before He rode into Jerusalem. So if we assume that the night of His "dinner in His honor" in Bethany was an Erev Shabbat, all the timing of the events fit together neatly and lead up to a Thursday crucifixion....

***I agree.

By the first possibility of chronology, indeed, Palm Sunday was a Sunday, the 10th of Aviv, which began on Saturday evening and ended Sunday evening. Making Monday during the day the 11th, Tuesday the 12th, Wednesday the 13th, and Wednesday Night thru Thursday sundown the 14th and day of His crucifixion....

***Palm Sunday was Aviv 9, the 2nd of the 6 days before Passover (Fri, Aviv 14)

Why His Death was 30 AD

***I agree on 30 AD.


The Talmud lists events to suggest his death occurred in 30 AD. In fact, there are 4 significant signs that happened in 30 AD.

40 years before the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, the doors to the Holy Place opened by themselves. Normally it took 20 men to open these all-gold doors, they were so heavy. This was considered a Messianic sign, and the Talmud records a Jew lamenting the fact that the temple was bearing witness to the fact that Y'shua was indeed, the Messiah.
In 30 AD, the Beit Din (Sanhedrin) was banished from judging cases involving death sentences. For the last 40 years of the temple, God refused to accept the sacrifice of the Jews at the temple. The servant lamp of the temple's Menorah refused to shine in 30 AD. For a detailed description of all of these events, see'shua_nailed_to_the_stake.htm

...The Thursday crucifixion explanation is the only one I know of that makes all 3 phrases work. It counts 3 days and 3 nights without ignoring any part of a day or night, and without counting any part of a day or night as a full day/night in order for the count to come out. It's "on the third day" by two points of reference.

***I agree. The three days and three nights were
Thur, day
Fri, night then day
Sat, night then day
Sun, night


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