Pro and Con 1009

Posted 3-15-03

The Offensive Unfolds

Debka Net Weekly #101, 3-14-03

The US-led Iraq War began on Thursday, March 13 – not with a formal declaration or a spectacular eruption, but as an unfolding campaign.

On Wednesday, March 12, war commander General Tommy Franks returned to his forward headquarters in Qatar carrying his orders, which were to go on the offensive on March 13...

According to DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s sources in Washington, he acted on three decisions taken by President George W. Bush:

1. The war date – March 13.

2. Not to deliver a formal declaration of war...

DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s readers should not be surprised to discover in the next few hours or days that five US special forces battalions have captured Iraqi oil fields along the Iraq-Kuwait border and that American and British commandos are advancing on the large Romeila oil field near Basra. Our military sources report that these military movements are now underway.

3. To stop waiting for the UN Security Council to act...

Thus far, Iraqi military intelligence has shown an impressive ability to track American military movements and respond at speed. American deployments in Turkey and northern Iraq were discovered and brought forth a rapid change of Iraqi tactics. On the morning of Wednesday, March 13, the Special Republican Guards Adnan Division, which had been on its way out of the Mosul district after being ordered to pull back to the Tikrit-Baghdad central region, suddenly turned in its tracks. By Thursday night, the division was repositioned around Mosul, the oil fields and along the Mosul-Kirkuk highway.

Concurrent with this maneuver, the 5th Iraqi Army was told to pull out of its positions in northern Kurdistan – particularly Jabel Finjar opposite the Turkish frontier, and regroup around Kirkuk and its oilfields.

DEBKA-Net-Weekly’s military analysts interpret these movements to mean that Saddam Hussein has made a last-minute switch in his plan to concentrate all his military strength in an Iron Triangle to defend Iraq’s heartland and the cities of Baghdad and Tikrit – as we reported in a previous issue, and has decided instead to defend the northern oil fields after all....

Our military sources say that over last weekend, the Tewakalna (Trust in Allah) Division was brought over from the southern Iraqi oil fields and Nassiriyeh

The redeployment of this fighting division completes the Iron Triangle formation we reported earlier, setting up a shield to defend Baghdad and Tikrit, buttressed by six divisions and covering a piece of terrain with a radius of 50 km....

General Tommy Franks was waiting for just this moment, when the entire core of Saddam’s combat strength was assembled in a single, enclosed area. Twenty-four hours after the Tewakalna Division moved north, American and British warplanes homed in to strike the optic fiber communications backbone of Baghdad’s defenses and the outer fringes of the new concentration. They are acting on the same strategy in Iraq’s central heartland and cities as they did in the north and south - first knocking out Iraqi communications centers, especially the ones operating on optical fibers, then targeting artillery and missiles - and finally tanks.

The American-led forces have finished stages one and two, but have not yet gone for Iraq’s tank forces.... DEBKAfile...US special forces have crossed the Kuwait-Iraq frontier and occupied some of the southern oil fields. US-British special forces have moved in to western Iraq. US warplanes are up to 600 sorties a day.

An Old Jerusalem Cave Provides New Finds (6-23-99)

(DFJ-Nov/Dec99) An underground cave, uncovered in Jerusalem, has turned out to be a treasure house of history. Israel Antiquities Authority archaeologist, Yochanan Zeligman, reports that researchers found what can be called a large factory in a cave in the vicinity of Mt. Scopus.

"The factory mainly produced stone vessels - cups, bowls, and the like - for use in the Second Temple," he said. "Since stone is not susceptible to ritual impurity, it was used widely in and around the Temple."...

An example of a vessel, called the "kelal," which was kept in the entrance to the Temple and contained a mixture of red heifer ashes.


Weekend News Today, By Kelly Pagatpatan

Archaeologists today discovered a 2000-year-old factory underneath Jerusalem that was used TO MAKE TOOLS FOR A JEWISH TEMPLE....the factory was the largest series of ancient rooms discovered in Israel. "In these rooms, dozens of people, expert stone workers, designed tools, tables, and cups ... from the raw material we are sitting on,'' said Jon Zeligman of the antiquities authority, pointing to soft rock....

Ancient Temple Factory Discovered


JERUSALEM (AP) - Two thousand years ago, masons working in an underground factory - a cluster of caverns beneath Jerusalem - carved stone mugs, dishes and wine jugs for priests serving in the nearby Jewish Temple.

Last week, a bulldozer clearing a road near the walled Old City of Jerusalem fell into a hole, unearthing the ancient masonry and providing physical proof of ritual purity laws described in the Bible.

The chamber, located 15 feet underground, was one of several stretching over an area measuring one-quarter of an acre. Most rooms were filled almost to the ceiling with the factory's leftovers - broken dishes, stone shards and rounded stone knobs....

Seligman said he believed the cavern was dug in the first century B.C. and served both as a quarry and a factory. Masons cut stone blocks from the walls and ceilings, to be used as raw material while carving out a new workroom. As they cleared out a new chamber, the masons threw stone chips into the previous room for use in fashioning vessels....

To make a bowl, masons rounded a piece of stone and cut handles into it, then spun it on a lathe to chisel out the center. A tap on the bottom popped the core out, leaving a hollowed-out bowl or mug. The mugs and bowls were then carted by horse or mule to the Temple a mile away....

Incoming email, Re: Comment from Daniel on P&C 852

From: Daniel Rydstedt

It has been awhile since I have had a chance to write. I try to keep up with all of your P&C's. In my view, your website and the information and vision that it imparts is one of the most important on the internet. I am so thankful that you have put the link to my latest Be The Bride book at the top of your site. Many have read the book, because of finding it through your site, that have had their priorities in life changed. I have gotten so many encouraging emails from people that learned about the book on your web site. Thanks again.

I had one comment on something you wrote in P&C 852. You said . . .
>>>Luke 21:24 says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." These "times" may have been fulfilled when Israel took eastern Jerusalem in the Six-Day War. If not then, they may end when the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 begins.

Here is my take on that verse. The fact that this verse says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL" . . . leads me to believe that it will not be trodden down again after the next part of the verse comes to pass . . . when "the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." We know according to Zechariah 14:1-2 that Jerusalem will be trodden down again of the Gentile Gog Magog, New World Order Force in the future immediately before the Day of the Lord, when the wrath of God begins. Zech. 14:1-2 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city." That would seem to eliminate Luke 21:24 being fulfilled during the six day war of 1967 as well the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

I believe a key is seeing that the word "Gentiles" that is used twice in this verse is referring to two different groups of Gentile (or ethnos, a non-Jewish race). The first reference to Gentiles is referring to the non-Jewish nations that have come against Jerusalem in past history as well as the non-Jewish Gog Magog New World Order forces that are to come against Jerusalem in the future (that I just mentioned). I personally think that the phrase "the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled" is tied to the phrase "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" in Romans 11:25. That verse and the next verse (26) says, ". . . that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. 26. And so all Israel shall be saved . . ." Israel is partly blind (there are some Messianic Jews that have accepted Jesus as their Messiah) until the sign of the son of man occurs on the Day of the Lord when they "see He whom they have pierced" (Zech. 12:10). It is on this day, the Day of the Lord, that "all of Israel is saved". The "fullness of the Gentiles coming in" referred to in the last part of verse 25 of Rom. 11 is referring to the massive ingathering of non-Jewish people into the kingdom of God during the shortened tribulation. In Be The Bride vol. 3 (which is online at Http:// I spend a whole capter talking about the massive harvest of those who become tribulation saints (a "great multitude no man could number" Rev. 7:9) that is referred to in scripture as the Latter Rain Harvest. It is this massive ingathering of believers that I believe is being referred to as "the fullness of the Gentiles" in Romans 11:25 and as the "times of the Gentiles being fullfilled" in Luke 21:24. The large company of tribulation saints, made up of mostly Gentiles, will be harvested or raptured right BEFORE the wrath of God is unleashed and right AFTER "Jerusalem is trodden down" for the last time by the Gentile New World Order Forces at the Gog-Magog war. This war is initiated on the day preceding the Day of the Lord. To me the time that Jerusalem ceases to be trodden down by the Gentiles has to refer to the Day of the Lord, the day the fullness of the Gentiles, making up the tribulation saints, is come in (raptured).

What do you think? Your brother in Jesus. Daniel Rydstedt

My reply

Sorry to be so long in answering. This got lost in my 1000+ Inbox.

> > I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city." That would seem to eliminate Luke 21:24 being fulfilled during the six day war of 1967 as well the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

I think you are right. At that time, I thought that it wasn't the Gentiles that would cause Jerusalem's troubles in the Great Tribulation, but a Jew. Also, that God would be dealing mainly with the Jews during the Tribulation.

Now, I think differently. That "until" puts it at the Day of God that ends the shortened Tribulation. That is the day that Israel will be saved in a day (Isa. 66:8). That is the turning point.

The Palestinians are going to give them whatever trouble they can until the Day of God arrives. Agape

His reply

Thank you for getting to my email. I know you are deluged with correspondence to respond to. I want you to know again that I really appreciate your ministry and your openness to learn as well as teach. Like you, I am open to anyone showing me scripture that might modify my perspective on how I understand prophetic things. I am so blessed by your writings. Keep up the great work!

Your Brother in Jesus, Daniel Rydstedt

Incoming email, Re: "LET US REMOVE HENCE"

Wasn't the above phrase supposedly said by some angels over the Temple mount area, recorded in Josephus just before the destruction in 70 AD.

If my memory is correct, it was supposedly said at Pentecost.

My reply

It was Pentecost in 66 AD. In Wars VI. V. 3 (Whiston), Josephus told the things that preceded the burning of the temple. Of 66 AD, when the Jewish revolt began, he wrote:

"...the people...did not attend, nor give credit, to THE SIGNS that were so evident, and did so plainly foretell their future desolation; but, like men infatuated, without either eyes to see or minds to consider, did not regard the denunciations that God made to them. Thus there was A STAR RESEMBLING A SWORD, which stood over the city, and a COMET, that continued a whole year. Thus also, before the Jews' rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, ON THE EIGHTH DAY OF THE MONTH...NISAN (this fell on Saturday, the day before Palm Sunday, in 30 AD), and at the ninth hour of the night (3 PM), so great A LIGHT SHONE ROUND THE ALTAR AND THE HOLY HOUSE, that it appeared to be bright day-time; which light lasted for half an hour. This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskilful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it. At the same FESTIVAL (probably Nisan 13, the preparation of the Passover) also, A HEIFER, as she was led by the high priest to be sacrificed, BROUGHT FORTH A LAMB IN THE MIDST OF THE TEMPLE. Moreover, the EASTERN GATE of the inner, [court of the temple,] which was of brass, and vastly heavy, and had been with difficulty shut by twenty men, and rested upon a basis armed with iron, and had bolts fastened very deep into the firm floor, which was there made of one entire stone, was seen to be OPENED OF ITS OWN ACCORD ABOUT THE SIXTH HOUR OF THE NIGHT (AT MIDNIGHT). Now, those that kept watch in the temple came thereupon running to the captain of the temple, and told him of it; who then came up thither, and not without great difficulty was able to shut the gate again. This also appeared to the vulgar to be a very happy prodigy, as if God did thereby open them the gate of happiness. But the men of learning understood it, that the security of their holy house was dissolved of its own accord, and that the gate was opened for the advantage of their enemies. So these publicly declared, that this signal foreshewed the desolation that was coming upon them. Besides these, a few days after that feast, on the one-and-twentieth day of the month...Jyar, a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such SIGNALS; for, BEFORE SUN-SETTING, CHARIOTS AND TROOPS OF SOLDIERS IN THEIR ARMOUR WERE SEEN RUNNING ABOUT AMONG THE CLOUDS, AND SURROUNDING OF CITIES. Moreover, at that feast which we call PENTECOST, AS THE PRIESTS WERE GOING BY NIGHT INTO THE INNER [COURT OF THE] TEMPLE, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a QUAKING, AND HEARD A GREAT NOISE, AND AFTER THAT THEY HEARD A SOUND AS OF A GREAT MULTITUDE, SAYING, 'LET US REMOVE HENCE.'" Agape

Incoming email

WASHINGTON -- A NASA space shuttle has taken the first aerial picture of the crater left by the monster comet or asteroid that most scientists believe doomed the dinosaurs to extinction 65 million years ago.

The image shows part of the outer rim of the 112-mile-wide Chicxulub (pronounced CHICK- soo-lube) crater on the northwest corner of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. It's a semicircular trough, 10 to 15 feet deep and three miles wide, the surface evidence of what once was a 3,000-feet-deep gouge in the Earth....

For 10 days in February 2000, the shuttle Endeavor used a radar instrument to trace the ups and downs on 80 percent of the Earth's landmass. It brought back 200 billion detailed, 3-D measurements, which have been analyzed and turned into a high-resolution map of North America that NASA released on Thursday.

In the 1980s, scientists began to suspect that a huge space rock had smashed into what is now the Caribbean Sea. By the 1990s, most were convinced that this was the "smoking gun" responsible for the extinction of the dinosaurs and 70 percent of the species then living on Earth.

Dino Crater Viewed From Space
(If you need help finding the arc of the crater edge in the picture below, BBC has marked the arc on their larger photo.)

The Shroud of Turin: All sides of the issue


...French archaeologist,
Andre Lemaire, and Dr. Joseph Fitzmyer, a widely respected American scholar of Aramaic, have determined that the dialect in which the inscription is written matches most closely to the Galilean dialect of the late 2nd to 6th century CE. There are two indications of this:

The suffix "uy" was used on the word "brother" in "brother of Jesus." In all the inscriptions and texts from first century BCE and first century CE Jerusalem, this suffix was spelled "uhy." The only exception is in "an unusual text called the Genesis Apocryphon" where the "uy" is assumed to be a spelling error. "In Jewish Palestinian Aramaic of Galilee in the late second century and beyond, the -uy spelling is the main one in both inscriptions and texts."

In Aramaic inscriptions found in Jerusalem, the phrase "brother of Jesus" is written by changing the last letter of the word "brother," and butting it directly against the word for "Jesus." In inscriptions of the later dialect of Jewish Palestinian Aramaic, the word "of" is actually spelled out. It is the latter wording that appears on the ossuary....

Kyle McCarter, a Johns Hopkins University archaeologist said that the box was probably for James the brother of Jesus, but that he had "a bit of doubt." He commented: "We may never be absolutely certain. In the work I do we're rarely absolutely certain about anything."

Others were more skeptical:
Robert Eisenman of California State University believes that the existence of an historical Jesus "is a very shaky thing." He told reporters that the new discovery was "...just too pat. It's too perfect."
Rev. Joseph Fitzmyer, a professor at the Catholic University said: "It will always be controversial...The problem is how do you determine that the people involved are the people in the New Testament...It's certainly possible that they are, but I can't see going beyond that."
Frank Zindler, Editor of American Atheist Press questioned whether proper peer review was followed prior to the news of the alleged discovery being made public at a press conference and in the pages of BAR. He added: "Considering the fact that virtually all religious relics claimed to date from before the second century are hoaxes or misunderstandings, it is a priori likely that this 'find' will be found fraudulent if objective scientific study should ever be allowed."

My comment

Knowing how lots of archaeologists automatically throw cold water on the authenticity of any relic that was not found at a proper dig, I wonder how they ever decide what is real and what is fake. The museums are full of relics not found at a proper dig. The first Dead Sea Scrolls to come to light were not at a proper dig.

As for me, I take "THE JEHOASH INSCRIPTION" as authentic unless I see proof otherwise. The patina shows no evidence of modern tampering. The microscopic gold flecks on front and back could easily have gotten there in the temple fire, or in the ground after the fire.

Was Peter Really Buried in Rome

It is also very interesting and highly significant that priest Bagatti, in his attempt to neutralize his original statement and the consternation the discovery had and would have if it were generally known, says in reference to the name Simon Bar Jona (St. Peter), "It may be some other relative of St. Peter, because names were passed on from generation to generation." In other words he says that Peter's name, Simon Bar Joan (Jona), could have been given him from a relative of the same name of generations before him, or, could belong to a relative generations after St. Peter. Both speculations are beyond the realm of the possible. First of all, it could not refer to a relative before St. Peter for the Christian burial ground could only have come into being after Jesus began. His public ministry and had converts; and therefore, could not belong to a relative before Peter's time, since only those who were converted through Christ's ministry were buried there. Titus destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and left it desolate. Therefore, it is impossible that the inscription could refer to a relative after Peter's time.

Archeological Evidence for Jesus - the Ossuary of James ...Preliminary laboratory tests performed by the Geological Survey of Israel confirm that the box’s limestone comes from the Jerusalem area and that the patina - a thin covering that would have formed on the stone over time - has the cauliflower-type shape known to develop in a cave environment, and that it shows no trace of modern elements. This patina was also found within the letters of the inscription, indicating that the inscription was not added later....

Incoming email

Check out
Mark Copfer (13 Mar 2003)

Who is it that needs to "pray to be counted worthy, to escape all these things"? I used to think it was us, born again believers, gentiles, but I now believe that this verse is pertaining to the Jews, about escaping the great tribulation at the abomination of desolation.

Because quite frankly, we as Christians do not have to pray to be counted worthy to escape all these things (trib or great trib) as we are already guarenteed entrance into heaven from the day that we accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. So what do you all think about that verse pertaining to the Jews ? I believe that this is who that verse applies to, and only to the Jews...

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. YBIC Mark

My reply

All obedient believers, Jew or Gentile, follow Jesus' instructions to the letter. When he says to pray, we pray. When he says to be patient, we're patient. When he says to run, we run. When he says to confess our sins, we confess our sins. Faith in Christ gains us salvation, but only the called, chosen and faithful will be part of the Bride of Christ that will be caught up to Heaven before the Tribulation trial that will come upon all the face of the Earth.

It's simple. In Luke 21:36, Jesus was talking to disciples, believers (Mt. 24:3). There are two groups of believers. The wise Philadelphian virgins have the "open door" set before them (Rev. 3:8). The foolish Laodicean virgins face the closed door (Rev. 3:20). The wise virgins will be caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture. The foolish virgins are spued out of the Body of Christ at the Pre-Trib Rapture. They must wash their robes in the blood of Christ to make them white (Rev. 7:14). Then they will be caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him (the foolish servant) in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) WITH THE UNBELIEVERS."

Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Mt. 22:11-14 tells us about a foolish servant without a WHITE ROBE. It says, "when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a WEDDING GARMENT: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless (thought he had it made). Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness (outside the door); there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen."

We want to be chosen, for "they that are with him (the Lamb of God) are called, and chosen, and faithful (Rev. 17:14).

In John 13:8-10, "Peter saith unto him (Jesus), Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, IF I WASH THEE NOT, THOU HAST NO PART WITH ME. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to WASH HIS FEET, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean." To be called, and chosen, and faithful, we must let Jesus wash (cleanse) our feet, i.e., we must confess our sins so he can cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins (known sins), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness" (all sins, known and unknown).

In Luke 21:36, the wise virgins are the "YE" group. The foolish virgins are the "THEM" group. We can choose which group we want to be in. The "YE" group, the wise Philadelphian virgins, are the ones that will be "ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS." The "THEM" group are the foolish Laodicean virgins. The way to avoid the "THEM" group is to do what Jesus said we must do, pray that we will be accounted worthy to ESCAPE in the Pre-Trib Rapture. We (believers) are accounted worthy if Jesus has washed our feet.

In Luke 21:34-36, Jesus said, "TAKE HEED to YOURSELVES, lest at any time YOUR hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon YOU unawares. For as a snare shall it (the Tribulation) come on all THEM that dwell on the face of the WHOLE EARTH. Watch YE therefore, and pray always, that YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall ('hereafter' the 'Come up hither,' Rev. 4:1) come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (at the Pre-Trib Rapture).

Rev. 3:10 ties in. It says, "Because THOU (the 'YE' group) hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from (ek, out of, as in Rev. 5:9) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD ('the whole earth,' Luke 21:35), to try THEM (the 'THEM' group) that dwell upon the earth." Notice that it is the "THEM" group that dwells upon the earth. The "YE" group will have already gone through the "open door" of Heaven when Christ said, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1). Agape

Incoming email, Re: NDE

From: Rich Pope

Marilyn, We've all heard about people who have been pronounced clinically dead and then saw Jesus who sent them back to earth because there was work still to be done.

There are very few documented cases where a person goes to hell during their NDE. But for some reason they are sent back too, maybe God was just trying to show them what they were in for if they didn't change their ways.

I've read accounts of both Jews and Muslims who have died and met whom they claim to be Jesus. You know what? Jesus didn't condemn them. All of these reports indicated an unconditional love. Imagine that! All this time we've been thinking Jews and Muslims who don't believe in Jesus are going to hell automatically. But this isn't what they are reporting.

If you are going to get into the business of posting NDE's on your web page, be sure to include those accounts where non-believers went to heaven to be with Jesus too. It would be unfair to make things appear one-sided.

And if you don't accept the story of the non-believer being with the Lord, then are you going to only accept "Christian" NDE's? I hope not. That would be pretty biased. Rich

My reply

This is Pro and Con, you know. I'm quite willing to present both sides of things. People need to make their own decisions based on knowledge.

I have talked with three people who have had near-death experiences. The first was a realtor that came into our drapery store. It has been long enough that I can't recall much he told me, except that he had a heart attack, died on the table at the hospital and was revived. In the interim, he had an experience I can't remember, maybe a light, tunnel and being sent back for a reason, but I know he didn't go to Hell.

The second was the Tuftex carpet rep that called on us. He had two heart attacks at different times, died and was revived both times. His experience of talking to someone, probably Jesus, and being sent back is like others I have read about. He was a nominal Christian before. His experience changed his life. He became on fire for God.

He made sure he was right with God and went on his rounds telling everyone about what happened to him. One thing happened that was different enough to stick in my mind. After he was at home following the first attack, he was in his backyard garden. Over and over, he was given a choice, did he want to "Stay, or go?" He said it was like flipping a business card back and forth, "Stay, or go?" "Stay, or go?" He finally decided to stay, and the second heart attack hit him right then. He survived it.

The third man and his wife drove from another city to our house one night. They came to tell me about what happened to him. The reason he contacted me was because he liked my first book so much. He was a gold miner that turned painter afterward.

He too, had died twice at different times and had been revived in the hospital. The big difference was that he went to Hell both times. He said, "You don't know how awful it is to be in total darkness without God." After that, he accepted Jesus, read all the Bible except Judges, and now carried his Bible around with him witnessing to everyone he could. He had talked Bible so much that he either lost a job because of it, or almost lost it. I think it was the former, but I'm not sure.

Have you met anyone that had an after-death experience? Shalom and agape

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