Pro and Con 1013

Posted 3-31-03

Dolphins used to clear mines

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/default.stm

Takoma the dolphin is Awol

From Daniel McGrory in Umm Qasr 3-29-03 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C5944-627180%2C00.html

THE US Marines have suffered an embarrassment with reports last night that one of their most prized investigators may have defected. Takoma, the Atlantic bottle-nosed dolphin, had been in Iraq for 48 hours when he went missing on his first operation to snoop out mines.

U.S. in surrender talks with Saddam's cronies

But secret dialogue won't slow coalition advance on Baghdad 3-27-03 http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31749

...Officials said Washington assured senior members of the Iraqi regime that they would be spared if they cooperated with the United States. In a gesture to demonstrate its sincerity, the United States allowed Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri to leave the country and head for Cairo to discuss terms of surrender with Egyptian resident Hosni Mubarak. ...

Saddam heading for Syria?

Report says dictator making preparations to flee Baghdad 3-27-03 http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31753

...Just days before the bombing of Baghdad began, says the paper, Saddam's first wife, Sajida – mother of his heirs Uday and Qusay – fled to Damascus with three truckloads of possessions and 60 bodyguards.

In addition, the dictator reportedly has been selling off property and valuables to raise money for his exile.

Saddam's former protocol minister, Haitham Rashid Wihaib, told newspapers in London that Hussein's family members are staying with Iraq's ambassador to Syria....

Saddams Kin, Aides Flee

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030331-26329118.htm

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said family members of Saddam Hussein's closest aides are fleeing Iraq, and that the United States has not seen or heard the Iraqi leader and his two sons since the allies bombed a leadership bunker March 19th....

Incoming email

From: Jim Bramlett
...About 30 miles to the east of Karbala across the Euphrates is the site of Babylon, the fabled city where King Hammurabi drafted the world's first code of laws about 18 centuries before the birth of Jesus.... See ancient map at http://pub28.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=10169898&usernum=2340524032

I Was Wrong! By Ken Joseph, Jr.

Ken Joseph Jr. is an Assyrian, a minister and was born, raised and resides in Japan where he directs AssyrianChristians.com, the Japan Helpline and the Keikyo Institute.
http://assyrianchristians.com/i_was_wrong_mar_26_03.htm
Amman, Jordan

How do you admit you were wrong? What do you do when you realize those you were defending in fact did not want your defense and wanted something completely different from you and from the world?...

I am an Assyrian. I was born and raised in Japan where I am the second generation in ministry after my Father came to Japan in answer to General Douglas Macarthur's call for 10,000 young people to help rebuild Japan following the war.

As a minister and due to my personal convictions I have always been against war for any and all reasons. It was precisely this moral conviction that led me to do all I could to stop the current war in Iraq.

From participating in demonstrations against the war in Japan to strongly opposing it on my radio program, on television and in regular columns I did my best to stand against what I thought to be an unjust war against an innocent people - in fact my people.

As an Assyrian I was told the story of our people from a young age. How my grandparents had escaped the great Assyrian Holocaust in 1917 settling finally in Chicago.

Currently there are approximately six million Assyrians - approximately 1.2 million in Iraq and the rest scattered in the Assyrian Diaspora across the world.

Without a country and rights even in our native land it has been the prayer of generations that the Assyrian Nation will one day be restored and the people of the once great Assyrian Empire will once again be home.

HOME AT LAST

It was with that feeling, together with supplies for our Church and family that I went to Iraq to do all I could to help make a difference.

The feeling as I crossed the border was exhilarating - 'home at last, I hought, as I would for the first time visit the land of my forefathers....

'We didn't want to be here tonight'. he continued. 'When the Priest asked us to gather for a Peace Service we said we didn't want to come'. He said.

'What do you mean' I inquired, confused. 'We didn't want to come because we don't want peace' he replied.

'What in the world do you mean?' I asked. 'How could you not want peace?' 'We don't want peace. We want the war to come' he continued.

What in the world are you talking about? I blurted back....

Simply put, those living in Iraq, the common, regular people are in a living nightmare. From the terror that would come across the faces of my family at a unknown visitor, telephone call, knock at the door I began to realize the horror they lived with every day.

Over and over I questioned them 'Why could you want war? Why could any human being desire war?' They're answer was quiet and measured. 'Look at our lives!'We are living like animals. No food, no car, no telephone, no job and most of all no hope.'

I would marvel as my family went around their daily routine as normal as could be. Baghdad was completely serene without even a hint of war. Father would get up, have his breakfast and go off to work. The children to school, the old people - ten in the household to their daily chores.

'You can not imagine what it is to live with war for 20, 30 years. We have to keep up our routine or we would lose our minds'

Then I began to see around me those seemingly in every household who had lost their minds. It seemed in every household there was one or more people who in any other society would be in a Mental Hospital and the ever present picture of a family member killed in one of the many wars.

Having been born and raised in Japan where in spite of 50 years of democracy still retains vestiges of the 400 year old police state I quickly began to catch the subtle nuances of a full blown, modern police state.

I wept with family members as I shared their pain and with great difficulty and deep soul searching began little by little to understand their desire for war to finally rid them of the nightmare they were living in....

'Life is hell. We have no hope. But everything will be ok once the war is over.' The bizarre desire for a war that would rid them of the hopelessness was at best hard to understand.

'Look at it this way. No matter how bad it is we will not all die. We have hoped for some other way but nothing has worked. 12 years ago it went almost all the way but failed. We cannot wait anymore. We want the war and we want it now'...

Then I began to feel so terrible. Here I had been demonstrating against the war thinking I had been doing it for the very people I was here now with and yet I had not ever bothered to ask them what they wanted. What they wanted me to do....

With tears streaming down my face in my bed in a tiny house in Baghdad crowded in with 10 other of my own flesh and blood, all exhausted after another day of not living but existing without hope, exhausted in daily struggle simply to not die I had to say to myself 'I was wrong'....

From a former member of the Army to a person working with the police to taxi drivers to store owners to mothers to government officials without exception when allowed to speak freely the message was the same - 'Please bring on the war. We are ready. We have suffered long enough. We may lose our lives but some of us will survive and for our children's sake please, please end our misery....

Incoming email

Are experiencing an increase in the number of attacks from the adversary?

I have since the war began. I don't know why, it may be just a coincidence, or it may be the devil knows his time is short and he must do all he can to distract us. agape

My reply

We have so many all along, I hadn't thought about there being more now. I just bend in the wind, say to myself, "What next?" and flip upright ready to slog on. Agape

From 5 Doves site, "Something to Consider About Possible Rapture Timing"

By Gloria McCrea (28 Mar 2003)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/mar2003/gloriac328.htm

My reply

> > Pentecost. It was the date of the beginning of the Church. It is NEITHER a spring nor a fall feast. It is purported to be Enoch's birthday. It falls on June 6 / Sivan 6.

Pentecost is a spring feast. Summer comes June 21. Agape

Her reply

What I meant about Pentecost....It is not a JEWISH feast per se. It was the FULFILLMENT of a Jewish feast, however. I understand that. But Pentecost, itself, happened during the Church age. That's my "take" on it. In Him, Gloria

My reply

Enoch is a type of the Pre-Trib Rapture. He is said to have not only been born on Sivan 6 but to have been raptured on Sivan 6. Gen. 5:24 says, "Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him (laqach, took him away)."

Enoch's being born on Sivan 6 (Pentecost), the day the Church was born in 30 AD, may point to the Rapture of the Church (being born into a new world) on Sivan 6 (Pentecost) in 03. We will know soon. Spring began March 21, 03, about the time the US launched "Shock and Awe" in Iraq (a rock, Earth).

The Rapture will cause shock and awe on a rock, Earth. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (as Jeremiah was taken up out of the miry pit with a strong cord, i.e., by Christ's righteousness, and rotten rags, i.e., our righteous deeds), and set my feet upon a rock (the heavenly planet where Christ's throne is), and established my goings (the Rapture). And he hath put a NEW SONG (as in Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it (the Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

Both Raptures are depicted in Isa. 18.3-7. Verses 3 and 4 say, "All ye the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he (Christ) lifteth up an ensign (flag) on the mountains (kingdoms, i.e., the UN flag); and WHEN HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET (the ''last trump,' I Cor. 15:51,52), HEAR THEE. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest (the Sabbatismos, the Millennium), and I will consider (nabat, look at) in my dwelling place (Heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat (summer) of harvest" (qatsiyr, harvest as reaped, i.e., the summer Pre-Wrath Rapture on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets).

Continuing, Isa. 18:5-7 says, "For AFORE THE HARVEST when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (i.e., at Pentecost, in the spring), he shall both cut off the sprigs (that have fruit) with pruning hooks, AND TAKE AWAY (i.e., rapture the spring harvest) AND cut down the branches (with no fruit). They (the branches of the vine without fruit (John 15:5,6) SHALL BE LEFT together unto the fowls (hawks, birds of prey) of the mountains (kingdoms), and to the beasts (the Beast and False Prophet, Rev. 13) of the earth: and the fowls (hawks, birds of prey) shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them. In that time (spring, before summer, which starts June 21) shall the present (i.e., the Bride of Christ) be brought unto the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6) of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion" (the heavenly mount Zion, New Jerusalem).

This makes me think that the Pre-Trib Rapture will take place before summer begins on June 21. Pentecost (June 6,7) seems appropriate. Agape.

"Are Isaiah 13 & 18 connected to the rapture?", From 5 Doves site

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/mar2003/ronj327.htm
Ron Jadwin

I enjoy reading many of the thoughts posted on under The Latter-Day Letters. Do you have any response to the following?

As I have been visiting various web sites these past few weeks, I came across a number of references to Isaiah 13 and Isaiah 18 and current events. One of the first regarding Is. 13 was from Koenig’s International News (http://watch.org/) titled, Is the United States Responsible for the Destruction of Babylon?, found under commentary dated 11/11/02. I found another titled, Is Isaiah 18 about the United States? at Israel My Beloved (www.israelmybeloved.com). For the most part having read these articles, I now simply continue to study and watch to see what unfolds. However, there is one issue I would like to raise regarding the first few verses of each of these chapters of Isaiah that I have not found anyone discussing yet. The issue or question that I would like to ask is, does anyone see a picture of the rapture of the church in the early verses of these two chapters of Isaiah? Do you see what I see?

Could the mystery of the rapture that Paul reveals in 1 Corinthians and 1 Thessalonians be found in Isaiah 13 & 18?

Isa 13:2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery, we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Does anyone see?
It is the Lord, the Messiah that is coming:
1Th 4:16 the Lord himself
1Th 4:17 to meet the Lord
Isa 13:2 Lift ye up a banner - messianic symbolism for the Messiah
Isa 18:3 when he lifteth up an ensign - “ensign” = banner

He will come with a calling:
1Th 4:16 with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God
Isa 13:2 exalt the voice unto them
Isa 18:3 when he bloweth a trumpet

First the dead in the earth:
1Th 4:16 and the dead in Christ shall rise first
Isa 18:3 All ye inhabitants of the world = dead
Then the living on earth:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up Isa 18:3 and dwellers on the earth
Will meet the Lord in the sky:
1Th 4:17 to meet the Lord in the air
Isa 13:2 upon the high mountain … shake the hand (meet)
Isa 18:3 see ye … on the mountains … & hear ye.

To be ever present with the Lord:
1Th 4:17 and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Isa 13:2 that they may go into the gates of the nobles.

What do you think? A brother in Christ, Ron

My reply

> > Do you have any response to the following?

Yes. The main subject of Isa. 13 is literal Babylon in the coming Day of God's Wrath. We find "mine anger" in v. 3. In verses 5 and 6, we read "They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. Howl ye; for the day of the LORD (beginning of the Millennium) is at hand; it shall come (first day) as a destruction from the Almighty." Verse 9 says, "the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it." Verse 11 says, "I will punish the world for their evil." Verse 13 says, "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place (when hit by the fiery asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10), in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day (probably Tishri 1, 5768, Sept. 13, 2007) of his fierce anger."

Isa. 13:1 starts out "The burden of Babylon." Verses 19 and 20 say, "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah (destroyed by a fiery asteroid from the heavens). It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there." Keep that in mind as we take a look at the two Raptures.

> > Could the mystery of the rapture that Paul reveals in 1 Corinthians and 1 Thessalonians be found in Isaiah 13 & 18?

Yes, but there are two Raptures. I Thess. 4:13-18, Rev. 4:1 and Isa. 18:3-5 refer to the Pre-Trib Rapture, the first "trump of God." I Cor. 15:51-53, Rev. 7:9,14 and Isa. 13:2,3 refer to the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the "last trump" of God. It takes place on the first day of the millennial reign of Jesus Christ.

The Pre-Wrath Rapture is before noon (Zeph. 2:3-5) on the Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:18-20). That Pre-Wrath Rapture and God's Wrath take place 7 Jewish months before the Second Advent. Eze. 39:12,13 shows that after God's Wrath (Eze. 38:18-20), the Jews bury the bodies 7 months to cleanse the land for Christ's return in glory.

As the Tribulation starts, the Beast of Rev. 13:3-10 will blaspheme "them that dwell in heaven" (v. 6). The first Rapture is already past.

By Mid-Trib, Rev. 12:12 says, "rejoice, he heavens, and ye that dwell in them (those caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture). Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down (cast out of Heaven, Rev. 12:9) unto you (Tribulation saints), having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time (the Great Tribulation).

Agenda of Tishri 1, first day of the 1000-year reign of Christ: 1. Those that were caught up to Heaven before the Tribulation are gathered from one end of Heaven to the other to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23, Mt. 24:31, Mark 13:27)
2. The Pre-Wrath Rapture catches the Tribulation saints up to the heavenly "general assembly" (Mark 13:23; Heb. 12:23)
3. Christ is crowned KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS (Rev. 19:16)
4. Marriage of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7)
5. Judgment Seat of Christ (Rev. 11:15-19)
6. Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Rev. 19:9)

Rev 11:15-18 describes the events of that Tishri 1. It says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and HE SHALL REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders (caught up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1), which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast REIGNED. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great (i.e., reward the believers); AND shouldest destroy them (the unbelievers left on Earth) which destroy the earth."

With those things in mind, let's look at Isa. 13:2. It refers to the "last trump," the Pre-Wrath Rapture, of I Cor. 15:52, the main harvest of Rev. 14:14-17. Verse 16 says, "And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped."

That reaping is the second Rapture, described for us in Rev. 7:9 as "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations." In v. 14, we find out that "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God (in Heaven), and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

Isa. 18:3-7 depicts those that are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. It says, "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he (the LORD of hosts, the Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ, Isa. 44:6) lifteth up an ensign (i.e., the UN flag) on the mountains (kingdoms); AND when he (the Lord Jesus Christ) bloweth a TRUMPET (the first "trump of God, I Thess. 4:16), hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest (the 7th millennium), and I will (in the future) consider (nabat, see) in my dwelling place (Heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest (qatsiyr, harvest as reaped, i.e., with the 'sickle' of Rev. 16); those caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture).

"For afore the harvest (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (i.e., probably PENTECOST, IN THE SPRING, Song of Sol. 2:10-14), he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks (i.e., to take them to Heaven), AND TAKE AWAY (take the Bride of Christ up to Heaven) AND cut down the branches (i.e., cut the unfruitful branches off, Luke 12:46; Mt. 24:51; Mt. 22:11-14). THEY (i.e., the foolish Laodicean virgins) SHALL BE LEFT together unto the fowls (ayit, hawks, birds of prey) of the mountains (kingdoms), and to the beasts of the earth (the Beast and False Prophet of Rev. 13, who rule during the Tribulation): and the fowls (ayit, hawks, birds of prey) shall SUMMER (follows the spring Rapture) upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them.

"In that time (eth, time, now; I hope it's Pentecost THIS SPRING, Sivan 6,7, 6763, June 6,7, 2003) shall the present be brought (i.e., raptured) unto the LORD of hosts of a people (Israel, i.e., Messianic Jews will be raptured) scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled (baza, cleaved), to the place (Heaven) of the name (i.e., Yeshua) of the LORD of hosts (Isa. 44:6), the mount Zion" (the heavenly one).

Spring began March 21. We may have already entered the season of the Pre-Trib Rapture. We are to get ready (by letting Jesus wash our feet, i.e., confess our sins to God so he can cleanse us from all unrighteousness, I John 1:9) and patiently watch.

Rev. 3:3 says, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Verse 10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from (ek, out of, as in Rev. 5:9) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

Luke 21:25-36 says, "there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth DISTRESS OF NATIONS, WITH PERPLEXITY; the sea (nations, Rev. 17:15) and the waves (people) roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory (the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:31, seen the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture/Day of God's Wrath). And WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION (THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE) DRAWETH NIGH.

"And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (other nations); When they now shoot forth (push at each other in war), ye see and know of your own selves that SUMMER IS NOW NIGH AT HAND. So likewise ye, WHEN YE SEE THESE THINGS COME TO PASS, KNOW YE THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled (following Israel growing leaves in the Six-Day War of 1967, Mt. 24:32-34). Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day (i.e., of the Pre-Trib Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation) come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, THAT YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE (in the Pre-Trib Rapture) all these things that shall come to pass (in the Tribulation), and to stand before the Son of man" (stand before Christ in Heaven).

> > Is the United States Responsible for the Destruction of Babylon?

No. The Lord will do that with the binary asteroid that is called "the curse that goeth forth (orbits) over the face of the whole earth" (Zech. 5:3). Agape

From 5 Doves site, Re: Who will repopulate the earth?

Paul Wilson (28 Mar 2003)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/mar2003/paulw328.htm

"please provide a answer"

who will repopulate the earth???will it be the 144,000(I don't think they are ever taken from the earth or killed)??? or will it be someone esle???( in a recent post someone meantioned to only ones left to see the destruction of babylon would bethe sinners(i don't know the exact word he/she used). paul

My reply

> > who will repopulate the earth?

The sheep of Mt. 25:31-34, and Israel. The living Israelites will be saved in a day (Isa. 66:8). Israelites that have died will be put back on Earth. Daniel will stand in his lot of land on the 1335th day following Mid-Trib (Dan. 12:13).

However, some Israelites will choose Heaven as their abode. Heb. 11:15,16 says, "truly, if they (Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah, 11: 4-11) had been mindful of that country (Israel on Earth) from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned (to Israel on Earth). But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (the heavenly New Jerusalem).

> > will it be the 144,000(I don't think they are ever taken from the earth or killed)?

The Bride saints that are caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture appear before the Lord's throne in Heaven in Rev. 4:1 and 5:9. The Bride of Christ sings "a new song."

The 144,000 and the great multitude that no man can number (Rev. 7:9,14) are "REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH in Rev. 14:3-5. It says, "they (the 144,000) sung as it were a NEW SONG (THE 144,000 Israelites ARE ADDED TO THE BRIDE GROUP) before the throne (in Heaven), and before the four beasts, and the elders (of Rev. 4 and 5): and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS (foolish at the 1st Rapture and having become wise by the 2nd Rapture). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. THESE WERE REDEEMED FROM AMONG MAN (on Earth), being the firstfruits (last rank of the First Resurrection, I Cor. 15:23, Rev. 20:5,6) unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God" (which is in Heaven).

The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place just before the wrath of God hits Earth at noon (Zech. 2:3-5) on the Tishri 1 that begins the 1000-year kingdom of Christ. The Second Advent will follow Tishri 1, the Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:18-20; 39:12,13), by 7 months. Jesus will return on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year.

> > only ones left to see the destruction of babylon would be the sinners

True. Both the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Pre-Wrath Rapture will have taken place before the asteroid of Rev. 10 hits Babylon at noon. At that time, all believers will be in Heaven, leaving all living unbelievers on Earth to receive the Wrath of God.

Rev 11:16-18 says, "the four and twenty elders, which sat before God (in Heaven) on their seats (thrones), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (i.e., crowned KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS on Tishri 1, day of Pre-Wrath Rapture), and wast (at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and art TO COME (at the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME (Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets, when 7 trumpet judgments hit Earth), and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great (i.e., all believers); AND shouldest destroy them (the unbelievers) which destroy the earth." Agape

Incoming email, Re: The Babylon question

Please check out http://raptureready.com/ and go to "Nearing Midnight", the weekly commentary for March 31 entitled "The Babylon Question". I would appreciate your comments regarding this viewpoint. Thanks --- The Babylon Question Will the city of Babylon be rebuilt? Because of the current conflict in Iraq, this question has been raging among prophecy commentators. At the most recent meeting of the Pre-Tribulation Study Group, Babylon was a very popular topic at breakfast, lunch, and dinner tables. Saddam Hussein has already made a token attempt to rebuild the ancient city that King Nebuchadnezzar once ruled. Saddam’s Babylon is far from becoming a functioning city. His version of the famous city is just a few buildings that, after the war, might make for a nice tourist stop. Many Christian leaders believe that a new Babylon will someday become a center of political power. The Left Behind series has given strong support to the argument that Babylon will be rebuilt as the Antichrist’s global headquarters. There is no shortage of Scripture passages that people use to argue for a revived Babylon. I’ve looked at most of these references, and I have great difficulty putting them into a future tense. All of these passages require a heavy amount of interpretation. Here are three frequently cited examples: "The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet. Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces. For out of the north there cometh up a nation against her, which shall make her land desolate, and none shall dwell therein: they shall remove, they shall depart, both man and beast" (Jeremiah 50:1-3). The prophet said further: "Therefore, behold, the days come, that I will do judgment upon the graven images of Babylon: and her whole land shall be confounded, and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her. Then the heaven and the earth, and all that is therein, shall sing for Babylon: for the spoilers shall come unto her from the north, saith the LORD" (Jeremiah 51:47-48). “Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth. And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base” (Zechariah 5:5-11) The primary focus of prophecy is Jerusalem. In fact, nearly all the major events of the tribulation will have some relevance to Jerusalem or Israel. We are told the Antichrist will sign a peace treaty with Israel, he will declare himself to be God in a temple located in Jerusalem, and the Beast will try to defeat Christ as He returns to the Holy City. The only commentary we read about Babylon describes its destruction. One of my strongest arguments against the possibility that the city of Babylon will be rebuilt is based on the 18th chapter of Revelation, which says that when the city is destroyed, the merchants of the world will mourn its destruction as a great financial loss. We could very easily apply this prophecy to a city like New York, but for now, there is no way we could honestly say this about any city in Iraq. It would take at least 20 years of continuous construction to turn a nearly empty desert into one of the world’s leading centers of commerce. Because the Antichrist will only rule for three and half years, time will be very limited. "And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men” (Revelation 18: 9-13).

My reply

Good to hear from you again. > > Will the city of Babylon be rebuilt? Yes. The total destruction has not yet happened. It went into gradual decline before. Jer. 50:13 says, "Because of the wrath of the LORD it SHALL NOT BE INHABITED, but it shall be WHOLLY DESOLATE: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues.Jer. 50:39,40 says, "it shall be NO MORE INHABITED FOR EVER; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof (totally wiped them out with an asteroid impact), saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein." Isa 13:20 says of Babylon, "It shall NEVER BE INHABITED, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there." Jer 50:45,46 says, "Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Babylon; and his purposes, that he hath purposed AGAINST THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS (now called Iraq): Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them. At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved (in the worldwide earthquake of Eze. 38:20), and the cry is heard among the nations." Rev 16:18,19 says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath." > > Saddam Hussein has already made a token attempt to rebuild the ancient city that King Nebuchadnezzar once ruled. Saddam’s Babylon is far from becoming a functioning city. > > It would take at least 20 years of continuous construction to turn a nearly empty desert into one of the world’s leading centers of commerce. When all nations are cooperating in building, buying and selling, it can come to pass on time. Why are these things coming upon Babylon? Jer. 50 11 makes it clear, referring to them as "ye destroyers of mine heritage" (Israel). Saddam has been backing Arafat and terrorism against the Jews, even sending large sums of money to parents of suicide bombers. Verse 28 says to "declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the VENGEANCE OF HIS TEMPLE." These things will not go unpunished. The worst is yet to come at the end of the shortened Tribulation. Agape

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