Pro and Con 1016

Posted 4-13-03

CIA sets up department to implement the road map

By Aluf Benn

4-12-03 - The U.S. Central Intelligence Agency is establishing a special department that will be responsible for implementing the road map for an Israeli-Palestinian peace agreement....

At the outset of Phase I:
Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel's right to exist in PEACE AND SECURITY and calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire to end armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis everywhere. All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel.

Israeli leadership issues unequivocal statement affirming its commitment to the two-state vision of an independent, viable, sovereign Palestinian state living in PEACE AND SECURITY alongside Israel, as expressed by President Bush, and calling for an immediate end to violence against Palestinians everywhere. All official Israeli institutions end incitement against Palestinians....

fulfills the vision of two states, Israel and the sovereign, independent, democratic and viable Palestine, living side-by-side in PEACE AND SECURITY....

Elements of a performance-based road map to a permanent two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Draft Dec., 2002

...Phase I: Ending terror and violence, normalizing Palestinian life, and building Palestinian institutions present to May 2003....

Incoming email

I thought you'd be interested in this story from Science@NASA: On March 29, 2003, in the constellation Leo, something exploded--bright enough to see through small telescopes in brightly-lit cities. Astronomers who have collected data from the event say it provides the long-sought link between supernovas and mysterious gamma ray bursts.
It's a Supernova
A bright explosion two billion light years away is the missing link between supernovas and gamma ray bursts.

April 10, 2003: Scientists have discovered that one of the brightest gamma ray bursts on record is also a supernova. It's the first direct evidence linking these two types of explosions, both triggered by the death of a massive star.

NASA's High-Energy Transient Explorer satellite (HETE) initially detected the burst on March 29, 2003, in the constellation Leo. For more than 30 seconds, the burst outshone the entire universe in gamma rays.

Two hours later, the explosion's optical afterglow remained a trillion times more luminous than the Sun... In Arizona, astronomers turned the Multiple Mirror Telescope (MMT) at Mount Hopkins toward the gamma ray burst afterglow and soon spotted the telltale signs of a supernova. Scientists cannot yet determine which came first, the burst or the supernova, but the same event, a star explosion, was certainly the trigger for both.

"There should no longer be doubt in anybody's mind that gamma ray bursts and supernovae are connected," said Thomas Matheson of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics (CfA), Cambridge, Mass., and a member of the team that made the discovery.... Left: The March 29, 2003, gamma ray burst lasted about 50 seconds.

Saturn's new moon

By Dr David Whitehouse

...The latest discovery means there 31 known moons of Saturn. Jupiter has 58.

The new satellite was discovered on 5 February ...

Incoming email, Re: Iraq and June Events

Sure hope June 6-7 is our day of deliverance. How exciting!

Changes in Iraq appear key to the upcoming Middle East peace treaty. There is also an important question on who owns Iraq's oil. Effectively, the UN does right now. Certainly controls it. But, note that the UN's oil for food program, renewed about every 6 months, will expire around June 3rd. As the world leaders assemble a new government for Iraq, they'll also have to address the key issue of Iraq's oil. That June 3rd date jumped out at me.

Seems we are rapidly heading for these events.

1. Preparations for a Middle East peace treaty - perhaps in early summer. A key item will be Israel giving land for a Palestinian state. As you've pointed out, God is completely against this.

2. Perhaps the death of the current Pope. Though committing numerous serious errors, he may just be laying the ground work for the next Pope. Current Pope has been active in the Middle East. The next one will simply continue that and people will already be accustomed to such action. Last year there was a flurry of activity with the college of Cardinals. Recall that we learned then that it will take about 3 weeks to select the next Pope. Believing that the Rapture is to precede the revealing of the Beast, and assuming the current Pope is not him, we may see this current Pope die sometime around early or mid May 2003.

3. UN presence will apparently increase, likely in Iraq. Opinions of France and UK for large UN role in post Saddam Iraq will apparently prevail over the US plans. I've seen documents in the past that indicate the UN is eager to levy a tax on member states. If they do, they'll be poised to field their own army.

4. Global unrest (such as N. Korean threats) will continue as fears of bioterror, sars, ebola, et al and nuclear fears continue to simmer in preparation of the plagues of Revelation.

Although the world has been glued to their TVs and media regarding Iraq, seems the month of May will be critical for us to observe. You've long taught that we can know - if we watch. May 2003 promises to be an exciting month.

My brother-in-law, normally so hostile towards my wife and I and particularly anything to do with Israel, recently said that if we are raptured, he's going straight to our house and read everything on our bookshelf. So despite the conflicts, somewhere deep down he is thinking his positions. It's encouraging to know he does have a plan "B". But, sad he won't move it to the front burner. Blessings on you and Ed.

My reply

I hope the Rapture is this coming Pentecost too. It's interesting to watch things coming together as prophesied.

Re the Tribulation Pope. I think he will be an old man that will be in office ('one is,' Rev. 17:10) when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place ('they that ARE with him,' Rev. 17:14), but will be left behind. Isa 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head (6th head of the great red dragon); and the prophet that teacheth lies (the 7th head), he is the tail" (i.e., Satan will be in him).

> > the UN is eager to levy a tax on member states. If they do, they'll be poised to field their own army.

Zech. 14:1-3 mentions "all nations." That says UN in my head. It says, "Behold, the day of the LORD (the Millennium) cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations ('all nations'), as when he fought in the day of battle."

Of that day, Jos 10:11 says, "it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down GREAT STONES (asteroids, as in Rev. 8:8,10) from heaven upon them unto Azekah (meaning dug over), and they died: they were more which died with hailstones (eben, sling-stones) than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

There is a 7-month gap between Tishri 1, when the asteroids impact Earth (Eze. 38:20), and the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13) on the following Nisan 1 in a Jewish Leap Year. Therefore, the Day of the LORD is more than one single day. It is the Millennium, and it starts on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets.

The first day of the millennial Day of the Lord is called the Day of God in 2Pe 3:12. It says, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the DAY OF GOD, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
Then "his feet shall stand in that day (Nisan 1, first day of the Regnal Year) upon the mount of Olives (Zech 14:4). Blessings on you and yours. Agape

Incoming email, Re: Is war justified?

From: Ellen Gonzalez

Hi Marilyn, I sent the following to Five Doves after reading the letter by Leslie Bell. If I get a response from Leslie, I'll forward.
I do not know who this person is, but the following letter was posted to Marilyn Agee, asking her opinion on the war.

Incoming email, Re: A growing "mortal" danger
From: Leslie Bell -

...Right out of the box, *any* war except war against the Devil and his angels is wrong for any human being, let alone Christians. There is NO justification for any kind of war of any kind anywhere in the Bible *after* Jesus' life on Earth...An earnest Christian, one who is truly following in the footsteps of the Lord, does not kill for any reason. EVER. THOU SHALT NOT KILL....

Christians in America better start getting their heads on straight, or there will be precious few American Christians in that first Rapture.

Would Jesus support this war? Not in a trillion years. Even if Saddam Hussein committed 9-11 himself, which he did not. THERE IS NO ROOM IN THE CHRISTIAN FAITH FOR REVENGE. It's time for Christians in America to start living as Christ did, and revile George W. Bush for what he is: the latest Caesar wannabe and precursor to the real Antichrist. n Agape, Leslie Bell

My reply

> > Would Jesus support this war? Not in a trillion years. You will find out that the Lord Jesus Christ is in complete control of everything, his prophecies to bring to pass. Agape

Her reply

I am so disappointed that you chose to treat this as a simple attack from Satan when it is what I earnestly feel and believe. You will go back and forth with someone like Rich Pope for months in many pro and cons, quoting scripture, where he is wrong, where he is right, etc., and I'd sincerely hoped you'd do that here.

The Holy Spirit is grieving me deeply on this, it needs to be discussed thoroughly, and I was hoping that, if you believe I'm so wrong (to the point of being an attack from Satan that must be completely ignored or cursorily dealt with as you did) that you would point out, with Scripture, exactly where I am wrong. You have studied it all your life, and I know you know it far well than I. All I have to go on is my relationship with God, which is telling me that this war is the first step mankind takes toward Tribulation, and it is my country, America, that is doing this.

Please Marilyn, if you believe I am so wrong, tell me exactly why and where and quote what Christ taught to back it up. I really am terrorized that a prideful American Church will not confess support of this war and the men fighting it as a sin and miss the Rapture... of this I am certain! In The Lord Jesus Christ's Service, Leslie Bell...

My reply

Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus Christ, the Redeemer) is the same as Yahweh of hosts (the Redeemer) in Isa. 44:6.

In the first chapter of The Revelation of Jesus Christ, in verses 8, 17 and 18, Jesus said, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY....I am the first (Yahweh of hosts) AND the last (Yeshua/Jesus): I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen (meaning so be it)."

In verses 13 and 16 in the last chapter of The Revelation of Jesus Christ, Jesus said, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the end, the first (Yahweh of hosts) AND the last (Yeshua/Jesus)....I am the root (Yahweh of hosts) AND the offspring (Jesus) of David."

In Isa 44:1-7, he said, "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour MY SPIRIT upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses. One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel. Thus saith the LORD (YHWH, Yahweh) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH, Yahweh) of hosts; I am the first (Yahweh King of Israel), AND I am the last (Yahweh of hosts, the Redeemer, Yeshua); and beside me there is no God. And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them."

Yahweh of hosts (the Redeemer, Yeshua) is the same as Yahweh the King of Israel, and he is God. II Cor. 5:19 explains, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." Yahweh of hosts (the Redeemer, Yeshua) is the one who gave Israel the Ten Commandments.

In Isa. 48:1-3,12-18, the LORD of hosts speaks. He says, "Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the LORD, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon THE GOD OF ISRAEL; THE LORD OF HOSTS IS HIS NAME. I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass....

"Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he (Yeshua, Yahweh of Hosts); I am the first (Yahweh King of Israel), I also am the last (Yahweh of hosts). Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: HE WILL DO HIS PLEASURE ON BABYLON, AND HIS ARM SHALL BE ON THE CHALDEANS. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (the first), and his Spirit, hath sent me (Yeshua/Jesus, the last). Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea."

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. Rom 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his."

Yeshua (meaning Yahweh saves), the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Heb. 1:1-3), Jesus Christ, the Son of God that gave Israel the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" (Ex. 20:13), said, "ye shall hear of WARS and rumours of wars: SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED: for all these things MUST COME TO PASS, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows" (Mt. 24:6-8).

These wars and rumours of wars are decreed by God. They "MUST COME TO PASS." I do not want to pit myself against God. I just watch like he commanded us to do. He knows best.

The capitol of the world will be built at Babylon, Iraq. The UN and UR headquarters will be built there. The Beast and False Prophet will rule from there. The Lord is bringing this to pass. He is gathering his enemies into one place, and their city will be destroyed by an asteroid in one hour (Rev. 18) after both Raptures have taken every believer to Heaven. Only unbelievers will feel God's Wrath.

Babylon burned the Lord's temple and desecrated the vessels from it. One doesn't come off unscathed by doing such against God. Jer. 50:28 says, "The voice of them that flee and escape out of the land of Babylon, to declare in Zion the vengeance of the LORD our God, the VENGEANCE OF HIS TEMPLE."

Incoming email

I sent the following letter to Leslie:

I saw your letter at Marilyn's website and I wanted to ask you a question: What do you think about God's commands to the Israelites to go into the Promised Land and slaughter all the men, women, and children, even the animals? Read Numbers 31, especially verse 17. Verse 2 specifically had the Lord telling Moses to "avenge the children of Israel of the Midianites", and Joshua 6:7 says that the Israelites utterly destroyed ALL that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox and sheep and ass.

The Old Testament has many accounts of warfare by the Israelites, God's chosen people, as He specifically commanded them, and it was NOT purely in self-defense. These were battles by the Israelites, that would be considered aggressive, to go in and TAKE the land from the rightful owners, and slaughter everyone there! Some of the battles were pretty big, even by today's standards, as Joshua 8:25 mentions 12,000 being killed in Ai, and then the king of the city was hung on a tree and his body left hanging till sundown! War is not pretty, but at times God Himself commands it.

I would really like your thoughts on these verses.
Marilyn, I hope you don't mind that I copied it and used this letter, but I think many Christians feel the same way as Leslie and I think the Bible is pretty clear on the subject.

I appreciate all the studies that you share with us through your site and the Five Doves. God bless, Ellen G

My reply

I don't mind. Leslie is trying to do right as she sees it. She is on a crusade to enforce the commandment, thou shalt not kill, on everyone. That would be nice if she could do it, but she can't.

In Scripture, she only sees what she wants to see. In the Old Testament, she sees the commandment, thou shalt not kill. In the New Testament, she sees how Jesus and the apostles lived, and how most of them suffered martyrdom rather than fight for what they knew to be right. That's all right, she knows that she shouldn't kill, but she doesn't stop there.

She gets so caught up in her crusade for that one thing that she closes her eyes and ears to other things Scripture says. She doesn't want to think about the times during the Dispensation of the Law that God commanded the Israelites to go to war. She doesn't even seem to have considered that the do-not-kill commandment might apply to an individual rather than to a government. Pro 11:14 seems to refer to rulers. It says, "Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety."

Standing upon the platform of what she knows to be right, do not kill, Leslie emphatically declares, "Christians in America better start getting their heads on straight, or there will be precious few American Christians in that first Rapture." She also said, "It's time for Christians in America to start living as Christ did, and revile George W. Bush for what he is: the latest Caesar wannabe and precursor to the real Antichrist."

Wait a minute. She started out with truth, but ran too far with her information. According to her rule, I would be guilty of sin for NOT REVILING PRESIDENT BUSH. Is reviling the President something that Jesus would do? or tell us to do?

What does Scripture say?

II Peter 2:10,11 says of some that "despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord."

In Mt. 7:1,2, Jesus said, "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

Rev 18:4-6 says, "I heard another VOICE FROM HEAVEN, saying, Come out of her (i.e., escape at the Pre-Wrath Rapture), my people, that ye be not partakers of her (the harlot world church's) sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her (i.e., meaning you, God's people in Heaven, reward her) even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double."

Psa. 149:5 says, "Let the saints (God's people) be joyful in glory (Heaven): let them sing aloud (the 'new song' of Rev. 5:9) upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a TWOEDGED SWORD in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; TO EXECUTE UPON THEM THE JUDGMENT WRITTEN: THIS HONOUR HAVE ALL HIS SAINTS. Praise ye the LORD."

The twoedged sword belongs to the Almighty, so he is the one that puts his sword in the hand of his saints. In Rev 1:8-16 Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (Lord of the Old Testament, the pre-incarnate Christ) and the ending (Lord of the New Testament, the incarnate Christ), saith the Lord, which is (at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the ALMIGHTY.... And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks (in Heaven) one like unto the Son of man (Jesus Christ, the Almighty), clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a GOLDEN GIRDLE (symbol of deity). His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp TWOEDGED SWORD: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

As I understand it, Jesus uses his twoedged sword to cut off the foolish Laodicean virgins at the Pre-Trib Rapture. Later, at the end of the shortened Tribulation, Jesus sends his angels to gather all his saints that are in Heaven (Mt. 24:31) to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23). He also sends angels to gather the Tribulation saints from Earth to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Mk. 13:27). That is the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

The Coronation of Jesus Christ takes place, followed by the Marriage of the Lamb. Then the Judgment Seat of Christ convenes. It is here that he gives his saints power to execute upon the unsaved the judgment written.

Joe 2:15-18 says, "Blow the trumpet (it is the Feast of Trumpets) in Zion (the heavenly one), sanctify a fast (coming up is the Day of Atonement, a fast day; between Trumpets and Atonement are the Days of Awe), call a solemn assembly (i.e., the 'general assembly' of Heb. 12:23): Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders (the 24 of Rev. 4:4, the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles), gather the children (all of them, at the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom (Jesus Christ) go forth of his chamber, and the bride (Bride of Christ) out of her closet (chuppah, wedding canopy). Let the priests (saints of Rev. 5:10), the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them (the Body of Christ that are now priests) say, SPARE THY PEOPLE (Israel on Earth), O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen (unbelievers)should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people."

Rev. 11:5-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of OUR LORD, and of HIS CHRIST; and he shall REIGN for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on the Feast of Trumpets that begins Christ's 1000-year kingdom reign), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (the Second Advent is 7 months future, Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry (Gog's army is attacking Israel), and thy wrath is come (to save Israel), and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints (Jews and Gentiles), and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest destroy them (the unbelievers) which destroy the EARTH (i.e., destroy them with the 'sword of the LORD,' Jer. 12:12). And the temple of God was opened in HEAVEN, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament (the two stone tablets with the 10 commandments on them): and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

The two stone tablets represent the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10. When these are dumped on Earth, civilization as we know it will be destroyed. Moses also played this out when he broke the first set of stone tablets, because Israel had broken the commandments by worshiping the golden calf. The earthquake will be worldwide (Rev. 16:17-19). Every wall will fall (Eze. 38:20). Israel's enemies will be stopped. The nation will be born in a day (Isa. 66:8). As soon as Israel travails, she will bring forth her children.

So the saints (Jews and Gentiles) will have their say in the matter before the court. Their plea will be to save unbelieving Israel on Earth, and it is done. The two stones stop the army invading Israel and destroy Babylon. Egypt will be hurt so badly that no will live there for the next 40 years." Eze 29:11 says, "No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years." Agape

   Pro and Con 1017   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2002, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 4-13-03