Pro and Con 103, Uploaded 5-22-98
Incoming Email What would you suggest as a study guide to teach Revelation for a home Bible Study?
My reply My book,"Revelations 2000." Avon Books renamed it. I called it "The Master Key, Revelation's Secrets Revealed." It explains The Revelation of Jesus Christ verse by verse. Look for it in secular chains. Try B. Dalton first. Today, I got email that it was in Sav-On Drugs and Target in Moreno Valley, CA. In B. Dalton's, we found it in the New Age section, but it is definitely not New Age. (Note: someone else found it in B. Dalton's under "Inspirational.")
Incoming Email Just wanted to comment on a couple of posts, and then ask you one more question on your date calculations.
I posted on the Five Doves my thoughts on the 30/50 window that the Rabbi's are concerned with, and everyone's attempt to tie the Rapture to it. The problem is that the Rapture is for the Church, and this Window is tied to Israel, as you said specifically to the Levitical Priests. All this really means is that sometime before the Rapture, the Religious authority that Jesus gave to the Church, will be given to Israel. This could be tied to the 144,000 who will Minister during the Trib. I believe that they could be Christians now who willingly enter into the Tribulation for this very purpose. The reason I say that is because from your observation of the Song of Solomon applying to the Church, it is seen in the first part, which talks about Rapture One (as you call it) the First Ripe Figs appear. This, I believe is refering to the 144,000. In the second passage (Rapture Two) there is no mention of the Figs, hence they have been Raptured. I will also add here, cause some one mentioned it that I believe the Second Rapture will be on the Feast of Tabernacles. There are Three Feasts that the men were supposed to appear in the Lord's Presence in The Temple in Israel (Firstfruits, Pentecost and Tabernacles). At each Feast the Firstfruits were Offered to the Lord in the Temple. There are also three groups of People called Firstfruits in the New Testament. Jesus (and possibly those who were ressurected with him-Matt) The Church and The 144,000. We know that Jesus was Ressurected on the Feast of Firstfruits, we are convinced that the Church will be Ressurected on Pentecost, so that would leave the 144000 Firstfruits to be Ressurected on Tabernacles. And that is the Feast that is pictured in the Revelation. The Vintage and the Winepress is the connection. Figs were also Harvested during this Feast.
Concerning the Timing of the Rapture. I think that it will be morning in Israel. When Jesus says He will give them "The Morning Star", this is refering to the Morning Star (as it Typifies Jesus) which appears about one half hour before Sun Rise. Now, this could be at the same time (9am) that the Spirit was poured out but I think that it will be about one half hour before dawn in Israel (4am). A good question would be, "At what hour were the Two Wheat Loaves waved before the Lord in the Temple?" This might provide more insight. Also, "God came walking in the Cool of the Day" which is just before Dawn.
I also thought you might be interested in my thoughts on the Year 2,000 Computer problem. I just started reading a book that just came out on this, and it makes for some interesting reading! Years ago through some other books I read (Larry Burkett "Coming Economic Earthquake" and two others) I came to the conclusion that many of the events mentioned in the first half of the Tribulation were the result of a world wide economic depression. This is described by the last three seals in the Revelation. My parents who grew up in the last depression have forseen another one coming. And many of them were predicting in 1995. With the recent Asian crises I thought it was about to start. But the IMF bailed them out. So it dawned on me that they are not ready for it yet, in fact they don't really want it to happen! Then I started reading about this Y2K problem. From the looks of things, there is no way that they are going to avoid it. Europe will probably be on top of it if I don't miss my quess. But it seems that the Great Sword that takes Peace (Greek=Prosperity) from the earth, could be this very Y2K problem. It has the potential of literally bringing the entire world to a screeching halt on Jan 1, 2,000. This may or may not fit in with your time schedule, but there is one thing that is brought out with this. If this turns out to be the Sword, and if the Rapture is this year, than that means that the effects of the Rapture on America (and hence the Worlds economy) are Minimal. There is almost none effect. As close as the world is now to economic collapse, the Rapture should Kick it off. But it doesn't appear to from the events in Revelation. Especially if your Chronology is correct (2001-2007). There can be only one explanation for this, and one only. And that is that NOT VERY MANY CHRISTIANS ARE TAKEN! This is the only possible explanation. And unfortuately this is exactly what the Letter to the Laodaceans seems to be warning us about. The majority of the Church (In Europe and America) won't be watching, cause they don't care. I am convinced that the majority of Christians taken will be from those countries that are persecuting Christians, especially China. What else explains they apparent Prosperity of the Earth at the time the Tribulation starts, if the Rapture occured three years perviously? Would be interested in your comments on this.
> Religious authority that Jesus gave to the Church, will be given to Israel. This
> could be tied to the 144,000 who will Minister during the Trib.
Levi has only 12,000 sealed in Rev. 7:7, so I think it does not refer to the 144,000.
> Song of Solomon applying to the Church, it is seen in the first part, which talks
> about Rapture One (as you call it) the First Ripe Figs appear. This, I believe is
> refering to the 144,000.
Song 2:13 says, "The fig tree putteth forth her GREEN FIGS, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away." It is the time of green figs and the firstripe grapes, such a narrow time limit too--end of May or early June.
> I believe the Second Rapture will be on the Feast
> of Tabernacles. There are Three Feasts that the men were supposed to
> appear in the Lord's Presence in The Temple in Israel (Firstfruits,
> Pentecost and Tabernacles). At each Feast the Firstfruits were
> Offered to the Lord in the Temple.
I don't. The Day of God's Wrath is on the preceding Feast of Trumpets. You would be putting the Tribulation saints through the wrath of God that is scheduled for unbelievers only. The Judgment Seat of Christ is in Heaven on the Feast of Trumpets. The Tribulation saints must be there for it and the following Marriage Supper of the Lamb.
Read Lev. 23:34f. It does not call the offerings on Tabernacles firstfruits. How could they be? It is the end of harvest, not the beginning.
> The Vintage and the Winepress is the connection.
Both are on the Feast of Trumpets.
> Concerning the Timing of the Rapture. I think that it will be morning
> in Israel. When Jesus says He will give them "The Morning Star", this
> is refering to the Morning Star (as it Typifies Jesus) which appears
> about one half hour before Sun Rise.
Any planet seen from midnight to dawn is a morning star. If I remember right, my correspondent from Finland said that Saturn comes up at about 2:30 to 3:00 AM, as viewed from Jerusalem. His email is on a previous Pro and Con, so you can check it. I'm too pressed for time right now.
> it seems that the Great Sword that takes Peace
> (Greek=Prosperity) from the earth, could be this very Y2K problem.
The Sword of the Lord is the asteroid that hits on the 2300th day of the Tribulation. It will destroy civilization as we know it. There will be a worldwide earthquake. Every wall will fall.
(Note: Yesterday, 5-21-98, we got a quick lesson concerning the Y2K computer problem. The troubles are already starting. We were at my daughter's. I was talking to her son on the phone and had just told him that on the Y2K problem, we had waited too long, that now there were not enough technicians in this country to do the job in time. He had taken classes in computers in college and understood the problem. Just then, my husband Ed tapped me on the shoulder and said that we just had our first problem with it. A charge slip with the 00 expiration date would not be accepted by the terminal. This problem will not wait until the turn of the century to cause chaos. It is starting already. There is a good chance it will have something to do with the monetary and governmental changes that will come about during the Tribulation. The False Prophet will "think to change times and laws," Dan. 7:25. There may be a connection.)
> economic collapse, the Rapture should Kick it off
Seems possible, but temporarily. Think of the bank's immediate problems.
> What else explains they apparent Prosperity of the
> Earth at the time the Tribulation starts, if the Rapture occured three
> years perviously?
Remember Joseph told that there would be 7 good years and then 7 bad years. One fifth of the grain was to be taken up in the 7 good years.
(Note: If these are the good years, I'd hate to be here during the bad ones. They are to be the worst seven years since Adam was put on Earth. Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.")
Incoming Email I feel moved to write out about this Ron Wyatt person and his claim of finding the blood of Christ on the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. I feel it's a lot of bunk and I'm surprised you're posting it.
The thing that impresses me the most about you is that you do your homework. I've read every one of your PRO AND CONs and found all your answers to be not only thoughtful and just, but researched. It's one reason I was so taken by END OF THE AGE and enjoy visiting your Web page. You are truly blessed. But this Ron Wyatt person is crud. Allow me to explain.
First, the crucifixion most likely did not take place above Jeremiah's grotto. I've been there. Both my minister, our guide in Israel and the guide in the grotto claimed it wasn't the site. The Church of the Holy Sepulcher has been around for over 1,000 years and it encloses both golgotha and the tomb of Joseph or Arimathea. Before the Church was built, a Roman emperor had built a pagan temple on the site, primarily to dissuade early Christians from meeting there. So the place has a history. Even the Serbian Orthodox church, which is built outside the old wall, admits that the Holy Sepulcher church is the likely site of Christ's death and resurrection. Can all these sources be wrong? Can history have lied to us? It seems so unlikely, yet Ron has somehow discovered the true site passed over for 2,000 years.
Second, the blood on the mercy seat is really a stretch. Granted, when I read that information originally on your Web page (several months back) I was seriously moved. But then logic took over. 20 feet down? Through a crevasse? How much blood does the human body hold? And how long would Christ have bled to move that volume of blood down 20 feet and then have it pool up on the mercy seat? It's possible, sure, but didn't it rain just as Christ died? Again, I find myself straining to believe it -- even though it's a touching and moving thought.
Third, a major find like the ark of the covenant would not go unnoticed by the secular Israeli government. I doubt if anyone, American or Israeli, could stumble upon the ark and keep it a secret from that government. Again, let's use logic. There is a rabbi who claims to know where the Ark is hidden IN THE TEMPLE MOUNT. That seems logical. But the government won't let anyone look for fear of upsetting the Palestinians. And would the government let the deaths of six people go un-investigated, as the report states: "Six Jews--possibly Levites--went into the grotto to recover the Ark, and all six died of massive brain hemorrhage. Ron Wyatt recovered their bodies for Israel." With no investigation? Does that smell like fish?...
I'm not a great student of the Bible, as yourself. But it just struck me as so peculiar that you would swallow this fish story so easily and post it on your Web page. It just felt wrong. Now the story is inspiring. It's uplifting (well, except the part about the brain hemorrhage, which I could do without). But it's a crock!
I feel there are many out there who want to lead the flock astray. It will be so simple to do. People are so very anxious about Christ's return and it's so easy to deceive even devout believers. I understand the sincerity with which they can believe these tales, but everyone needs to think for themselves and reason why something happens and not rush to judgement or trust someone who tells them what to believe. That's the basis for a cult.
Thank you for taking time from you very, very busy schedule to read my words. I'm open to whatever you think and also understand that I could be totally wrong here. These are just my opinions. Cheers!
My reply I'm collecting information and keeping an open mind. I don't think the placement of a church on any site is reason enough to accept that site as "the" correct one. I think there are 3.5 pints of blood. Both blood and water came out. It was dark, but I don't remember a mention of rain on Crucifixion Day. I agree with your "everyone needs to think for themselves and reason why something happens and not rush to judgement."...
> let's use logic. There is a rabbi who claims to know where the
> Ark is hidden IN THE TEMPLE MOUNT. That seems logical
What seems logical may or may not be true. We do know that there was an earthquake and the rocks rent. Scripture is true, and the Lord works in mysterious ways. In the face of inconclusive evidence, we need to keep an open mind on the matter.
Here is a copy of another email and my answer Re: Ron Wyatt. I have over 100 emails in my Inbox, so forgive me for taking the easy way out to answer you on this. I am working to capacity and just can't do any more.
(Note: Please forgive me If I can't find time to answer everyone. I try, but it is beginning to look impossible to get it all done.)
Incoming Email There are so many provacative things to contemplate. Certainly, one of your most recent postings, the "Miraculous Blood of Christ", is both exciting and thought provoking. Something does nag at me though, I wish that I knew a little more about who Ron Wyatt is. Perhaps you know who he is? You know, it seems like news such as this would spread like wild fire! I know that there are Palestinians that would be upset with the news, "The Jews will want to rebuild the Temple!!!" When the secular press gets the news, its hard to imagine what all will happen. I find it hard to take in the scale, the dimension, of the events that are about to be played out!
Like so many who have corresponded with you, I wait with great anticipation for that glorious event!!! Our questions will be answered shortly. Should the Lord decide to tarry, I hope that you will continue with your ministry! We know it's soon! We know his timing is perfect, too.
Thank you so much for your work. God Bless you, Marilyn!!!
My reply I do not know enough about Ron Wyatt at present to make a firm decision myself. I get email for and against. I need more information before I can make up my mind what I think about it. I'm collecting information and watching.
Here is a small excerpt from one email I received. "Jeremiah purchased the potter's field with 30 pieces of silver. The L-rd had instructed Jeremiah to have the remnant of faithful priests remove the furnishings of the temple and put them in a special chamber. The chamber was in Jeremiah's grotto or the potters field which he had been instructed to purchase and to seal the deed in an earthen vessel. In Ron Wyatt's discovery of the Ark of the Covenant in a cave beneath this potter's field he also found this earthen vessel with the deed regarding Jeremiah's purchase of the field and the writings of Jeremiah regarding why these furnishings were put in this chamber. This chamber or cave is a natural, non man made, chamber. The chamber in which the Ark of the Covenant was found was a chamber which was not made with hands."
Lyn Mize has visited Ron personally and is convinced that he is on the up and up. Here is a bit of what Lyn has said, "Ron did bring some things out of the Grotto that proved to the Israelis that the Ark of the Covenant was in there, but I do not know what they were. Ron is very tight-lipped about details because of the attitude of the Israeli Government. They currently deny Ron Wyatt and they vehemently deny that the Ark has been found. This is understandable since the Ark is such an explosive issue. The fact that Christ's blood was spilled on the Mercy Seat makes it even more explosive. Many Jews have come to believe in Jesus as the Messiah because of this knowledge, but others deny it to the death. They also deny Jesus Christ as a fraud and a fake. Time is short. Keep watching."
Jerusalem's Joe Zias thinks Ron Wyatt's claims are absurd. Joe also says of Mt. Sinai, "Personally I believe that it is simply a literary invention which is why it will never be found." This man doesn't sound like he believes in Yeshua (Jesus) at all. If not, he is without the indwelling Holy Spirit and cannot understand things that people with the indwelling Holy Spirit can understand.
My God is in complete control. He has the foresight and the power to do exactly what Ron claims about the blood running down where the rocks rent and hitting the Ark of the Covenant. If it were true, I could understand the non-believing Israelites not wanting to announce it. Why? because they would then have to admit that Yeshua was their Mashiach (Messiah). Jeremiah was told to buy a field, and he is thought to be the one that hid the Ark of the Covenant. Whether Ron Wyatt has found it, I don't know, and am afraid that if true, it might not be meant to be revealed until after the Rapture. The Rapture seems like it could be the catalyst that causes the temple to be built. Right now, the Body of Christ is the temple of the Holy Spirit. When we are raised up, will the earthy temple begin to be raised up? Lot's of food for thought.
---end of my reply---
(Additional Note: In some other email sent me, there is one point that bothers me about the account of Ron Wyatt's discovery and makes me distrust it IF I understand this part correctly. Here in a cave filled with stones to within 18" of the ceiling is
"A STONE CASE
Crawling slowly and painfully over the rocks to the other end of the chamber, he saw a stone case extending through the rocks. It had a flat stone top which was cracked completely in two. The smaller section of the cover was moved aside, creating an opening into the stone case.
He could not look inside because the top was too close to the ceiling. Yet he knew what was inside. The cracked part of the lid where it was open, was directly below the crack in the ceiling. And the black substance had fallen from the crack into the case. He knew this, because some of it had splashed on to the lid.
THE MEANING OF IT
It was at this time that the pieces quickly came together. Instantly it dawned on Ron what had happened here. That crack they had found outside in the elevated cross-hole (now many feet above him) - here was the end of that crack, right here in this ceiling. And the black substance was blood which had fallen through the crack and on to the stone case.
Now he KNEW the Ark was in the stone case. But the most overwheliming realisation was that Jesus Christ's blood had actually fallen on to the Mercy Seat."
Here is what bothers me. How can the Mercy Seat be within 18" of the ceiling when the cherubim were made of one piece with the Mercy Seat?
Ex. 25:17-20 says, "And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof. And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings."
Ex. 37:7 says, "And he made two cherubims of gold, BEATEN OUT OF ONE PIECE made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat."
Tell me, how could the Mercy Seat be within 18" of the ceiling if, as Unger's Bible Dictionary says on p. 1077, "In the Holy of Holies was placed the ark, with its mercy seat, which was taken from the tabernacle."
And, I Kings 8:17 says, "THEN Solomon assembled the elders of Israel...that thy might bring up the ark of the covenant of the LORD out of the city of David, which is Zion....And the priests brought in the ark of the covenant of the LORD into his place, into the oracle of the house, to the most holy place, even under the wings of the cherubims. For the cherubims spread forth their two wings over the place of the ark, and the cherubims covered the ark and the staves thereof above.")
Does anyone have more information on this aspect?
His reply I appreciate your taking the time to write me back.
Regarding Ron Wyatt, I'm merely concerned with some questionable things he's said and the mention in the article that he was selling video tapes. I'm very sensative to people being taken (monitarily) in the name of Christ. I do not feel this is what you are doing and don't that I'm accusing you of profiting from others. I'm glad you wrote your books! And I only wish more people would buy them and read them. I have two, both of which I paid full retail for. As an author myself I understand the value of your work and that you should be compensated. But you offer information and research. You show your stuff! And as an author I understand your frustration when people urge you to give your books away. I'm sure if that guy were a plumber and you said, "Fix my toilet for free since you'll be raptured before I can pay the bill," he would think differently. In fact, that's not the kind of attitude that would rapture anyone, IMO.
So please, keep up the good work! I'm a supporter! And I value your time and appreciate the work you put into your Web page and all that you do. It really is a sacrifice. Cheers!
Incoming EmailI have had your site bookmarked for about six months now. In your reserch you stated that you are sure the rapture will happen in may of this year. The date is comming up pretty fast! Are you nervous? I am. I am afraid. We should be, but you know, every since I was a child I was convinced that I would be alive when Jesus came back for us.
I have always tryed to do my best in life, I am baptized and try to live for the Lord. Of corse I am like every other person, I fail sometimes. I am only human. I will be the first to admit, I havent read all of the bible or went to church every sunday. But I believe in the Lord and all he stands for. I love him so much. I owe him everything. And He doesnt owe me anything, but yet he gives me salvation. He forgives me my sins everyday. How could he? He loves me.
Sorry to ramble, I know you have much to do with your time. I am a mother of two small children and am not working right now. So I have alot on my mind and looked to the computer about my problems and found your site. I loved it. It gave me so much hope! You more than likely have gotten hundreds of letters just like mine. So I wont waste your time. I must say that I am afraid that if May goes by and it doesnt happen, a lot of people will loose hope and faith. One reason I wanted to write to you is to ask you what you will do if it doesnt? Will you please write back to me... I feel like I am surrounded by people who dont understand what you and I believe in. It is nice to hear from ones that are aparently touched by the Lord. I will keep reading all you have to say, because in my opinion you are blessed. I have shared the message. Please help me. I am just reaching out to feel some of what you feel. Life is so hard. For others worse than me I am sure, just look at the poor countries and the wars and the people who abuse children. Makes you wonder why God has let it go on for so long. But he has his plans. He is the smartest being alive so I wil trust in him.
Well I will stop. Thank you for being brave. Thank you for staying with what you believe in. Hope we see eachother in Heaven. I will do all I can to be there!!!!
Incoming Email I've been to Ron Wyatt's site. I remember reading that the blood only had 23 chromosomes. I made mention of this to many of my friends, and began a theological division. From what the author wrote, sin nature is attributed only to man, not the woman. I believe that Christ was born of the virgin Mary, but does that make Mary sin free? I think not. Christ was born sin free, by a sinner, with a sinful nature, but He did not act on that nature, because of the empowering of the Holy Spirit. The bible clearly states that Jesus was born fully man, and fully God. The truth is, we are all born sin free, but with a sinful nature, given to us through both of our parents, not just one. And since we are born apart from God, there is no restraint from sinning. A good question is why did God use a virgin? To fullfil His word? To prove His power over man? To demonstrate His authority over nature? I tend to believe it was to make a point, rather than for purification. The bible says we are all sinners, except Christ. It doesn't say, we are all sinners, except Christ and Mary. If you agree, I think a posted correction is in order. If you disagree, I'd be curious to hear why. So far, I've met no one who can disprove this with biblical scripture. Love your site.
My reply > sin nature is attributed only to man, not the woman.
I agree with this. Eve was deceived, but Adam sinned willfully. Sin came into the world through one man, Adam.
Romans 5:12 says, "BY ONE MAN sin entered into the world." It does not say by one man and by one woman. Woman is excluded. Sin and death entered into the world by Adam.
Romans 5:17-19 says, "by ONE MAN'S OFFENCE death reigned by ONE...For as by ONE MAN'S disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."
> Christ was born of the virgin Mary, but does that make Mary sin free?
No. Mary had a human father. She was not sin free.
> Christ was born sin free, by a sinner, with a sinful nature, but He did
> not act on that nature
Jesus had no sin nature because God was his Father.
> a sinful nature, given to us through both of our parents, not just one.
The sin nature is inherited from just the father. If the sin nature had been passed down through the woman, Jesus would have inherited a sin nature through Mary. God used a virgin so that Jesus would not have a sin nature. Why else use a virgin and no human father?
> why did God use a virgin?
So Christ would not have a sin nature.
> The bible says we are all sinners, except Christ. It doesn't say, we are all
> sinners, except Christ and Mary.
Christ is the only one who did not sin. Mary sinned, but was unable to pass the sin nature on to her offspring. Only an earthly father can do that.
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