...Golan's release is unlikely to end the controversy.
His detention followed a report earlier this month by the IAA concluding that both the ossuary, and another controversial relic to which Golan has a middleman connection -- the so-called Yoash tablet, dating from the ninth century BC -- are frauds.
The IAA report was signed by 14 prominent Israeli academics. One has since defected, saying the oxygen isotope test on which the IAA based its conclusion was flawed. Even more problematically, Amos Bein, director of the Geological Survey of Israel, which conducted the test, is now saying he's agnostic on the question of the box's legitimacy....
Another very distinguished scholar, Israeli paleographer Ada Yardeni, has also cast a vote in favour of authenticity. The problem with trying to determine whether the ossuary is real or a fabrication is that for every analysis pointing in one direction, there are counter-indications and arguments. Neither geology nor epigraphy seems capable of providing a definitive answer....
(Part of the above article) "I do not know whether Oded Golan is a forger," said Hershel Shanks, editor of the Biblical Archaeology Review and a champion of the ossuary's legitimacy. "What I do know is that the police, pressured by the IAA, have been sweating him to confess.''
You believe in 2 Raptures, pre-trib and pre-wrath.
1.. as I understand you, pre-trib are believers caught up at the sound of the trumpet and being called to 'come up hither'. This will be at the beginning of the 7 years of tribulation.
2. pre-wrath are 'believers' who were left behind and tribulation saints.
a. at the pre-wrath rapture, is a trumpet sounded and they are called to 'come up hither?
b. is this pre-wrath rapture at the start of the Great Tribulation (3 1/2 years into the tribulation) BEFORE the antichrist requires all to take the mark of the beast?
c. if this IS before the antichrist requires the mark, what will these people be martyred for doing before the mark is implemented? NOT taking the mark will clearly identify them but if it is BEFORE the mark, what will they be martyred for?
d. what determines a 'believer' being left behind? is the blood of Jesus not enough to assure our eternal salvation and our everlasting life in heaven?
e. would you consider that being 'accounted worthy', mentioned in Luke 21:36, as being directed to the Jewish people for the Second Coming?
f. how can a truly born-again believer, covered by the blood of Jesus, be left behind for any part of the tribulation if God has promised us He will deliver us from the wrath to come and we can do NOTHING for ourselves?.....ie ....."it is finished".
tks Marilyn, God bless you and your family.
Yes, at or near the beginning of the Tribulation. That first "trump of God" is in I Thess. 4:16. > > 2. pre-wrath are 'believers' who were left behind and tribulation saints.
> > a. at the pre-wrath rapture, is a trumpet sounded and they are called to 'come up hither?
A trumpet sounds at the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52. The angels gather them from the Earth (Mark 13:27). Angels also gather the Bride from one end of heaven to the other to the general assembly of Heb. 12:23 (Mt. 24:31).
b. is this pre-wrath rapture at the start of the Great Tribulation (3 1/2 years into the tribulation) BEFORE the antichrist requires all to take the mark of the beast?
I think it is on the first day of the millennial reign of Christ. That way, every Tribulation will be caught up just before the wrath of God hits Earth at noon that day.
Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, BEFORE THE FIERCE ANGER OF THE LORD COME UPON YOU. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID (in Heaven) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast." The asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea.
> > c. if this IS before the antichrist requires the mark, what will these people be martyred for doing before the mark is implemented? NOT taking the mark will clearly identify them but if it is BEFORE the mark, what will they be martyred for?
During the Tribulation, people can be killed because they believe in Yeshua ha Mashiach, the Lord Jesus Christ. The 2nd Rapture is at the end of the shortened Tribulation.
> > d. what determines a 'believer' being left behind? is the blood of Jesus not enough to assure our eternal salvation and our everlasting life in heaven?
As I understand it, if a believer is not wearing white raiment (like the Laodiceans of Rev. 3:16), or if a foolish virgin doesn't have enough oil of the Holy Spirit (Mt. 25:1f), they will be left behind the first time, but not the second time.
> > e. would you consider that being 'accounted worthy', mentioned in Luke 21:36, as being directed to the Jewish people for the Second Coming?
No. It is for the wise Philadelphian virgins that will be caught up in the first Rapture. They are accounted worthy to ESCAPE the Tribulation.
> > f. how can a truly born-again believer, covered by the blood of Jesus, be left behind for any part of the tribulation if God has promised us He will deliver us from the wrath to come and we can do NOTHING for ourselves?.....ie ....."it is finished".
Both Raptures take place before the wrath of God hits Earth at noon on the first day of the millennial kingdom of Christ. For what will happen that day, read Rev. 11:15-19. As the believers in Heaven are receiving their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ, the unbelievers on Earth are receiving their just rewards for their unbelief. Agape
The first month is the Jewish month of Nisan which falls during our months of March and April. In whatever year the Rapture occurs the "Bride of Christ" or the "Firstfruits" will be taken on the 10th of Nisan. The "Harvest Rapture" takes place 1260 days or 3 1/2 years later on the Day of Trumpets, a fulfillment of 1 Thess. 4:16-17.
the more things brought to our attion the better--keep up the good work
It is a pretty good picture. Crossing over Jordan suggests dying, but in this case, they didn't touch the water. Gilgal means a circle. It can suggest Heaven, Saturn. Jericho means the moon or his month. That could easily be Nisan, the first month in the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. I think the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1.
Nisan 10 is when they selected the passover lambs, then kept them up until Passover. It was the day Jesus cursed the fig tree (symbol of Israel) and purified the temple. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, so that could apply to us. The parable of the barren fig tree in Mark 13:6-9 fits Israel. When the Rapture takes place, The Tribulation will start for Israel.
If Song of Solomon 2:10-14 applies to the Rapture, the date would be too early. It rains in Nisan and the grapes do not come on until June. We should know soon. Agape
"Because the Lord himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice, and with God's trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first. Then we who remain alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in Heaven. And so we will always be with the Lord."
I believe the KJV reads, "....then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord...."
Both translations seem to imply a space of time between the dead in Christ rising and then the Bride of Christ rising. I have always heard that the rapture would be instantaneous - in the twinkling of an eye. If both groups were translated simultaneously, there wouldn't be time for anyone to die or for "those who are alive and REMAIN".....
How do you reconcile this scripture? If there is a gap between the two different ranks being caught up, then the dead in Christ rising would be the very obvious sign that the rapture was imminent thereby fulfilling the "midnight cry" which causes the foolish virgins to run to the wise virgins to seek more oil. Everyone seems to wonder if there will be a sign. I believe that if there is a sign, it won't be something we have to wonder about. The parable of the wise and foolish virgins indicates that the sign will be so obvious to the whole world that it will cause the sleeping Laodicean church to instantly wake up. What do you think? Thanks for your input.
Psa. 40:1-3 is interesting. It says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (out of Earth, as Jeremiah was brought up out of the miry pit), and set my feet upon a rock (the planet Heaven), and established my goings (at the Rapture). And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God (the saints sing the new song after the Rapture in Rev. 5:9): many shall see it (the Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." There will be new converts right away. God never leaves himself without a witness. Agape
When the Day of wrath is complete there are to be very few people left. How do they hire men of continuing employment to clean up the land and get Jerusalem ready for the return of the Lord? If a child can count the remainder of mankind this seems like an impossible task for very few people.
I would think seven months would be very inadequate, seven years maybe. Also, if all believers are to escape in the pre-wrath rapture then all that are left are unbelievers. Would not the Lord judge them too??? Just a bit of confusion with the timeline verses the population.
They only bury in Israel. Isa. 10:19 says, "the rest of the trees of his forest shall be few, that a child may write them." A child can write the number.
Zech. 13:8 says, "it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein." A third of the Israelis will be left.
About the rest of the people on Earth, Jer. 25:23 says, "the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground." Only Israel buries the dead to cleanse the land for the return of Christ. Agape
I have copies of the books if you need them. Heaven Found: A Butter and Honey Star is $5.50. Revelations 2000 is $6.99. Priority postage for 1 to 3 books is $3.95.
A post Trib Rapture won't work. That would put the saints through God's Wrath. Mid-Trib has a chance, because Moses and Elijah hear the "Come up hither." It doesn't mention anyone else at that time though.
Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath work. The saints out of all nations in Rev. 5:9 get to Heaven before Christ is given the 7-sealed Title Deed to the Earth (Rev. 4 and 5). The Tribulation saints get to Heaven (Rev. 7:14) on the Day of God's Wrath, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth at noon.
Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; SEEK RIGHTEOUSNESS, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be HID (caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."
The Day of God's Wrath is the first day of the millennial Kingdom of Christ. The first thing on the agenda in Heaven that day is Jesus' coronation. The Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ are also that day. The saints in Heaven receive their rewards for their belief at the same time those unbelievers left on Earth receive their just rewards for their unbelief (Rev. 11:15-19).
On that day, the saints that were caught up to Heaven before the Tribulation are called to the general assembly in Heaven (Mt. 24:31). The Tribulation saints are called up from Earth at the same time (Mark 13:27).
Mt. 24:31 says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."
Mark 13:27 says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."
To be part of the Bride group caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, we should use I John 1:9--confess all sins committed since we accepted Christ to bring all sins under the blood of Christ. Then we are wise Philadelphian virgins wearing white robes.
The foolish Laodicean virgins (Mt. 25:1f) have yet to wash their robes in the blood of Christ (Rev. 7:14), so they are left behind the first time, but not the last time.
Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." To escape all the Tribulation, we must be accounted worthy. We must be wise Philadelphian virgins (Rev. 3-13; Mt. 24:1f).
The foolish Laodicean virgins (Rev. 3:14f) are cut off. Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." In the parable of the wedding feast in Mt. 22:1-14, a man without a white wedding garment is cast out. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Rev. 17 is written as if the Pre-Trib Rapture has just taken place. The 10 kings have received no kingdom as yet. Verse 14 says, "they that are with him (Christ) are called, and chosen, and faithful." Agape
This article is from the Feast Days of the Messiah. I am copying it word for word because it is a confirmation and gives meaning to a statement made by Jesus. [Yeshua]
Yom HaKeseh:The Hidden Day
In Psalm (Tehillim) 27:5 it is written, "For in the time of trouble He shall hide me in His pavilion; in the secret of His tabernacle shall He hide me; He shall set me upon a rock."
Yet another name for ROSH HASHANAH is YOM HAKESEH, "The Day of the Hiding" or "the Hidden Day." The term keseh or keceh is derived from the Hebrew root kacah, which means to "conceal, cover, or hide." Every day during the month of Elul,a trumpet is blown to warn the people to turn back to G-d, except for the thirtieth day of Elul, the day preceding ROSH HASHANAH. On that day the trumpet is not blown, and is therefore silent. This is because much about ROSH HASHANAH is concealed and shrouded in mystery.The mystical aspect of ROSH HASHANAH is indicated in Scripture: "Sound the shofar on the New Moon, in concealment of the day of our festival".Psalm [Tehillim] 81:3. Satan, the accuser, is not to be given notice about the arrival of ROSH HASHANAH, the Day of Judgement.
ROSH HASHANAH is called YOM HAKESEH, or the Day of Hiding, because it nwas hidden from satan (Ha satan), the adversary.The Bible says that satan comes to rob and to steal (John [Yochanan] 10:10, and to confuse (1 Corinthians 14:33) Because it is the Day of Judgement, it is symbolically hidden from satan (satan did not know and understand the plan of the cross [tree], 1st Corinthians 2:7-8) This was hidden from him as well. Believers never said when the day of ROSH HASHANAH was; they simply said, Of that day and hour no one knows, only the Father."
One of the reasons most often given to disclaim that the resurrection of the dead and the catching away of the believers is on ROSH HASHANAH is the statement given by Yeshua in Matthew (Mattityahu) 24:36,as it is written, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Because ROSH HASHANAH was understood to be the hidden day, this statement by Yeshua is actually an idiom for ROSH HASHANAH. Thus it should be given as proof that He was speaking of ROSH HASHANAH because ROSH HASHANAH is the only day in the whole year that was referred to as the hidden day or the day that no man knew.
Spiritual Application (Halacha). ROSH HASHANAH takes place on the new moon. Colossians 2:16-17 says that the new moon will teach about the Messiah. The Jewish (biblical) month is based upon a lunar cycle.The moon can barely be seen as the cycle begins. But then the moon turns toward the sun and begins to reflect the light of the sun. The sun in the sky is a picture of Yeshua (Malachi [Malachie] 4:2),and the moon is a picture of the believers in the Messiah. The sun has its own light, but the moon`s light is a reflection of the sun. When we first become believers in Yeshua, we can hardly be seen spiritually, and we know very little about G-d. But then our lives begin to revolve around the Messiah as the moon revolves around the sun. As we begin to turn more and more toward the center of creation, we begin to reflect that light (Yeshua) more and more, just as the moon reflects the light from the center of the solar system.
This article, I believe brings out the truth of when the rapture will take place and it confirms that fact. Blessings in His Holy Name...ysiC
Here we can see that the Pre-Wrath Rapture will be on the Day of God's Wrath. I think the rock the Pre-Trib saints and the Pre-Wrath saints will be set upon is the planet Saturn.
To me, "the secret of His tabernacle" is that the Holy Place, made up of two cubes, represented two spheres in the heavens and the cubed Holy of Holies represented another sphere, Heaven. The "length and the breadth and the height of it are equal," (Rev. 21:16). The "vail" at the door of the Holy of Holies was torn when Christ was crucified and became our way through the vail into the Holy of Holies, which represented Heaven.
Remember that Paul was caught up to Paradise in the "third heaven" in II Cor. 12:2. In order, as one would walk into the tabernacle, the first heaven would be Mars, the second Jupiter, and the third Saturn.
According to the Pharisee priest Josephus, the candlestick in the temple represented (1) the Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn (the last naked-eye planet).
In Ant. III. VII. 7, Josephus said, "...the shaft elevated itself on high from a single base, and spread itself into as many branches as there are planets (i.e., that could be seen with the naked eye), including the sun among them. It terminated in seven heads, in one row, all standing parallel to one another: and these branches carried seven lamps, one by one, in imitation of the number of the planets."
In Wars V. V. 5, Josephus said, "Now the seven lamps signified the seven planets; for so many there were springing out of the candlestick. Now, the twelve loaves that were upon the table signified the circle of the zodiac and the year." This must be why archaeologists found a synagogue with a floor depicting the zodiac. Prov. 28:12,13 (KJV) says, "When righteous men do rejoice, there is great glory: but WHEN THE WICKED RISE (the Beast rises at the beginning of the Tribulation, Rev. 6:1,2), A MAN IS HIDDEN. He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso CONFESSETH and FORSAKETH them shall have mercy."
This being "HIDDEN" seems to refer to the Pre-Trib Rapture. The Pre-Wrath Rapture seems to be referred to about the same way in Zeph. 2.
Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation (Israel) not desired; Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID (cathar, be absent) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! (the Cretans, a name applied to the Philistines as sprung from Crete) the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant." This destruction is from the burning mountain-sized asteroid impacting the Mediterranean Sea (Rev. 8:8). I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place in the preceding night or morning.
Dan. 12:1-3 also tells about the Pre-Wrath Rapture in the "time of trouble". It says, "at that time (when the False Prophet 'shall come to his end," Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time (i.e., it is the Day of God's Wrath): and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE (including the 144,000 Israelites of Rev. 7) SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERY ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."
> > The mystical aspect of ROSH HASHANAH is indicated in Scripture: "Sound the shofar on the New Moon, IN CONCEALMENT of the day of our festival".Psalm [Tehillim] 81:3. Satan, the accuser, is not to be given notice about the arrival of ROSH HASHANAH, the Day of Judgement.
I am wondering if "IN CONCEALMENT" belongs in there. I wish I knew what version of Scripture they quoted.
Here is Psa. 81:3,4 (KJV). It does not say "IN CONCEALMENT." It says, "Blow up the trumpet in the NEW MOON (chodesh, new moon, i.e., Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets), in the time appointed (kece, fullness or the FULL MOON, i.e., its festival time appointed), on our solemn feast (chag, [solemn] feast) day (Tishri 15, Feast of Tabernacles). For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob."
Psa. 81:4,5 (Tanach, Stone Edition) says, "Blow the shofar at the moon's renewal (Feast of Trumpets), at the time appointed for our festive day. Because it is a decree for Israel, a JUDGMENT [DAY] for the God of Jacob."
Psa. 81:4,5 in the Complete Jewish Bible says, "Sound the shofar at Rosh-Hodesh (Feast of Trumpets) and at full moon for the pilgrim feast (Feast of Tabernacles), because this is a law for Israel."
Psa. 81:3 in Green's Interlinear says, "Blow the trumpet in the NEW MOON (Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets),at the FULL MOON (Tishri 15, Feast of Tabernacles), on our solemn feast day." Psa. 81:3 (LITV) says, "Blow the ram's horn in the NEW MOON (Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets), at the FULL MOON (Tishri 15, Feast of Tabernacles), on our feast day.
> > Believers never said when the day of ROSH HASHANAH was; they simply said, Of that day and hour no one knows, only the Father."
I wonder if this is so.
> > "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Because ROSH HASHANAH was understood to be the hidden day, this statement by Yeshua is actually an idiom for ROSH HASHANAH. Thus it should be given as proof that He was speaking of ROSH HASHANAH because ROSH HASHANAH is the only day in the whole year that was referred to as the hidden day or the day that no man knew.
I need some proof.
> > This article, I believe brings out the truth of when the rapture will take place and it confirms that fact. Blessings in His Holy Name...ysiC It may be, but I'm not convinced by the information given here.
Ex. 19:13 says, "when the TRUMPET soundeth long, they shall COME UP to the mount." Mt. Sinai represented Heaven. The pavement of sapphire was a good clue, for sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, heaven, and priya, dear. This was on Pentecost, and it was the first trumpet of the Bible. Maybe Pentecost will still turn out to be the first trump of God (I Thess. 4:16), the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Next Pentecost will be May 26 and 27, 2004.
At the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:51,52), I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place on the Feast of Trumpets. The Jews say that the "first trump" is on Pentecost, the "last trump" on the Feast of Trumpets, and the "great trump" on the Day of Atonement. I think I saw this is on Eddie Chumney's site. Agape
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