Pro and Con 1048

Posted 8-19-03

Incoming email, Re: Vatican in God's plan

Pro/Con 1047 about the Vatican plan of being in charge of the temple mount and other religious areas, is exactly God's plan. The Vatican is a government unto its own, with its own ambassadors. It has more power/wealth than any other religion. It makes total sense that the Vatican would be in there pitching for a part of the control of Jerusalem. They are in Jerusalem, Bethlehem, other religious sites, have churches built over holy sites. They will not leave their properties and the temple mount completely up to others to divide.

The three main religions with POWER in the holy land are the Jewish religion (Jews), the Islamic religion (Arabs), and the Christian religion (Catholics). Of the three, the government of Catholics, the Vatican, has more wealth and power. The Jewish government is mainly secular, not very religious, doesn't represent orthodox Jews, therefore it can be swayed to forego Jewish religious principles in favor of "peace." Their main objective is to keep land for land's sake in order to keep and protect the Jewish state. They would rather have Vatican control over religious sites than have Arabs in control. Arab control means loss of security and war, which is historical truth, whereas the Vatican represents continued security, not war, as the Vatican does not wage war, has no army.

That is why the Jewish government is susceptible to the Vatican "solution". It represents a way out for them to have peace and keep the holy sites out of the hands of the Arabs. It makes total sense to them. They don't get/believe, don't read and understand, the book of Revelations or any other prophetic scriptures except those speaking of a coming Messiah, who, to them, hasn't come yet.

Why don't the Jews get with the program, see the end times coming, see giving authority to the Vatican opens the way for the coming antichrist/false prophet? When they rejected Jesus, they forfeited their right to spread the word of Jesus, and God used the believing remnant to form His church and bring in the Gentiles to spread the word. He blinded the Jews and closed their ears until He would, in the end times, bring back the Jewish remnant to take over the job again. Romans 11: 7-11: "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded. (According as it is written, 'God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.' And David saith, 'Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompense unto them; let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.' I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid; but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy."

Thus, what we have now, is the blinded/deaf Israeli government looking for a political solution, not a religious one. The Vatican gives them that political solution, one of peace through them, a non-warring group. They can't see or hear the truth of the most warring person ever known coming out of the Vatican. Even those in the Vatican reject the idea of a pope being an anti-christ. They don't sit around wondering who in their group will be the bad guy. These are religious men trying to keep their religious sites under their control and pick up Jerusalem, and/or the temple mount, if they can.

The Vatican will be used for God's purpose, just like He used the US to clear the way to Iraq and used Hitler to convince the Jews they must return to their homeland and establish the nation of Israel.

I say more power to the Vatican, the faster they accomplish their purpose, the closer we are to the rapture. Love

My reply

Thanks. You said it better than I could. May God bless you. Love

Moon Derives From Earth, Space Object, Study Says

By John Roach, 8-11-03
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/08/0811_030811_earthmoon.html

Science has a better understanding of how and when the moon came to be thanks to a team of German geochemists who compared ratios of trace elements in rocks from the Earth, the moon, Mars, and meteorites. Most astronomers subscribe to the so-called "cratering" theory to explain the moon's creation: Billions of years ago, a Mars-sized body slammed into Earth, projecting a mixture of rocky debris into space, some of which lumped together to form the moon. The remaining debris rained back down on Earth....

The rock comparison work of Carsten Münker, a geochemist at Germany's University of Münster, and his colleagues places the upper limit of impactor material at 65 percent.....

The research by Münker and colleagues appeared in the July 4 issue of Science...

The German geochemists' findings are based on an analysis of the ratio of the elements niobium to tantalum. ...

Both niobium and tantalum are nearly geochemical twins in magmatic systems like Earth's core, where the elements are barely separated from each other, said Münker. As such, scientists thought that Earth and moon shared the same niobium to tantalum ratio.

Recent studies have shown that niobium is attracted to iron at high pressures. Tantalum is not. When the Earth's iron core separated from our planet's rocky mantle, high pressure caused by Earth's gravity caused the two metals to separate, with the niobium going to the iron core.

Analysis of rock samples by scientists lead them to believe that the only instance when pressures would be large enough to force such a separation between the elements niobium and tantalum is at the time when the Earth formed. Other celestial bodies, such as the moon, Mars, and meteorites are too small to generate such high gravitational pressure.

"Since so far this is only known for Earth, both elements are a good tracer to estimate the fraction of terrestrial material in the moon," said Münker.

Analyzing Earth and moon rock samples, the German researcher team found that the moon's silicate mantle has a niobium to tantalum ratio of about 17, whereas the Earth's silicate mantle has a slightly lower ratio of 14. The researchers presume that much of the Earth's niobium is incorporated in its iron core, leaving less niobium in the mantle.

The silicate portions of Mars and other meteorites have a niobium to tantalum ratio of 20. Because the impactor is thought to have been Mars-sized (or about one-half the size of Earth), the scientists believe that the impactor also would have had a niobium to tantalum ratio of 20....

According to the researchers, the difference between the niobium to tantalum ratios of the Earth and moon are a result of the mixing of the Earth's mantle material with the impactor. Based on the ratios of niobium to tantalum in the two bodies, the researchers can estimate the percentage of impactor material in the moon.

According to their calculations, the amount of impactor material in the moon is 50 percent, plus or minus 15 percent. Hence, 65 percent becomes the upper limit of impactor material found in the moon today, Münker said.

Scientists can also draw conclusions about the time at which the moon formed, based on the known ratios of niobium and tantalum found on Earth that were determined at the time our planet's core and mantle separated.

The German researchers say the moon had formed by the time Earth's core and mantle separated, based on tantalum ratios in rock samples they studied.

According to radioisotope dating of moon rock samples, the lunar body's core and mantle separated by 4.53 billion years ago. That suggests the same figure serves as the moon's minimum age.

My outgoing e-mail

> > > Verse 24 says, "the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." It is a city inhabited by the Bridegroom and his Bride.

> > Very true: it is possible that the New Jerusalem and the saints within are all part of the Bride. However, that automatically precludes the Church from being the Bride, because ALL believers will inhabit the New Jerusalem. This means that Old Testament saints, church age believers, tribulation saints, and all others will be a part. The Church covers only believers from the time of Christ until the rapture. Rev. 21:27

Just because the Bride lives there doesn't mean that the great multitude of Tribulation saints of Rev. 7:9 can't live there also. Some of the Old Testament saints will be there too. Heb. 11 mentions Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sara. Then v. 15 says, "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out (Earth), they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, AN HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a CITY." That city is New Jerusalem.

> > > In Eph 5:22-38, Paul spoke of Christ and the church that is the Bride of Christ. He said, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, AS UNTO THE LORD. For the husband is the head of the wife, even AS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore AS THE CHURCH IS SUBJECT UNTO CHRIST, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, LOVE YOUR WIVES, EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT IT TO HIMSELF A GLORIOUS CHURCH, NOT HAVING SPOT, OR WRINKLE, OR ANY SUCH THING; BUT THAT IT SHOULD BE HOLY AND WITHOUT BLEMISH. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For WE ARE MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, OF HIS FLESH, AND OF HIS BONES (as the wife Eve was of the flesh and bone of Adam). For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH"

> > A good example of a verse that seems to support the Bride being the church; however there is again no reference to Christ's Bride. You will notice that what you have quoted includes the key verses speaking of how we are members of his body, etc. This is the defing point of the whole arugument. We are the Body of Christ, as is proven by many verses.

I think all believers are the Body of Christ, but only the wise Philadelphian virgins are the Bride of Christ. In Rev. 14:3-5, the 144,000, "they are virgins" and "they are without fault before the throne of God." They also sing the "new song" as the members of the first Rapture do (Rev. 5:9).

The "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" also stand before the throne of the Lamb in New Jerusalem, but they are not called virgins like the 144,000. They do not sing the new song, either. That song seems to be reserved for the Bride of Christ.

> > Col 1:18, 24

It says, he is the head of THE BODY, THE CHURCH: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.... Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for HIS BODY'S SAKE, WHICH IS THE CHURCH."

The church includes the Laodiceans. They are part of the Body of Christ, but I don't think they are part of the Bride of Christ. I think they are foolish Laodicean virgins that get left behind when the BRIDEGROOM comes for his Bride, the wise Philadelphian virgins.

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

In Mt. 22, the man without a wedding garment is cast outside the doors. Verse 14 explains, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

In Rev. 17:14, the Pre-Trib Rapture has just taken place, "and they that are with him (the King of kings) are CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." I think they are the wise virgins that went with the Bridegroom when he came for his Bride (Mt. 25:1f).

> > > Rom 7:4 says, "Wherefore, my brethren (BELIEVERS), ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; THAT YE SHOULD BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER, EVEN TO HIM WHO IS RAISED FROM THE DEAD" (i.e., believers will be married to Christ).

> > You skipped over the other part describing the "Body of Christ."

Where? Rom. 7:1-4 says, " Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. Wherefore, my BRETHREN, ye also are become dead to the law BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; THAT YE SHOULD BE MARRIED to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

The BRETHREN (i.e., believers), those that have become dead to the law by the Crucifixion and Resurrection of the body of Jesus Christ, SHOULD be the Bride of Christ, but they may not be. The foolish virgins SHOULD be the Bride of Christ, but they are NOT READY when he comes at the Pre-Trib Rapture. By the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, they will "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:9). All sins committed after one accepts Christ should be confessed to God to bring them under the blood of Christ. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness."

The Bride wears white, a symbol of righteousness. Rev. 19:7,8 says, "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his WIFE HATH MADE HERSELF READY. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and WHITE: for the fine linen is the RIGHTEOUSNESS (lit., righteousnesses, i.e., of Christ's righteousness imputed to us and of our righteous acts when we are filled with the Holy Spirit) of saints." We can't work for salvation, but we can work for rewards. One is the "crown" mentioned in Rev. 3:11.

In I Cor. 9:24-27, Paul said, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the PRIZE (to be part of the Bride group caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture)? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible CROWN; but we AN INCORRUPTIBLE. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a CASTAWAY."

In Phil. 3:14, Paul said, "I press toward the mark for the PRIZE of the high calling (i.e., the 'Come up hither' at the Rapture) of God in Christ Jesus."

Rev. 3:11 says, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy CROWN." This crown can be lost. Don't you think it might be the foolish virgins that will lose it? Agape

Incoming email, Re: Bride of Christ

Interesting thoughts: but I suggest you read Rev. 21 to see what the Bride really is (vs 2, 9-21.). It's the only place in scripture where the Bride of Christ is specifically mentioned. Regards:

My reply

Since the exact words "Bride of Christ" do not appear in the KJV, let's look at the NT verses that mention, or refer to, the bride.

CHRIST'S DISCIPLES ARE THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

PROOF: John 3:22,29 says, "After these things came Jesus and HIS DISCIPLES into the land of Judaea...(then John the Baptist said) He that hath the BRIDE (THE DISCIPLES) is the BRIDEGROOM (Christ): but the friend of the bridegroom (John the Baptist), which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled."

Rev 18:23 says, "the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee (Babylon); and the voice of the BRIDEGROOM (Christ) and of the BRIDE (Bride of Christ) shall be heard no more at all in thee (i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture has already taken place): for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."

The Bride of Christ that comes "out of great tribulation" (Rev. 7:14) in the Pre-Wrath Rapture is the 144,000-Israelite group. We see them before the throne in Heaven in Rev. 14:2-4.

How do we know they are part of the Bride group? They sing the NEW SONG like the Bride saints do after the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 5:9). The 144,000 "are virgins" and "without fault before the throne of God." No "man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed FROM THE EARTH" (14:3). I take it that none of the rest of the Tribulation saints belong in the Bride group.

Rev 21:2 says, "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared AS A BRIDE adorned for her husband (Christ)." The words "like" and "as" are symbolic language. What is the symbolism here? Just as a king represents a kingdom, and as Christ said he is the bright and morning star because he resides in Heaven, the bright and morning star of Rev. 2:28, New Jerusalem is "as a bride."

Verse 9 says, "there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE." At that time, the Pre-Wrath Rapture has already taken place. The entire Body of Christ is in the heavenly New Jerusalem.

The saints have their Representatives, the 24 elders, in Heaven. Their names are on the walls and gates. The 24 elders are the 12 apostles and the 12 patriarchs of Israel.

Verse 24 says, "the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it." It is a city inhabited by the Bridegroom and his Bride.

Rev 22:17 says, "the Spirit and the BRIDE say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely."

In Eph 5:22-38, Paul spoke of Christ and the church that is the Bride of Christ. He said, "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, AS UNTO THE LORD. For the husband is the head of the wife, even AS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore AS THE CHURCH IS SUBJECT UNTO CHRIST, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, LOVE YOUR WIVES, EVEN AS CHRIST ALSO LOVED THE CHURCH, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, THAT HE MIGHT PRESENT IT TO HIMSELF A GLORIOUS CHURCH, NOT HAVING SPOT, OR WRINKLE, OR ANY SUCH THING; BUT THAT IT SHOULD BE HOLY AND WITHOUT BLEMISH. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For WE ARE MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, OF HIS FLESH, AND OF HIS BONES (as the wife Eve was of the flesh and bone of Adam). For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I SPEAK CONCERNING CHRIST AND THE CHURCH" Rom 7:4 says, "Wherefore, my brethren (BELIEVERS), ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; THAT YE SHOULD BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER, EVEN TO HIM WHO IS RAISED FROM THE DEAD" (i.e., believers will be married to Christ).

Mt 9:14,15 says, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but THY DISCIPLES fast not? And Jesus said unto them, Can the CHILDREN OF THE BRIDECHAMBER (i.e., the disciples, the Bride of Christ) mourn, as long as the bridegroom (Christ) is with them?"

In 2Co 11:2, Paul said, "I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I HAVE ESPOUSED YOU TO ONE HUSBAND, THAT I MAY PRESENT YOU AS A CHASTE VIRGIN TO CHRIST." A chaste virgin is a wise virgin that goes with the Bridegroom when he comes for his Bride. The foolish virgins without brightly burning lamps will be left behind, like the Laodiceans that do not have on white garments (symbols of righteousness) (Mt. 25:1f).

Mat 22:2,3 says, "The KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is like unto a certain king, which made A MARRIAGE FOR HIS SON, And sent forth his servants to call THEM (the Bride group)that were bidden to THE WEDDING." The man without a wedding garment (white) is cast out. Agape

Incoming email, Re: 1930 Moslem Council: Jewish Temple Mount ties 'beyond dispute'

From: Jim Bramlett, 8-12-03

Islamists and Palestinians lie so brazenly and totally without conscience that they are now even denying that the Jewish temple ever existed on what is now the Dome of the Rock. Some of them make Iraqi propagandist "Baghdad Bob" seem like an amateur and purveyor of truth by comparison.

Not that we need more proof, which is ample in the Bible, but the below, forwarded to me by ministry friend Christine Darg, founder and president of Exploits ministry, should set the record straight.
---
1930 Moslem Council: Jewish Temple Mount ties 'beyond dispute'
By Etgar Lefkovits - Jerusalem Post 1-26-01

JERUSALEM (January 26) - Although Islamic Wakf officials are currently denying any Jewish connection to the Temple Mount, a 1930 booklet about the site published by the supreme Moslem body in Jerusalem during the British Mandate states categorically that the site's identification with the First Temple is "beyond dispute."

Published by the Supreme Moslem Council, the nine-page English-language tourist guide, entitled A Brief Guide to al-Haram al-Sharif, a copy of which was obtained by The Jerusalem Post, states: "The site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest times. Its identity with the site of Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to universal belief, on which David built there an altar unto the Lord, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings." A footnote refers the reader to 2 Samuel 26:25.

The Supreme Moslem Council "was the supreme Moslem body appointed by the British Government during the Mandate period to administer the Moslem affairs in Palestine which included Wakf affairs," said Dr. Eli Reches, an Arab affairs expert at Tel Aviv University.

The booklet focuses on the Moslem connection to the site, with the authors stating clearly: "... for the purposes of this Guide, which confines itself to the Moslem period, the starting point is the year 637 A.D."

But Judaism's unequivocal connection to the Temple Mount comes up again on the last page of the booklet, which discusses the "substructures" of the Dome of the Rock.

Describing the area of Solomon's Stables, which Islamic Wakf officials converted into a new mosque in 1996, the guide states: "...little is known for certain about the early history of the chamber itself. It dates probably as far back as the construction of Solomon's Temple... According to Josephus, it was in existence and was used as a place of refuge by the Jews at the time of the conquest of Jerusalem by Titus in the year 70 A.D."

The guide mentions in passing Christianity's connection to Solomon's Stables. "We also know that this space was used by the Knights Templar as stables and the holes to which they tethered their horses can still be seen in the masonry of the piers... The contrast between lower and upper courses of the larger piers would tend to show that they belong to two distinct periods, and that the upper parts and the vaults of Arab construction [are] superimposed upon ancient foundations."

The guide also refers to Christianity's link to a small chamber in the vast subterranean structure, "which was believed in medieval times to have been associated with Jesus Christ's infancy, a belief that was prevalent long before the advent of the Crusaders, and was subsequently accepted by them."

Published by the Moslem Orphanage Press as a visitor's guide to the site and priced at 200 mils, the booklet contains seven full-page photographs of the Dome of the Rock which the guide says were reproduced courtesy of the American Colony.

This week, Palestinian Authority Mufti Ikrima Sabri, interviewed by the German Die Welt said, "There is not [even] the smallest indication of the existence of a Jewish temple on this place in the past. In the whole city, there is not even a single stone indicating Jewish history."

Incoming email

Do you have any comments on the August 27th closeness of the planet Mars to the Earth? Since the last time it was this close was over 50,000 years ago, which predates Genesis 1:3 and following by over 42,000 years, it raises the question of whether this last event may pinpoint the actual battle with Lucifer which resulted in the Earth becoming tohu va bohu....

My reply

This startling blazing orange star can be seen around the world. Yes, Mars hasn't been this close in 50,000 years. It is a sign that all can see with the naked eye. Jesus said, "there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars....And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh" (Luke 21:25,28).

I think Lucifer's planet Rahab split and formed our Asteroid Belt. Mars was hit badly. One side is horribly scarred. Much of the water was driven off. Earth would have been hit too. It was waste and desolation in Gen. 1:2, as you indicated. Agape

Incoming email, Re: NY Babylon

From: Finland

A dark night in NY, and maybe a gloomy future too. You have the understanding that Babylon will one time be the place where one world gov. and UR will be situated.

If we add to that what David Wilkerson (Times Square Church NY) saw back in 1992, that there will be a time when NY City will more or less burn for 30 days, and will go bankcrupt. UN will move from NY to... ...yes, Babylon!

Recent events show how vulnerable modern Cities are. Let us be prepared for whatever happens...Agape

My reply

Whatever happens now, at the end, the cities of the nations will be ruined. The terrorists will deserve what they get. They will not be immune.

Mars is so astonishing right now. It just might be a sign. Agape

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