Pro and Con 105, Uploaded 5-24-98

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clay cantrell wrote: Hi Marilyn - greetings in Jesus.

there is no need to respond to this. you are super pressed for time and worn out, i'm sure.

i did not want the next week to go by without saying 'thank you' for the wonderful ministry you have, and the blessing you have been to me and to countless others. your spirit of tenacity mixed with agape love is wonderfully communicated in your books and online discussions. you material is creative, sound, uplifting, and challenging. your material is beyond your ability to write it. the Lord Jesus gets the Glory!

you books are more than just the rapture date, endtime calculations. if that's all that other readers are getting, they're missing a lot. i was really blessed and learned alot about a myriad of Bible topics, and really came out knowing and loving the Lord more for His miraculous, wonderful book - the Word of God. thanks for keeping the standard high!

I pray that the Lord returns for HIs Bride this Pentecost. a strong case is built for it; and not just with your material. but, should He NOT, we know He is close, even at the doors, and it won't be long!

in Jesus, may all the Blessings of God be yours!

oh yes, by the way:

gematria of Father = 489
gematria of Son = 888
gamtria of The Holy Spirit = 1080

489 x 888 x 1080 = 468970560

468970560 = 46897 + 0560 = 47457 = 474 + 57 = 531

468970560 = 468 + 970 + 560 = 1998

My reply

Thanks anyway. See you in glory.

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From Abraham Forum: Doug Pickrel wrote:

> Marilyn: We are using different language here. My understanding of pre-wrath is
> prior to the tribulation

***From Marilyn: Yes, we need to clarify our different language. To me, the Pre-Trib Rapture is before the Seventieth Week of Daniel (the Tribulation). The Pre-Wrath Rapture is on the Rosh HaShannah that begins the millennial Day of the Lord. That is the Day of God's Wrath, but the Tribulation saints are caught up before the "mountain" and "star" (asteroid pieces) impact at noon. They are caught up between the opening of the sixth and seventh seals.

> that is to come and then come the great
> tribulation, each about three and a half years.

***I agree, if I understand you right. The Tribulation is divided into 3 1/2 years and 3 1/2 years. The latter is called the Great Tribulation.

> Those that are His will be raptured prior to the tribulation (beginning of
> Jacob's trouble),

***I agree with the first part, but the time of Jacob's trouble is one day, the Day of God's Wrath. It is the 2300th day of the Seventieth Week of Daniel, "A time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" (Dan. 12:1).

This 2300 days of Daniel 8:14 includes the time that they can sacrifice plus the time that they can't. (1260 + 1040 = 2300) The 2300 days are an exact count of the literal 24-hour days, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, from the Feast of Weeks that begins the Seventieth Week of Daniel to the Rosh HaShannah that begins the millennial Day of the Lord.

That Rosh HaShannah, Feast of Trumpets, is a day like no other day--ever. Christ receives his golden crown in Heaven that day. The Marriage of the Lamb follows. Then the Judgment Seat of Christ takes place. Those believers in Heaven receive their rewards for their belief at the same time the unbelievers on Earth receive their just rewards for their unbelief. It is the Day of God's Wrath on Earth. Only with our eyes will we see it. (It will probably look much like what happened when the comet pieces hit Jupiter. There will be two major impacts.) Finally, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb takes place in Heaven.

> and then the 144,000 are sealed so that no harm comes to them. Midway, just before
> the beast ascends from the abyss, the 144,000 will be found standing on
> Mount Zion with the Lord.

***They get there before the throne of God in Rev. 7:14,15. That is between the opening of the sixth seal in Rev. 6:12 (when the "stars of heaven" begin to fall like figs on "the great day of his wrath," Rev. 6:17) and the opening of the seventh seal in Rev. 8:1 (when the "great mountain burning with fire" and "great star from heaven, burning" fall, Rev. 8:8,10).

> Scripture teaches us that where ever the Lord is
> there is Mount Zion, clearly, the Lord does not descend midway, therefore
> the must be a rapture midway, and the 144,000 are part of the first fruits.

***The Mid-Trib Rapture is for the two witnesses only.

***Those caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture are "the FIRST of the firstfruits of thy land" to be brought into the house of the LORD thy God. THEY ARE CAUGHT UP ON PENTECOST before the Tribulation. (Ex. 23:19). Those caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture are the rest of the firstfruits. THEY ARE CAUGHT UP ON ROSH HASHANNAH on the 2300th day of the Tribulation. Re: the caps. I didn't mean to do the first group, but after that happened, I made the last group match.

> >I think that the Mid-Trib Rapturee is only of the two witnesses and that
> >the 144,000 are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture at the end of the
> >2300-day shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:14).

***Sorry, I didn't realize that I was really just restating what I had already said.

> Here you speak of the times shortened during the tribulation and that is
> true. God has given us insight into the shortened days: the sun will be
> shortened by four hours and the night by four hours which will reduce the
> day from a twenty-four day to a sixteen hour day. That means there will
> still be the same number of days per year for seven years, only the days
> will be shortened.

***I think they are all 24-hour days. I have charted them all out and the actual count on the Jewish calendar matches Scripture exactly.

> Our day of twenty-four hours for seven years would equal 60,480 total
> hours, whereas their sixteen hour days that will be for seven years would
> equal 55,200 total hours, so the seven years would be shortened by 5,280
> hours only. By our standard of measurement their seven years would be
> equivalent to our six years, four months, and twenty days. By reducing the
> hours per day God has still kept the prophecy in tack of years years.

> Daniel makes a clear statement (12:11) that means from the time the man of
> sin breaks his contract with Israel and abolished the regular sacrifice,
> three years and seven months later he will stand in the holy place, then
> Christ will return.

***Dan. 12:11 is not that clear. It says, "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up (Mid-Tribulation), there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." It does not tell us what the extra 30 days past the latter 1260 days of the Seventieth Week of Daniel are for.

***I think they are days of mourning for they follow the Judgment of the Nations. At that time, dominion is taken away from Satan after the last day of his rule, the latter 1260th day (which is the 2520th day of the Seventieth Week of Daniel. Rev. 12:6,14 says, "the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days....And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (3 1/2 years), from THE FACE OF THE SERPENT."

***Daniel 9:27 says, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (7 years or 2520 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION (the 2520th day), and that determined (judgment) shall be poured upon the desolate (desolator)."

***Christ has already arrived by this time. He comes on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year (Ezek. 19:17,21), exactly seven months (Ezek. 39:12) after the catastrophe on the 2300th day of the Tribulation. (5768 is a leap year, therefore there are seven months from Tishri 1 to Nisan 1.) He has to be here to sit as judge at the Judgment of the Nations.

> Remember, these are sixteen hour days not twenty-four.
> Israel will enjoy peace for the first three years, three months, and
> fifteen day, then persecution begins and forty-five days later the regular
> sacrifice will be abolished.

***There are 1260 days for the two witnesses to prophesy during the first half of the 2520-day Tribulation (Rev. 11:3). Then the sacrifice will be abolished on the very day that Satan is cast out of heaven. He enters into the False Prophet and sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4). He kills the two witnesses because they will not acknowledge that he is God. Three and one half days later (not on the 1260th day), they are resurrected and ascend up to Heaven (Rev. 11:11,12).

> Somewhere within that forty-five days the
> 144,000 will be raptured and the beast will come up out of the abyss, then
> the two witnesses will be killed, resurrected, and raptured. I personally
> believe it is the beast that end the sacrifice and that the 144,000 rapture
> to protect them from him (the evil one).
> Jacob's troubles (tribulation) begins with a seven year convenant which is
> entered into with a man (first beast) who comes up out of the sea (people),
> either by dictatorship or as an elected official,

***I won't be at all surprised if he turns out to the the Tribulation Pope elected Secretary General of the United Nations. Rev. 13:7,8 says, "and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life." Isa 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail."

> three and a half years
> later the second beast (Satan's son of perdition) comes up out of the
> earth. He has power to give life and to seal his people with the mark,
> 666, this begins the great tribulation. No one who belongs to Christ
> (Messiah) will experience the seven year period.

***A "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God" (Rev. 7:9,14,15).

> None of the 144,000
> messengers of God will experience the seven years of tribulation, they're
> protected during the first half, and raptured to Mount Zion when the 'son
> of perdition' appears midway.

***The 144,000 are among the great multitude OF ALL NATIONS. That includes Israel.

> At the end of this seven years all nations will be judged at Jerusalem,
> some enter into the thousand years, and some to torment, the sheep and goat
> nations. This will end the first resurrection and a thousand years later
> the second resurrection, and final judgment.

> If you are Christ's then your judgment was at the cross, if you're not
> Christ's then your judgment will be at the second resurrect before the
> throne of God.

***Just a couple more things I might add to complete the picture, then I must get to sewing four sunbursts (fancy drapery for arched windows). The boiler for the steam iron is hot.

***Armageddon breaks out after the Judgment of the Nations (lasts 40 days and 40 nights), and the 1335 days of Dan. 12:12,13 is when Daniel literally stands in his lot in Israel.

> Doug.
> >When I first found out God's schedule of end-time events in 1968, I
> >thought the Translation of the Tribulation Saints was in the middle of
> >the Tribulation. It took a couple of years before I got that straight.
> >My mistake was mainly because of the chapter division at Dan. 12. I
> >started reading there about Michael standing up and equated it with Rev.
> >12, where Michael and his angels drive Satan and his angels out of
> >Heaven down to Earth in the middle of the Tribulation.
> >
> >Later, I read Dan. 11 WITH Dan. 12 and finally saw the light. Dan. 11:40
> >speaks of the "time of the end." That suggests the end of the shortened
> >Tribulation. Then Dan. 11:45 says of the False Prophet, "he shall come
> >to his end, and none shall help him." That sounds like the end of the
> >shortened Tribulation also. The False Prophet comes to power in the
> >middle of the Tribulation, so it can't be at that time. Then Dan. 12
> >starts, "AND at that time (end of the shortened Tribulation) shall
> >Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of
> >thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE (day of Jacob's
> >TIME: and at that time (when there is such trouble as never was for the
> >nation until that very day) thy people shall be delivered, every one
> >that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in
> >the dust of the earth shall awake..."
> >
> >Then I realized that this "TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE
> >THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME" was the Day of God's Wrath.
> >Ezek. 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass AT THE SAME TIME when
> >Gog shall come against the land of Israel (the great time of trouble),
> >saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my
> >jealousy and in THE FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day
> >there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel (the "great
> >mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea," (the Mediterranean)
> >Rev. 8:8; Zeph. 2:4,5: "Gaza shall be forsaken," etc); So that the
> >fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the
> >field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the
> >men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence
> >(sight, as in Eze. 36:31; Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and the
> >mountains (the other asteroid is the "great star, 'aster,' from heaven,
> >burning as it were a lamp" of Rev. 8:10 that annihilates Babylon on the
> >Euphrates, Rev. 18:21) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall
> >fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."
> >
> >Rev. 6 starts out at the beginning of the Tribulation and ends when "THE
> >GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?" The
> >sixth seal was broken in Rev. 6:12. At that time, "lo, there was a great
> >earthquake," etc. Rocks began to fall as a fig tree casting her untimely
> >figs.
> >
> >Rev. 8 starts out with the seventh seal being broken and the seven
> >trumpet judgments starting to take place, including the mountain and
> >star hitting Earth.
> >
> >Guess what comes between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals
> >when the Day of God's Wrath has arrived? Rev. 7, the Translation of the
> >Tribulation Saints, all of them, the 144,000 plus "a great multitude,
> >which no man could number, of all nations (including Israel), and
> >kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Rev. 7:9). "These are they which
> >washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
> >Therefore are they before the throne of God" (Rev. 7:14,15).
> >
> >Shabbat Shalom,
> >Marilyn

> Doug.

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Doug Pickrel wrote:

> Thanks for your posting, Marilyn. I will certainly think about it.
> Doug.

***From Marilyn:
Doug, I appreciate your attitude. We don't all have to agree on but one thing, Yeshua. If we are right about Him, and wrong on everything else, we will still make it and have eternal life. However, to learn what God has told us in prophecy, we need to be open minded and consider everything in light of Scripture, comparing Scripture with Scripture for it is here a little and there a little so that the unbeliever will not understand and fall backward and be taken.

We are now in the 16th day of the countdown of the Omer. This may be the most important Pentecost since 30 AD, when the clock stopped for Israel as priests. It may start up again on Pentecost, the Lord picking up dealing with Israel as priests right where he left off. They are of age now, having already come 30 years since all of Jerusalem and the temple area belonged to them.

Here is something else to ponder. See if you think there is a correlation here. Yeshua was 33 1/2 years old in 30 AD. Israel took the temple area on June 7, 1967 (Iyar 28, 5727). 5727 + 33.5 = 5760.5. The half year already passed would put it past Sivan 6 in 5760 (Nisan, Iyar, Sivan, Tammuz, Ab, Elul). Therefore, the next Feast of Weeks in which the Seventieth Week of Daniel might start would be Sivan 6, 5761 (our May 28, 2001). I expect the covenant of Dan. 9:27 to be confirmed that very day and for Moses and Elijah to begin their 1260 days of prophesying that day. In other words, I think the Seventieth Week of Daniel (the Tribulation) will begin that day.

From that Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, exactly fits Dan. 8:14's 2300 days, which includes both the time the Jews can sacrifice and the time they cannot because the False Prophet desecrates the temple on the 1260th day. He kills Moses and Elijah because they will not acknowledge that he is God even though he sits "in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4).

For now, let's assume that that is the right day, because we do not have any other time left within the 40 years since Israel grew leaves (Sinai, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and West Bank) and fulfilled the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34 in 1967 that the count between these two feasts equals the necessary 2300 days.

Now take a look at the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9. To me those seem like Israel's grace years, when the Lord is looking for ripe figs on his fig tree to see if the Tribulation judgment could be left out, as Nineveh was spared when they repented after hearing Jonah's warning. It sounds like Israel's last chance to avoid the time of Jacob's trouble. If the Rapture happens on Pentecost this year, those four years would be exact, counted by inclusive reckoning, Pentecost to Pentecost, 5758, 5759, 5760, and 5761 (our 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001).

Therefore, I think the Rapture will take place this coming Pentecost and the Seventieth Week of Daniel will begin on the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001. I am counting down the Omer until Pentecost. Any way you figure it, we are approaching the end of this age and have a limited time to get right with God. "O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD" (Jer. 23:29).

Luke 21:24 says, "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." The times of the Gentiles were fulfilled in 1967. Just as Israel was given 40 years of probation from 30 AD to 70 AD before destruction, I think modern Israel was given 40 years of probation from 1967 before the day of Jacob's trouble will hit on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768), the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

Joel 2:1,2 says, "BLOW ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm (Gog's army is attacking) in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (united nations); there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it."

Shalom, Marilyn

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I gather you agree with Peter Hader's findings. Curious to know if you can substantiate Ron Wyatt's claims. Do you feel this is authentic...any possibility of a hoax? Sham for profit...sell books, cd roms etc?

Sure seems like interesting stuff to me!

My reply

Ron's are very interesting. However, I wonder how a mercy seat made in one piece with the two cherubim can be only 18" from the ceiling of the cave.

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I know you are terribly busy. Soon and very soon you will be in a glorified body that knows no aches, pains, or fatigue.

I just wanted to tell you that today I printed out nearly all of your site, (minus pros & cons) and I plan to have them laying on my dining room table along with other letters and the video "Left Behind" by the LaHaye brothers. I will have a sign saying "Have We Vanished? You'd better read these. Your life depends on it!" I know undoubtedly it will make a profound impression on whoever comes to my home looking for me and your information my be what saves their lives.

Thank you for your tireless work. Blessings to you and your family for their sacrifices as well.

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Here is my mother's reply to the parable of the Good Sam. as it deals with the subject of Prophecy.
The Good Samaritan

New American Standard - Luke 10

v30 - A certain man (Adam), was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho (called the bloody way) ; and he fell among robbers, and they stripped him (#1.robbed him - finances taken away) and beat him ( #2. physical harm - need for healing) and went off leaving him half- dead (spiritually dead) - " the three ways satan attacks us. v31 - And by chance a certain priest ( old testament laws) was going down on that road, and when he saw him he passed on the other side. v32 - And likewise a Levite ( ceremonial laws) also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the opposite side. v33 - But a certain Samaritan (Jesus), who was on a journey (not by chance), came upon him him, and when he saw him, he felt compassion, v34 - and came to him, and bandaged up his wounds (provided healing), pouring oil ( new birth) and wine (in-filling of the Spirit) on him; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn ( "the"church) and took care of him, v35 - and on the next day he took out two denarii ( one denarii = one day's wage - 1day = 1,000 years) and gave them to the inn-keeper (Holy Spirit) and said, " Take care of him; and whatever more youspend when I return, I will repay you."

Will Jesus come back in 2,000 years?

This was from notes I (Charlene S. Knowles) took from a preacher (Jan Butler) about 10 years ago. I am sorry I never got the tape. Certainly something to think about.

My reply

Sounds plausible. The 2000 years could count from when Jesus went to the temple when 12 years old. He was born in 5 BC and was 12 in 8 AD. (There is no zero year between BC 1 and 1 AD.) He will return 2000 years later at the Second Advent in 2008 AD.

Also, Jesus was symbolically annointed as Priest and King by the gifts the Wise Men brought him in BC 3. That was the beginning of the age of grace. There are 2000 years between that time and the Rapture in 1998.AD.

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From Abraham Forum:
Nancy wrote:
> Marilyn,
> In your last posting you say,"Remember that you Messianic Jews will not be
> here during those days if you have 'enough oil of the Holy Spirit' to be taken
> up in the pre-trib Rapture..............".
> Will you explain to me what you mean when you say, 'enough oil of the Holy
> Spirit'?
> I am not a Bible scholar and am asking simply because I do not understand -in
> specifics-'enough oil of the Holy Spirit. I have in my own understanding that
> the Blood of Yeshua is the necessary (oil). If this is correct, then how
> much is 'enough'?
> In His Love, Nancy

***From Marilyn: Oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. What we really have to have is enough of the Holy Spirit. The oil is used in the parable of the ten virgins in Mt. 25:1-13. All were virgins, meaning that they were all believers, but five were wise (like the Philadelphians) and five were foolish (like the Laodiceans). The wise took extra oil with their lamps. The foolish found that their lamps were going out (not extinguished, for we cannot lose the amount of the Holy Spirit that seals us until the day of redemption) because they did not take extra oil in their vessels (symbol of our bodies) with their lamps. When the Bridegroom (Yeshua) came, only the wise virgins with plenty of oil went with him. Like the Laodiceans that are spewed out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16), the foolish virgins are left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture. However, they will be taken up with the Tribulation saints just before God's Wrath hits earth on the 2300th day of the Tribulation.

I Thess. 5:19 says, "Quench not the Spirit." When we first accept Yeshua as our Messiah and Saviour, he baptizes us with his Holy Spirit. At that moment we are wise virgins. Every sin we ever committed up to that moment is stricken from the books. We get a fresh start. But, when we sin after that, we grieve the Holy Spirit, and the level goes down in us somewhat. Sin has caused a barrier between us and our Holy God. Thus, sin quenches the Spirit. To get back in fellowship with God, we have to use I John 1:9. If we confess our known sins, God is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (known and unknown sins). Then the level of the Holy Spirit rises in us and fills us again.

Water is also a symbol of the Holy Spirit, and it is as a fountain of living water rising up within us. We are told over and over to be filled with the Holy Spirit. In the day of the Rapture, we want to be ready, all known sins confessed and all wrongs done to us forgiven so that we can be forgiven for the wrong things we have done. We want our cup (vessel, body) to be full to the brim and running over.

The Laodiceans are not clothed in white raiment (Rev. 3:18), which is the righteousnesses of saints (Rev. 18:8). This included Yeshua's righteousness, which is imparted to us, plus our righteous acts done while we are filled with the Holy Spirit. (For these righteous acts we will receive rewards at the Judgment Seat of Yeshua.) However, by the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Laodiceans will have washed their robes in the blood of Yeshua (Rev. 7:14), i.e., confessed their sins so as to have them forgiven because the blood of Yeshua was the perfect sacrifice for sin. He took upon himself the sins of the whole world and paid the penalty, which is death. He took sin out of the way as an issue in Salvation. Now, it is what think ye of Yeshua.

All known sins must be confessed to bring them under the blood of Yesha. Then, in him, we are made whole and sinless. We are wise virgins, worthy to be chosen as the Bride of Yeshua. This is the great prize we can earn. We can't work for Salvation. It is a free gift, only having to be accepted. But we can work for rewards.

Another way of looking at it is this. One of the attributes of God is "agape" love. One verse says that God is love. If the Spirit of God is in us and abounds, we will be filled with his love. If not, we are "as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" (I Cor. 13:1). Verse 3 says, "And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (Old English for "agape," love), it profiteth me nothing." Verse 13 says, "And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity (God's love in us).

Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The Pre-Trib Rapture is something we need to be accounted worthy of. The main way to be worthy is to confess our sins and forgive others their sins against us. The other things are what Peter listed in II Peter 1, "that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature." That is what we want, the divine nature. I Peter 4:8 says, "And above all things have fervent charity ("agape," love) among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins."

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Updated 5-24-98