Pro and Con 1054

Posted 9-5-03

The astronomer's symbol of Saturn looks like a fancy "h" for heaven and even has the cross to show us how to get there

To me, it even suggests that Saturn is the crucified one's throne. I wonder if the Lord gave that sign to Adam and Seth when they drew the gospel story in the Zodiac. In Ant. I. II. 3, Josephus said, "They also were the inventors of that peculiar sort of wisdom which is concerned with the heavenly bodies, and their order." The chances are good that this sign came into being then by the inspiration of God.

In Rev. 2:28,29, Jesus says to the overcomers, "I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." What is he telling us?

Christ is the bright and morning star in Rev. 22:16, probably because his throne is on a morning star. These overcomers already have Christ in them. He said he would never leave us. What I think he means in Rev. 2:28 is that he will give the overcomers Heaven, literally a morning star at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Eph. 2:4-6 says, "God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

In the Gospel in the Stars, Gemini is where the Bride and Bridegroom "sit together in heavenly places" on the ecliptic. I think Gemini is the most likely sign of the Rapture. Since Saturn travels the ecliptic, the picture is a good one.

In early July, Saturn became a morning star. In August, it was a morning star in Gemini all month. It is still a morning star in Gemini this month of September, rising at 4:10 AM at the beginning, and at 2:00 AM by the end.

In October, Saturn will move into Orion as it visually executes a retrograde loop. By the 26th, Saturn will seem to have stopped moving. It will then return to Gemini.

Arriving back in Gemini in November, Saturn will become an evening star, rising in the early evening and remaining visible throughout the night. Still in Gemini, Saturn will be at opposition on December 31, 2003. It will transit the meridian at midnight.

By May 26 (Sivan 6, 5764), slow-moving Saturn will still be in Gemini.

Does anyone know the exact date in November that Saturn will become an evening star?

My PS, Re: more sky charts

I checked the sky on several dates. Here are some interesting ones.

BC 5, Sept. 8, birth of Jesus (2nd Adam born Friday, like 1st Adam's creation) - Saturn was entering Aries, the Ram, a perfect type of our Passover lamb. Left to right, there are Mars, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus.



AD 30, Apr. 6 (Thursday), Crucifixion - Saturn was in Gemini. Left to right are the Full Moon, Uranus, Saturn and Mercury.



AD 30, May 28 (Sivan 6, Sunday), Pentecost - Saturn in Gemini. Left to right are Uranus, Saturn, Sun, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter.

Her reply

Thank you, Marilyn
You brought tears to my eyes. What an awesome God!

U.S. to Ask for Wider U.N. Role in Iraq

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,96278,00.html

9-3-03 ..."It's indeed a historic moment," he told troops from all over the globe at an amphitheater near Babylon during the ceremony. "It's a moment where the international community has stepped up and turned a nine-nation coalition into a 30-nation coalition, which sends an unmistakable message."...

Incoming E-mail, Re: Muslim writer: Jerusalem not sacred

TROUBLE IN THE HOLY LAND
Official Egyptian weekly reinterprets Muhammad's 'Night Journey'
9-4-03
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34411

,,,Writing for the weekly Al-Qahira, published by the Egyptian Ministry of Culture, Ahmad Muhammad 'Arafa rejects the Islamic doctrine that the Prophet Muhammad's celebrated "Night Journey" took him from Mecca to Jerusalem.

The passage in Quran 17:1 – known as the Sura of the Night Journey – does not refer to a miraculous trip from Mecca to Jerusalem, but to the prophet's emigration from Mecca to Medina, Arafa asserts in his Aug. 5 article....

The text of the Quranic passage says, according to a translation, "Praise be to Him who took His servant by night from the Al-Haram [Sacred] Mosque [in Mecca] to the Al-Aqsa [literally 'the most distant'] Mosque, whose environs We did bless, so that We might show him some of Our signs, for He is the All-Hearing and All-Seeing One."

Arafa contends "Al-Aqsa" must refer to an existing mosque, not a place where a mosque would be established later. ...

The Al-Aqsa Mosque and the adjacent Muslim shrine known as the Dome of the Rock were built after Caliph Omar I captured Jerusalem from the Persians, six years after Muhammad's death in AD 632.

Incoming email, Re: John Paul II Entrusts Future of Europe to Mary, 8-31-03

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=40130

Religions Should Unite to Denounce Terrorism, Says Pope, 9-1-03

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=40193

...He said that it is essential "that the religions of the world join forces to denounce terrorism and to work together in the service of justice, peace and fraternity among men."...

Abraham's Covenant of Promise

By J. R. Church
http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/articledetail.asp?Article_ID=110

...Law of Moses never offered eternal life in the first place. Before Moses, there was a man named Abraham. Before there was a Mosaic Covenant, there was a covenant with Abraham that promised eternal life!

Don’t miss the importance of this. Our New Testament is founded upon the Abrahamic Covenant.....

Jesus is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant. The covenant made with David was an extension of the covenant made with Abraham.

Matthew’s genealogy of Christ begins with Abraham. He does not carry the genealogy back to Adam, as does Luke, because the subject of eternal life goes back to God’s covenant with Abraham....

Mosaic Law was introduced in Exodus — not Genesis.

Genesis introduces, not the Mosaic Covenant, but the Covenant of Abraham. And that is the covenant upon which even the Jews base their concept of eternal life.

When a Jew prays, he closes his prayer in the name of Abraham — not in the name of Moses (We close our prayers in the name of Jesus).

When a Jew died, he went to Abraham’s bosom — not Moses’ bosom. Paradise was placed in the charge of Abraham — not Moses.

Hebron, site of Abraham’s tomb, became the capital of Israel under David for the first seven years of his reign. David then moved the capital to Jerusalem. Hebron, meaning a "seat of association," was a temporary capital until the king moved to Jerusalem. In like manner, the "Bosom of Abraham," also called, "Paradise," was the abode of the righteous dead until Christ moved it to heaven. The parallel is clear. Abraham "looked for a city … whose builder and maker is God" (Hebrews 11:10). The New Jerusalem, eternal abode of the saints, is Abraham’s promised city....

Jesus made this startling statement:

"I say unto you, That many [Gentiles] shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven" (v. 11).

There is no mention here of Moses....

They will get there by trusting in that part of the Abrahamic Covenant, which promised, "God will provide himself a Lamb!" (Genesis 22:8)....

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Romans 4:1-3)....

The basis for the entire doctrine of eternal life was not based upon Moses, but Abraham. Paul put it this way in Rom. 4:13:

"For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."

My comment

> > "I say unto you, That many [Gentiles] shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven" (v. 11).
> > There is no mention here of Moses

Maybe because Moses and Elijah are on Earth at the time. They come at the beginning of the Tribulation and ascend to Heaven Mid-Trib (Rev. 11:1-12).

Incoming email

Render unto the Pope...
Adrian Hilton says that the EU is a means of undoing the Reformation and extending Vatican sovereignty over Britain
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=current&issue=2003-08-30&id=3450%20

...The Roman Church is founded on a political dogma claiming that the Pope is ‘supreme ruler of the world’; superior to all kings, prime ministers and presidents. These spiritual and temporal claims remain very much fundamental dogmas of Catholic teaching, permitting the Pope, through Cardinal Ratzinger, the Prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, to issue clear directives to Catholic politicians on how they should vote. Since their obedience is considered a ‘moral duty’, devolve everything to the overwhelmingly Catholic European Council of Ministers, Commission and Parliament, and the ultimate Caesar is the Pope....

Incoming email

I am a Christian. I am wondering why you believe in a pre tribulation “rapture” since this concept was not known until a certain lady came up with the idea in the eighteenth century. I understand this lady had some very heretical ideas. Will not Satan, the “Abomination of Desolation”, stand where he ought not come first and claim to be God? If this is true, might not many might be deceived and think that this imposter is actually the true Christ? Did you learn pre-tribulation “rapture” from a church? I would like very much to have your thoughts regarding this matter.

My reply

I believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, because I can see it so clearly in Scripture. Actually, I believe there will be both a Pre-Trib and a Pre-Wrath Rapture.

The Pre-Trib Rapture, THE FIRST TRUMP OF GOD

Nu. 10:1-4 says, "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS OF SILVER; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (as in Heb. 12:23). And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (i.e., the 12 patriarchs, elders), shall GATHER THEMSELVES UNTO THEE." These elders are seen crowned and seated on thrones immediately after the Pre-Trib Rapture in Rev. 4:4.

I Thess. 4:13-18 says, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Rev. 5:9 shows us the first group of saints to arrive in Heaven. They are out of all nations. It says, "they (the saints, i.e., the Bride of Christ) sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed US TO GOD BY THY BLOOD OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION."

As John is caught up to Heaven when Jesus Christ says, "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1, all the rest of the 24 elders are caught up. We see them, the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles of Israel, crowned and sitting on 24 thrones in Rev. 4:4. They are our Representatives in the government of God. Their names are on the heavenly New Jerusalem in Rev. 21:12,14.

"The RIGHTEOUS perisheth (abad, ESCAPES, vanishes), and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away (acaph, gathered, removed, evacuated), none considering that the RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY (acaph) from the evil (i.e., Tribulation) to come" (i.e., after the Pre-Trib Rapture).

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21:36).

The Pre-Wrath Rapture, the LAST TRUMP OF GOD

I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

Rev. 7:9,14 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne (i.e., in Heaven), and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...These are they which came OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, AND MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB."

Notice that the first group to be raptured had already confessed their sins so as to bring them all under the blood of Christ. They were wearing white raiment. I believe that the Laodiceans that are not wearing white robes of righteousness at the 1st Rapture (Rev. 3:18) will be in the 2nd Rapture. None will be lost.

Rev. 14:3 says, "And they (the 144,000 Israelites) sung AS IT WERE A NEW SONG (i.e., it is the same "new song," but it is sung after the Pre-Wrath Rapture) before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, WHICH WERE REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH" (i.e., at the second Rapture). The 144,000 Israelites are added to the Bride group. Verses 4 and 5 show why, "they are VIRGINS", they are "FIRSTFRUITS", and "they are WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God" (which is in Heaven).

Psa. 33:1,3 says, "O ye RIGHTEOUS...Sing unto him (the Lord) a NEW SONG." The RIGHTEOUS get to sing to the Lord the new song.

Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He BROUGHT ME UP (i.e., in the Pre-Trib Rapture) also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was raised up out of the miry pit), out of the miry clay (Earth), and set my feet upon a rock (the planet Heaven), and established my goings (i.e., at the Rapture). And he hath put a NEW SONG in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it (the Pre-Trib Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." The latter will be caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

> > this concept was not known until a certain lady came up with the idea in the eighteenth century

That is just not true. The early church could see what the scriptures mean. Ephraem of Nisibis (306-73), well-known in Syrian church history, certainly understood about the Pre-Trib Rapture.

In his approx. 1500 word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," he said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together BEFORE THE TRIBULATION, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." (Alexander, Paul J. "The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition [Berkeley: Univ. of CA Press, 1985] p. 210).

A little farther down in his sermon, he said, "Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and PREPARE OURSELVES FOR THE MEETING OF THE LORD CHRIST, SO THAT HE MAY DRAW US FROM THE CONFUSION, WHICH OVERWHELMS ALL THE WORLD? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: 'Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord?' FOR ALL THE SAINTS AND ELECT OF GOD ARE GATHERED, PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION THAT IS TO COME, AND ARE TAKEN TO THE LORD LEST THEY SEE THE CONFUSION THAT IS TO OVERWHELM THE WORLD BECAUSE OF OUR SINS."

In another place in that sermon, he said, "And there will be a great tribulation, as there has not been since people began to be on earth...and no one is able to sell or buy of the grain of the harvest, unless he is the one who has the serpentine sign on the forehead or the hand. And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know and on the day which the enemy or the son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints".

> > Will not Satan, the “Abomination of Desolation”, stand where he ought not come first and claim to be God? If this is true, might not many might be deceived and think that this imposter is actually the true Christ?

I think the abomination of desolation is the image of Rev. 13:14. Dan. 9:27 says of the False Prophet, "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (plural) he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (or desolator)."

II Thess. 2:1-13 says, "Now we (believers) beseech you, brethren (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by OUR gathering together unto him (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (almost all major MSS say 'day of the Lord,' the Millennial reign of Christ) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (apostasia, DEPARTURE, i.e., the Pre-Trib gathering of the believers) FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed (SECOND), the son of perdition (i.e., Satan possesses him as he did Judas Iscariot, the other son of perdition); Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Holy Spirit indwelling the salt of the Earth) who now letteth will let (Old English for hindereth will hinder), until he be taken out of the way (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture). And then (after the Rapture) shall that Wicked (False Prophet) be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them ('them that perish') strong delusion, that they (the ones 'that perish') should believe a lie: That they ('that perish') all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we (believers, salt of the Earth) are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren (believers) beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you (believers) to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth."

> > Did you learn pre-tribulation “rapture” from a church?

That's hard to say. I read the Bible before I would study with anyone. I figured that I needed that background in order to sort out fact from fiction. That was before 1960, so it is hard to remember just when I first began to understand the Pre-Trib Rapture. The Rapture was a familiar thing to me, so I probably picked that up at Bethany Baptist Church in Whittier, CA. Later, a friend and I attended whenever R.B Thieme, pastor of Berachah Church, Houston, TX, came to town. We listened to his tapes too, and he taught the Pre-Trib Rapture.

I liked the way he taught, word by word and verse by verse, straight out of Scripture. He knew both Hebrew and Greek, and explained exactly what the original words meant. He gave me a good background to complement the 7 years I spent reading about an 18" stack of books every week from BIOLA'S Seminary Collection. Agape

Incoming email

FWD: Aliyah Myers (3 Sep 2003) [Five Doves post]
"Re: Bill English.....................We Must All Appear"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2003/aliyahm93.htm
---
You said: The widespread teaching that either all or part of the Church will remain on earth during the Tribulation has no basis whatsoever in Scripture.

My response: What scripture are reading????????????? Are you sure its the HOLY BIBLE????????? If it is how do explain the below verse to the church of Thyatira????????????

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into GREAT TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds. Rev. 2:22

You said: Scriptural warrant for both the removal of the Church before the Tribulation and the fact that all Christians -- faithful and unfaithful alike -- will be removed at this time is not difficult at all to find.

My response: Yes sweetie! Its VERY difficult to find in light of the below verse! How could Jesus appoint the portion of the HYPOCRITE CHRISTIANS with the UNBELIEVERS if He raptured them to Heaven??????????????????

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will CUT HIM in SUNDER, and will APPOINT him his portion WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.

You said: Events of the judgment seat of Christ will occur between the removal of the Church before the Tribulation and the return of Christ following the Tribulation.

My response: Events of the judgment seat of Christ will NOT occur until AFTER the tribulation AFTER the battle of Armageddon is fought!

When Jesus comes at the rapture, He is coming for a faithful bride who has KEPT HIS WORDS, such as the Phildelphian Christians whom He has promised to keep from the tribulation so they can have a marriage supper with Him in Heaven.

Because thou hast KEPT THE WORD OF MY PATIENCE, I also will KEEP thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the WORLD, to TRY them that DWELL upon the EARTH. Rev. 3:10

And I heard as it were the voice of a GREAT multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE of the LAMB is COME, and his wife hath MADE HERSELF READY. Rev. 19:6-7

------By the time Jesus comes AFTER the tribulation, the martyrs have already been slain so that ALL the body of Christ will be present at the same time to appear before the judgment seat of Christ. The unbelievers will NOT be part of this judgment. Theirs will be at the END of the 1,000 years.

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that everyone may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad (II Cor. 5:10).

......and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived NOT again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST resurrection. BLESSED and HOLY is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath NO power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall REIGN with him a thousand years. Rev. 20:4-6

------The faithful saints who are alive AFTER the tribulation and the resurrection of the matryred saints will occur at the LAST TRUMP when Jesus returns AFTER the tribulation. It is AFTER this event occurs that ALL Christians will appear before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged.

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1 Cor 15:52
Shalom, Aliyah!

My comments are marked ***

> > > You said: Scriptural warrant for both the removal of the Church before the Tribulation and the fact that all Christians -- faithful and unfaithful alike -- will be removed at this time is not difficult at all to find.

> > My response: Yes sweetie! Its VERY difficult to find in light of the below verse! How could Jesus appoint the portion of the HYPOCRITE CHRISTIANS with the UNBELIEVERS if He raptured them to Heaven??????????????????

> > But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will CUT HIM in SUNDER, and will APPOINT him his portion WITH THE UNBELIEVERS.

***I agree . I'll just elaborate a bit. To me, it seems easier to understand when reading a larger section of Scripture. In Luke 12:42, the Lord spoke to the "faithful and wise steward (i.e., a saved member of the church, a wise virgin), whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season." Then in verses 45-47, he said, "But and if that servant (the same 'faithful and wise steward') say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant ('the faithful and wise' virgin that has now become foolish) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him (the now foolish believer) his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers. And that servant (the foolish virgin), which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself (see I John 1:9 on confessing sins), neither did according to his will (i.e., he committed sin), shall be beaten with many stripes."

***Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

***This is the same as the man that was cast outside the door for not having on "a wedding garment" in Mt. 22:1-14. The last verse says, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

***At the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture, "they that ARE with him (the Lamb, Christ) ARE called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:14). Those not wearing white robes of righteousness (i.e., the foolish Laodicean virgins) are cast outside the door. What door? Heaven's door that is open when Jesus says, "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1? I think so. That is the "open door" set before the Philadelphians, for whom Jesus had no words of condemnation, in Rev. 3:8. The unrepentant Laodiceans face a closed door in Rev. 3:20.

> > My response: Events of the judgment seat of Christ will NOT occur until AFTER the tribulation AFTER the battle of Armageddon is fought!

***I expect the Judgment Seat of Christ on the first day of his millennial reign. That is also the Day of God's Wrath. Since Armageddon is war between Christ's forces and Satan's forces, I think it will come after the Second Advent, 7 months AFTER the Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:18-20; 39:12,13).

***Rev. 11:17,18 says, "We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (the Second Advent is still future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

***The small and great saints are in Heaven. The Pre-Wrath Rapture has just taken place. The Tribulation saints are there. In Rev. 7:9,14, we see that this great multitude that can't be counted have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb. They had spotted robes at the time of the first Rapture. The foolish virgins among them have wised up. By confessing their sins committed after they accepted Christ, they have brought them all under the blood of Christ.

> > By the time Jesus comes AFTER the tribulation, the martyrs have already been slain so that ALL the body of Christ will be present at the same time to appear before the judgment seat of Christ. The unbelievers will NOT be part of this judgment. Theirs will be at the END of the 1,000 years.

***Rev. 11:18 shows that the unbelievers on Earth are collectively judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Thus, the Wrath of God can hit the unbelievers on Earth. However, you are right that the unbelievers will be judged individually at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the Millennium. Agape

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