Pro and Con 1068

Posted 10-29-03

DATE OF THE BIRTH OF JESUS

By Marilyn Agee

I went to several Hebrew calendar converter sites. They said that Tishri 1, 3757, was equal to SATURDAY, August 31, 5 BC. (On the ones that, like the astronomers and YourSky, insert the 0 year, I had to put in 4 BC to get the correct results for 5 BC.)

This site (http://222.ortelius.de/kalender/form_en2.php) said, "The Jewish Calendar was fixed about the 10th century. Thus, Jewish Calendar dates up to the 10th century are printed in italic letters. THEY PROBABLY DO NOT CORRESPOND TO THE DATES THEN USED."

I heartily agree with that. Here is the sky chart from YourSky for THURSDAY, NOT SATURDAY, Aug. 31, BC 4 (= BC 5) at 15:15 UTC.

I'm glad to find out that the correct day of the week is Thursday, because Tishri 1 can't be on Sunday, Wednesday or Friday. Thursday, Aug. 31, BC 5, would be a candidate for Tishri 1, except that the Sun has not yet caught up with the Moon.

I had gone to http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/phases. A Partial Solar Eclipse was coming up at 18:03 UTC, Sept. 1, BC 5. That would be at New Moon, important to know when figuring when Tishri 1 actually was. A Solar Eclipse can only happen at New Moon. A Lunar Eclipse can only happen at Full Moon. On page 118, Kerrod's Star Guide says, "An eclipse of the Sun occurs when, at New Moon phase, the Moon's disk covers the Sun's and blots out its light...An eclipse of the Moon occurs when at Full Moon phase, the Moon moves into the Earth's shadow."

Here is the sky chart for Friday, BC 4 (actually BC 5) at 15:45 UTC on Sept. 1.

Sept. 1, BC 5 can't be Tishri 1, because it is Friday. The Feast of Trumpets can't be on Sunday, Wednesday or Friday. Tishri 1 would be delayed one day. Here is the sky chart for SATURDAY, Sept. 2, BC 4 (= BC 5).

Here, we can see that the Solar Eclipse had already taken place. The Sun was emerging from behind the Moon. The first sliver of the New Moon would be visible soon. Saturn was in Aries, the Ram. That's perfect for Jesus is the Lamb of God.

Here, they couldn't postpone Tishri 1 to Sept. 3, because that would be Sunday. Rosh HaShannah can't be on Sunday, Wednesday or Friday. In Mt. 12:8, he said, "the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." It looks like the Saturday Sabbath, Sept. 2, BC 5, is when Jesus was born.

Let's check that date out another way. The New Moon can be calculated mathematically from the first New Moon (FNM), when the Jewish Calendar started.

In "THE ORIGINAL CALENDAR FOR OUR DAY," by Wayne Bedwell (http://www.talentsministries.org/booklets/original_calendar_for_our_day.html), Bedwell made an interesting observation about a mathematically calculated Molad, conjunction of the Sun and Moon, the New Moon.

He said, "The use of a calculated molad is in evidence as early as King David. In 1 Sam 20:5, it was known in advance when the new moon would be celebrated. If the new moon could only be determined by the crescent moon, how could David, Jonathan, and King Saul have known to plan a banquet the next day? How could they know they could observe the new moon the next day? Without a calculated molad, could they have planned their banquet if it were cloudy?"

I did this computation long ago. I'm glad I put it in a spiral notebook for future reference. The Year column on the left adds up to the Jewish 3757, which is BC 5. The FNM is found by these computations. Then it may have to be adjusted because of some rules they have.

 Years  Adding  Day #  Hours  Min's  Parts
 1  FNM of Tishri  0  23  11  06
 1900  100 cycles  2  23  05  10
 1710  90 cycles  3  189  270  90
 133  7 cycles  0  112  231  07
 9  9 ord. yrs  4  07  18  00
 4  4 leap yrs  2  14  10  16
 3757    12  377  552  129
     -7  -360  -540  -126
     5  17  12  3

Seven days or multiples are discarded. Day numbers are 0 Sunday, 1 Monday, 2 Tuesday, 3 Wednesday, 4 Thursday, 5 Friday, and 6 Saturday. These results for Tishri 1, 3757 (BC 5) mean that the New Moon of Tishri is Friday at 12 minutes and 3 parts after 5 PM.

However, Tishri 1 can't be on Sunday, Wednesday or Friday, so Tishri 1 is shifted to Saturday. It would have had to be shifted to Saturday anyway, because the New Moon was after noon.

This matches the Saturday, Sept. 2, BC 5 date for the birth of Christ, figured by observing the sky charts. I had no idea that such good tools would be readily available on the Internet. Thank you Lord.

DEBKAfile, Re: California Fires

http://www.debka.com/

A June 25 FBI memo alerted law enforcement agencies to warning from detained al Qaeda terrorist of a plot to set off devastating forest fires around the western US. This was revealed by Arizona Republic and confirmed by National Interagency Fire Center in relation to terrible wildfires raging in South California.

Incoming email

13 Dead, 850 Homes Burned As Wildfires Ravage Southland
Several Fires Merge
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2582283/detail.html

10-26-03 - SAN BERNARDINO, CA...Authorities announced they were seeking two men for investigation of arson and possibly murder in connection with the fire, which ravaged foothill neighborhoods of San Bernardino and threatened mountain homes. One man was seen Saturday morning throwing something into roadside brush that caught fire, then he and a companion fled in a van, officials said.

Cooler Weather May Help Calm California Fires

By Gina Keating
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&ncid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20031029/ts_nm/environment_fire_dc

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) ...Los Angeles County police arrested a man who started a brush fire in the mountains above Pasadena, about 10 miles east of Los Angeles, on Tuesday, after hikers spotted him. He was being held on $50,000 bail, officials said....

My comments

The spacing of the separate fires suggests arson to me. The fires are moving so fast, any news articles sound like old news to me. Over 2000 homes burned by last night. A bit ago, I heard of another 300 just in one area near Lake Arrowhead.

I live in Riverside, south and a bit west of San Bernardino. Smoke and ash from the San Bernardino fire has blanketed this area at times, but it is not bad today. The day the Santa Ana winds howled past the house stripping loose leaves and blooms off of shrubs and trees was the worst. That day, there was lots of brown smoke. Visability was bad on the roads. Riverside County received a fire danger warning this morning. At that time, both Lake Arrowhead and Big Bear Lake areas were in danger. Scattered cabins had already burned. I just heard some snatches of news while ago. Arrowhead is saved. Thank you Lord. I hope Big Bear is too, but the winds are up again, gusting over 30 mph. That makes it almost impossible to do much to stop the fires. One fireman is dead, and his buddy is badly burned. Some others were treated and released. The fire doubled back on them unexpectedly and too fast to outrun. The rest of that crew have been sent home to rest. Well, the star spangled banner yet waved in the morning light. Let's hope Big Bear's timber and homes are yet there in the morning.


Ossuary Update

Israel Antiquities Authority’s Report Deeply Flawed
By André Lemaire, of Biblical Archaeology Review
link

...Dr. Orna Cohen is a conservator, “specializing in identification and restoration of ancient patina.” She describes three factors that lead her to conclude that the inscription only “suggests forgery.” (Italics supplied.) This seems to mean that she is not sure the inscription is a forgery.

The first factor she cites is that “the patina in the letters is grainy ... not similar to natural patina.” How did this patina get there? According to Dr. Cohen, “It appears that ground chalk mixed with water was used to coat the letters.” She then jumps on an evil motive without considering whether other, less nefarious, reasons may explain this grainy patina—perhaps it was the accidental result of a cleaning.

Why is this grainy patina here? Dr. Cohen guesses, “Probably to camouflage the intervention of the inscription.” (Italics supplied.) Again, she is not sure. But she assumes the worst (to camouflage a forgery), without considering other, more benign, possibilities.

Then she drops a bomb. She finds that the same yellowish patina that is on the side of the ossuary is also in the incisions of the letters of “brother of Jesus.” Her exact words are: “A microscopic examination revealed the same yellowish patina as on the ossuary surface inside the letters ’brother of Jesus.’” If I understand this correctly, it means that she finds the last two words of the inscription to be authentic! And if the last two words are authentic, then, based on the paleographic, linguistic and orthographic considerations outlined above, the entire inscription is very probably authentic. Paleographical analysis shows that the entire inscription was engraved as a continuum. And linguistically it would be difficult to explain an ossuary that was inscribed only “brother of Jesus,” with nothing else, but waiting to be completed by a forger.

Dr. Cohen does not reach this conclusion, however. Instead, she finds that “even though part of the inscription may be original, the inscription in its entirety is a fake.” (Italics supplied.) This sentence is completely illogical and reveals her prejudices. How can one say, “Even though part of the inscription may be original, the inscription in its entirety is a fake”? In the same sentence, we have two statements that contradict each other!...

Professor Goren. He lets the cat out of the bag, so to speak. He concedes that “the inscription was engraved (or at least, completely cleaned) in modern times.” (Italics supplied.) Why does he put the alternative in parentheses?

Elsewhere Goren explains that the person who created the coating applied it “in order to blur the freshly engraved signs.” How can he tell? Is there not another possible explanation—a rigorous cleaning with a brush and warm water?

Interestingly, in the first quotation above (with the “or”), Goren puts the possibility of cleaning in parentheses; in the later quotation (the coating was applied “in order to blur the freshly engraved sign”), the explanation of cleaning disappears altogether. The same phenomenon appears in his “Abstracts of Findings,” where he wrote first: “The inscription was inscribed or cleaned in a modern period,” but, later on, the alternative explanation of a cleaning is no longer considered....

The possibilities are better stated by Dr. Amos Bein, the director of the Israel Geological Survey, who told Canadian filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici quite specifically that the work Dr. Ayalon did for the Survey did not show that the inscription was a forgery. In Dr. Bein’s words:

“We didn’t decide the inscription is fake,” he said. “If somebody would like to preserve the inscription, or would like to improve its appearance, and he would like to clean it, and thereafter to make it shine better, and he made [a] procedure of cleaning, thereafter adding warm water and so on, he may have created some carbonate particles which may provide this isotopic composition.”

As between the two explanations—forgery or cleaning—the latter is consistent with the paleography and the linguistics, both of which indicate that the inscription is one continuum.

Surely, the explanation for the patina as a result of a modern cleaning (or cleanings) is at least plausible. In fact, this explanation has been espoused by two previous materials examinations, one by the Israel Geological Survey and the other by the ROM. Their studies, however, were not mentioned by the IAA committee.

For all these reasons, I’m afraid little confidence can be placed in the IAA’s conclusion on the ossuary.

MJA Note: Most of the panel are probably anti-Christian to boot.

Incoming email

here is a link (it didn't come through) to a site that says muslem prophecy says Imam Mahdi will return with the two eclipses during Ramadan. Here is a clip from the page: 'Verily, for our Mahdi there are two signs which have never as yet concurred since the creation of the heavens and earth; first is the eclipse of the moon on the first night of Ramadan, and second is the eclipse of the sun during the middle of that same Ramadan. This (concurrence of a solar and lunar eclipse) has never happened since Allah created the heavens and earth.'
(Dare Qutni vol.2 p.65)

My reply

Here are the upcoming eclipses from a navy web site.
---
U.S. Naval Observatory Astronomical Applications Department
Upcoming & Recent Eclipses of the Sun and Moon
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/UpcomingEclipses.html

2003 November 23-24 - total solar eclipse
2004 April 19 - partial solar eclipse
2004 October 14 - partial solar eclipse

2003 November 8-9 - total lunar eclipse
2004 May 4 - total lunar eclipse

Incoming email, Re: Jesus kingly inheritance

Interestingly, a study I heard just this week by Jon Coursin touched on a related point. He spoke of the Wedding at Cana and how Mary told Jesus "they are out of wine" and how Jesus responded (Jon's translation) "Woman, what am I going to do with you?". Jon suggested that Mary may have felt that her time had finally come to be vindicated after all the years of rumors and innuendoes, that Jesus would finally show them his stuff and everyone would now know the truth. That of course did not happen. Jesus did what his mother asked, but essentially in secret. The sword, at least part of it, continued to pierce her soul. It was an aspect of this event that I had never considered before.

My reply

Jesus also seemed to be heading off any thought that if we prayed to Mary, she would get her son to do what we ask for. We do not need another mediator. "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (I Tim. 2:5).

John 2:1 says, "the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there". Cana means the nest. Galilee means circle, i.e., a sphere. To me, that suggests a dwelling place in Heaven. I have thought that the Marriage of the Lamb would take place in Heaven on the first day of the millennial Kingdom of Christ. However, this just might mean that it would take place on the third day of his rule."

Rev. 19:6,7 says, "I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready." I took this as meaning the same day, but maybe it is three days later. Verse 2 shows that the Judgment Seat of Christ is past. That's on the first day, the Day of God's Wrath.

Can you think of anything else that would have a bearing on this? Agape

Incoming email, Re: Mystery Asteroid, Hermes, May Have a Partner

By Robert Roy Britt, 21 October 2003
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/hermes_binary_031021.html

...When Hermes was recovered last week and thought to be a single object, astronomers estimated its diameter at 0.62 to 1.24 miles (1-2 kilometers)....

The Jewish/Civil Calendar Program

Some Information
Some Background to the Program
http://www.uwm.edu/~corre/calendar.html

...According to Jewish tradition, the year 1 of the Jewish calendar was the time of "waste and void" referred to in Genesis 1.1. Nothing was yet created, and only a virtual clock started to tick on the first day of that year, heard, as it were, only by the Creator. On the first day of the week (Sunday) the twenty-fourth day of Elul, corresponding to August 22, 3760 B.C.E. (in the Gregorian calendar -- of course this calendar did not exist at that time) He said: Let there be light! and creation began. It concluded by the following Sabbath (Saturday) which was the first day of Tishri, year 2. A cosmic mystery for you to think about....

Incoming email, Re: Jesus kingly inheritance

Rich Pope said "But if Jesus has no earthly father, he cannot trace his lineage to David because tribal lineage is ALWAYS through the father. Even if one claims Joseph is Jesus' adoptive father, this doesn't count. Jewish Law does not allow for tribal lineage to pass to adoptive sons."

But Jesus wasn't adopted. He was legally Joseph's true son and nobody could prove otherwise. Only Mary and Joseph knew the truth and told that truth to others. Even the pharisees hinted at this:

John 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, [even] God.

The rumors must have persisted that Mary conceived out of wedlock and that Jesus was born of fornication, but it could only remain a rumor. For all practical purposes Jesus was the legal son of Mary and Joseph, period. However, we know the truth. In fact His blood line can be traced to David through Mary (see Luke's geneology) but avoids the curse that God put on the blood line of Jeconiah in Jeremiah 22:30. It also avoids the sin which Adam passed to all generations.

I suspect that Rich Pope will become a great evangelist during the Tribulation.

My reply

> > In fact His blood line can be traced to David through Mary (see Luke's geneology) but avoids the curse that God put on the blood line of Jeconiah in Jeremiah 22:30. It also avoids the sin which Adam passed to all generations.

Thanks for reminding me of Jer. 22:30.

Bob Thieme, of Baruchah Church, Houston, TX, said that the sin nature is passed to offspring by their fathers, not by their mothers. Therefore, Jesus, being born of the seed of the woman, did not inherit Adam's sin nature.

Back in Noah's day, only Noah "was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God" (Gen. 6:9). Just when Satan thought he was winning the Angelic Conflict, God unexpectedly saved Noah and his family and destroyed the rest.

Taking a different tack, Satan must have gloated, thinking he had won the war when the descendants of Jeconiah were cut off from the throne of David. He couldn't see how a descendant of David could ever come to sit on David's throne. He probably thought that the promise of God had been annulled. However, it's just when Satan thinks he is winning, that he finds out that God has outsmarted him.

With God, all things are possible. Mary was descended from David, so He prepared a body for the Son of God from Mary. It doesn't matter what men thought, or what Satan thought, God did what He had the power to do, and Satan was outsmarted again.

Satan killed that body, thinking he would not be able to sit on David's throne, thereby taking millions out of his own grasp and elevating the sinless Lord Jesus Christ to his eternal destiny. A descendant of David will indeed inherit the throne of David.

Because of the prophecy about her seed in Gen. 3:15, we know that God planned this outcome from the beginning. Agape

My reply to an omitted incoming e-mail

> > what's the difference between the opening of the 6th seal and the blowing of the trumpets (namely the 5th).
>> Both can be seen as "the wrath of the Lord" but there is a big difference.
> > The 7 trumpets marks the start of Judgment Day and will happen after God's people have been raptured one way or another.

If, as you say, the 7 trumpets mark the START of Judgment Day, the 7 trumpets will not sound before Judgment Day begins. The Sixth seal is before Judgment day begins.

The opening of the 6th seal is not the Wrath of God. The 6th seal is opened on the Eve of Trumpets. Right there, after the 6th seal is broken, is where the shortening of the Tribulation comes. The 7th seal is broken the next day, on the Feast of Trumpets. God's wrath strikes Earth that day at noon. All 7 trumpet judgments hit Earth on the Feast of Trumpets.

Rev. 6:12 tells us that the 6th seal is broken. Then some fireworks accompany the viewing of Christ sitting on his throne in the heavens. That is the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:30. After that, we see men hiding in the rocks "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb: For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME (it is now 6 PM); and who shall (after noon this day) be able to stand."

Zeph. 2:3-5 not only tells us that the catastrophe strikes at noon, but shows that the 2nd Rapture will take place that same day between its beginning at 6 PM and noon. It says, "before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER COME upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be YE SHALL BE HID IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast".

> > This means that after the "warning sign" of the 6th seal there is still a time where people (including saints) can reconcile before the sounding of the TRUMPETS. Simply considering the fact that this "desolation" will take place in the "middle of the week" (with 1260 days to go) one can assume that Rev 7:3 would cover a period of at least 2 years. (the 5th and 6th trumpet together last 541 days).

There is not much time to reconcile. The 6th seal is broken on the last day of this age. The 7th seal is broken the next day, the first day of Christ's millennial reign. All 7 trumpet judgments hit Earth on the first day of his reign as King of kings and Lord of Lords.

> > It is written that all the saints die in a situation of prosecution (Rev 6:11). I believe that they are raptured (i.e., they won't taste death) but not in a "collective rapture". Jesus said we didn't know the hour of His coming, and that to me strengthens the theory of an "individual timed rapture" rather than a "collective rapture".

Not all saints die. I think that the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Pre-Wrath Rapture will each take place all at once. Agape

   Pro and Con 1069   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2002, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-29-03