Pro and Con 1087

Posted 1-11-04

Which Mt. Sinai is the right one?

To me, the traditional route of the Exodus seems impossible. The Israelites were in the desert all the way from Egypt to Mt. Sinai/Horeb. Jebel Musa, near the lower tip of the peninsula, is 7,497 miles high. I can't imagine millions of people and all their flocks going into that kind of terrain, or going north along the Gulf of Aqaba.

Mt. Sinai is in the desert. Ex. 19:1,2 says, "In the third month, when the children of Israel were gone forth out of the land of Egypt, the same day came they into the wilderness (midbar, desert) of Sinai. For they were departed from Rephidim, and were come to the desert (midbar) of Sinai, and had pitched in the wilderness (midbar, desert); and there Israel camped before the mount."

The satellite picture below shows what I think is the real Mt. Sinai. Ex. 3:1 says, "Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert (midbar), and came to the mountain of God, even to Horeb" (choreb, desolate). The backside of the desert would be away from the Mediterranean Sea, right where this picture shows a mountain. The map in the back of my Scofield Bible labels it "Mt. Sinai? (Jebel Helal)". Kadesh Barnea is east of it, near the border of the Negev that runs from near Rapha, on the Great Sea, to Elath, on the Red Sea.

Replacing Jerry Golden's hacked article

The photos are included here: http://www.rense.com/general44/gikdeb.htm

Incoming email, Re: Are all men saved?

The key to the whole Bible: God is going to save us all, whether we want Him to or not:

I love these two verses in Luke 2:10,11. "...which shall be to ALL people..." I really believe it means "all." Past, Present, and Future--including Muslims! [We just have to protect ourselves now with Romans 13:1-4

As does the word "all" in these verses:

1 Timothy 2:1-6: "I exhort...that ...prayers, and giving of thanks, be made for ALL men...For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4) Who will have ALL men to be saved, [and who has resisted His "will--Romans 9:19] and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5) For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

1 Tim 4: 9: "This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. 10) For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe. 11) These things command and teach

Romans 11:26 "And so ALL Israel shall be saved." [Past, Present, and Future!}

But what of ALL us gentiles? Romans 15:11 and 10: "And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles; and laud him, ALL [ALL] ye people, 10) And again he saith, Rejoice, ye gentiles, WITH HIS PEOPLE [The Jews! ALL of whom will be saved by First Corinthians 15:22-25: "For as in Adam ALL die, even so in Christ shall ALL be made alive. 23) But every man in his own order... 24) Then cometh the end, when he [Christ] shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; ...28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, the God may be ALL in ALL."]

Ezekiel 37 [The "dry bones passage"] Verse 11 "...Son of man, these bones are the WHOLE house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. 12) Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Romans 11:32: "For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL! Merry Christmas, Happy Chanuchah! Y'ALL

My reply

> > Romans 11:26 "And so ALL Israel shall be saved." [Past, Present, and Future!}

But, what if it doesn't mean "Past, Present, and Future"? What if it is a segment of Israel that is to be saved? How do you reconcile that with Rom. 9:27? It says, "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, A REMNANT SHALL BE SAVED." How do you explain verses like Rom. 9:6? It says, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL, WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL."

Many people have a problem with letting the Bible interpret itself. They see what they want to see, add in what they want to add in, and assume what they want to assume. It is not safe to go by what anyone writes without comparing it with other scriptures on the subject. One can be led astray bit by bit by man's reasoning. The way some put it, each step sounds right, so we are drawn off couse without our realizing it.

To arrive at the correct interpretation, we have to compare scripture with scripture. The Lord interpets his own word. He didn't put all the clues in one place. Why? Isa. 28:13 explains, "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; HERE A LITTLE, AND THERE A LITTLE; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Dan. 12:10 tells us that "none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." The wise virgins have enough oil of the Holy Spirit to understand when they compare a verse with other verses on the subject.

Something more than physical existance is necessary for one to be saved, and we are not going to be saved against our will. Salvation is conditional. It has a prerequisite, a certain stipulated condition, that has to be met before salvation is enabled for each individual. Otherwise, we would not have been in need of a Saviour, Jesus would not have had to die, Paul would not have been sent to the Gentiles, and there would be no Hell for unbelievers.

As for me, I firmly believe that the condition listed in Rom. 1:16,17 is necessary. Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto SALVATION TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Mark 16:16 says, "HE THAT BELIEVETH and is baptized (i.e., by Christ, when he gives the sealing of the indwelling Holy Spirit) shall be saved; but HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT SHALL BE DAMNED."

John 3:16-18 says, "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHOULD NOT PERISH, BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. HE THAT BELIEVETH ON HIM IS NOT CONDEMNED; BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD."

John 3:36 says, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE but the wrath of God abideth on him."

When Jesus spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus, he sent him to the Gentiles, "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among THEM WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED BY FAITH THAT IS IN ME." Without that faith in Christ, they would not receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among those sanctified by faith.

Gal. 3:11,12 says, "NO MAN is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them."

Heb. 10:38 says, "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

>> we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe.

The word "specially" in I Tim. 4:10 is "malista," most of all, chiefly.

> > Romans 11:32: "For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL

Rom. 9:15 says, "he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." I take it that there are those upon whom mercy is not given. Maybe he would have mercy on all the believers, but not on the unbelievers.

This is not a new idea. It crops up periodically. In "WILL ALL BE SAVED" (8/1/01, First Things: A Monthly Journal of Religion and Public Life; Neuhaus, Richard John), Neuhaus said, "The question of universalism--whether all will, in the end, be saved--is perennially agitated in the Christian tradition. A notable proponent of that view was the great Origen, who, in the third century, set forth a theologically and philosophically complex doctrine of "Apocatastasis" according to which all creatures, including the devil, will be saved. "Origenism"--which is not necessarily the same thing as Origen taught--has been condemned from time to time, with the Emperor Justinian trying, unsuccessfully, to get a total condemnation at the Second Council of Constantinople."

In Eze. 18:4,20, the LORD said, "THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE....THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED."

The unholy trinity, Satan, the Beast and the False Prophet, all end up in the Lake of Fire. "And the (1) DEVIL that deceived them WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE and brimstone, WHERE (2) THE BEAST AND (3) THE FALSE PROPHET ARE, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever....And death (THE BEAST) and hell (SATAN, Rev. 6:8) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:14,15).

In Heaven, "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life."

As for me, I firmly believe that the condition listed in Rom. 1:16-22 is necessary. Paul said, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto SALVATION TO EVERY ONE THAT BELIEVETH; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. FOR THE WRATH OF GOD IS REVEALED FROM HEAVEN AGAINST ALL UNGODLINESS AND UNRIGHTEOUSNESS of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE."

When Jesus spoke to Paul on the road to Damascus, he sent him to the Gentiles, "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among THEM WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED BY FAITH THAT IS IN ME" (Acts 26:18). Without that faith in Christ, they would not receive forgiveness of sins and inheritance among those sanctified by faith.

Heb. 11:6 says, "WITHOUT FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM: FOR HE THAT COMETH TO GOD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS, AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM." Agape

PS: 1Ti 4:10 in the ISV, is easier to understand than in the KJV. The ISV says, "To this end we work hard and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, THAT IS, OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE."

The Greek word "malista," translated "that is" in the ISV, is clearer than the KJV's "specially." The Greek papyrus letters show that "malista" was used to define more precisely that which preceded it. Besides "that is," it could be translated "in other words."

Jesus is the only Saviour of the whole world. He is the Saviour of all men potentially. However, effectually, he is the Saviour of those that believe in him.

2Ti 2:10-15 says, "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

His reply

Omitted. He put his remarks in between what I said, making it too long. The main things are in my reply below.

My reply

> > "And he [Jesus] said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were GIVEN unto him of my Father."

That's no problem. All believers can come unto Jesus. The Father will allow it. The word translated "given" is the Greek didomai. It means delivered up, or yielded.

> > "I exhort...that ...prayers, and giving of thanks, be made for ALL men...For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4) Who will have ALL men to be saved, [and who has resisted His "will--Romans 9:19] and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5) For there is ONE GOD, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

That's no problem. God provided a way that all men can be saved. Of course, he wills that all be saved. That doesn't mean that all will be saved, or that any would be saved against their will. God is testing mankind. He gave us free will. He is watching to see who will exercise his will and accept his only Saviour, and who will not.

It seems that Satan was tested before man was created. He failed his test. He was tried and sentenced to the prison created for the wicked angels. Evidently, Satan appealed his sentence. He may have said something like "How can a loving God consign one of his creatures to prison?" At this point, God could have created man as a weaker and smaller creature that could not see God. If man, who was not able to see God could still obey Him, God would be proved perfectly just in consigning Satan and his wicked angels to prison for their disobedience in spite of being able to see God.

1Cor 4:9 seems to reflect this. It says, "For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, AND TO ANGELS, and to men."

1Pe 1:12 says, "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached THE GOSPEL unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; WHICH THINGS THE ANGELS DESIRE TO LOOK INTO."

> > Do you truly believe that we are saved by grace, through the "faith" [which is "give"--see above]? How much did you have to do with your salvation if it was "given" to you by "grace?" "For by grace are ye saved by faith [which is given, see above], and that not of yourselves [you had NOTHING] to do with it!: it is the "gift" of God: 9) Not of works, LEST ANY MAN BOAST. 10) For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, created in Christ Jesus UNTO GOOD WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should WALK IN THEM." [Eph 2:8-10]

Let's look at Eph. 2:8,9 again. I'll tell you the way I see it. This passage says, "by grace are ye SAVED through (dia, the channel of an act, by reason of) faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast."

What is the gift of God? Is it faith or salvation? I think the subject of verse 8 is salvation. We are saved by God's grace by reason of our faith. Our salvation is not of us, but of God. Our salvation is the gift of God to us, because of our faith. What we could not earn by works, God gives to us because we have faith. Not everyone has faith, and not everyone is saved.

Faith cometh by the means of our hearing or reading the word of God. There can be intermediaries in the hearing, but once we have faith, salvation is all of God. Christ baptizes us with the "Spirit of Christ," which is the "Spirit of God." Rom 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the SPIRIT OF GOD dwell in you. Now if any man have not the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is none of his."

In Rom 10:8-10,17, Paul said, "But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of FAITH, which we preach; That IF thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation....So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

> > I love these two verses in Luke 2:10,11. "...which shall be to ALL people..." I really believe it means "all." Past, Present, and Future--including Muslims! [We just have to protect ourselves now with Romans 13:1-4

Rom. 13:1,2 says, "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation."

I don't see how Muslims can be saved, unless they accept Jesus Christ of Nazareth as their Saviour. Acts 4:10-12 says, by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead....Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

> > Romans 11:26 "And so ALL Israel shall be saved." [Past, Present, and Future!}

However, Rom 9:6 says, "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL, WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL".

> > all will be saved--eventually.
> > Let me know if I ignored something or left out something important. I try to live totally by the Bible, and Jesus Christ IS the Word [John 1].

You are implying that the damnation of the unbelievers will come to an end. If that was true, our eternal life would come to an end, and Christ's kingdom would come to an end, and that can't happen.

> > "And EVERY creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and ALL that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever."
> > It does not mean that He will save ALL from hell and the lake of fire in THIS LIFETIME. It just means that hell and the lake of fire are not "eternal" ["aeon" cannot possible mean "eternal"--otherwise you would have the Bible contradicting Itself by saying there are many "eternals!"] When the Bible says He is the "Aeonic" God, it merely means that He is the God of the "aeons!] When we are given "aeonic" life, it means life during this eon of "grace"! It does not mean that then we die after this eon!]
< < The second death will be done away with, according to 1 Cor 15:26.

I Cor. 15:26 says, "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." Man is body, soul and spirit (I Thess. 5:23). The death of the body is the first death. The second death is death of the soul. Eze 18:4 says, "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL DIE." What the unsaved is left with after the second death is the spirit of man, called "their worm." Mark 9:44 bluntly says, "THEIR WORM DIETH NOT, AND THE FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED."

Heb 4:12 says, "the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

What you said about "the 'Aeonic' God" and the "'aeonic' life" reminds me that A.E.K. (Knoch?) had the Concordant Bible translated to go along with his similar pet theory. You don't think "aion" can mean eternal, but here is what Strong's says, "165 aion ahee-ohn' from the same as 104; properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future):--age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end)."

104 says, "aei ah-eye' from an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); "ever,"by qualification regularly; by implication, earnestly; --always, ever.

Let's look at some scriptures. There are two groups of people, the righteous (saved) and the condemned (lost). Mt. 12:37 says, "by thy words thou shalt be JUSTIFIED (dikaioo, be righteous) and by thy words thou shalt be CONDEMNED (krisis, damned)." 1Peter 4:18 asks, "if the RIGHTEOUS scarcely (molis, hardly, i.e., barely) be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" I don't see how anyone could think "the ungodly and the sinner" would be among the righteous. It sounds to me like they are among the condemned, the damned.

In John 5:24, Jesus said, "Verily, verily (amen, amen, so be it, so be it, i.e., pay attention, this is important), I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath EVERLASTING (aionios, perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting) LIFE, AND SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION (krisis, damnation); but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:36 says, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting (aionios, perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting) life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

Just as Christ's kingdom is perpetual, our "eternal life" is perpetual, and damnation is perpetual. II Peter 1:10,11 says, "brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting (aionios, perpetual, eternal, for ever) kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." Luke 1:33 says, "he (Christ) shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever (aionas, eternal, without end, perpetual, everlasting); and of his kingdom there shall be NO END (telos, termination)." Green's Interlinear says, "of His kingdom there shall never be an end."

If the righteous have life eternal, the condemned have eternal punishment. Mt. 25:41,46 says, "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart fromn me, ye CURSED (kataraomai, doomed), into everlasting (aionios, perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting) fire, prepared for the devil and his angels....And these (the cursed) shall go away into everlasting (aionios, perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting) punishment: but the RIGHTEOUS into life eternal (aionios, perpetual, eternal, for ever, everlasting)."

The Bible is clear. The believer "is not condemned." It is the unbeliever that "is condemned." John 3:18 says, "He that believeth on him is NOT CONDEMNED (krino, damned): but he that believeth not IS CONDEMNED already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Heb. 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he CONDEMNED the world, and became heir of the RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH IS BY FAITH."

> > I love these two verses in Luke 2:10,11. "...which shall be to ALL people..." I really believe it means "all." Past, Present, and Future--including Muslims!

I believe John 3:18. It says, "he that believeth not IS CONDEMNED already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

> > Is "belief" a gift [as the Bible keeps saying that it is] or do you think you are its author?
> > Whom are YOU trusting for your belief unto salvation?

Through listening to preachers and reading the Bible for myself, I believe. Therefore, I am trusting Christ for my salvation.

Rom 10:14 says, "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" A preacher can help one believe in Christ, but he can't convey salvation. Christ has to do that. > > So, God does NOT give everyone the "gift" of belief in this lifetime! "But EVERY MAN in his own order" [1 Cor 15:23]

1Co 15:22,23 is talking about the resurrection of the Body of Christ. It says, "For as in Adam all die, even so IN CHRIST shall all be MADE ALIVE. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

1Co 15:20 says, "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUITS OF THEM THAT SLEPT."

>>>> we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe. The word "specially" in I Tim. 4:10 is "malista," most of all, chiefly.

> > Correct! Which means that those who don't believe NOW will believe later. Physical death claims most people before they become "believers"!

Heb 9:27 says, "it is appointed unto men ONCE TO DIE, but AFTER THIS THE JUDGMENT". Those people in our days that don't believe by their death face the consequences.

> > Marilyn, do you recall that the Lake of Fire is called the second death? Well, guess what, "Death and hell are cast into the lake of fire AND then there is no more lake of fire. "For the lake of fire is the second death." [Rev 20:14] And there is no more first death or even second death: 1 Cor 15:26 says that "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." So, that means there is no more hell, and no more lake of fire when the last bad guy gets out--for He will NOT LOSE ONE"

"Death" and "Hell" in Rev. 6:8 are the False Prophet and Satan. Isa 28:15,18 says, "Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death (the False Prophet), and with hell (Satan) are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves....And your covenant with death (the peace covenant made with the False Prophet, Dan. 9:27) shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell (Satan) shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge (the tsunami stirred up by the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacting the Mediterranean Sea) shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it."

Hab 2:5 Yea also, because he (The Beast, the Tribulation Pope) transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home (John Paul II is the most widely-travelled Pope so far), who enlargeth his desire as hell (Satan), and is as death (the False Prophet), and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people." Rev. 13:7 says, "and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (maybe the UN and UR, or at least, the United Religions).

Both The Beast and the False prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire in Rev. 19:20. It says, "the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before (enopion, in the presence, or sight, of) him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

That Lake of Fire will still be burning after the thousand years are past. Satan will be loosed from his prison for a little season. After that, "the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night (also used figuratively for without intermission) for ever (aionas, perpetually, eternally) and ever (aionon, perpetually, eternally)" (Rev. 20:10).

The last phrase in Greek, "eis tous aionas ton aionon," can be translated "for the ages of the ages." It indicates time without end, forever and ever. The unholy trinity will be in the Lake of Fire permanently, just as the saved will reign with Christ permanently.

Rev. 22:5 says of Heaven, "there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever (aionas, perpetually, eternally) and ever (aionon, perpetually, eternally)."

As in Rev. 20:10, the Greek words "eis tous aionas ton aionon" can be translated "to the ages of the ages." This indicates time without end, forever and ever.

Just as the righteous saved will rule eternally, the condemned lost will exist eternally. If you cut short the existance of the condemned, you cut short the existance of the righteous. That won't work.

1Co 15:49-54 says,"as we (believers) have borne the image of the earthy (Adam), we (believers) shall also bear the image of the heavenly (Christ). Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We (believers) shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP (i.e., when the 2nd Rapture takes place): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY (athanasia, deathlessness). So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL SHALL HAVE PUT ON IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." Agape

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