Pro and Con 1106

Posted 3-15-04

Lightning strikes 'Jesus' on film set

http://www.neises.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5760

As if there wasn't already enough electricity surrounding Mel Gibson's upcoming film on the death of Christ, the actor portraying Jesus was struck by lightning during filming – but miraculously escaped without injury.

Both actor Jim Caviezel, who portrays Jesus in "The Passion of Christ," and assistant director Jan Michelini were struck by lightning while on a remote Italian location several hours from Rome, reports VLife, a supplement to Variety publications, in its October issue. Neither was injured. According to an Associated Press report, the main bolt hit Caviezel while one of its forks hit Michelini's umbrella.

"I'm about a hundred feet away from them," producer Steve McEveety said, according to AP, "when I glance over and see lightning coming out of Caviezel's ears."

What's more, lightning does strike twice. This was the second time lightning has struck the "Passion" set in Italy. In fact, Michelini has earned the nickname of "Lightning Boy" after a previous strike while filming in Italy. According to AP, he suffered light burns to his fingertips resulting from a lightning strike while filming on a hilltop in the Italian town of Matera....

Re: In Italy, lightning stuck the "Passion" set three times

SCOTT ROSS INTERVIEW

Miracles on the Set: Behind the Scenes of 'The Passion' with Jim Caviezel
By Shannon Woodland and Scott Ross
http://cbn.org/700club/features/ScottRoss-Jim_Caviezel_2.asp

...SCOTT ROSS: It's been rumored, I don't know if this is true or not, but as you were filming you were hit with lightning? That's true?

JIM CAVIEZEL: I was lit up like a Christmas tree! I was doing the Sermon on the Mount. I knew it was going to hit me about four seconds before it happened. I thought, "I'm going to get hit." And when it happened, I saw the extras grab the ground.

What they saw was fire coming out the right and left side of my head. Illumination around the whole body. And during the shot they said, "Do you have it on camera?" What happened was Mel had said, "Action" and the cameras were panning to me and here is where this light just flashed. And by the time the cameras got to me, I hear Mel screaming out, "What the heck happened to his hair?" I looked like I went to see Don King's hair stylist.

JIM CAVIEZEL: Five minutes after I got hit, Jon Mikalini, an assistant, walks over and says are you okay? And then he got hit. The difference was that they saw the bolt come down and hit Jon; they didn't see that when I was standing there. All I felt was this giant tremendous slap on my ears and a few seconds of a pink, red static infront of my eyes.

SCOTT ROSS: You had a literal miracle on the set. What do you attribute? You could have died.

JIM CAVIEZEL: Yeah. Or get incinerated. Jon, who came up to me had already been hit. I mean three lightning strikes on one film, one guy getting hit twice, and me obviously getting hit one time. And there were a lot of miracles other than that kind of a miracle.

SCOTT ROSS: On the set?

JIM CAVIEZEL: Well, one of the guys working on the film was a Muslim. He was one of the guards who beat me, and he converted. He had a real big experience there, you know....

I believe Jesus was crucified on Nisan 13, the day before the Passover, Nisan 14 (Lev. 23:5).

The Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, Folio 43a, says, "On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, 'He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.' But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover!"

Incoming email

I just want you to know how much I enjoy your web site.I have a question for you.I have always been taught and believed that no man knows the day or the hour.I tried clicking on the pro and con 301,but it would not load.So could you explain why you believe that we can know the day and hour in which the rapture will happen. Thanks and GOD BLESS.

My reply

Try the following URL to get Pro and Con 301. Remember that it was posted 4-11-99. My projected dates have changed since then.
http://prophecycorner.com/agee/procon301.html

A lot of the early Pro and Cons are not on the smaller pe.net mirror site. The more I add there, the more I have to remove. Everything is on the prophecycorner.com site, thanks to The Study Lamp Group™.

As for why I think we can know when Christ will come for his Bride, Rev. 3:3 says, "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee."

I'm watching. What will we know if we do watch? Turn that verse around. It would then say something like this: that if we do watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and we shall know what hour he will come upon us. I could be wrong, but midnight on Ascension Day (May 17, 2004) sounds like a good time for the Rapture.

It would fulfill all the requirements in The Secret of the Stairs in Song of Solomon 2:10-14. Winter will be over. The latter rain of Nisan will be over and gone. Wild flowers will be in bloom. The turtledoves will have returned to Israel in April. The fig tree will put forth green fruit. The grapes will be blooming and setting fruit. In the Song, the Bridegroom says, "Arise my love, my fair one, and come away."

It's interesting that the Bride sings the "new song" right after the Rapture. See Rev. 5:9. There could be a tie in with the Song of Solomon. The name Solomon means peaceful, and the first Rapture is before the terrible Tribulation begins.

A friend just called and reminded me about these gay marriages that are in the news right now. Think, as in the days of Noah, they will be giving in marriage (Mt. 24:37,38). Wow! I hadn't thought of that. It does tie in to the end times and to both the Pre-Trib and the Pre-Wrath Raptures. The first is as the days of Noah. That kind of wickedness was why the Flood happened. The second is as the days of Lot. Jude 1:7 says, "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Gen. 6: 1-6 ties in. It "came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God (angels, Job 1:6;2:1) saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."

A going after strange flesh preceded the Flood in the days of Noah. Something similar also preceded the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in the days of Lot.

Luke 17:28-30 says, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." This is the Sign of the Son of Man that will be seen when the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place just before God's wrath hits Earth....Agape

Incoming email, Re: FALSE PROPHET AND ANTI CHRIST

A=6,B=12,C=18,D=24, LUSTIGER, CARDNIAL PRIEST. ADDS UP TO 666 ,,,, SCHUESSEL, AUSTRIAN CHANCELLOR ADDS UP TO 666,,,,,, ALL THE POPES i,iii,vi. ect, ect. adds up to 665, the next pope with a sir name starting over at I OR ( ONE) WILL BE 666. POPE JOHN PAUL IS SICK THE NEW POPE WHITH THE NEW NAME ( NOT BEING THE III (THIRD) . BUT BEING A FIRST WILL BE THE FALSE PROPHET.. THE EU ELECTS A NEW PRES. IN JUNE. COULD IT BE SCHUESSEL. IF SO THERE IS THE ANTICHRIST. THE EU IS ALREADY OFFERING A PEACE KEEPING FORCE TO ISREAL. .. YOUR DATE FOR THE RAPTUE OF 2004 COULD BE RIGHT

My reply

I hope so. To me, it looks like the Rapture will take place while Saturn (Heaven) is in Gemini, where the Bride and Bridegroom sit together on the ecliptic in heavenly places. Eph. 2:6 says, "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." Saturn travels the ecliptic and is right where the Bride is sitting in Gemini now. I think Christ's heavenly throne is on Saturn.

In 30 AD, Saturn was also in Gemini when Christ was resurrected, and when he ascended 40 days later. It seems likely that the Bride saints could be raptured on the next Ascension Day, May 17, 2004.

Mars and Saturn will be in close conjunction in Gemini on Ascension Day, May 17, 2004 (Iyar 26, 5764). Bright Venus will be close too. Saturn will be very easy to find in the sky then. By Pentecost, May 27 (Sivan 7), Saturn and Mars will seem to be almost at the same spot. Both are already closer to Earth than usual too. Therefore they are brighter than usual.

I'm not saying that the present Pope is The Beast, for he may not be, but since this Pope is old, it seems possible that he could turn out to be the first beast of Rev. 13. Isa. 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head (6th head of the great red dragon); and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail." The False Prophet, second beast of Rev. 13 is both the 7th head and the tail, because Satan indwells him. After he is deposed, Satan, the tail, will operate on his own as the eighth (Rev. 17:11).

The Pope has just been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, as have others, including Bush and Tony Blair. The winner is to be announced in October. The prize is to be awarded Dec. 10. The Pope might win it, thereby riding on the scene as a prince of peace.

Rev. 6:2 depicts the first beast as a prince of peace riding a white horse. His reign follows the Pre-Trib Rapture, because he blasphemes "them that dwell in heaven" (Rev. 13:6). And "power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (13:7).

That sounds like he will be head of the UN and UR. Verse 8 says, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." All religions of the world will be in the United Religions. This Pope has already been photographed worshiping with pagans. He even kissed the Koran.

Hab. 2:2-6 says, "the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith (Christianity). Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home (he travels a lot and will move to Babylon), who enlargeth his desire as hell (Satan), and is as death (the False Prophet, Rev. 6:8), and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him ALL NATIONS (the UN), and heapeth unto him ALL PEOPLE (the UR): Shall not all these take up a parable against him, and a taunting proverb against him, and say, Woe to him that increaseth that which is not his! how long? (42 months, Rev. 11:3; 13:5) and (i.e., woe) to him (Satan) that ladeth himself with thick clay!" (i.e., indwells the body of clay of the second Beast, the False Prophet, that will rule during the last half of the Tribulation). Agape

The Passion According to Isaiah

By Efraim Goldstein, Jews For Jesus
http://www.cbn.com/SpiritualLife/perspectives/PassionMovie_Isaiah53.asp?option=print

..."Our ancient commentators with one accord noted that the context clearly speaks of God's Anointed One, the Messiah. The Aramaic translation of this chapter, ascribed to Rabbi Jonathan ben Uzziel, a disciple of Hillel who lived early in the second century c.e., begins with the simple and worthy words:

'Behold my servant Messiah shall prosper; he shall be high, and increase, and be exceeding strong: as the house of Israel looked to him through many days, because their countenance was darkened among the peoples, and their complexion beyond the sons of men (Targum Jonathan on Isaiah 53, ad locum).'"

"We find the same interpretation in the Babylonian Talmud:

What is his [the Messiah's] name? The Rabbis said: His name is "the leper scholar," as it is written, "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him a leper, smitten of God, and afflicted." (Sanhedrin 98b)

"Similarly, in an explanation of Ruth 2:14 in the Midrash Rabbah it states:

He is speaking of the King Messiah: "Come hither" draw near to the throne "and dip thy morsel in the vinegar," this refers to the chastisements, as it is said, "But he was wounded for our transgressions, bruised for our iniquities."

"The Zohar, in its interpretation of Isaiah 53, points to the Messiah as well:

There is in the Garden of Eden a palace named the Palace of the Sons of Sickness. This palace the Messiah enters, and He summons every pain and every chastisement of Israel. All of these come and rest upon Him. And had He not thus lightened them upon Himself, there had been no man able to bear Israel's chastisements for the trangression of the law; as it is written, "Surely our sicknesses he has carried." (Zohar II, 212a)

The early sages expected a personal Messiah to fulfill the Isaiah prophecy. No alternative interpretation was applied to this passage until the Middle Ages. And then, a completely different view was presented. This view was popularized by Jewish commentator Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Itzchaki), who lived one thousand years after Jesus....

one Jewish scholar, Claude Montefiore, explained: "Because of the christological interpretation given to the chapter by Christians it is omitted from the series of prophetical lessons for the Deuteronomy Sabbaths … the omission is deliberate and striking."(2) ...

The omission is striking because of what Montefiore does not quite say. It is not simply because of the Christian interpretation that the Isaiah passage is omitted. After all, the services from which it is omitted are not for Christian ears. They are for Jews. What does that imply? The problem is not what Christians think of the passage. The problem (according to those who omitted the passage) is what Jews might think. ...

Views on Isaiah 53 in the Middle Ages

Rashi held the position that the servant passages of Isaiah referred to the collective fate of the nation of Israel rather than a personal Messiah. Some rabbis, such as Ibn Ezra and Kimchi, agreed. However, many other rabbinic sages during this same period and later—including Maimonides—realized the inconsistencies of Rashi's views and would not abandon the original messianic interpretations.

The objections these rabbis put forth to Rashi's view were threefold: First, they showed the consensus of ancient opinion. Second, they pointed out that the text is grammatically in the singular tense throughout. For example, "He was despised and rejected…he was pierced for our transgressions…he was led like a lamb to the slaughter," and so on.

Third, they noted verse 8 of chapter 53. This verse presents some difficulty to those who interpret this passage as referring to Israel. It reads:

By oppression and judgment, he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

Were the Jewish people, God forbid, ever "cut off from the land of the living"? No! God promises that Israel will live forever:...

Likewise, it is impossible to say that "for the transgression of my people he was stricken" since "my people" clearly means the Jewish people. If verse 8 refers to Israel, then are we to read that Israel is stricken for Israel because of Israel's sin? How can the sin-bearer and the sinner be the same? Likewise, how can Israel be the servant, the one who "had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth" (Isaiah 53:9)? Israel is not now, nor ever has been, without sin—the Scriptures are replete with examples of Israel's disobedience....

As you go through the proposed list of people this passage describes, ask yourself: which one was totally blameless throughout his life? Which one died for the sins of others? Which one lives today? What do I think? Am I willing to dismiss Jesus as the one whom the prophet foretold? Then ask yourself again, why is this passage omitted from the regular synagogue readings?

Could it be because countless Jewish followers in Y'shua (Jesus) have come to believe in him after studying this very passage? If you were to survey one hundred Jews who believe Y'shua is the Messiah, you'd get a very different opinion about the identity of this servant in Isaiah. And you would probably find that a large percentage of them found this passage extremely influential in their thinking.

Incoming email, Re: Catholic Teaching/Doctrine vs Biblical Scripture

I am a former Catholic. I left the Catholic Church (a convert to Catholicism 13 years ago) because I could no longer sit in a building full of graven images and partake of communion which was told to be the actual body and blood of my Christ and I could no longer listen to my fellow Catholics chanting the rosary, hailing Mary as the "Queen of Heaven" and asking for her intercession. In short, the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sin and I had to leave.

My question is this; I read your answer to the lady who was worried about what day was truly the sabbath and if she should allow her children to play with friends on the sabbath... And you quoted various scriptures about not being concerned with the old laws, for they died with Christ on the cross. And you said God knows what is in our hearts. My question...Do you think God sees that most Catholic people are only doing what they truly feel is God's will and they honestly think they are serving God?

All I know is it is very difficult to break through the barriers of absolute mind control the Church has over these people--my husband included. I just pray for God to show them, to open their eyes and ears, and trust Him to do it as He promises He will answer sincere prayer. I just feel such sorrow for them because they have been so deceived. Thank you for listening.

My reply

The Rapture may be this spring. Revelation is written as if the Rapture was "at hand." It is "at hand" in Rev. 1:3 and 22:10.

Therefore, I think Jesus' message to Thyatira (meaning dominating female, i.e., the dominating church) is speaking directly to today's Catholic (meaning universal) Church. "THE DEPTHS OF SATAN, AS THEY SPEAK" in Rev. 2:24 seems to have a connection with the Mystery Religion of Babylon that is mentioned in Rev. 17:5. It says, "upon her (the harlot world church's) forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."

I think the Mystery Religion, started by Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz at the unfinished Tower of Babel, will end with the World Church at the finished Tower of Babel in Babylon, Iraq. Here is a UN banner that reveals where the new headquarters of the UN and UR (United Religions) will be built. See the Tower of Babel in the background?

Even the EU has the Tower of Babel on their poster.

Zech. 5:5-11 says, "Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah (the largest wheat measure, i.e., the world church) that goeth forth. He said moreover, THIS IS THEIR RESEMBLANCE THROUGH ALL THE EARTH. And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman (religious group) that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women (two religious groups), and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah (world church) between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar (Babylon, Gen. 11:2; Dan. 1:1,2): and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base" (the foundation of the Tower of Babel).

In Rev. 2:18-29, Jesus says, "unto the angel of the church in Thyatira (dominating female, i.e., the Catholic, universal, Church) write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last (during the Tribulation) to be (at this point, the Tribulation is still future) more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel (meaning Baal is the prince, or unmarried, suggesting to me an apparition called the virgin), which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication (joining), and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her SPACE TO REPENT (I think we are living near the end of this space now) of her fornication (i.e., joining with pagan religions); and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (join) with her into great tribulation (last half of the 7-year Tribulation), except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known THE DEPTHS OF SATAN, AS THEY SPEAK; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already HOLD FAST TILL I COME. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

The word translated "depths" is "bathos." It means "extent" and "deep," but figuratively, it means "mystery" and ties in with the Mystery Religion of Babylon. The enlightened ones finally find out the deep mystery--that they are worshiping the so-called angel of light, Lucifer, who is Satan. The "depths of Satan, as they speak" could refer to demon-possession. However, the word "lego," translated "speak," properly means to "lay forth," to relate, or lay it out in a systematic set discourse. It fits the initiate in the mysteries who is instructed anew at each new level.

The 8-rayed Sun Disk and central Obelisk just outside St. Peter's Cathedral at the Vatican show that someone was very much into the Mystery Religion when that was laid out.

II Cor. 11:14 says, "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."

Since the Mystery Religion worshipping the sun god (actually Satan, as "an angel of light") is a secret society, ordinary church goers probably know nothing about it, and this is fortunate for them. As long as they have accepted Christ as their own personal Saviour, they are the ones that can just hold fast until Christ comes.

Rev. 18:4 says, "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her (the harlot world church), my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." I think that represents the calling out of the Tribulation saints at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, just before God's Wrath falls on unbelievers left on Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:2-5).

Zech. 5:4 says, "I will bring it (the curse, the asteroid of Rev. 8:10) forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Tribulation Pope, who claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

Rev. 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone (representing the asteroid) like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." Right now, she can be found. Soldiers are billeted in Saddam's palace that overlooks Babylon. Agape

An Open Letter to Mel Gibson from a Jew for Jesus

By Susan Perlman, Jews for Jesus
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/perspectives/PassionMovie_letter_jews.asp?option=print

...He claimed to be the Messiah:

See his conversation with a woman: "The woman said, 'I know that Messiah' (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.' Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he" (John 4:25,26).

He claimed he could forgive people of their sins:

See his conversation with a paralyzed man: "Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you" (Matthew 9:2).

He claimed he had the same eternal nature and name as the Almighty:

See his conversation with Jewish leaders: "Then the Jewish leaders said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:57-8)....

'THE PASSION' UNLEASHED Creator of film's score 'battled with Satan'

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37348

2-28-04 - Musician: 'He was in my room a lot' during movie production

...I have realized something very interesting. I had never before subscribed to the idea that maybe Satan is a real person, but I can attest that he was in my room a lot and I know that he hit everyone on this production."

Debney said that the battle he felt with Satan as he wrote the music became "really personal between us."

He went on to say, "I had all these computers and synthesizers in my studio and the hard drives would go down and the digital picture that lives on the computer with the music would just freeze on his [Satan's] face. Then the volume would go to ten and it would happen all the time.

"The first time it happened, it scared me," Debney said. "Once I got over the initial shock of that, I learned to work around it and learned to reboot the computers and so I would start talking to him.

"There was one day when I had been on the movie for about four months when it really became bad that day and a lot of things that were causing doubt in me and I had had enough. The computers froze for about the tenth time that day and it was about nine o'clock at night and so I got really mad, and I told Satan to manifest himself and I said, 'Let's go out into the parking lot and let's go.' It was a sea change in me. I knew that this was war. I am not a physical person, but I was really angry on this occasion....

   Pro and Con 1107   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2004, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 3-15-04