Pro and Con 1110

Posted 8-1-04

Incoming email, Re: 1998

3-21-04 - I don't even pretend to understand what this guy does; I just look over his shoulder in awe.

Anyway, I thought the following tidbit would be of interest to you. Agape
Section D: - Genesis 1:1 as a recreational object

It comes as something of a surprise to find that the word CVs display features that appear designed to catch the eye of those interested in recreational mathematics. Two examples will suffice.

The resilience of word CVs 1 to 5

These words form what might be termed the 'supernatural component' of the statement. Their sum is 1998 which divides 999/999 on word boundaries (see Table 3). When written in reverse, the sum of these 5 numbers is still 1998 - as it is when the same cyclic permutation is applied to the digits of the individual values (rows 2 and 3), or to the block of five (rows 4 and 5), thus:

My reply, Re: I think I can translate the "untranslatable" - (Thank you Lord Jesus Christ. Amen)

Thanks, thanks, thanks. I'm so glad you sent me this URL. I'm excited.

When "Arbiters of Truth," by Vernon Jenkins, opened, I soon saw this image:

Then I read these words, "the central word (necessary to sustain the grammar) is untranslatable", and these, "the central word - the untranslatable (aleph, tau) comprising the first and last letters of the same alphabet."

Wow! The central Hebrew word is Aleph and Tau, the first and last letters of the Hebrew alphabet. Like a bolt out of the blue, it hit me that it means that God the Creator is THE FIRST AND THE LAST. He is both YHWH of the Old Testament AND YESHUA HaMASHIACH, JESUS CHRIST, of the New Testament.

What if Gen. 1:1 could be translated "In the beginning God, the first and the last, created the heavens and the earth."

In verse 13 of the last chapter of the Bible, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega (the first and last letters of the Greek alphabet), the beginning and the end, THE FIRST AND THE LAST." In v. 16, he said, "I am the root (YHWH) and the offspring (Yeshua/Jesus) of David."

He is the Creator. John 1:1-3 says, "IN THE BEGINNING was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.."

Heb. 1:1 says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners SPAKE IN TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS SPOKEN unto us by (en,in) his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS."


In Eph. 3:8,9, Paul said, "Unto this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of THE MYSTERY, which from THE BEGINNING of the world HATH BEEN HID IN GOD, WHO CREATED ALL THINGS BY JESUS CHRIST."

Col. 1:12-17 says, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of HIS DEAR SON: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: WHO IS THE IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD, the firstborn of every creature: For BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, and for him: And HE IS BEFORE ALL THINGS, AND BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST."

The Creator of Gen. 1:1, God (Elohim) is both YHWH and Jesus Christ, the first and the last, as the first and last Hebrew letters Aleph and Tau tell us.

In Rev. 1:8, Jesus said, "I am Alpha and Omega (the first and last Greek letters), the BEGINNING AND THE ENDING, saith the Lord, which is (at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), THE ALMIGHTY."

Isa. 40:28 says, "Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that THE EVERLASTING GOD, THE LORD (YHWH), THE CREATOR OF THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding."

Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I AM THE FIRST (YHWH King of Israel), AND I AM THE LAST (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer; i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ); and beside me there is no God."

Rev. 4:11 says, "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for THOU HAST CREATED ALL THINGS, and for thy pleasure they are and were created."

No wonder Isa. 9:6 says, "For unto us a child (inheriting his human nature from his mother) is born, unto us a son is given (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace."

Gen. 1:1 ties in with Rev. 10:6. It says, "And sware by HIM THAT LIVETH FOR EVER, WHO CREATED HEAVEN, and the things that therein are, AND THE EARTH, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein".

Phil. 2:8,9 says of Jesus Christ, "being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him A NAME WHICH IS ABOVE EVERY NAME."

Jesus Christ is God. He is both the FIRST and the LAST, and we were actually told this in the first and last books of the Bible. God doesn't miss a trick.

I agree with Vernon Jenkins, who wrote "Arbiters of Truth," "the Bible is no ordinary book. It claims that our Creator is its Author." Agape

Astronomy Day features planetary lineup

Look up in the sky from now until June and you will be treated to sights not seen again until 2040....

Throughout most of April and May, the five brightest planets -- Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn -- will cluster together in the western sky at dusk. For several weeks these five worlds, all visible to the unaided eye, will form and reform new patterns as they move against the background stars -- a slow-motion line dance that will be fascinating to watch as it progresses.

"Take the time to check this out," advises Alan MacRobert, a senior editor at SKY & TELESCOPE magazine. "All you need to do is note where the Sun sets, then watch that general area of the sky as twilight darkens." Several evenings during the seven-week-long display hold the promise of especially attractive arrangements. For example, on April 17th all five planets, together with a thin crescent Moon, organize themselves into an evenly spaced line that begins near the western horizon and stretches upward a third of the way across the sky. On May 14th they'll be clustered within a circle only 33 degrees across. The dance culminates on June 3rd with a breathtakingly close pairing of Venus and Jupiter, the two brightest planets.

A Gathering of Planets

The five brightest planets are gathering in the evening sky for a rare after-dark display.

The show begins on March 22nd at sundown. Find a place where you can see the western horizon, and before the sky fades completely black, start looking for Mercury. It's that bright "star" shining through the rosy glow of the setting Sun. Can't find it? Use the Moon as a guide: On March 22nd Mercury will lie directly below the crescent Moon. Simple!

From Mercury, trace an imaginary line straight up. In order you'll see brilliant Venus, dimmer red Mars, and yellow Saturn. Behind your back hovers Jupiter, brighter than all the others except Venus....

(Saturn is in Gemini)

By the end of March, Mercury will be sinking back into the glare of the Sun, and soon thereafter the evening planet count will drop from five to four. Four is still a lot of planets. Jupiter, Saturn, Mars and Venus are going to be visible for months. In fact, they will gather even closer together in late April and May, and put on another wonderful show....

Two very bright comets in April/May 2004

Robert Bast, 2-17-04

"Two newly discovered comet may outshine most stars in the sky by May. Designated Comet C/2002 T7 (LINEAR), the comet was discovered in 2002 October by project LINEAR. Many reports already place the comet as brighter than magnitude 7, meaning that it can now be seen with binoculars. Reports also indicate the comet already has a visible tail nearly the length of a full Moon. Since predicting the future brightness of comets is a very tricky business, there remains the possibility that T7 might never become visible to the unaided eye.

Alternatively, another comet, C/2001 Q4 (NEAT), may also reach naked eye visibility at nearly the same time, MAKING 2004 APRIL AND MAY TWO OF THE BUSIEST BRIGHT-COMET MONTHS IN CENTURIES."

My comment

Maybe they herald the Rapture on Ascension Day, May 17, 2004.

The closest approach of comet C/2001 Q4 NEAT to the Earth will be May 7. The closest approach to the Sun will be May 15 in Cancer.

C/2002 T7 LINEAR's closest approach to the Sun will be April 23 in Pisces. It has the potential for "Great" status during May. Closest approach to the Earth will be May 19. It may join NEAT for a double comet show in the evening about May 18, 2004.

More on the comets

Visibility conditions at 25° S, 25° N and 50° N for the comets C/2001 Q4 (NEAT) & C/2002 T7 (LINEAR) during their peak brightness around May 2004

there is one interval, May 4 to 23, that incorporates the times of greatest brilliance for both comets and even wastes no time: From 25° South NEAT can be seen, often high, in dark skies every evening, and LINEAR can be followed first in the morning and then evening skies around its peak brilliance from May 15 to 22.

Here is YourSky on Ascension Day, May 17, 2004

Jupiter is in Leo. Mars and Saturn are in close conjunction in Gemini. Venus is nearby, in Taurus. Mercury is in Pisces.

I think the Rapture will take place while Saturn in in Gemini. These verses are interesting when I think of Saturn in Gemini at the time of the Rapture.

Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ."

Eph. 1:20: "Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places."

Eph. 2:6: "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." In Gemini, the Bride and Bridegroom are sitting together in heavenly places on the ecliptic. I think Saturn is Heaven. It is in Gemini now, and it travels the ecliptic.

The Rapture is as the days of Noah. Saturn was in Gemini during the Flood. It was also in Gemini at the time of the Crucifixion, Resurrection, Ascension and Pentecost in 30 AD.

Eph. 3:10: "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God."

Incoming email

The Mystery Of Sedna Grows, By Leigh Dayton, 3-20-4

...Caltech's Associate Professor Brown said one thing was certain, Sedna was too small to be a planet. At a mere 1100 miles across, Sedna is smaller than Pluto. And at 1413 miles in diameter, Pluto is the tiniest member of our solar system....

Incoming email, Re: Shroud of Turin

Thanks Marilyn for sending me a copy of those other two articles. I tried looking for them myself but couldn't find them. Donna

Incoming email

From: Donna Danna

Re: THANKS ELLEN GONZALEZ & MARY HANSEN -- THE SHROUD OF TURIN, 3-16-04 From: Donna Danna, To: John Tng (Five Doves site), Cc: Marilyn Agee


Dear Ellen & Mary,
Thanks for being on the alert and using Bible scriptures to show that a napkin was about Jesus' face and linen clothes were wound around Jesus' body for his burial in the tomb which proves the Shroud of Turin could not have been Jesus' burial cloth. I was looking at the evidence of the negative of the Shroud of Turin possibly showing white hair matching the description of Jesus' white hair in Rev. 1:14, and I was not thinking at all about what Jesus' body actually was buried in according to the scriptures that both you ladies pointed out in your posts at and

I wouldn't want to intentionally lead anyone astray, and greatly appreciate your pointing out where I made an error. God bless you both, Donna

My reply

Part 4 of the "Shroud Controversy Explained, By Fr. William P. Saunders, was published today (3/18/04).

Saunders said, "In all, the preponderance of evidence appears to support the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin as the burial cloth of our Lord."

On:, Ellen Gonzalez wrote:
> > John 19:40 "Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury." Strongs word #3608 is othonion, which is translated as a linen bandage, or strips. The same word is also used in Luke 24:12, and John 20:5-7. The Bible also uses the word wound to describe how the linen clothes were wrapped around Jesus's body. This word in Strongs is deo, #1210, a verb meaning to bind, wrap, tie, or wind. A single piece of cloth such as the shroud is, would not fit this biblical description of linen strips wrapped tightly around a body.

I have wondered about windings ever since I first heard of the Shroud of Turin. However, the negative picture seemingly scorched into just the surface fibers seems quite miraculous. This phenomenon doesn't seem to happen with any other body prepared for burial, just this one. We only have one shroud, the Shroud of Turin, and one face cloth, the Sudarium of Oviedo. They obviously go together for both have type AB bloodstains on them. Let's examine the clues very carefully.

There was more than one cloth. The winding of cloth strips to which spices were applied would not necessarily preclude another cloth strip being put on the stone, the body laid on it, and the remaining half spread over the front of the body.

The women were bringing more spices on Sunday. Why did they think more were necessary? Did they know what had already been done and still brought more spices? and why didn't they bring more cloth strips too?

People assume that the negative picture would have been made when Jesus arose from the dead, but we don't know that for a fact. It seems possible that such a picture could have been made if these cloth strips were put over the body at any time, maybe to carry it to the tomb. With God, anything is possible.

Let's look at the scriptures again. Mt. 27:59-61 says, "when Joseph had taken the body, HE WRAPPED IT IN A CLEAN LINEN CLOTH , And laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed. And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre."

In the Greek, the word translated "wrapped" is "entulisso." Strong's has to twist; probably akin to G1507, hi-lis'-so, to coil or wrap: - roll together); to entwine, that is, wind up in: - wrap in (together). For "helisso," Young's has to roll or fold up. It is used in Heb. 1:12, "as a vesture shalt thou FOLD THEM UP." The word "entulisso" is only used 4 times in scripture. It is translated as "wrapped" in Mt. 27:59, Luke 23:53 and John 20:7 and as "wrapped together" in John 20:7.

Mark 15:46,47 says that Joseph "bought fine linen, and took him down, and WRAPPED HIM IN THE LINEN, and laid him in a sepulchre which was hewn out of a rock, and rolled a stone unto the door of the sepulchre. And Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses beheld where he was laid." In Mark 15:46, the word translated "wrapped him in" is "eneileo," to enwrap: - wrap in. This word is only used in this verse.

Luke 23:53-56 says that Joseph "took it down, and WRAPPED IT IN LINEN, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment."

Luke 24:12 says, "Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass." The word translated "laid" is "keimai; to lie OUTSTRETCHED (literally or figuratively): - be (appointed, laid up, made, set), lay, lie.

The Hebraic-Roots Version of Luke 23:53 says, "he took it down and wrapped it in A SHROUD OF LINEN CLOTH." Green's Interlinear translates "sindoni" as "in a linen cloth." Strong's says that sindone is of uncertain (perhaps foreign) origin. Young's has "Fine linen cloth." Maybe Joseph purchased it from undertakers as a shroud. Our English word "wrap" means to cover, esp. by winding OR FOLDING." It can mean a single turn or fold.

John 19:38-40 says, "Joseph of Arimathaea...came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury." The word translated "wound" is "deo," a primary verb; to bind (in various applications, literally or figuratively): - bind, be in bonds, knit, tie, wind. It is used 44 times, but is only translated "wound" in John 19:40. It is translated "bound" 28 times.

John 11:44 says of Lazarus, "he that was dead came forth, BOUND HAND AND FOOT WITH GRAVECLOTHES (keiria, of uncertain affinity, a swathe, winding sheet, graveclothes): and his face was bound about with a napkin (soudarion, of Latin origin; a SUDARIUM face cloth, sweat cloth, towel for wiping the perspiration from the face, or binding the face of a corpse: - handerchief, napkin). Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go." Lazarus, and Jesus, may have had strips of cloth binding their wrists and ankles together. It doesn't say that Lazarus was all wrapped up like a mummy. He was bound hand and foot.

John 20:7 says of Christ, "the napkin (soudarion, a SUDARIUM), that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together (entulisso, to entwine, that is, wind up in: - wrap in [together]) in a place by itself."

Thus, we have reason to think the Sudarium of Oviedo might just be the "soudarion" that was folded in a place by itself in Jesus' tomb. It has type AB blood on it. So does the Shroud of Turin. What we think of as indicating windings may be folds. The Shroud of Turin was folded back over the body. The Sudarium of Oviedo was folded.

Look at John 20:7 in these versions:

(WNT) "and the towel, which had been placed over the face of Jesus, not lying with the cloths, but FOLDED up and put by itself."

(YLT) "and the napkin that was upon his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but apart, having been FOLDED up, in one place."

I can't rule either of them out. Can you? If they were not genuine, why would they have been saved? Are other grave clothes saved? Agape

PS: I found these interesting:
Shroud of Turin or Carbon 14
by Doug Yurchey, 2002

...Everything about the Shroud rings true: It is the material used for burial shrouds 2000 years ago in the area of the Holy Land. There is a wound indicated in the chest area. There is the exact number of lashes from a whipping on the back as stated in the Bible. Religious portraits of stigmata are not accurate when they show wounds in the palm of the hands. Nails, creating the wounds in the palms, could not hold the body on the cross. Tests on cadavers prove that bones in the hand are not strong enough to sustain a body's weight. Nails rip through hand bones and the body falls. On the Shroud, the wounds are at the wrist which can sustain the weight of a body. A religious forger, making a fraudulent Shroud would have placed the wounds in the palms...not at the wrists. The crown of thorns was not a round wreath as we also see in religious portrayals, but a hat of thorns. The trails of blood on Turin's burial cloth are sensible; they conform to the flow of gravity....

Some say the image captures the moment of Christ's resurrection. Others say that the image was a scorching emanating out due to RADIATION. There were reports that after the Hiroshima blast, pieces of glass were found with negative images of people's faces. These were people who had their faces near windows when the atomic bomb exploded. Radiation does cause negative imprinting....
Pollen traces suggest that Shroud of Turin originated before eighth century, near Jerusalem -- July 3, 1999 - AP

...The shroud contains pollen grains and the image of a crucified man, as well as faint images of plants.

Analysis of the floral images, and a separate analysis of the pollen grains by another botanist, Uri Baruch, identified a combination of plant species that could be found only in March and April in the region of Jerusalem, Danin said. Danin identified a high density of pollen of the tumbleweed Gundelia tournefortii. The analysis also found the bean caper Zygophyllum dumosum. The two species coexist in a limited area, Danin said.

"This combination of flowers can be found in only one region of the world," he said. "The evidence clearly points to a floral grouping from the area surrounding Jerusalem."

An image of the Gundelia tournefortii can be seen near the image of the man's shoulder. Some experts have suggested that the plant was used for the "crown of thorns."

Two pollen grains of the species were also found on the Sudarium of Oviedo, believed to be the burial face cloth of Jesus.

Danin, who has done extensive study on plants in Jerusalem, said the pollen grains are native to the Gaza Strip....
Early reports

Reports of Jesus's burial shroud have been circulating since the early Middle Ages, but none have been substantiated, nor can any of the objects be identified as the modern Shroud of Turin.

According to Eusebius of Caesarea, King Abgarus of Edessa wrote to Jesus in 30 AD, asking him to come cure him of an illness. Instead, the apostle Thaddaeus is said to have come, bearing a cloth with the image of Jesus (the "Image of Edessa", or Mandylion), at which time the king was miraculously healed....

Coins placed on both eyes, the right one identified as a type of Roman copper coins produced in 29 and 30 AD in Jerusalem. In 1997, André Marion and Anne-Laure Courage claimed to be able to make out Greek and Latin letters near the face: on the right side: ?S ??? ("?" supposedly with mistake from "??" opsi = face; "S???" = shadow) on the left side: INSCE (supposedly from INSCENDAT, he may have climbed) and NAZARENUS down: ?S?? (Jesou, of Jesus)....

   Pro and Con 1111   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2004, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 8-1-04