Pro and Con 1120

Posted 5-3-04

When will the 2300-day Shortened Tribulation begin and end?

By Marilyn Agee

Dan. 8:13,14, 23-26 says, "HOW LONG shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (1st half of Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib, II Thess. 2:4), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot (i.e., to the end of the shortened Tribulation)? And he said unto me, Unto TWO THOUSAND AND THREE HUNDRED DAYS (lit., evenings and mornings); THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED....when the transgressors are come to the full (during the Tribulation), a king (probably leader of Israel) of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences ('he spake as a dragon', i.e., he will be Satan-possessed) shall stand up (come to full power Mid-Trib). And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power (by Satan's): and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and BY PEACE SHALL DESTROY MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Christ); but he shall be BROKEN WITHOUT HAND (i.e., blinded in right eye, Zech. 11:17, on the 2300th day of the Tribulation). And the vision of the evening and the morning (i.e., of the 2300 days) which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

I think the correct translation is 2300 days, not 1150 days, as some say. In Josephus' Wars I. I. I, Antiochus Epiphanes "spoiled the temple, and put a stop to the constant practice of offering a daily sacrifice of expiation for THREE YEARS AND SIX MONTHS." This is a type of the False Prophet desecrating the temple Mid-Trib and stopping the daily sacrifice during the last half of the 7-year Tribulation (the 70th week of Dan. 9:27).

It is the last 3.5-year period of the Tribulation that is to be shortened. Mt. 24:15 is Mid-Trib. Then in verses 21 and 22, we find out that this final period is to be shortened or no flesh would be saved.

Dan. 8:14 shows us how many days are cut off--220 days. Therefore, 1260 + 1040 = 2300 days for the shortened Tribulation.

I think the Jewish Year that starts on the 2300th day has to be a Leap Year, because there are 7 months between the Day of Destruction on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on the beginning of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Years, the following Nisan 1.

The years 5771 (2010/2011) and 5774 (2013/2014) are Leap Years within the 48-year generation from the Six-Day War in 1967. Counting back 2300 days from Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, in 5771 and 5774 ends on Sivan 3, 5764 (May 23, 2004) or Sivan 3, 5766 (May 30, 2006).

Those both seem to be possible Pre-Trib Rapture dates. However, only on May 23, 2004 is Saturn in Gemini, which I think is the Rapture sign. I'm hoping Sunday, May 23, 2004 is our Rapture day and the beginning of the Tribulation. It looks like at least two comets will be visible from Earth at that time.

Maybe the 2300-day shortened Tribulation will begin on May 23, 2004 and end on Sept. 9, 2010. That seems most likely.

Mt. Ararat

http://www.gesource.ac.uk/worldguide/html/image_2134.html

I noticed two asteroid impact basins on Mt. Ararat. Maybe the black hole in the previous picture I found was caused by a meteorite after all. Gas mist escapes from this volcano all the time. It last erupted in 1840. It is the highest peak in Europe, 17,020 ft. high.
---
The Persians called the mountain Kuhinuh or Noah's Mountain.
http://www.everestnews.com/ararat.htm

Noah's Ark To Be Found on Mount Ararat

07/17/03
http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/10514_ark.html?3

American researcher Robert Ballard is determined to track down Noah's Ark... Mount Ararat - a snow-mist capped VOLCANIC CONE...

Did Noah Go Through Flood in Wooden Submarine?

10/30/03

http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/377/11181_noah.html

A Russian expedition managed to discover remains of the legendary ark Within the past years, results of aero and space photography have proved that there is some wooden construction in the glacier on the top of the Ararat mountain. This huge construction looks very much like an ark....

...Ararat is a volcanic mountain and evolves gas at a very high altitude....

A "FIRST TO OCCUR...EVER" SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS A SIGN I MISSED

APOD

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

...So, how rare was Titan's transit of the Crab? While Saturn itself passes within a few degrees of the Crab Nebula every 30 years, the next similar transit is reportedly due in 2267. And since the stellar explosion which gave birth to the Crab was seen in 1054, the 2003 Titan transit may have been the FIRST TO OCCUR ... EVER.

Eyes to the sky for a celestial fiesta

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1504&ncid=1504&e=10&u=/afp/20040427/ts_afp/space_astronomy_040427064827

4-27-04...The show kicks off on Tuesday May 4 with a total lunar eclipse, which occurs when the Moon, the Sun and Earth are all in alignment....

The Moon will slide into the cone of shadow of the Earth cast by the Sun but it will not become invisible, for it will be tinged by residual sunlight that is deflected by Earth's atmosphere.

As most of this light is in the red part of the spectrum, the Moon often turns coppery, orange or even brown....

Comet NEAT will be at its closest on May 6, coming within 48,020,000 kilometers (30,013,000 miles) of Earth, while LINEAR's nearest approach will be on May 19, at 39,790,000 kms (24,870,000 miles)....

Incoming email, Re: Olive trees/ Cherubim Rev. 11/Zech. 4

Please supply the Ellen G. White Quote(s) that support your claim that the Olive trees in Zech. 4 are Cherubim. The exact references is needed. Great Controversy says they are the Old & New Testaments.

My reply

You must have me mixed up with someone else.

1. I'm Baptist, not Seventh-Day Adventist.
2. I don't ever go by what Ellen G. White said.
3. I didn't "claim that the Olive trees in Zech. 4 are Cherubim."
4. I go by the Bible. The two olive trees are Moses and Elijah.

According to Zech. 4:14, "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Moses and Elijah stood by YHWH Yahshua, Jesus Christ, the first and the last, THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH at his transfiguration.

Mt. 17:2,3 says that Jesus "was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

Mark 9:3,4 says, "his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses."

The same two witnesses for the Lord of the whole earth, Moses and Elijah, "are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before THE GOD OF THE EARTH" in Rev. 11:4.

> > Great Controversy says they are the Old & New Testaments.

That's a far cry from the truth. The New Testament hadn't even been written at the time of the Transfiguration. Agape

Incoming email, Re: Pre-Trib

The Pre-Tribulational Coming of Christ—A Reversal of Divine Order
by Robert Isherwood

It is a sad but historic fact that men, even truly regenerate men, have down the long centuries of the Church’s history possessed a strange tendency for reversing divine order.

Had we time and space at our disposal we could prove demonstrably, that in every area of divine revelation, whether ecclesiastical, doctrinal or eschatalogical, men have altered or reversed things about which God has spoken in the clearest possible terms.

It is with the eschatalogical aspect of divine revelation that we are concerned in this short article. We do not believe for one moment that the Lord’s Coming referred to by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 antedates the coming in Matthew chapter 24; this teaching we abandoned years ago through the helpful and scriptural writings of Dr. S. P. Tregelles and Mr. B. W. Newton.

We consider the utterance of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:29-30 to be basic and fundamental to a clear understanding of the Lord’s Coming; upon this foundation similar teaching by Paul and others is firmly placed.

It is at this point that we notice man’s reversal of divine order in relation to His Coming. It has been and is strenuously asserted by many dear fellow believers, that Paul teaches in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 a Coming that is quite different from the Coming referred to by the Lord in the Olivet discourse, and which precedes it by some seven years. Consciously or unconsciously believers have by this assertion reversed divine order.

We agree that contextually there is a great deal of difference between circumstances of the Coming in Matthew 24 and those of 1 Thessalonians 4, but this gives us no warrant for dividing the two passages to make them teach two different Comings.

In Matthew 24 the rejected King instructs his followers about conditions upon the earth, and signs in the heavens prior to His return, teaching which is both ethnic and cosmic. This teaching was delivered to those, who with the Lord had left the desolate “house” of Israel, and who would be His witnesses until the end of the age.

In what is commonly called the “Great Commission” in Matthew 28, the Lord said to the eleven, that those who through their instrumentality would believe and be baptized, would also be taught to “observe” ALL things whatsoever I have commanded you, and this condition of things would obtain until the end of the age.

It is clear that the “ALL THINGS” commanded by the Lord would, in the very nature of the case, include the teaching of the Lord in the Olivet discourse. Therefore to delete the teaching of the Lord on this occasion, as not applicable to saints of the present dispensation, is to do violence to the words of the risen Christ. The “ALL THINGS” referred to by the Lord in Matthew 28: 20 must be taken in an absolute sense.

This has presented a difficulty to brethren of the pre-tribulation school and to overcome this some have resorted to the unscriptural expedient of relegating the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20, to a future day to be fulfilled by “Jewish believers” after the rapture of the Church.

When confronted with this strange teaching recently, we checked with the late Mr. William Kelly, who in his day was a devoted dispensationalist, and were agreeably surprised to find that without hesitation he considered it to be the Lord’s mandate for the Church in the present age.

In 1 Thess. 4 Paul writes about the Lord’s Coming from a different standpoint and with a different end in view. The end in view in the discourse delivered by the Lord in Matthew 24 is WATCHFULNESS (v. 42), but the end in view in 1 Thessalonians 4 is COMFORT (v. 18).

The question in the minds of some believers of Thessalonica was “what will happen to our loved ones who have died in faith when the Lord returns ?“ Paul had a ready answer for them which was designed to minister comfort to their souls. In verse 15 the apostle prefaces his remarks with the words “for this we say unto you by the Word of the Lord clearly indicating he was about to speak of something which he had received directly from the Lord by revelation.

It is here that our good brethren who differ from us make a mistake. It is supposed, by the words above referred to, that God was giving Paul a revelation of a coming which antidates the Coming referred to by the Lord in the Gospels, and sometimes spoken of as “the secret rapture of the Church”. Such teaching is however a reversal of divine order when we consider that the Lord Himself said His Coming would be “immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days”, Matthew 24:29-30.

What Paul is communicating to the Thessalonian believers is, that when the Lord does return those who are alive at the time will not prevent (lit, go before) them which are asleep, and what is more the dead in Christ shall rise first. Clearly then the revelation that Paul received by “the word of the Lord” does not concern a Coming of different time and order from that already taught in the gospels, but a revelation concerning the order of the rising when the Lord does come, an order which we could not learn from the gospels alone.

May the Lord enable us to preserve a balance in our study and teaching of the Word of God, so that we shall not be guilty of wresting the scriptures and reversing orders which are divine.

My reply

I disagree with Robert Isherwood. To me, there are two Raptures, the Pre-Trib Rapture on the first day of the 2300-day Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14) and the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the last day of the 2300. Here's why I believe this way.

First, why have a 2300-day Tribulation? Dan. 8:13,14,26 says, "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (first half of Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot (last half of Tribulation, but shortened, Mt. 24:21,22)? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days (lit., evenings and mornings); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.... And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

The Pre-Trib Rapture is the FIRST "TRUMP OF GOD." I Thess. 4:16,17 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a SHOUT, with the VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD (THE FIRST TRUMP), and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The Pre-Wrath Rapture is "THE LAST TRUMP." I Cor. 15:51,52 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The type is in Nu. 10:1-4. It says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS. And when they shall blow with them (BOTH, i.e., at the last trump), ALL THE ASSEMBLY shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (i.e., elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

The FIRST TRUMP is the Pre-Trib Rapture. Rev. 4:1-5 says, "I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the FIRST VOICE WHICH I HEARD WAS AS IT WERE OF A TRUMPET (i.e., the first trump) talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne....And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw FOUR AND TWENTY ELDERS sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads CROWNS of gold. And out of the throne proceeded LIGHTNINGS and THUNDERINGS and VOICES."

John is one of the 24 elders, the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles. When John is caught up, the other 23 elders are caught up, and the wise Philadelphian virgins are caught up too. Heb. 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they (Old Testament saints) without us should not be made perfect." Both Old Testament and New Testament saints are caught up at the FIRST TRUMP.

Nu. 10:4 said, "And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (elders and apostles), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." When that FIRST TRUMP sounds, there are "THUNDERINGS." We find "THE NOISE OF THUNDER" at the beginning of the Tribulation in Rev. 6:1, so the FIRST TRUMP calls the saints up to Heaven on the first day of the 2300-day shortened Tribulation.

After the first Rapture, no thunder is heard until the second Rapture. We hear thunder at Rev. 4:5, 6:1 (first trump) and 14:2 (last trump).

THUNDER AT THE FIRST TRUMP RAPTURE

Rev. 4:1,5 says, "I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice (Christ's) which I heard (in Rev. 1:10) was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.... And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and THUNDERINGS and voices."

THUNDER AT THE LAST TRUMP RAPTURE

Rev. 7:14 says, "And he said to me, These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION (including the 144,000), and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Rev. 14:2,3 says, "I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a GREAT THUNDER: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps." These are the 144,000 "which were redeemed from the earth." They are caught up at the LAST TRUMP, THE PRE-WRATH RAPTURE.

Thunder is also heard in Rev. 10:3,4; 8:5; 11:19; 16:18. Let's see when these thunders are heard.

Rev. 10:2-4 takes place at the end of the shortened Tribulation. It says, "he (Christ) had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven THUNDERS uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not." These 7 thunders sound between the 6th and 7th trumpets.

Rev. 8:5 says, "the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and THUNDERINGS, and lightnings, and an earthquake." This takes place at the end of the shortened Tribulation, when the 7 trumpets are about to sound.

Rev. 11:19 says, "the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and THUNDERINGS, and an earthquake, and great hail." This takes place after all the saints are in Heaven getting their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Rev. 16:18 says, "there were voices, and THUNDERS, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great." This takes place on the last day of the shortened Tribulation.

There is no thunder between the days of the two Raptures, between the first trump on the first day of the 2300-day Tribulation and the last trump on the last day of the 2300 days.

In Mt. 24:30, the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky on the last day of the 2300-day Tribulation. It is Christ's Coronation Day, and the Day of God's Wrath. Between the 6th and 7th seals, Rev. 6:14-17 says, "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (the Sign of the Son of Man), and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath (the 2300th day of the Tribulation) is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

On the 2300th day, Jesus Christ "shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET (the first trumpet of Nu. 10:1-4 sounds again calling all the saints in Heaven to the general assembly in Heaven, Heb. 12:23), and they shall gather together his elect (those that were caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture on the first of the 2300 days) from the four winds, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER" (Mt. 24:31). There is no Rapture in Mt. 24:31. This gathering is in Heaven.

Mark 13:27 shows us that the Pre-Wrath Rapture comes at that same time. It says, "And then (when they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN." This is when the second trumpet of Nu. 10:1-4 sounds for the first time.

Actually, this is when both those silver trumpets sound. The first calls the saints in Heaven to the general assembly in Heaven. The second calls the Tribulation saints up from Earth. This is the last trump, the last Rapture.

Heb. 12:22-24 tells us about this assembly in Heaven. It says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant".

All the just men are made perfect at the last trump (I Cor. 15:51,52). That's when we actually become immortal. Verse 53 says, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

The day of the first trump is a day of thunder. It is the first of the 2300 days. The day of the sounding again of that same trumpet is the last of the 2300 days. It gathers those already in Heaven to the general assembly in Heaven when Christ is to be crowned King of kings and Lord of lords.

The sounding of the last trump is on that same day, the last of the 2300 days. It gathers the Tribulation saints to the Coronation of Christ at the general assembly in Heaven on the Day of the Lord that begins Christ's millennial reign. Therefore, the last day of the 2300 days is the first day of the next 1000 years.

The Day of the Lord, the first day of the Millennium, is on the Feast of Trumpets. Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." Hos. 9:5,6 says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the feast of the LORD? For, lo, they are gone because of destruction."

Joel 1:14,15 says, "Sanctify ye a fast (i.e., examine yourselves and repent, these are the Days of Awe, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, through Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly (Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets), gather the ELDERS and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD, Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."

Hosea 5:7 says, "They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a month (chodesh, new moon, i.e., Tishri 1) devour them with their portions."

Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble (Gog's army will attack Israel that day): for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

Joel 2:15-21 says, "Blow the TRUMPET (it's the Feast of Trumpets) in Zion, sanctify a fast (i.e., prepare yourself for the upcoming Day of Atonement, Tishri 10), call a solemn assembly (Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1): Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, ASSEMBLE THE ELDERS (Mt. 24:31, Heb. 12:23), GATHER THE CHILDREN, AND THOSE THAT SUCK THE BREASTS (i.e., at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, Mark 13:27): let the bridegroom (Christ) go forth of his chamber, and the bride (Bride of Christ) out of her closet (chuppah, wedding canopy). Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people. Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people...I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things."

All that takes place on the last day of the 2300, which is the Day of the Lord that begins the Millennium.

If the last day of the 2300 is the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5771 (Sept. 9, 2010), the first day of the 2300 will be May 23, 2004 (Sivan 3, 5764). Maybe the first Rapture will take place May 23, 2004 and the last Rapture on Sept. 9, 2010. We should know soon.

The FIRST TRUMPET of the Bible sounded on Sivan 3. The Israelites arrived at Mt. Sinai on Sivan 1. Ex. 19:1 says, "In the third month (chodesh, new moon, i.e., Sivan 1)...the same day came they into the wilderness of Sinai." In verses 10 and 11, the Lord instructed Moses, "Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day (Sivan 1) and to morrow (Sivan 2), and let them wash their clothes (i.e., repent and confess their sins), And BE READY against the THIRD DAY (Sivan 3): FOR THE THIRD DAY THE LORD WILL COME DOWN." Verse 19 says, "And when the VOICE OF THE TRUMPET sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice. And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the toop of the mount: and the LORD CALLED MOSES UP". I think that is the type of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Continuing, Ex. 19:21 says, "And the LORD said unto Moses, GO DOWN, charge the people". This sounds like when Moses and Elijah go down to prophesy as God's two witnesses for the first 1260 days of the 2300-day Tribulation.

Rev. 11:1-3 says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and measure the temple of God (the elect in Heaven can be numbered), and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple (i.e., left on Earth) leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses (Moses and Elijah), and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."

Moses and Elijah come down as we go up on the first day of the 2300-day Tribulation. They come down at the first trump, and we go up at the first trump. I hope it will sound May 23, 2004.

> > We consider the utterance of the Lord Jesus Christ in Matthew 24:29-30 to be basic and fundamental to a clear understanding of the Lord’s Coming; upon this foundation similar teaching by Paul and others is firmly placed.

What trips Robert Isherwood up is the fact that there is no Rapture in these verses. Yet the Lord's elect are already in Heaven and are gathered from one end of Heaven to the other. They got there in the Pre-Trib Rapture Paul told us about in I Thess. 4:13-18. It had to take place before the 1040-day Great Tribulation started in Mt. 24:15 (1260 + 1040 = 2300 days).

> > This has presented a difficulty to brethren of the pre-tribulation school and to overcome this some have resorted to the unscriptural expedient of relegating the words of the Lord Jesus in Matthew 28:19-20, to a future day to be fulfilled by “Jewish believers” after the rapture of the Church.

That makes no sense to me. "Go ye ('eleven disciples,' v. 16) therefore, and teach all nations" applied to the eleven disciples.

> > “the secret rapture of the Church”. Such teaching is however a reversal of divine order when we consider that the Lord Himself said His Coming would be “immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days”, Matthew 24:29-30.

Robert Isherwood is confusing Christ's coming in the air with his Second Advent, when his feet will touch ground on Mount Olivet (Zech. 14:4).

I Thess. 4:16,17 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR".

Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Do you pray always to be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass? It is a direct command.

> > May the Lord enable us to preserve a balance in our study and teaching of the Word of God, so that we shall not be guilty of wresting the scriptures and reversing orders which are divine. Amen. Agape

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