Pro and Con 1141

Posted 8-1-04

Detailed but interesting, lots of math and astronomy

The Great Pyramid Coffer Puzzle, by Keith P. Johnson
Cont'd: Star Hopping in the Great Pyramid
Cont'd: The Niche: a Puzzle of Space and Time
Cont'd: Star Shafts in the Great Pyramid

Spirit finds its pot of haematite (on Mars)


My comment

It sure looks like it splatted down from space. Maybe it came from the breakup of Satan's planet Rahab.

Incoming email, Re: Pyramid

Hey, thanks so much for the info on the Great Pyramid; many people have believed that some of the knowledge represented there applied to Christianity in some way or another, and the way it happened was through Joseph and especially Moses, who had been trained as an Egyptian high priest and brought back much of that knowledge to the Israelites, where it came down through the generations as part of Essene teachings. However it happened, by taking a look at it you stand to bring more people to the truth by revealing the truth of it all. Agape

My reply

Thank you. If someone had told me last year that I would get interested in the Great Pyramid, I wouldn't have believed it. I had avoided it for a long time.

However, when I looked at that diagram of the King and Queen's Chambers and it popped into my head that the former represented Heaven and the latter the Earth, I had to research the subject. It didn't take long to find out that it would have been impossible for man to have constructed it unless God gave them the instructions.

When man tried to copy it, he fell short. None have been constructed to match the perfection of the Great Pyramid. Even today, we can't figure out for sure how those large stones were quarried, transported and lifted into place. Even the placement at Giza was critical. Only God could have known about the flat-topped underground granite mountain that could take that kind of weight. He prepared that ahead of time.

There are so many things recorded in the pyramid that only God could have known, it boggles the mind. Who would have even thought of the stepped foundation cut in the bedrock to build upon, the corner ball and sockets, each on a different level, etc.? It was built to withstand the passage of time, earthquakes and even Noah's Flood. The sea-salt encrustation inside was about half-an-inch thick. The Great Pyramid was built before the Great Flood.

The pyramid is like a time capsule to show us what kind of knowledge besides the Zodiac that God gave Adam, Seth and Enoch. They were far more advanced than many think, because they had the best teacher possible, God himself. Agape

RE: Tim and the RAPTURE" from 5 Doves site

Mecha (10 Aug 2004)

From Tim:
Recently I came across a post-trib site that claims a pre-trib rapture is not possible. While I disagree on many points in an email, these questions were posed to me. My original email to the Matt 24 question is at the bottom; however, I wondered if you have an answer to these questions he posed:
You find a separation between the Resurrection at the Second Coming and the Rapture, some time before that?
The gathering in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and the gathering in Matthew 24:30-31 seems to me to be very similar in description.

Jesus is in the clouds of the sky
At a trumpet call
Gathering of believers
Dead - heaven
Living - earth

How do you know one is different from the other? Couldn't they be the same event?

How do you know the saints have been raptured before the Second Coming? Is there anywhere in Scripture that states that?
From: Mesha
Hi Tim, I read your post

Actually 1 Thess doesn't match Matthew 24 good at all when you take into account Revelation 19 which is the Return of Jesus.

The truth is, Matthew 24, Revelation 19 and Ezekiel 39 all tell the same story. It is striking how similar they are in terms of His Return and the "gathering of the elect."

Revelation was for Christian believers and that is why you do not see any gathering. Matthew 24 was to Jewish believers who knew the term "elect" to mean them from Isaiah were it is said - "Israel My Elect"

To further emphasize this we have Ezekiel 39 where the angels go out and gather "ALL OF ISRAEL" from the nations back to the Land. This happens AFTER the Messiah comes and destroys the armies gathered against Jerusalem.

With the dead bodies comes a shout from the Arch Angel to the birds of the air (both in Ezekiel and Revelation) to come to the feast that the Lord has provided them. In Matthew 24 we get an odd comment - Where the carcass is you shall find the eagles gathered together.

The three sections are sooo similar that it can hardly be a coincidence. But rather God telling us what it is - Him calling all of Israel back and restoring them.

In Jeremiah we get the coming of the Mesiah first and then the House of Israel shall be with the House of Judah and they will say nothing of the ark of the covenant nor will they remember it. Because the Lord will be with them and reign in Jerusalem. I am paraphrasing because I do not have my bible in front of me.

But none the less. The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 is none other than the promise of the restoration of Israel fully being completed as prophesied in Ezekiel 39. And is not as some call the Post Trib rapture. God Bless. Mecha

My reply

Hi: I'd like to add my opinion to this discussion.

> > Tim: The gathering in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and the gathering in Matthew 24:30-31 seems to me to be very similar in description.

They are not the same, however. In 1 Thess. 4:16, the first "trump of God" sounds. That is the Pre-Trib Rapture. In I Cor. 15:51,52, we read of the "last trump" of God, the 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Mt. 24:31 is about the Bride group that was caught up to Heaven before the Tribulation. Re the Day of God's Wrath, when the sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky, it says, "And he shall send his ANGELS with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

Mt. 24:31 doesn't mention anyone getting gathered from the Earth. The Bride group is already in Heaven. They arrived in Heaven before the Tribulation began. On the Day of God's Wrath, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8 and 10 hit at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5), the Bride is gathered to the "general HEAVEN" (Heb. 12:23).

Why is the Bride group in Heaven called to the general assembly on the Day of God's Wrath? In Heaven, this is Christ's coronation day, the day of the Marriage of the Lamb, the day all saints get their rewards.

However, the Tribulation saints are still on Earth. They must be called to the general assembly in Heaven too. Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (those that were caught up at the beginning of the Tribulation).

Rev. 11:17,18 says, "We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast REIGNED. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

The Day of God's Wrath is not the Day of the Second Advent. There are 7 Jewish months between the two. The worldwide earthquake of Eze. 38:18-20 happens on the Day of God's Wrath. That's when his fury comes up in his face. For 7 months afterward, the Jews bury the dead in Israel to cleanse the land so Christ can return in glory. Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be GLORIFIED, saith the Lord GOD." Christ will return in glory at the Second Advent. It will be in a Jewish Leap Year, when the 13th month is added. That's the only time that there can be 7 months between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1. I think the year will be 5771 (2010/2011).

I believe the Day of God's Wrath will be on Tishri 1, the first day of the former rain. The Second Advent will be on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the latter rain. Hos. 6:3 says, " the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

There is no other catching up of saints after the Day of the Judgment Seat of Christ. All rewards are handed out to saints, great or small, on that day, 7 months before the Second Advent.

> > Tim: You find a separation between the Resurrection at the Second Coming and the Rapture, some time before that?

What "Resurrection at the Second Coming "?

When all the saints follow Christ to Earth, the Pre-Trib saints will have been in Heaven 7 years, the Pre-Wrath saints 7 months, and the Pre-Wrath Rapture is the "LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:51,52). Rev. 19:14 says, "And the armies (plural) which were (past tense) IN HEAVEN followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Those of the "first resurrection" "shall reign with him (Christ) a thousand years" (Rev. 20:5.6). His 1000-year reign starts at the "general assembly" in Heaven on the Day of God's Wrath. That is the "LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:51,52) of the first resurrection. There is no other. After the Second Advent, the sheep and goats are judged. They are the living ones that survive God's Wrath on Earth. They are not resurrected.

Mt. 25:31-34 says, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory (on Earth): And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world." The millennial kingdom starts on Tishri 1. The Judgment of Christ takes place that day. The sheep and goats are judged 7 months later, at the Judgment of the Nations, after the Second Advent on Nisan 1

When the Satan-possessed False Prophet comes to "his end" (i.e., is deposed from office; Dan. 11:45), it will be the Day of God's Wrath. "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, EVERY ONE THAT SHALL BE FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:1,2).

The "LAST TRUMP" calls up the Tribulation saints. That is the end of the first resurrection. That door is closed 7 months before the Second Advent. I can't see a resurrection at the Second Advent.

> > Mesha: In Matthew 24 we get an odd comment - Where the carcass is you shall find the eagles gathered together.

Mt. 24:28 says, "For wheresoever the carcase (ptoma, body, i.e., Body of Christ) is (at the 'general assembly' in Heaven, Heb. 12:23), there will the EAGLES (Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

> > Mesha: The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24 is none other than the promise of the restoration of Israel fully being completed as prophesied in Ezekiel 39. And is not as some call the Post Trib rapture.

Isa. 40:31 says, "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." Only in Heaven could they "run, and not be weary." Mounting up with wings represents the Pre-Wrath Rapture that precedes the Second Advent by 7 months. Agape

Incoming email, Re: Interesting article on Saturn
Erratic 'superbolts' of lightning seen on Saturn, 6 Aug 04

"Superbolts" of lightning burst in erratic thunderstorms on Saturn, reveals new data from the Cassini spacecraft, challenging previous observations of static storms....

Internet chaos was caused by one boy

By Nic Fleming and Kate Connolly in Berlin, 4/8/04)

Sven Jaschan, 18, was still at school in Germany when he admitted writing and spreading the Sasser and Netsky "worms" and their variations, which caused vast irritation and damage....

My comment

I get viruses with every mail call. I have Norton, but some are not deleted by Norton. It just notifies me that they are still there. I have to deal with them.

Here is my defense. If Norton has not deleted the last e-mail listed, I send myself an e-mail and then click on Send and Receive. As soon as it has been sent, I click on Send and Receive again. It comes in and is listed last. I select it, then shift-click on an older safe e-mail before the new ones. I then click on Delete, go to the Delete folder and drag any good e-mails back to my Inbox. Then, I empty the deleted items and compress folders twice. So far, it has worked to keep my computer virus free.

For good measure today, I went to Their scan of my computer did not find any viruses. Norton's scan didn't find any. The FixSasser Tool DL from Norton didn't find Sasser on my computer. Thank you Lord.

The reply to a previous e-mail about Zeph. 2:1-5

Yes, I agree with the prophecy of Zephaniah regarding Gaza and Ashkelon becoming a desolation...all of this because "they" have repoached and magnified themselves AGAINST the people of the LORD of hosts. What a great coming prophecy! Amen.

Incoming email, Re: Bride of Christ

What about Rev. 21:1-10. These scriptures say that the New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ.
Ephesians 4:11-16 say that the church is the body of Christ and Jesus is the head, which makes us part of the bridegroom, not the bride.

I have always believed as you are teaching and most others, but I think this thinking has just been too easily accepted, when in fact is incorrect. If I am incorrect, please explain. I am learning. God Bless

My reply

> > What about Rev. 21:1-10. These scriptures say that the New Jerusalem is the Bride of Christ.

A city cannot literally be the Bride of Christ. It is symbolic. New Jerusalem is where the Bride resides. On the 12 gates are "the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel" (Rev. 21:12). The wall has 12 "foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb" (21:14). These are the 24 elders of Rev. 4:4. They are the Bride's Representatives before the throne of God. The Bride that the 24 elders represent in the heavenly Sanhedrin after the Pre-Trib Rapture sing the "new song" to Christ. Rev. 5:9 says, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9).

Here we can see that the Bride in Heaven is a group of saints that have been caught up out of every nation on Earth. Where the 24 elders are, this group of saints are.

These Bride saints are spoken of in Rev. 3:12. It says, "Him that overcometh (the Bride saint) will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is NEW JERUSALEM, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." In Rev. 21, the Bride saints are in the heavenly city, New Jerusalem.

Jesus called himself "the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star" in Rev. 22:16. He is not a literal morning star, or he couldn't be the offspring of David. However, his throne is on a literal morning star. I think it is Saturn. Likewise, the Bride is not a literal pillar in the temple, or a literal city, but the Bride is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and has a home in the heavenly New Jerusalem.

Look for symbolic language, the words "like" and "as." They are beacons to show us things that are symbolic. Rev. 21:2 says, "I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepare AS a bride adorned for her husband." New Jerusalem is decorated beautifully, AS a bride would dress for her wedding.

> > Ephesians 4:11-16 say that the church is the body of Christ and Jesus is the head, which makes us part of the bridegroom, not the bride.

The saints are the Temple of the Holy Spirit, the Body of Christ, wise virgins and the Bride of Christ. In II Cor. 11:2, Paul said, "I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you AS a chaste virgin to Christ." Here, the "AS" is necessary, because both men and women are called wise virgins and the Bride of Christ. The 144,000 Israelites are added to the Bride group at the second Rapture. They too "are virgins" (Rev. 14:4). Agape

Her reply

Thank you so much for your reply. I certainly will study the scriptures you cited here - they surely give me a lot to consider. We are to study to show ourselves approved and that is what I am trying to do. God Bless

Incoming email, Re: questions

I so much look forward to your posts, and read the old ones too!

I'm having a hard time with the Dec. l7, 2004 date. The reason is that all through the spring Hebrew feast season, I researched carefully the fulfillment of feasts of the Lord (set times). My watch included the May Pentecost date, and of course was disappointed in that. Now have turned my attention back to the fall feasts (where I was before the spring feasts distracted me).

It suddenly occurred to me in May-June, that WHY SHOULD ONE OF THE LORD'S FEASTS BE FULFILLED IN CHRIST TWICE?

There is so much relevant to the Lord's return in the coming Rosh Hashana/feast of trumpets (September l5-l6). The relevances of this feast include the use of trumpets (awakening blast), and the season of repentance of 30 days leading up to the 1st of Tishrei.

Now, in reading carefully, the admonitions to the seven churches in Revelation, a rapture immediately following is implied. (a voice as it were a trumpet....).

It hit me the other day.......THE CHURCHES THAT CHRIST FOUND LACKING WERE EACH TOLD TO REPENT!. One is told "I come quickly".

The Church of Laodicea is told to "zealously" repent ! Or be rebuked and chastened.

It struck me that what is being said for those with "ears to hear what the angel says", is that the churches had better REPENT. This season is when John the Baptist was preaching "repent - the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.....".

The Jews spend 30 days repenting before the feast of trumpets. So that they can be written in the book of the righteous. The following 10 days are "the days of awe", or judgment. Take out the 2 days of Rosh Hashana, and the one day of Yom Kippur, and you have the intervening seven days (years) of judgment.

Marilyn - I wonder if you could apply your excellent way of counting days, and years, and see what happens if the Lord might return on Rosh Hashana.

Look forward to hearing from you. Agape

My reply

I think the second Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, will take place on the Feast of Trumpets that is also the Day of God's Wrath. Rev. 6 ends with "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Rev. 7 describes the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints. Verse 14 says, These are they which came out of (ek) great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." After this, in Rev. 8, we find the 7 trumpet judgments beginning. As the first trumpet sounds, "hail and fire mingled with blood...were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up" (Rev. 8:7).

> > The relevances of this feast include the use of trumpets (awakening blast), and the season of repentance of 30 days leading up to the 1st of Tishrei.

The 7 judgment trumpets are sounded by angels, not God. The "awakening blast" is when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8 and 10 impact Earth on the Day of God's Wrath. That is when Israel will sound an alarm on the silver trumpets, because she is being attacked by Gog's army.

The voice like a trumpet is Christ's voice at the Raptures. The first is "the trump of God" in I Thess. 4:16,17. The second is "the last trump" in I Cor. 15:51,52. It takes place on the Day of God's Wrath, but before noon, when the asteroids hit (Zech. 2:4,5).

The type is in Nu. 10:1-7. It says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS OF SILVER; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both, i.e., at the last Rapture), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee (i.e., at 'the general assembly' in heaven of Heb. 12:23) at the DOOR (as in Rev. 3:8) of the tabernacle of THE CONGREGATION. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (i.e., the 24 elders of Rev. 4:4, the 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles), shall gather themselves unto thee. When ye blow an alarm, then the camps that lie on the east parts shall go forward. When ye blow an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their journey: they shall blow an alarm for their journeys. But WHEN THE CONGREGATION IS TO BE GATHERED TOGETHER, YE SHALL BLOW, BUT YE SHALL NOT SOUND AN ALARM."

The general assembly in Heaven is on a feast day. I think it will be on the Feast of Trumpets. Heb. 12:22-25 says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY (panegurei, festal assembly, Thayer) and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT (on this, the day of the 2nd Rapture), And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape (i.e., not be raptured), if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven". He speaks from Heaven in Rev. 4:1, saying, "Come up hither."

Both trumpets sound on the Day of God's Wrath. The Bride saints are gathered from one end of Heaven to the other. The Tribulation saints are gathered from one end of the Earth to the other. Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."

At first, I thought that the Day of God's Wrath would be Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Since Eze. 39:12,13 showed that there would be 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent, 5768 looked like a good fit. It is a Jewish Leap Year with 13 months. I subtracted the 2300 days of Daniel 8:13,14 and got Pentecost, 2001 by using inclusive reckoning. Time has shown me that neither the Rapture nor the beginning of the Tribulation took place on that date.

I went to the next Jewish Leap Year, 5771. Tishri 1 will be Sept. 9, 2010. Nisan 1, Second Advent, will be 7 months later, on April 5, 2011. I subtracted 2300 days from Tishri 1, not using inclusive reckoning. That date passed May 23, 2004. World events being what they are, I couldn't picture the Rapture being delayed to still another Leap Year, so I took another look at the 2300 days in Daniel 8.

Dan. 8:10-14 says, "out of one of them (the 4 horns, i.e., the 4 kingdoms Alexander's was divided into when he died) came forth A LITTLE HORN (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it (the tail of the great red dragon of Rev. 12, i.e., Satan) waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them (this casting out of the fallen angels takes place Mid-Trib, Rev. 12:4). Yea, he (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (i.e., first half of the Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (during the Great Tribulation) And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED."

The "days" are literally evenings and mornings in the Hebrew. These 2300 days apply to the end times. Verse 26 says, "And the vision of THE EVENING AND THE MORNING which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

Eze. 45:18 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the FIRST MONTH, in the FIRST DAY of the month (Nisan 1, Second Advent), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY. This has to be Nisan 1 instead of Tishri 1, for verse 21 says, "In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover." The Passover is Nisan 14.

Both Advents are on the first of the first month, Tishri 1 the first time, and Nisan 1 the second time. Hosea 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (Nisan 1) and former rain (Tishri 1) unto the earth."

I previously counted back 2300 days from Tishri 1, the Day of God's Wrath, when I should have counted back from the following Nisan 1. It makes 7 months difference. I figured the sanctuary would be cleansed when the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hit the Mediterranean Sea, but that isn't what Scripture indicates. The sanctuary will be cleansed properly, by sacrificing "a young bullock without blemish."

Therefore, I counted back 2300 days from the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5771 (April 5, 2011). Without using inclusive reckoning, I got Dec. 17, 2004. I was shocked to find out that the Roman Saturnalia started on Dec. 17, but Satan might have tried to obscure that date by superimposing on it a pagan festival.

In Rev. 22:16, Jesus said, "I am the root (YHWH) and the offspring of David (YAHshua), and the bright and morning star", meaning that his throne is on a morning star. Saturn will be a morning star in Gemini, the sign of the Rapture. The Bride and Bridegroom sit together in heavenly places in Gemini. Eph. 2:6 says that God "hath raised us up (i.e., raptured us) together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus." That will become reality at the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Right now, I can't think of any other way to figure the date of the first Rapture. Time has shown us what won't fit. Jesus is called "the Sun of righteousness" in Mal. 4:2. Dec. 17 is close to the Winter Solstice, about Dec. 21, when the literal Sun starts its climb in the sky. The 2300 days seems to be the only thing that tells us how long the shortened Tribulation will be.

If the Rapture was to take place some time before the Tribulation begins, the fall feasts might fit. However, thunder is mentioned only at the beginning of the Tribulation and at the Second Rapture. The First Rapture probably takes place as the Tribulation begins. The Second Rapture takes place as the Day of God's Wrath begins.

Rev. 6:1 says, "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of THUNDER, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see."
Rev. 14:2 says, "And I heard a VOICE (Christ's) FROM HEAVEN, as the voice of many waters, and AS THE VOICE OF A GREAT THUNDER: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps." When the Lord descends from heaven with a shout (I Thess. 4:16), it may sound like thunder.

Job 40:9 says, "Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou THUNDER WITH A VOICE LIKE HIM?" At Mt. Sinai, we read about "thunders" and "the voice of the trumpet" (Ex. 19:16). That was when the LORD came down on the top of the mount. Agape

Incoming email, Re: THE ARK OF NOAH

hi I am ---- from sweden.This is free bible archaeology discoveries...

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My reply

Thanks. I'm skeptical of Ron Wyatt's discoveries, but I do think Noah's Ark is on the mountains of Ararat. Agape

Archeologists claim Essenes never wrote Dead Sea Scrolls

By Amiram Barkat 30/07/2004

...Two Israeli archaeologists, Yuval Peleg and Itzhak Magen, have recently completed 10 seasons of excavations at Qumran, sponsored by the Civil Administration of Judea and Samaria. These are the most extensive digs since those conducted by Roland de Vaux half a century earlier. Among the finds were numerous pieces of jewelry, imported glass and expensive stone cosmetics containers.

"It's impossible to say that the people who lived at Qumran were poor," said Peleg....

In 1995, Professor Norman Golb of the University of Chicago caused an academic earthquake when he accused those in charge of Dead Sea Scroll research of concealing information from the public. Golb argued that the scrolls came originally from various libraries in Jerusalem, and were brought to Qumran and hidden in the surrounding caves to ensure their survival during the Great Revolt of the Jews against the Romans, which took place between 66 and 73 CE. Golb based his theory on the fact that the scrolls were written by more than 500 different hands. He and other scholars noted that some of the scrolls were particular to various sects active in Jewish society at the time, some of which were rivals of the Essenes. They charged that this fact had been concealed by scroll scholars....

But among the supporters of the traditional theory, there are those who remain unmoved. Dr. Maen Broshi, former chief curator of the Shrine of the Book and the one who coined the description of Qumran as "the oldest monastery in the Western world," said that he does not believe the reports of finds of jewelry and cosmetics vessels at Qumran. "If these items were found, they are not from the site itself, but rather belonged to the Roman garrison stationed there after its destruction," he said. According to Broshi, "even today, 98 or 99 percent of scholars still believe that Qumran was an Essene monastery."...

Scholars view the Essenes as close to the worldview of Jesus and the early Christians, especially because of their choice of poverty as a lifestyle....

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